Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[jesimps]

Just checked with my online account and was charged just 15 baht yesterday, for using the "big yellow machine" just inside the main entrance of Tukcom Pattaya, at the rate of 54.985 to the pound. I drew 10,000 baht using my Nationwide visa/debit card. Whichever bank the yellow machine belongs to, I don't care as long as long as it's cheap and saves me queueing for ages at my local SCB.

[donx]

Just checked with my online account and was charged just 15 baht yesterday, for using the "big yellow machine" just inside the main entrance of Tukcom Pattaya, at the rate of 54.985 to the pound. I drew 10,000 baht using my Nationwide visa/debit card. Whichever bank the yellow machine belongs to, I don't care as long as long as it's cheap and saves me queueing for ages at my local SCB.

Do you see the 15 baht as a separate charge or do you see a withdrawal of 10,015 baht?

[jesimps]

Just checked with my online account and was charged just 15 baht yesterday, for using the "big yellow machine" just inside the main entrance of Tukcom Pattaya, at the rate of 54.985 to the pound. I drew 10,000 baht using my Nationwide visa/debit card. Whichever bank the yellow machine belongs to, I don't care as long as long as it's cheap and saves me queueing for ages at my local SCB.

Do you see the 15 baht as a separate charge or do you see a withdrawal of 10,015 baht?

No not separate, statement reads "Cash Bay/Com Building Pattaya CHOLBURI TH 10,015 THB at 54.985". Official rate was only 55 something so not too bad at all considering the low banking charge.

[jfchandler]

Here are the optimal exchange rates for the pound to the baht for those days...

2009-11-16 November 16, Monday 55.5288 THB

2009-11-17 November 17, Tuesday 55.7236 THB

2009-11-18 November 18, Wednesday 55.7549 THB

2009-11-19 November 19, Thursday 55.2107 THB

2009-11-20 November 20, Friday 54.7851 THB

Source: XRates.com

[BIGTOE3]

Just checked with my online account and was charged just 15 baht yesterday, for using the "big yellow machine" just inside the main entrance of Tukcom Pattaya, at the rate of 54.985 to the pound. I drew 10,000 baht using my Nationwide visa/debit card. Whichever bank the yellow machine belongs to, I don't care as long as long as it's cheap and saves me queueing for ages at my local SCB.

Do you see the 15 baht as a separate charge or do you see a withdrawal of 10,015 baht?

No not separate, statement reads "Cash Bay/Com Building Pattaya CHOLBURI TH 10,015 THB at 54.985". Official rate was only 55 something so not too bad at all considering the low banking charge.

I suspect if A Nationwide Visa card you will have had there newish charge of either 0.84% or 1.00% fee reducing your rate to below 55bt.

Retrieved my Nationwide Credit Card yesterday at the Aeon bank after their machine at Victory Monument swallowed it.

Took the opportunity to withdraw 15,000 from the ATM in Branch - Nationwide CIRUS CARD - can confirm No charge and the rate given 55.54bt

BT

[vagabond48]

Retrieved my Nationwide Credit Card yesterday at the Aeon bank after their machine at Victory Monument swallowed it.

Would you mind telling us what steps you took to get your card back.

Edited November 21, 2009 by vagabond48

[BIGTOE3]

Retrieved my Nationwide Credit Card yesterday at the Aeon bank after their machine at Victory Monument swallowed it.

Would you mind telling us what steps you took to get your card back.

Simply phoned the number on the Aeon transaction confirmation -

I advised them that the cash had been dispensed correctly but the ATM retained my card.

Advised them of the time, transaction number, location number of ATM, again on the slip.

My Thai GF phoned first to be advised that the card would be sent back to UK.

I phoned advised re the above and said I would not be going back to UK until Feb so sending card back not a great idea. The staff very good, passed me to English speaking supervisor.

Had to send ie fax a photo copy of my Passport and sign the photo copy.

Had to resign photo copy at branch.

I Hope this assists if it happens to somebody else - Don't just accept the first answer given - ask for Supervisor or higher as necessary.

Took over a week though.

BT

[vagabond48]

Thanks for the helpful info, bigtoe

[BIGTOE3]

Pleased to assist as that is how we all learn.

BT

[kosh]

Oki, a commission of 150 baht is not the end of the world.

So I went to SCB with my atm maestro but the maximum accepted for withdrawn was 20.000b.

