Don’t Reject Good Advices From Your Doctor

[tominchaam]

Recently I got very sick and was taken to a good hospital in our region where I have been registered since many years. As my condition was serious the doctors wanted to put me into intensive care unit which I first refused. The reason why I at first rejected it was I have heard so many stories about the hospitals trying to do anything to increase their profit. I gave in only after a doctor told me straight on it was a must due to my condition and according to his opinion as a doctor anything else would be suicide.

After a night at their intensive care unit I was removed to an international hospital in Bangkok and they managed to cure my illness in a very professional way. At that time cost did not matter at all and the money spent have been very well used. I am now slowly recovering but home again and very happy looking forward again.

Why do I post this? I want to tell all readers that in this case my suspicions about farangs being overcharged – and my dislike of it – almost ended my life. From now on I will trust the hospitals and try to listen and understand good advices.

The following is what could have happened to me – but did not. I hope it will make at least some readers smile:

I woke up at the entrance to the heaven and God Fathers assistant looked at me and told me (he is the only one being quoted and read it as a monolog)

Welcome to us! Could you pls fill in this form and pay the entrance fee.

Sorry, we don’t accept currencies from the earth you have to pay with Gods money.

Oh, you have not got Gods money! That means we can’t accept you and you have to return from where you came. But the return trip can be paid in any currency!

You say you came from Thailand! Lucky man! Very few people do come to heaven from there as it is the territory of Buddha. We have a special agreement with Lord Buddha to return all people from Thailand free of charge as his people enjoy not only one life on earth! You can leave through the door marked “Exit” and we wish you a good trip back to earth.

[JRinger]

Recently I got very sick and was taken to a good hospital in our region where I have been registered since many years. As my condition was serious the doctors wanted to put me into intensive care unit which I first refused. The reason why I at first rejected it was I have heard so many stories about the hospitals trying to do anything to increase their profit. I gave in only after a doctor told me straight on it was a must due to my condition and according to his opinion as a doctor anything else would be suicide.

Possibly good advice in your situation although I wouldn't advise anyone to holy trust any doctors here for serious matters even if you think the costs are cheap.

Example: several years ago, a very good friend of mine was rushed to the hospital after a 'heart attack'. While in intensive care the doctor on duty wanted to perform an angioplasty or small baloon on the tip of a cable running from the thigh to the heart through a main artery. John, was against any kind of surgery unless absolutely necessary and reasoned with the doctor to try drugs first. The doctor got a bit defensive and told John "I'm only trying to save your life". So, no surgery and after two days in ICU he was moved to regular room for two more days.

Given lots of pills to take for the rest of his life, including medication to reduce cholesterol even though his cholesterol levels were normal from two other blood tests....

these days John is in pretty good shape. he stopped taking any kind of medication over a year ago and his blood pressure is ok for his age...60.......the clinics in thailand are the worst....they're legal drug dealers handing out (selling) anything and everything to naive and trusting people....especially young kids who are given antibiotics for a runny nose..I have lots of examples but after years of posting on this site, most of the responses are negative so I don't post much anymore. I've also noticed that many of the long time expats don't post anymore either.....but bottom line is: get checked out at several hospitals if you can....I was diagnosed with a stomach ulcer at Bangkok Hospital years ago, exam & drugs, 3,000 baht, and after another exam & ultrasound found it was kidney stones, ouch !!!

all that other religious gibberish I didn't understand so I won't comment

[mahtin]

all that other religious gibberish I didn't understand so I won't comment

Looks like he got some good medication.

[TheLaughingMan]

Now see this is the problem isnt it? Due to Thailands overwhelming corruption and scams even in important institutions like life saving hospitals they have sullied their good name to the point nobody trusts them or believes them when they prescribe medicine or advise procedures that cost money. This is why it is so important that they DO NOT run scams and prescribe useless medication just to make money, lives will be lost because of thier greed and lack of ethics.

Every single time I go to the hospital they prescribe me a long list of medications and when I go to buy them and take a closer look at what I'm buying I realise half of them are completely unrelated to my illness. I mean why is it every time I go to the hospital they prescribe me expensive pain killers when I never once indicated I was in pain?! It's theft and they are destroying the trust we need to have in our doctors.

[smokie36]

The OP is right to highlight the excellent (if overpriced) emergency treatment in most hospitals. But if its life or death who cares about the cost?

For more regular and diagnostic treatment it makes sense to get a second opinion and not just in Thailand. There are alternative treatments for many ailments. Better to be as informed as you can be before making your choice.

