Guilty Until Proven Innocent

[theoldgit]

Having just watched, for the umpteenth time, the accused being paraded in front of the media with the evidence of the alleged crime piled up and the gloating police making sure they are in the photo shoot, I must ask the question, is there such thing as a fair trial in Thailand?

I don't suppose for one minute there is a jury system, but I wonder how to they try and ensure a trial is fair, or don't they bother.

[Ta22]

In my view there is no perfect system .

And look at the law system in your country .. which is badly tinted by the rich .. who can buy time and using all kinda under hand tatcic to win the law suit .

here in thailand is more basic ..

---

go read about the part about the death of common sence .

this is thailand . and so far the law work fine for many people . why do change it just to suit your mindset .

Law is made to protect and help people . but in recently years it had been used heavily by huge company as tool and mean to ding into the pocket of the poor .

-

anyway . i think there is no fair trail any where in the world .

and the idealogy of a perfect system is just navie

[beano2274]

I always hate it when all the Cameras are there, and the Big Police chiefs come out from under their shells.

But I believe that the accused has the right to privacy as well, if he or she is paraded in front of all the cameras, then his family start getting terrorized, but what would happen if at the end of the day he or

she was found to be innocent, who would say sorry to his or her family and also which Big Police chief would

hide under his shell.

Even an accused has rights of privacy.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It seems the quality of the legal system depends entirely on how much $$$ you have to spread around. You can make it drag on for years if you want to and have sufficient $.

[GuestHouse]

Don't get me started!

[Sabum]

In my view there is no perfect system .

And look at the law system in your country .. which is badly tinted by the rich .. who can buy time and using all kinda under hand tatcic to win the law suit .

here in thailand is more basic ..

---

go read about the part about the death of common sence .

this is thailand . and so far the law work fine for many people . why do change it just to suit your mindset .

Law is made to protect and help people . but in recently years it had been used heavily by huge company as tool and mean to ding into the pocket of the poor .

-

anyway . i think there is no fair trail any where in the world .

and the idealogy of a perfect system is just navie

I think your complete perspective on the Thai justice system is naive. if you are rich you are innocent, if you are poor or foreign and forgot to bribe then you are guilty, is this what you meant by "so far the law work fine for many people"?

[Pierrot]

Ask people in some French, English or American suburbs if justice is fairer in their home country than in Thailand, and they will probably say no.

Ask the same people if life is more violent in Thailand than in their home country, and again they will probably say no.

And regarding the guy who chose to live in Brazil because life in Thailand is too violent.... I saw more guns, more people chasing people with a gun in their hand, more people shot dead in one day in Brazil than in 15 years in Thailand, but what a great party !

If you can imagine on a racing track, maybe 10 trucks following each other a few hundreds meters apart. On each truck a great band. Around each truck a few hundreds people dancing and the all caravan moving slowly around the track at a few km/h. If you've never try that, you don't know the meaning of "party". And it was just rehearsal for the carnival.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Pierrot

[Jingthing]

Ask people in some French, English or American suburbs if justice is fairer in their home country than in Thailand, and they will probably say no.

No way. It is much fairer in the US, unless you are black or an undocumented Latino ...

[Pierrot]

Ask people in some French, English or American suburbs if justice is fairer in their home country than in Thailand, and they will probably say no.

No way. It is much fairer in the US, unless you are black or an undocumented Latino ...

or unemployed, or undereducated, or ....

Same same in Thailand, if you're rich, well educated and good looking, life is beautiful

Edited May 5, 2009 by Pierrot

[Sabum]

Absolutely ridiculous, same as back home eh?

[Ta22]

I think your complete perspective on the Thai justice system is naive. if you are rich you are innocent, if you are poor or foreign and forgot to bribe then you are guilty, is this what you meant by "so far the law work fine for many people"?

well this is not the first time you been negative on my reply , but then again you are free to think what ever you like .

i can't help you to se ethe half full cup when you are alway seeing the cup half gone .

so what ever i said or reply you would have your own version to rebuff it

good day , when i say something i prefer it to be on a larger scale .

i am refering to the whole law system in the world .

so far , i had seen little justice - on an over all and alot of the case which is common sence had been made so complex and -

come again .. who had really step up in this time and days .

people had forget how to be Decent anymore .

and which ever way there can , there will use it to even escape trlling the most basic of truth .

-----

so be it the cycle is feed by the Needs of the system that is supported by those who choose to embace what suit them best , instead of what is best .

" in my view a killer is not all bad and a killer have his own value , and also can do both good and bad , is just that the system do not allow such chances and most i judge base on one event in their life "

anyway . i shall keep this short

keep it real

[Sabum]

well this is not the first time you been negative on my reply , but then again you are free to think what ever you like .

i can't help you to se ethe half full cup when you are alway seeing the cup half gone .

so what ever i said or reply you would have your own version to rebuff it

good day , when i say something i prefer it to be on a larger scale .

i am refering to the whole law system in the world .

so far , i had seen little justice - on an over all and alot of the case which is common sence had been made so complex and -

come again .. who had really step up in this time and days .

people had forget how to be Decent anymore .

and which ever way there can , there will use it to even escape trlling the most basic of truth .

