Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[Koo82]

You seems to know a lot. Yet you are a newbie with only 2 post. I think I can guess what's your previous log-in name.

It matters to you I only have 2 posts? I came across this forum recently because the Nation web board just disappeared. I'm mostly a lurker here. I'm Thai. That means I have more access to several Thai sources more than you foreigners here.

good post sireenat

the reply to you is a standard thaivisa repost when an argument is being lost. facts are not allowed to cloud the issue here. however that doesnt mean i agree with you

This is the standard here when you don't agree with them:

- If you have a few posts, you're a loser for being a newbie.

- If you say you're foreigner, they question how you can know about Thai politics and how you can communicate with Thais when posting about them.

- If you say you're Thai, they say you're a troll.

I don't know if I'm free from my "troll" status or not yet . I have more than 1,000 posts. I'm no longer a newbie

[h90]

In many ways it doesnt matter what we mostly foreigners argue on here. It looks like with the rejection of talks things are coming to a head that could be very nasty and the Thai people will have some choices to make. Thai politcs often has unpredictable endings so anything could actually happen. Thuis does though seem to be heading towards a train wreck but of what kind we dont know yet.

If any violence ensues, it will be because of the reds instigation, and any following or loyalty they enjoy will quickly evaporate.

the military are itching for any excuse for a brutal crackdown in order to stop this peoples movement. they just need justification in the public and international eye.

wouldnt suprise me if they plant a few violent instigators in the reds, initiate violent confrontation, deliberately escalate it, and provoke a brutal response that shuts down the protesters or seriously damages them., and then place the blame on the reds.

No the reds need a brutal crackdown. The military doesn't has any problem if there are 2-25K people stay there every day. there is almost no international attention, there isn't much national attention as well.

The reds can not achieve anything, if government isn't doing some major mistakes.

[h90]

They have all gone home. Very few are at GH now.

1000 people?

[Pierrot]

In many ways it doesnt matter what we mostly foreigners argue on here. It looks like with the rejection of talks things are coming to a head that could be very nasty and the Thai people will have some choices to make. Thai politcs often has unpredictable endings so anything could actually happen. Thuis does though seem to be heading towards a train wreck but of what kind we dont know yet.

If any violence ensues, it will be because of the reds instigation, and any following or loyalty they enjoy will quickly evaporate.

the military are itching for any excuse for a brutal crackdown in order to stop this peoples movement. they just need justification in the public and international eye.

wouldnt suprise me if they plant a few violent instigators in the reds, initiate violent confrontation, deliberately escalate it, and provoke a brutal response that shuts down the protesters or seriously damages them., and then place the blame on the reds.

No the reds need a brutal crackdown. The military doesn't has any problem if there are 2-25K people stay there every day. there is almost no international attention, there isn't much national attention as well.

The reds can not achieve anything, if government isn't doing some major mistakes.

Everybody talks about the military bu it seems they forget there is an other strong force in Thailand : the Police.

The Police suffered a massive lost of face during PAD protest, never underestimate face in Thailand

[kurtgruen]

They have all gone home. Very few are at GH now.

1000 people?

You are being generous, H90 ;-) Then again, if they all move to different locations around Government House 300 times and everytime Koo takes a picture, he will almost have his 300,000. (My tip is, afterwards paste them all together in photoshop and blur the image, so you can't tell, that it's the same people 300 times, then post it as proof for Thaksin's "Mass Movement" ;-)

Then, people, who are leaning towards Thaksin on TV, will get excited and maybe you can add another 5 people to the crowd on the 8th. (Just trying to help you guys out. I wouldn't want it to look to pathetic on the 8th. Sort of like somebody winning a soccer game 30 - 0, it's just not nice to do) ;-)

[jayboy]

If any violence ensues, it will be because of the reds instigation, and any following or loyalty they enjoy will quickly evaporate.

Impressive powers of premonition not only in the anticipation of violence but also in determination of responsibility.

Personally, I have no idea how this will pan out but the history of Thailand shows very clearly that in attempts to crush protests the offending and guilty side have ALWAYS been the army or police.Quite recently some Thaksinite supporters on this forum were foolishly arguing the yellow shirts were looking to provoke violence by the authorities.Now the deniers of widespread national sympathy for the red cause, such as the poster quoted, are arguing much the same way.