I also don't do religious stuff....maybe someone can explain it?

[Scott]

I try not to second guess my doctor. He's good and I would rather have them over-react than under-react.

They are trained, educated and they have a lot of experience.

[StatlerandWaldorf]

Now see this is the problem isnt it? Due to Thailands overwhelming corruption and scams even in important institutions like life saving hospitals they have sullied their good name to the point nobody trusts them or believes them when they prescribe medicine or advise procedures that cost money. This is why it is so important that they DO NOT run scams and prescribe useless medication just to make money, lives will be lost because of thier greed and lack of ethics.

Every single time I go to the hospital they prescribe me a long list of medications and when I go to buy them and take a closer look at what I'm buying I realise half of them are completely unrelated to my illness. I mean why is it every time I go to the hospital they prescribe me expensive pain killers when I never once indicated I was in pain?! It's theft and they are destroying the trust we need to have in our doctors.

I am with you on this, I have been to doctors here with an identical ailment which I previously had in the U.K. In the U.K I was given a single prescription of pills to take, here I had the whole candy store to take home. I looked up some of the drugs on the internet and some of them didn't seem related at all!

Having said that, I still took them, I had to believe the doctor knows more than I.

I also believe that the hospitals prescribe the more expensive 'named' drugs when there are much cheaper generic drugs available, it matters not to me as it is all covered by my medical insurance but not everyone has this so it is just not right.

[offset]

You will always get bad reports about a hospital the number of people that go through them in a year means that you will have bad references you do not have to get the drugs from them you can always ask for a prescription and get them yourself a business is there to make a profit a customer has the right to use that business or find another one most hospitals give the names and experience of there doctors so do your own homework when you can they will normally give you a estimate for any procedure that you need so shop around if it is an emergency as anywhere else you have to take what you get I must admit that in Thailand it is difficult to get recommendations for doctor but there again in the UK you do not get a lot of choice (but I think that is beginning to change) and do not forget it is much cheaper in Thailand than the UK so they might add a few things on in the UK they are already in the price where in the UK can you see a specialist privately for 20 pounds at a good quality hospital

I forgot to add find a good hospital where all the doctors nurses and anybody that is important to deal with your case can speak good English

Edited August 3, 2009 by offset

[MJo]

Now see this is the problem isnt it? Due to Thailands overwhelming corruption and scams even in important institutions like life saving hospitals they have sullied their good name to the point nobody trusts them or believes them when they prescribe medicine or advise procedures that cost money. This is why it is so important that they DO NOT run scams and prescribe useless medication just to make money, lives will be lost because of thier greed and lack of ethics.

Every single time I go to the hospital they prescribe me a long list of medications and when I go to buy them and take a closer look at what I'm buying I realise half of them are completely unrelated to my illness. I mean why is it every time I go to the hospital they prescribe me expensive pain killers when I never once indicated I was in pain?! It's theft and they are destroying the trust we need to have in our doctors.

Thais call these places "american standard" and rightly so. It all goes back to US system of over medication that Thai docs learn during their studies. But hey, it's paid by your insurance so it free ! or is it....

[tominchaam]

The intention I had with my OP was only to express an opinion that sometimes you have to trust what you are told and just not take for granted you are likely to be fooled or overcharged.

The last section was intended only as a joke and nothing religious at all – but here I apparently failed completely.

[MarkBKK]

Now see this is the problem isnt it? Due to Thailands overwhelming corruption and scams even in important institutions like life saving hospitals they have sullied their good name to the point nobody trusts them or believes them when they prescribe medicine or advise procedures that cost money. This is why it is so important that they DO NOT run scams and prescribe useless medication just to make money, lives will be lost because of thier greed and lack of ethics.

Every single time I go to the hospital they prescribe me a long list of medications and when I go to buy them and take a closer look at what I'm buying I realise half of them are completely unrelated to my illness. I mean why is it every time I go to the hospital they prescribe me expensive pain killers when I never once indicated I was in pain?! It's theft and they are destroying the trust we need to have in our doctors.

Thais call these places "american standard" and rightly so. It all goes back to US system of over medication that Thai docs learn during their studies. But hey, it's paid by your insurance so it free ! or is it....