Change of bank, BKK bank refused the maximum (this year they must be checking limits realtime…) but I’ve got 24.000+150 baht.

After some days on my bank account I saw :

Fees 2E

Commission fees 0,78E (new)

Commision exchange 4,92E (new)

Xrate 24/11=49,76

My rate 48,64 more or less

Rate for last Master card use 48,65…..

Now I know how the banks will survive next year......we pay.

[Langsuan Man]

I had the Aeon ATM at Carefour eat my card last Friday. It was my fault since I was busy counting my money instead of pulling my card out immediately after the "tone" started. I called the number on the ATM , which stated " If card not returned call.........". I just asked for an English speaking customer service rep who took my email address.

When I got home I just scanned my passport, visa page, and printed it out, signed the copy and sent it to Aeon Customer service as an attachment to an email.

They retrieved the card and forwarded it to the Aeon office at Tesco Lotus, Pattaya North where I picked it up today, Monday 30 Nov, so in my case it only took 3 days. Of course I had to bring my original passport and the copy to the office and they made a copy of my ATM card and I had to sign that

BTW, for those that keep track of exchange rates on Friday I received 33,000 THB, using my E*trade Visa branded ATM card and of course no 150 THB fee:

11/27/09 ATM AEON CREDIT SYS Location: CARREFOUR PATTAYA BANGKOK TH -998.49 USD (33.04 THB per USD)

[kosh]

BTW, for those that keep track of exchange rates on Friday I received 33,000 THB, using my E*trade Visa branded ATM card and of course no 150 THB fee:

11/27/09 ATM AEON CREDIT SYS Location: CARREFOUR PATTAYA BANGKOK TH -998.49 USD (33.04 THB per USD)

no Aeon atm on Samui isalnd, from what i know....

gee, the dollar is so low, thanks euro or i have to stay home....

[SurfRider]

.

"on Friday I received 33,000 THB, using my E*trade Visa...no 150 THB fee...-998.49 USD (33.04 THB per USD)"

Seems strange -- X-Rates for the 27th was 33.225 THB -- If you run the numbers the, 33.225 rate indicates that your USD Debit should have been $993.22

Can't help but wonder who got the US $5.26 overage that is reflected in your Debit?

This is the first time I've seen a discrepancy this large with an E-Trade Visa Debit Card. It's just possible that E-Trade has started discounting their exchange rate to offset the reimbursement of the 150 Baht Thai fee, which doesn't make any sense, since AEON isn't charging the fee.

We would need data on exchange rates at fee-charging ATMs to see what this discrepance is indicating.

.

Edited November 30, 2009 by SurfRider

[vagabond48]

.

"on Friday I received 33,000 THB, using my E*trade Visa...no 150 THB fee...-998.49 USD (33.04 THB per USD)"

Seems strange -- X-Rates for the 27th was 33.225 THB -- If you run the numbers the, 33.225 rate indicates that your USD Debit should have been $993.22

Can't help but wonder who got the US $5.26 overage that is reflected in your Debit?

This is the first time I've seen a discrepancy this large with an E-Trade Visa Debit Card. It's just possible that E-Trade has started discounting their exchange rate to offset the reimbursement of the 150 Baht Thai fee, which doesn't make any sense, since AEON isn't charging the fee.

We would need data on exchange rates at fee-charging ATMs to see what this discrepance is indicating.

.

I also withdrew some money Friday using my Bank of Internet DC and was rather disappointed with the 33.0497 which was 99.47% of the IER. The previous month I used the same card at AEON and got 100.04% of the IER.

This beckons a question, how is the IER determined. I have gotten as high as 100.16% (AEON) of IER and usually no less than 99.95% so I was surprised with the low 99.47%.

Is the dollar these days fluctuating that much during normal banking hours?

[SurfRider]

.

"This beckons a question, how is the IER determined...Is the dollar these days fluctuating that much during normal banking hours?"

I doubt that the US$ IER is varying that much over a 24 hour period, but anything is possible.

If this discounted exchange rate from E-Trade can be confirmed as a "normal" occurrence at both AEON and fee-charging ATMs, it might indicate that E-Trade finally woke up and realized that the highest fee-reimbursements that they have to cover anywhere in the world are coming from 99% of the ATMs in Thailand.