Somehow intellectual honesty has been lost along the way

Edited April 4, 2009 by jayboy

[sabaijai]

He calls for "a revolution by the people" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! From the safety of his self chosen exile....that is the stuff heros are made from.

Funny how the majority of the polls (ABAC, Dusit, etc.) indicate that no one wants a change in government now. I wonder which "people" Thaksin is referring to?

Wondering the same

[sriracha john]

Quite recently some Thaksinite supporters on this forum were foolishly arguing the yellow shirts were looking to provoke violence by the authorities.

That wasn't "quite recent" at all, but I do commend you for apparently going back and reading posts from months and months before you ever joined Thaivisa.

[Steve2UK]

Can't help but noticed that mc4, cybertossedsalad, kookoo, etc, still can't answer my question.... Come on, lets hear the "Truth Today"!

As a last aside, there is nothing childish about mc4. mc2 assumes that logic and natural law is involved (mass x speed of light squared). Since logic doesn't seem to be at play here, the name stands .

fine, then i will call you jbowchild1993

How about everyone - and I do mean everyone - just shows some maturity. Start by using members' forum names as given - and not whatever version of it suits abusive purposes. If it's really too much trouble to type all of "justanothercybertosser", I'm sure "JACT" will let us know who is meant. This is not only (what should be) common courtesy - it's also what the Forum Mods repeatedly instruct members to do. As a by-product, it might even attract more respect from readers for the actual message content of what people post.

The same applies to versions of public figures' names. The Mods really do have better things to do than repeatedly edit posts containing infantile variations that serve no worthwhile purpose whatever.

[jbowman1993]

Can't help but noticed that mc4, cybertossedsalad, kookoo, etc, still can't answer my question.... Come on, lets hear the "Truth Today"!

As a last aside, there is nothing childish about mc4. mc2 assumes that logic and natural law is involved (mass x speed of light squared). Since logic doesn't seem to be at play here, the name stands .

fine, then i will call you jbowchild1993

How about everyone - and I do mean everyone - just shows some maturity. Start by using members' forum names as given - and not whatever version of it suits abusive purposes. If it's really too much trouble to type all of "justanothercybertosser", I'm sure "JACT" will let us know who is meant. This is not only (what should be) common courtesy - it's also what the Forum Mods repeatedly instruct members to do. As a by-product, it might even attract more respect from readers for the actual message content of what people post.

The same applies to versions of public figures' names. The Mods really do have better things to do than repeatedly edit posts containing infantile variations that serve no worthwhile purpose whatever.

What if I'm just a bad speller?

[jbowman1993]

He calls for "a revolution by the people" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! From the safety of his self chosen exile....that is the stuff heros are made from.

Funny how the majority of the polls (ABAC, Dusit, etc.) indicate that no one wants a change in government now. I wonder which "people" Thaksin is referring to?

Wondering the same

When the polls and people don't think what you want them to think - just make sh#t up. Thats been the red shirt/PPP/TRT/PTP/TVP/DMF method for years.

[Samuian]

He calls for "a revolution by the people" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! From the safety of his self chosen exile....that is the stuff heros are made from.

Funny how the majority of the polls (ABAC, Dusit, etc.) indicate that no one wants a change in government now. I wonder which "people" Thaksin is referring to?

Wondering the same

When the polls and people don't think what you want them to think - just make sh#t up. Thats been the red shirt/PPP/TRT/PTP/TVP/DMF method for years.

But then this "Method" seems to have a Method, but they ain't got a Method to cash in on that very Method!

[Lite Beer]

Several Posts containing juvenile name calling have been deleted. Please keep things civil.

Thank You.

[jbowman1993]

Couldn't resist this little blurb about Thaksin, suppressing free speech in 2004 - from the website - The Village Idiot

http://www.lidiotduvillage.com/article.php3?id_article=2981

[JacknDanny]

Can't help but noticed that mc4, cybertossedsalad, kookoo, etc, still can't answer my question.... Come on, lets hear the "Truth Today"!

As a last aside, there is nothing childish about mc4. mc2 assumes that logic and natural law is involved (mass x speed of light squared). Since logic doesn't seem to be at play here, the name stands .

fine, then i will call you jbowchild1993

How about everyone - and I do mean everyone - just shows some maturity. Start by using members' forum names as given - and not whatever version of it suits abusive purposes. If it's really too much trouble to type all of "justanothercybertosser", I'm sure "JACT" will let us know who is meant. This is not only (what should be) common courtesy - it's also what the Forum Mods repeatedly instruct members to do. As a by-product, it might even attract more respect from readers for the actual message content of what people post.

