Dont know why im letting this get to me, but its something that bugs me sometimes; the way some westerners talk to Thai. (did I use the ";" correctly? )

Its not so much what they are saying, but how they are saying it. Simplifying English is one thing. Talking to the person like you think they are retarded is another. I think Thai peoples manners are impeccable in this department. Putting up with others who do this to you.

Got back from Immigration this morning, which was packed. I had a seat at the front of the counters, so I often overheard when voices were raised and words were repeated in a patronising manner to staff members just because they either didnt like the answer given, or were asked to repeat. Ok, maybe its understandable sometimes in situations where you feel stressed, but still, I see it at times happen just in ordinary everyday situations.

Ironic too when the Thai person may well be better educated that the person talking down to them.

The only time it can really make my blood boil a bit, is if it ever happens to my boyfriend. He is intelligent and educated. Successful too. His English vocabulary truly never fails to amaze me. However, his pronunciation we are still working on. We talk easy together, and he cracks some wicked jokes, but when he meets someone new (westerner), he tends to pause too long to think of the right thing/word order. He also sometimes needs time just to 'tune into' the different accent and pick up on whats being said. One man who lives near us, each time he sees us, talks to my bf like he is talking to an idiot. The first I met him, I tried to have a decent conversation, but (sorry to say this) he was boring as hel_l, with no conversation skills. I also realised he sometimes doesnt understand some words I use (and no, I dont use 'high' English, just ordinary vocabulary), so had to keep my conversation simple (his first language is English). I dont need to simplify my English with my bf! (If he doesnt understand a word, then I explain it, or say or find the equivalent in Thai). This same man, who i have never patronised, talks to my bf like he is talking to someone he considers stupid. Even after putting up with that crap, my Bf says nothing negative about him afterwards. Once it got to me so much I started to have a rant about it, but my bf just said nevermind. Well...now we just do our best to ignore him.

Its good to speak slowly and clearly if you dont know the persons English ability, to make sure you are understood. But, no need to talk to others in a condescending way. Heck, if we want to be really sure we are clear in what we are saying, particularly if we live here, then learn the bloody native language!

So.... ....hmm... kind of ran out of steam now. Feels good to vent a little. Should i post this...?? hmm... Yeh..sod it!

I agree with you Squeeky, it gets to me the way some ex-pats here talk to the locals, how do they expect their English to improve if you talk to them like a three year old all the time. I try to use correct English all the time and then only really modify it if the person I am talking to hasn't got to grips with what I am saying (I have to do this with some ex-pats too)

One thing they forget is that most Thais are very adept at learning different languages, most I know already speak at least two or three, the lady who owns the ex-pat bar here speaks Thai, Laos, Khmen, German and English, I've had some great conversations with her.

The part about speaking slowly and clearly has never been a problem for me, I may have mentioned this before but, I used to have a very bad st.st.st.st.stammer when I was younger, so I had speech therapy.... basically my brain was working much faster than my mouth could cope with, the cure for which was to repeat what you wanted to say inside your head several times before you try to verbalise it, the upside of this is that I tend to speak very clearly with only a hint of a regional accent (most people can't work out where the heck I am from) the downside is that some people think that I am either 'slow' or deliberately ignoring them, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Taddy, its nice to listen to someone who takes time to formulate what they want to say, rather than blurt out the first thing that comes to mind and yabber on. Well, in my opinion anyway. Its sad that some people would consider you slow or rude. Actually, when a person seems to take time to consider what I have said, then gives me a considered answer, the last thing i am thinking is that they are 'slow'!

Personally I dont think very minute in a persons company shouldnt need to be filled with rapid fire or constant talking anyway, particularly someone you know well and are comfortable with. Love having a relaxed casual conversation where I have time to muse and mull over what is being discussed.

An amusing side is they start to talk to each other like it as well.

"Hi mate, <deleted> mao mak mak last night".

"Me too, mai sabai today, son nom nar eh?"

gotta agree, eek. Drives me bonkers too. As Thaddy says, how can they ever expect to improve their english if all they hear is pidgin?

People talk to my husband this way too, interestingly enough, not tourists but people who live in Thailand and think speaking like an idiot is necessary. Tourists always listen to my husband, realize he's fluent (just has an accent) and then speak normally.

He finds it annoying and patronizing but doesn't usually say anything. when someone asks him if he speaks english he likes to answer "a little"

Why do people do that? Okay, simplify your english, but why all that pidgin <deleted>?

It must be that wee scottish accent that you have there, hen.

I had a friend who once took his Tarzan-inspired bar talk accent and used it with a Singaporean - in Singapore, no less. He did quickly learn his mistake however, as you'd expect.