If that's the case, they might have initiated a blanket policy to discount their exchange rate for all Thailand transactions. It that proves to be true, E-Trade Debit Card holders should avoid AEON ATMs like the plague, since they're being hit for a hidden Thai ATM usury fee, but not being reimbursed for it.

An interesting unintended consequence of sending all that business back to fee-charging ATMs so the transactions are reimbursed.

.

Edited November 30, 2009 by SurfRider

[vagabond48]

As I wrote I used my Bank of Internet DC so the poorer exchange rate doesn't appear to be for etrade only.

[SurfRider]

.

"As I wrote I used my Bank of Internet DC so the poorer exchange rate doesn't appear to be for etrade only."

Sorry vagabond48, I missed that -- Obviously, that possibly changes the picture for the scenario that I suggested. ( unless Bank of Internet DC is in bed, so to speak, with E-trade.. )

Still, I can't recall seeing a discrepancy that large before, so it will be interesting if we can get some data on transactions over the next few days at various ATMs for comparison purposes.

I'll be doing a ET Visa-Debit transaction in about 6 days and will report the results.

.

[Colabamumbai]

According to the Thanchart website, The Thai Bankers Association has decided that cardholders of foreign banks will be charged 150 Baht for each withdrawal by debit or credit card, effective April 17th.

Not good news.

OUCH!! That's my main source of moving $$ to baht monthly. SCB has been charging baht 20 for several months now but I just bypass them for the others.

Guess I'll just have to do a larger personal $$ check deposit to my baht account at SCB now every couple of months to cover the ATM fees if they do, indeed, come into play.

Mac

Would having an account in a Thai bank with an ATM card alleviate this additional expense?

[jfchandler]

I think there's a bit too much unfounded speculating going on here... I've seen no evidence of any trend changes in the way my E*Trade card ATM withdrawals have been handled of late.

I doubt very much E*Trade has many any changes in the way they are processing their debit card transactions, in general or from Thailand specifically. As a regular card user for many months, I've seen the actual exchange rates I receive (and I do the calculation each and every time) bounce all around, sometimes actually better than the posted IER for that day, sometimes a bit less, usually within a 10th of a baht per dollar or so under.... I presume that is in fact due to fluctuations in the VISA network exchange rate thru the day...

Remember, the IER we see posted on XRates for any particular day is an average of the various IER rates in effect during that entire day, which certainly do change. But the rate we get on our debit card transactions is not pegged directly to the IER, as best as I understand it. The rate we get is set by the VISA network, assuming we're using a VISA logo card, and our bank (in this case E*Trade) isn't taking out any extra for themselves.

[jfchandler]

I've never looked at my E*Trade or similar card results in terms of percentages... But rather, in fractions of bahts...

For example, if the IER for a day was 33.3, I'd usually expect my resulting net exchange rate to be within .10 to .15 of a baht per dollar...ie 33.15 to 33.20... But sometimes as I've mentioned, my net rate either equals or slighltly exceeds the posted IER for particular days.... There's no pattern to how those variations run.

On rare occasions, the variation has exceeded those ranges on the negative side. But usually those have been one-off occurrences. They never get repeated on subsequent transactions, and the subsequent ones typically fall back into the normal ranges. Again, I assume, due to inter-day VISA rate fluctuations.

I also withdrew some money Friday using my Bank of Internet DC and was rather disappointed with the 33.0497 which was 99.47% of the IER. The previous month I used the same card at AEON and got 100.04% of the IER.

This beckons a question, how is the IER determined. I have gotten as high as 100.16% (AEON) of IER and usually no less than 99.95% so I was surprised with the low 99.47%.

Is the dollar these days fluctuating that much during normal banking hours?

[jfchandler]

Yes, XRates says their IER for that day was 33.225 as mentioned above. And the Bank of Thailand average IER for that day was 33.25, so you were plus/minus .20 of a baht per dollar below the average IERs for that day. That's certainly within the norms I've seen, maybe a bit lower than the usual, but not so far out of the norms that I've seen with cards like E*Trade and others similar.

I also withdrew some money Friday using my Bank of Internet DC and was rather disappointed with the 33.0497 which was 99.47% of the IER. The previous month I used the same card at AEON and got 100.04% of the IER.

[jfchandler]

It's pretty simply to figure...