The same applies to versions of public figures' names. The Mods really do have better things to do than repeatedly edit posts containing infantile variations that serve no worthwhile purpose whatever.

Or even better, why doesnt justanothercybertosser change his name back to a more mature, though possibly forgetable name?

[Steve2UK]

How about everyone - and I do mean everyone - just shows some maturity. Start by using members' forum names as given - and not whatever version of it suits abusive purposes. If it's really too much trouble to type all of "justanothercybertosser", I'm sure "JACT" will let us know who is meant. This is not only (what should be) common courtesy - it's also what the Forum Mods repeatedly instruct members to do. As a by-product, it might even attract more respect from readers for the actual message content of what people post.

The same applies to versions of public figures' names. The Mods really do have better things to do than repeatedly edit posts containing infantile variations that serve no worthwhile purpose whatever.

Or even better, why doesnt justanothercybertosser change his name back to a more mature, though possibly forgetable name?

I daresay because he's happy with it as is - as you presumably are with your "mature" name (cockney rhyming slang or not ). His and your choice. Live with it.

[sriracha john]

Privy councillor Pichitr Kullavanijaya...

...also said he had learned from former American Ambassador Ralph Boyce that Thaksin had a bank account on the Cayman Islands, which is known as a major haven for money laundering. He called on authorities to look into the matter.

"He was in office for five to six years and he had as much as 100 Billion Baht in deposits. Just think about it," Pichitr said.

Thaksin: I am not in Cambodia, no money in Caymans

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra dismissed the rumors that he is staying in Cambodia and has a deposit of 100 Billion Baht in the Cayman Islands.

During his video-link to the red-clad supporters last night (April 5th), the former premier said he was not in Cambodia as many parties suspected. Thaksin told his supporters that he would cancel his video-link address for one day (April 6th) since he would be on his trip.

The former premier said he did not have the 100 Billion Baht deposit in the Cayman Islands as alleged and he would give that money to anyone who could find evidence for the deposit.

- ThaiNews / 2009-04-06

[sriracha john]

Pichitr undaunted by Thaksin's threat

Privy Councillor Pichitr Kullavanijaya has repeated his allegation that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra laundered huge amounts of money through the Cayman Islands, and says he is not worried by the fugitive politician's threat of a defamation suit.

Gen Pichitr insisted on Monday that all the accusations he made against Thaksin were the truth -- including laundering 100 Billion Baht of unusual wealth and making improper comments relating to the monarchy.

The privy councillor said he would invite US Ambassador Ralph Boyce, who provided him with the information, to reveal the details about Thaksin's money in the Cayman Islands

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-thaksin-threat

[animatic]

But he DIDN'T say 100 billion baht has NOT passed through his accounts in the Caymans did he?

I would guess changing billions to millions is more reasonable and plausible.

He only denied having that currently IN an account.

The guy was off shore more than on,

if what's KNOWN is an indication of the whole truth.

And considering his obvious sense of entitlement

to every last baht he can squeeze out of any corner.

No doubt the USA econo-investigators have a very nice idea of

what Thaksin salted away and then lost in the futures markets.

So if he was in Cambodia, anyone think he would ADMIT he was in Cambodia...?

Not I. That's likely an act of war from Cambodia to allow Thaksin

to foment insurection from their neighboring land.

If he was / is there he's not saying yes.

Too close to home and an army that hates his furry butt,

and is only a few hours march away.

Edited April 6, 2009 by animatic

[trogers]

But he DIDN'T say 100 billion baht has NOT passed through his accounts in the Caymans did he?

I would guess changing billions to millions is more reasonable and plausible.

He only denied having that currently IN an account.

I more inclined to believe its billions, and not millions. Remember the contracts issued for the new airport?

[animatic]

But he DIDN'T say 100 billion baht has NOT passed through his accounts in the Caymans did he?

I would guess changing billions to millions is more reasonable and plausible.

He only denied having that currently IN an account.

I more inclined to believe its billions, and not millions. Remember the contracts issued for the new airport?

Oh I wasn't meaning what I thought he took off with,

I only meant what he stashed in THIS ONE off shore place.

Not to many eggs in one basket to confuse the watchers and diffuse the risks.

[edwardmoulton]

You seems to know a lot. Yet you are a newbie with only 2 post. I think I can guess what's your previous log-in name.