I can sympathise with people who do not have a strong command of Thai (like me!) however and do need to make themselves understood, but yeah, there are limits.

Got back from Immigration this morning, which was packed. I had a seat at the front of the counters, so I often overheard when voices were raised and words were repeated in a patronising manner to staff members just because they either didnt like the answer given, or were asked to repeat.

I agree with your sentiments about pidgin being spoken - but I'll just add that the staff in Bangkok Immigration are the most patronising, rude bunch of a**holes I've ever come across in Thailand. Although maybe this is why - having to endure this kind of crap all day must try their patience more than just a little bit...

Got back from Immigration this morning, which was packed. I had a seat at the front of the counters, so I often overheard when voices were raised and words were repeated in a patronising manner to staff members just because they either didnt like the answer given, or were asked to repeat.

I agree with your sentiments about pidgin being spoken - but I'll just add that the staff in Bangkok Immigration are the most patronising, rude bunch of a**holes I've ever come across in Thailand. Although maybe this is why - having to endure this kind of crap all day must try their patience more than just a little bit...

Although I had to visit Immi in BKK a few times while building Su'boom Airport, this was always with a couple of Thai liaison people, so I had no problems.

A year or more ago (eighteen months now) I lost my passport at Kao Keow Zoo (I think) and had to get a new one. When I went to Immi to get a new visa in it, explaining all the circumstances, I had to visit about six different counters on my own - my wife was working.

These people couldn't have been more helpful - each one telling me where the next stamp could be got, which part of which form needed filling, so on, so forth. And all spoke understandable English. OK, it took best part of the day to get around every counter and I was very tired at the end, but on the way round I heard abuse from many of the expats there, polite thank-yous from very few. I could not have worked in that place without hitting at least one person every day.

I have worked abroad for over thirty years - my English vocabulary has shrunk alarmingly, but on every construction site I have to learn a new 'pidgin' made up from the various national languages of the workers employed there - often up to 35 different nationalities.

In such circumstances I think that the pidgin is useful, but when in a one-to-one situation with a foreign national, it is best to treat them like an intelligent adult, but use a slightly implified vocabulary. (Except the French - them you ignore)

And of course you have to oversimplify to a very high degree when you meet Geordies - but that's another tale.

here you go eek, rant away

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Speak-Pigeon...ml#entry2769003

here you go eek, rant away

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Speak-Pigeon...ml#entry2769003

Don't worry if you miss that one Squeeky, there'll be another one along in a couple of months

How about those native English speakers that think everybody speaks and understands English they same way they do?

Even when pointing it out to them that English is not your first language and please speak more clear and a bit slower they continue talking fast and in their dialect.

Took a taxi yesterday as I had to go to some government office, had a few words with the driver and he assumed I was very fluent in Thai (which I am not) so he started talking as if I was a Thai, so I asked him if he could slow down a bit and use more simple words as I told him I am still learning.

Had a great taxi ride as he immediately started talking slower and used simple words, great experience.

Funny, I had the opposite with my MIL. She speaks Southern Thai, very very fast. So, one day she is telling me something, I get about 2 words. I said, "sorry I don't understand", so she said it louder My FIL turned to her and said (in a very frustrated voice) something along the lines of "she doesn't understand what you are saying!"

She still talks too fast but my Thai has improved and I catch about 65% of what she says now

My wife is worst on the phone - speaking English very loud, very fast and very wrong!!

Can't (or don't want to) understand a word of it.

SBK you make the beginners mistake saying you do not understand.

Tel her to speak more slowly, she will understand (hopefully)

Maybe im just lazy but i do simplify my engish if someone does not seem to be on the same level. I still speak correct english just use easier words and not all the phrases that i know.

For those of you who say how else can they learn if you dont speak correct english you are correct and a lot more patient then me. I think it depends if your speaking with someone you see a lot and want to teach them anything or if you are with someone and you just want them to understand.

Haha, i find that one the most hilarious. If the person doesnt understand the sentence, then say it again ...LOUDER! wth.!

The purpose of communication is to convey one's thoughts. Simplified (improper) use of language is often the most effective way of achieving the purpose and, if appropriate to the circumstances, it is acceptable. Unfortunately, some people tend to use simplified language when it is unnecessary and demeaning (whether due to arrogance, racism or general stupidity). Those who insist that they will only speak proper English to (rather than with) people who have difficulty comprehending it are doing no service to the person or themselves and could be viewed as being just as arrogant as those who use simplified language when unnecessary.

(I'm improving - I've got my standard reponse to this type of thread down to four lines!)

Afraid I am guilty of this.

My gal is native Filipina and a university grad, writes perfect Ehglish.

Unfortunately her oral efforts and accent leave me a bit confused.

I feel I am demeaning her at times.

Hard habit to get out of.