-----

so be it the cycle is feed by the Needs of the system that is supported by those who choose to embace what suit them best , instead of what is best .

" in my view a killer is not all bad and a killer have his own value , and also can do both good and bad , is just that the system do not allow such chances and most i judge base on one event in their life "

anyway . i shall keep this short

keep it real

Well with such an interesting outlook on everything you are going to get people disagreeing with you big time.

[Pierrot]

One interesting piece from the Economist before this thread degenerates in the usual rant against the local police :

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/dis...ory_id=13497460

The article ends by "no policeman has ever been convicted of murder or manslaughter for a death following police contact, though there have been more than 400 such deaths in the past ten years alone."

And for people to lazy to follow the link, it's in the UK !

It's not my point to single out the UK in this matter, I'm sure you can find the same about the police in France, the USA, Germany and most other "democratic and civilized" countries.

By the same token, I hope people will realize that the way the police handled the protests by both the yellows and the reds was very restrained by any international standard.

[H2oDunc]

Having just watched, for the umpteenth time, the accused being paraded in front of the media with the evidence of the alleged crime piled up and the gloating police making sure they are in the photo shoot, I must ask the question, is there such thing as a fair trial in Thailand?

I don't suppose for one minute there is a jury system, but I wonder how to they try and ensure a trial is fair, or don't they bother.

Most of the ones I have seen on TV the guys have already pleaded guilty and made a confession. The jury system comes into play when people plead not guilty ? And yes there are many cases of a fair trial in Thailand.

Lets hope it never gets like the joke of a judicial system we now have back in the UK. They make it ever harder to actually send the scumbags to prison and when they do they are let out around a third of the way through an already pathetic sentence. The prisons we have there are nothing but holiday camps when they do finally send the away. I certainly feel a great deal safer here in Thailand than back there.

[Hyponeros]

When I hear about justice in Thailand I always think on one hand of that guy who was poor, stole 300 000 baht and is now in prison for 50 years and on the other hand the son of a rich guy and an ex miss Thailand who killed people with his car and never had to go to prison.

And even Thai people know: if you are rich you are innocent, if you are poor you are guilty!

[bertlamar]

When I hear about justice in Thailand I always think on one hand of that guy who was poor, stole 300 000 baht and is now in prison for 50 years and on the other hand the son of a rich guy and an ex miss Thailand who killed people with his car and never had to go to prison.

And even Thai people know: if you are rich you are innocent, if you are poor you are guilty!

a lot is to do with what deals can be made; for instance the rich people can make some act of contrition (is that the right word?) and make a sizeable donation; then the injured party may drop the charge.

a poor person...well they can't offer much can they?!

with regards to the police photo line ups, I am fairly sure the reinactments etc occur once the person has already admitted guilt/confessed for the most part; usually the inactment the guy shows what he did/woman shows what she did. Fairly sure they do it by pleading guilty to reduce the sentence later on.

certainly, rich live on a different wave length; think of the numerous suspended hollywood celeb drug charges vs. the sentences handed out to Inglewood's finest, and there you see this isn't exclusive to Thailand.

Edited May 6, 2009 by bertlamar

[dave111223]

I always wonder why the criminal cooperate? Why do they walk willingly into the photo shoot, or reenact the crime scene for the cameras?

If i'd just been caught for murdering some people or with massive amounts of drugs, i wouldn't cooperate, they'd literal have to drag me kicking and screaming, spitting and shitting....<deleted> them (would be my mentality i think)...

But i've never once seen a criminal act this way in my years here?

Edited May 6, 2009 by dave111223

[Boater]

But i've never once seen a criminal act this way in my years here?

probably because they would get a very serious kickin from the BIB

[GarryP]

Don't know about Bangkok, but in the sticks even the poor buy themselves out of trouble. A distant cousin of the wife just paid 20,000 Baht to have attempted murder charges dropped. Had to sell a buffalo to raise the capital but got off. I know for a fact that this is the most common way forward. Even in cases of murder, just pay off the family of the deceased. Usually not more than 100K in the northeast.

As to parading around re-enacting the crime, like someone mentioned, only done when the accused has already pleaded guilty to the police.

Edited May 6, 2009 by GarryP

[dave111223]

But i've never once seen a criminal act this way in my years here?

probably because they would get a very serious kickin from the BIB

But you'd think there'd be atleast some criminals who are just savage animals, not caring if they'd later get a beating.

It's just so strange when you see the murderer walking calmly about the crime scene pointing out "Here is where i cut that guys head off, like this" (makes sawing motion). "And this is where are strangled the other guy"...

In contrast when you watch the US prison shows on discovery or national geographic, where there seem to be an abundance of prisoners, that throw their feces around, have to get dragged around everywhere, and seem eager to get beaten up by 6 guards in riot gear.

(Which is kind of more what you'd expect when take someone who's already f*cked in the head, and then has nothing to lose)

Edited May 6, 2009 by dave111223