It matters to you I only have 2 posts? I came across this forum recently because the Nation web board just disappeared. I'm mostly a lurker here. I'm Thai. That means I have more access to several Thai sources more than you foreigners here.

good post sireenat

the reply to you is a standard thaivisa repost when an argument is being lost. facts are not allowed to cloud the issue here. however that doesnt mean i agree with you

This is the standard here when you don't agree with them:

- If you have a few posts, you're a loser for being a newbie.

- If you say you're foreigner, they question how you can know about Thai politics and how you can communicate with Thais when posting about them.

- If you say you're Thai, they say you're a troll.

I don't know if I'm free from my "troll" status or not yet . I have more than 1,000 posts. I'm no longer a newbie

I have to agree. There is a special person who spends all their time on a forum and then feels superior to everyone else and any other opinion. There is the odd enlightened one here on BOTH SIDES but the majority just have the bitter twisted thing going on and re-hash the same old negative put-downs...

Even the PM seems worried about the rally on Wednesday so much so that he had to make a TV address tonight to call for calm and to reassure against civil war... To all those here who have claimed the protest will only be small, WILL YOU ALSO BE ABLE TO ADMIT HOW WRONG YOU ARE AND HOW BADLY YOU READ THE WAY THINGS ARE WHEN YOU SEE THE SCALE ON WEDNESDAY? Let's see if you have integrity in the same measure as your sarcasm and rudeness to others on here. I mention no names as that would be rude, you know who you are...

[WAERTH]

Hello Edward,

I know you didn't mean it that way ... but it almost reads as if you want violence tomorrow.

Anyway my personal opinion still stands. The protests will never even come close to 100.000 people. It will not become violent and after Wednesday the people will go home and the whole thing will fizzle away until someone starts stirring things up again.

Abhisit only held his speech because many people in his own party thought that he was to relaxed and to confident nothing will happen on Wednesday. So as a compromise he held his speech.

Waerth

[animatic]

Why is there always someone who appears to WANT a debacle,

just to justify their philosophical beliefs?

[samgrowth]

Mark have been giving stupid excuses, for 2 weeks, that he is working outside the office, hence does not need to return to his office, AND NOT BECAUSE the Red are there. Let's see what excuses will have give today. Call in sick?

[sriracha john]

A day without a Thaksin lawsuit getting filed is like a day without sunshine...

Is the American Ambassador listed as a co-defendant?

Edited April 7, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Lawyer Vichit Plangsrisakul (left) files a complaint with police Monday on behalf of fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra against Privy Councillor Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya who he alleged of making defamatory remarks against his client.

The Nation

Edited April 7, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Thaksin sues Privy Councillor for defamation

A lawyer yesterday filed a police complaint on behalf of Thaksin Shinawatra, accusing a privy councillor of defamation.

Lawyer Vichit Plangsrisakul, who submitted the complaint, said Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya, an adviser to His Majesty the King, made defamatory remarks when he accused Thaksin of plotting to overthrow the monarchy and making 100 Billion Baht while serving as prime minister for six years.

During his interview with reporters at the Defence Ministry last week, Pichitr said he was informed by a former American Ambassador that Thaksin had deposited his money in Cayman Islands, which is known as a haven for money laundering.

The retired general said yesterday that he was not worried about the legal action by the fugitive ex-premier.

"I believe in what I said; they are all true," he added.

Pichitr said that he would invite Ralph Boyce, the former US Ambassador to Thailand who informed him about money laundering on Cayman Islands, to be his witness.

He also said he had learned that Thaksin spent his deposits in the Cayman Islands in his political campaign in Thailand.

- The Nation / 2009-04-07

[sheff_mick]

Mark have been giving stupid excuses, for 2 weeks, that he is working outside the office, hence does not need to return to his office, AND NOT BECAUSE the Red are there. Let's see what excuses will have give today. Call in sick?

The present P.M. " Mark " as you wish to call him, unlike the previous 3 pm.s is trying to keep peace, rather than incite further unrest and possible violent reactions,via an arrogant stance we are all familiar with

He rightly and wisely chooses to communicate via diplomacy and a low profile.

In doing so he is demonstrating genuine care for Thailand and it,s subjects as apposed to the phoney rantings of Thaksin

You will note also he does not misuse the media, especially the various dedicated channels on Thai News, and in doing so manipulate the situation and the reasons there of.