Too true ... my empoyer's insurance pays for me, but when you get given post-operative, very strong (and very expensive) pain-killers (along with anti-emetics so you can keep them down) for a pretty minor ailment, even though you've said the odd paracetamol is fine, and the doctor keeps asking if you've had a fever because you must have an infection (and accuses you of lying when you keep saying 'No') because that is the real cause of your problem (even though the NHS website says it's ''just one of those things'' that happens every now and then for no good reason, randomly) all the crap, over-priced, totally useless drugs go straight in the bin ...

[caf]

I try not to second guess my doctor. He's good and I would rather have them over-react than under-react.

They are trained, educated and they have a lot of experience.

You are lucky then Scott. Great.

But in thailand most doctors over-medicate and are looking at the fees they can charge. It is a business here not a social service.

Get a second opinion where you can. Ask the doctor questions. Ask if there are alternatives.

[PeaceBlondie]

I generally trust most of my Thai doctors, some of whom are professors at the medical school. I go to them for a known problem, sush as poor vision, high blood pressure, an obvious infection, etc. They don't over-prescribe and the drugs generally cheap and effective. I

[ozsamurai]

Recently Acquired Knowledge: Hospitals DO RIP YOU OFF if they can, get the prescription and the dosage/length of any drug from your doctor, even buy 2 of them or so to hold you for a day, then down to the pharmacy and get the generic versions. Don't just hand over thousands of baht, because they want to sell you Pfizer branded crap and give you 100 of them at 80bht each.

Point in Case; recent touch of pneumonia, doctor prescibes 5-7 days of Cravit 500 @ 120bht each, Ibuprophen @ 10bht Each, Tylenol @ 10Bht each, anyway the bill comes near 4000 for a cold. At checkout, I just handed back the medicine, no thanks... I don't need 20 of those, I'll just take 2 please..... went to Save Drug. Cravit generic 30Bht each, Tylenol (so cheap its not funny) and I had Ibuprophen.

Take care not to be an idiot and grab the bag full of goodies, like any aware consumer, what are you paying for??

Oz

[MarkBKK]

Take care not to be an idiot and grab the bag full of goodies, like any aware consumer, what are you paying for??

Oz

New Mercedes for the doctor ...

[caf]

I generally trust most of my Thai doctors, some of whom are professors at the medical school. I go to them for a known problem, sush as poor vision, high blood pressure, an obvious infection, etc. They don't over-prescribe and the drugs generally cheap and effective. I

Great PB. If you get a good doctor, good hospital I'm pleased for you.

But it is not the view of the majority.

I queried a medication on a presription at Sirikat and then was told. Well no you don't need that

And that was confirmed later by an american doctor

My point is: Question when you can - It's your helath at stake not theirs.

Understand what they are saying - diagnosis, does it agree with presented symptoms?

Maybe second opinion

This forum is useful in that it allows readers to look at other people's experiences. OK yours have been positive. That's great

[mauGR1]

IMHO second opinion(at least)is very useful for serious health issues.

My story:A good friend of mine,having a bad cough for a while,went to hospital and got X-ray.

X-ray showed a suspicious "shadow" in the lung.

Doc said need operation,this is the cost(about 1000 bucks)

My friend went to another hospital,got another X-ray.

Result?Nothing in the lung,just a bad cough.

BTW,these things happen in EU too,and they are pretty quick to cover the scandal if it surfaces...

[Neeranam]

I would stay away from the so called 'good' hospitals.

One of my daughters was born in the top one -Bamrungrad and yes they did the "she needs ICU" thing, which of course she didn't. Cheating bastards

The next one was born free in a Govt. hospital and much better.

I took my wife to the best private hospital in Isarn and was told that she had a pulmonary embolism by two doctors. They told me that she could die any minute. After a couple of nearly unbearable hours, they changed their minds - fuc_king idiots.

I know two recovering alcoholics that went to the top hospitals in the country and now are drug addicts.

NEVER believe what the doctors at these private hospitals tell you!!

[JoeThePoster]

NEVER believe what the doctors at these private hospitals tell you!!

In a recent discussion related to vaccination, a doctor at Samitivej tried his best to convince me that Thailand is located in the southern hemisphere.

[offset]

I would stay away from the so called 'good' hospitals.

One of my daughters was born in the top one -Bamrungrad and yes they did the "she needs ICU" thing, which of course she didn't. Cheating bastards

The next one was born free in a Govt. hospital and much better.

I took my wife to the best private hospital in Isarn and was told that she had a pulmonary embolism by two doctors. They told me that she could die any minute. After a couple of nearly unbearable hours, they changed their minds - fuc_king idiots.

I know two recovering alcoholics that went to the top hospitals in the country and now are drug addicts.