If you use almost any foreign ATM card in an ATM machine belonging to any of the Thailand-based banks, you'll likely get hit with a 150 baht fee by that Thai bank for making an ATM cash withdrawal. (There are some rare reported exceptions to this, mainly relating to cards belonging to one UK bank when used at one Thai bank's ATMs).

If you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in that same bank's ATM machine, you'll likely avoid any fee. And if you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in an ATM belonging to a different Thailand-based bank, you'll probably pay some small fee like 20 or 25 baht or so. For the Thailand bank ATM cards, the fee policies vary from bank to bank, so the above comments are general notions that will change a bit bank to bank.

Pretty much the only known exception at present for avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee charged to non-Thailand ATM cards involves making withdrawals from AEON ATMs. AEON does business here as a credit card company with ATM machines. But it really is a Japan based company, not quite the same as the regular Thailand banks.

Would having an account in a Thai bank with an ATM card alleviate this additional expense?

[jesimps]

For information to anyone interested:

The yellow (Bank of Ayuttayah) machine in Tesco Lotus, next to Outlet, had no charge on a withdrawal of 10,000 baht using my Nationwide Visa/debit card on Saturday. This was confirmed by my online statement yesterday.

[Steve2UK]

It's pretty simply to figure...

If you use almost any foreign ATM card in an ATM machine belonging to any of the Thailand-based banks, you'll likely get hit with a 150 baht fee by that Thai bank for making an ATM cash withdrawal. (There are some rare reported exceptions to this, mainly relating to cards belonging to one UK bank when used at one Thai bank's ATMs).

If you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in that same bank's ATM machine, you'll likely avoid any fee. And if you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in an ATM belonging to a different Thailand-based bank, you'll probably pay some small fee like 20 or 25 baht or so. For the Thailand bank ATM cards, the fee policies vary from bank to bank, so the above comments are general notions that will change a bit bank to bank.

Pretty much the only known exception at present for avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee charged to non-Thailand ATM cards involves making withdrawals from AEON ATMs. AEON does business here as a credit card company with ATM machines. But it really is a Japan based company, not quite the same as the regular Thailand banks.

Would having an account in a Thai bank with an ATM card alleviate this additional expense?

With a to the tireless jfc, I would just add that using a Thai bank's ATM card in that same bank's ATM "x" distance from where your account was opened seems to also trigger a fee (about 20-ish baht) - "x" seems mainly to mean outside your home town and certainly in a different province. Still, it's nothing compared to 150 baht a pop - and likely doesn't arise that much unless you travel a lot.

Having originally identified Aeon as (then) one of the few and (now) effectively the only fee-free route(s) - and having used their ATMs for quite a while, I finally got fed up with it and reverted to using my UK bank (Nationwide) Debit card over-the-counter to occasionally pull a six-figure baht sum from my UK account and deposit it in my SCB and Kasikorn accounts. I now happily use one or other of the Thai cards in just the same way as I did previously with my UK cards - no fee at any stage and good/standard exchange rate. Kind of "no mess, no fuss"........

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

[kosh]

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

No banks in Samui (Lamai) accepted manual withdrawal...they just took me to the ATM outside......

BTW that unfortunately make sense, debit card are supposedly made only for ATM....at least my ATM Maestro as was confirmed by my bank before departure.....

And no Aeon in Samui....

[thaimate]

For information to anyone interested:

The yellow (Bank of Ayuttayah) machine in Tesco Lotus, next to Outlet, had no charge on a withdrawal of 10,000 baht using my Nationwide Visa/debit card on Saturday. This was confirmed by my online statement yesterday.

also the main branch on sukhumvit just after pattaya klang ,no charge. for the last week

[jfchandler]

Just for the record, there is a "Nationwide" Bank based in the U.S., which is part of a broader financial conglomerate by the name primary name. To the best of my knowledge, their customers don't get any breaks when using ATMs in Thailand.

But when it comes to avoiding the 150 baht foreign card ATM fee imposed by Thai banks, I believe I'm safe to assume it is the Nationwide Building Society in the U.K. that appears to have a VISA debit card that avoids the 150 baht charge when used in (yellow-color) Bank of Ayudhya ATMs (for what reason, no one seems to know or has ever been able to explain).