The only one sick and in urgent need to call in, as he is obviously in a serious mentally deficient state, is the nutter running the red show from exile.

Thank you

Edited April 7, 2009 by sheff_mick

[edwardmoulton]

Why is there always someone who appears to WANT a debacle,

just to justify their philosophical beliefs?

There is no mention at all of a debacle or a fight or anything else, just a strong show of support for a new era of democracy. Sure it won;t be perfect but it will be a positive step forward form the current situation of totally lack of transparency and power in the wrong places. We will see...

I am not very good at quoting from outside sources but this article has a rare integrity and sums it up pretty much and makes the point that this is not just about a group of ignorant thugs as the controlled press likes to portray them but actually lots of different people from different walks of life all unhappy about living in effectively an un-free state...

Red shirts more than just a bunch of Thaksin's supporters

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on April 7, 2009

"Fifty-fifty", was the response of a key member of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) when asked about the chances of his red-shirt movement overthrowing Abhisit Vejjajiva in the not-too-distant future.

The figure is as much a guesstimate as it is a description of the uncertain political situation in which Thailand finds itself at this juncture in political history - fifty-fifty. Anything is possible.

Tomorrow, DAAD paramount leader in exile, convicted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, hopes his followers will fight to restore "democracy" by showing their force in a sea of red. Those who show up tomorrow will include many more than passive Thaksin supporters and those organised by former Thai Rak Thai politicians from upcountry. It will be an unholy alliance of many groups wanting to tear down the old political order.

First are those opposing the September 2006 military coup which, incidentally, ousted Thaksin. Some of these people were never Thaksin fans. This writer knows of one female member, formerly very actively supporting the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). But the coup convinced her that the military and the aristocracy who pull the strings were the greater of the two evils and had to go. Those with long-enough memory will also recall that DAAD co-leader Weng Tojirakarn was more than once on the PAD stage ranting against Thaksin too.

Many young reds who opposed the coup felt military intervention should have been consigned to history, as they had only a faint memory of the 1991 coup that ousted then premier Chatichai Choonhavan. They have a contempt for military adventure in politics.

Group two are those who feel Thailand needs to move away from a semi-feudal system where politics is orchestrated behind the scenes. They also want to see the monarchy institution truly outside politics.

A group of netizens, calling itself FARED (First Aid Red) have volunteered at the Government House rally site to offer first aid despite the fact none was trained in medicine. However, they have hired a nurse or two to teach them.

Some educated red shirts want to see a much more limited monarchy institution, like those in Great Britain or Japan, and have vented their frustrations on the Internet. A string of arrests and jailings, such as that of Suwicha Thakor, who got a 10-year term last week for lese majeste and for breaking the computer crime Act, have made it clear there are people unhappy about the current arrangement. The crackdown and the counter-reaction continues as police are eyeing to arrest more. With the Internet coming under close surveillance, one resorted to spreading attacks on the monarchy by distributing leaflets and was reportedly arrested on Saturday in Khon Kaen. These people pose a challenge to the commonly accepted belief that all Thais revere the monarchy institution and they want change.

The PAD's New Politics, which proposed limited electoral rights, and their seizure of the airports, also provided a turning point for others who have joined the red-shirt movement.

Group three are fuelled by general insults handed down by a large section of the press describing the protesters as a hired lowly educated mob who don't know what voting and democracy is all about - only serving to make more working class red and angry. These people can be found riding the bus back home from rally sites late in the evening, hating the anti-Thaksin media as well as PAD's New Politics which they regard as insulting and elitist.

So this is a war between new money, represented by Thaksin and his associates, some die-hard leftists, a young middle class fed up with old politics, educated as well as lesser educated middle and working class versus the PAD - which claims to represent the monarchy and moral politics and is run by the few and supported by the military, the bureaucracy, old money and old elites.

Now that Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanond has been openly dragged into the feud through Thaksin's allegation that he's behind the coup, the battleground is even clearer.

The PAD's momentum surged when it attracted people from many walks whom Thaksin had made his enemy during his abusive and egocentric rule as prime minister. Now the red DAAD have attracted many diverse groups who feel upset about the old powers and are willing to use Thaksin, and let Thaksin use them, to achieve victory.

This unholy alliance is getting stronger by the day as more and more people feel emboldened by the sheer numbers challenging the old establishment. And it's definitely more than just about Thaksin or PAD, Sondhi Limthongkul or even Prem.