That's great if you're a U.K. bloke living in Thailand. Not so great if you're from some other part of Europe or someplace else around the world. I noticed on the U.K. Nationwide's web site, they advertise that they're the only High Street bank that doesn't charge their own foreign withdrawal commission when customers use their card abroad... though they say they do pass along VISA's foreign use fee.

Commission-free card use abroad

We are the only high-street provider that doesn't charge you commission if you use your card abroad* Some competitors charge up to 2.75% for buying goods or services and withdrawing cash abroad.

* We will pass on a Visa charge for foreign transactions outside of the Visa Europe Region.

Nicely enough, they have a pretty detailed web page explaining how they handle all variety of foreign transactions, including details of in which countries they do and do not pass along the 1% VISA fee (for transactions in Thailand, they DO pass along the 1% surcharge to their customers).

I know there's been some discussion here about the UK Nationwide's different kinds of cards. Since I'm not from the UK, I'm a bit hazy on the details. But it seems that they have both a straight ATM-type card and a VISA logo debit card.

Maybe some good UK bloke/Nationwide customer can clarify here for everyone which of the Nationwide cards and/or which of their accounts are producing fee-free ATM withdrawals at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs... That way, we'll have all the details clear (hopefully) in one place for everyone to see and understand.

For the non-UK folks, it seems best to 1) stick with fee-free AEON ATMs, and/or 2) get a home bank account that will reimburse you for the Thai banks' 150 baht fees, and/or 3) find a Thai bank that will do ATM card counter withdrawals for you, and a home bank that won't charge you extra when you do them.

[jfchandler]

On on the subject of yesterday's discussion of the exchange rates yielded by E*Trade VISA debit cards from the U.S....

I made a couple different withdrawals over the past few days, as follows:

Nov. 26 - rate received 33.18. average IER for that day 33.157

Nov. 29 - rate received 33.13. average IER for the next day (none posted for Sundays) 33.25

Both results are pretty much within the typical ranges I spoke of yesterday. One a bit above the IER average... One below it, but off by one day and done amid improving exchange rates.

Glad to see the U.S. $ back up into the 33.25 IER range (the average posted for Monday). It's time to pay the rent soon, and every little bit helps...

[chris1101]

Having originally identified Aeon as (then) one of the few and (now) effectively the only fee-free route(s) - and having used their ATMs for quite a while, I finally got fed up with it and reverted to using my UK bank (Nationwide) Debit card over-the-counter to occasionally pull a six-figure baht sum from my UK account and deposit it in my SCB and Kasikorn accounts.

I am shortly returning to Pattaya with the intention of purchasing a property for my Thai wife, of two years, and myself. I hold a Nationwide B/Society VISA debit card. I want to have available about 20,000 GB pounds. Is there any charge for using debit card for an over the counter transfer from Nationwide into a Thai bank account. Initially I had considered taking the money over in travellers cheques but I gather there is a restriction on the amount of GB pounds travellers cheques that can be taken out of the country.

I have looked at using a foreign exchange broker in the UK but their exchange rates seem less than those quoted in the forum. Today FOREX have quoted me 53baht to the pound.

Any advice will be most welcome. In case it has any bearing, I will be travelling on a type 'O' multiple entry visa.

Many thanks.

[jfchandler]

Chris, I will try to get you started in the right direction, and then maybe others with more direct experience in your situation can chime in...

Because the intended use of your funds transfer is to buy property, I believe the way you should move the money for that purpose is thru a SWIFT international funds transfer that you can initiate from your home bank, and have it sent onward, for a normally small fee, to the Thai bank or other destination required for your purchase.

The reason I advise this is Thailand has restrictions on the ability to move large amounts of foreign funds OUT of the country. And so, should you ever want to sell your property and take the proceeds back to your home country, as I understand it, you'll need to produce a clear, official record of how those funds came into the country, the amount involved, and that record specifying that the funds were to be used for that real estate transaction.

So in your instance, I believe, it's not just a matter of finding the method with the lowest fees or the best exchange rate. You also want a method that's going to protect your ability to retrieve your purchase funds at any point in the future, should you need to.

I'm an American, not a Brit. And I'm a renter here, not a property owner. But the advice I've recapped above is what I remember reading here on TV for people wanting to do real estate purchases in Thailand. As I mentioned above, I hope others who have actually done such transactions can either confirm my advice or correct me if I've gone astray... Good luck.

Edited December 1, 2009 by jfchandler