NEVER believe what the doctors at these private hospitals tell you!!

Had an operation done in the Bamrungrad last week found it to be good nurses very good doctor very professional all worked out good but I did my homework before deciding which doctor that I felt comfortable with in UK terms I did not think that it was expensive I had the option of open surgery or Robotic but the only hospital that could do Robotic was a government hospital but the doctor was a little bit to up his own backside he was telling me that he would do my surgery in about 2hrs where most of the surgeons in the USA take 3/4hrs and they have much more experience with these machines than anybody in Thailand I could see were going to be language problems and compared to the Bamrungrad there was no comparison although I am told the Royal Family go there so if you need treatment make your own judgement am do not forget you normally only here the bad stories

[MJo]

I would stay away from the so called 'good' hospitals.

One of my daughters was born in the top one -Bamrungrad and yes they did the "she needs ICU" thing, which of course she didn't. Cheating bastards

The next one was born free in a Govt. hospital and much better.

I took my wife to the best private hospital in Isarn and was told that she had a pulmonary embolism by two doctors. They told me that she could die any minute. After a couple of nearly unbearable hours, they changed their minds - fuc_king idiots.

I know two recovering alcoholics that went to the top hospitals in the country and now are drug addicts.

NEVER believe what the doctors at these private hospitals tell you!!

You are qualified doctor yourself ?

Read the OP, sometimes it pays to leave it to the pros and do what they tell you to do...

It's a real shame when "they are out to get me and my money" paranoia stikes.

I do agree that often it is matter of preference and different doctors have different opinions and they also make mistakes. So getting a second opinion is not that bad idea. However i'm not buying that all private hospital docs are on the take and just there to part you from your money. I have used private hospitals here for more than a decade and not once they have make any mistake or tried to scam me.

My daughter was born in Bumrungrad as well and to be honest they adviced on c-section only as last resort to save our baby from further suffering and just on time before the the situation could develop seriously life threatening for both baby and mother. Very professional IMHO and no they did not recommend any unnecessary "ICU" after the operation. Just kept the baby under monitoring for few ours to make sure all is ok and the cost was included in the package anyways.

[scorecard]

Ultimately it's a judgment call.

I've lived in Bangkok over 20 years and I could share a long list of 'mistakes' my family has experienced at the so called '5 star' hospitals, including most recently with my 4 year old grandaughter, took her to one '5 star' place three times in one evening, every time a quite different diagnosis, on third visit we inisted/demanded that she be taken to a ward for further close observation. Next morning the childrens outpatients doctor we had seen many times before (same hospital) came and gave another different diagnois which subsequently turned out to be correct. I complained bitterly, never had any response from the hospital. I could go on with a long list.

Seems to me:

- There are good doctors who are very genuine and very profesional in their diagnosis and care.

- There are doctors who are lazy and not very capable.

- There are hospitals which are so called '5 star' which are only interested in how to jack up the bill.

Somehow we all must make a case by case judgment call.

[PeaceBlondie]

So, do we just let the somtam vendor and the tuk-tuk driver perform open-heart surgery in the gutter?

[caf]

So, do we just let the somtam vendor and the tuk-tuk driver perform open-heart surgery in the gutter?

No we use our judgment and experience

See the post immediately above yours for an unbiased and fair assessment. Such posts actually help readers wanting genuine advice on this forum

Just because Person A has a good experience at hospital B with doctor C does not preclude posters commenting on their own bad experiences in an open forum

[BangkokHank]

My (former) Thai doctor used to beg me to take (buy) the unnecessary pills that he prescribed for me because he told me that the hospital management had a sales quota for him to achieve. If he didn't push a certain amount of pills, he would get a dressing down from his boss. (Once, one of the pills on my hospital bill was described as a "pain killer" - and I was charged fifty baht a piece for them. Upon closer inspection, this pain killer turned out to be paracetamol - with the hospital's name stamped on the side of it - presumably as a way to add value.)

I tried to explain to him that by selling people pills that they didn't need, he would end up losing customers. Alas, Thais can't think that far ahead - and my prediction came true: he lost me as a customer.

He also told me that his hospital has three price levels for the very same procedures: Cheapest for Thais; more expensive for farangs; and most expensive for Arabs. (Okay, I can understand overcharging filthy rich Arabs. But farangs?! )

Now I do the same thing that a few others have recommended here: I just refuse all drugs from the hospitals. Instead I take the name of the drugs and buy them myself for a fraction of the cost at a pharmacy.

[Neeranam]

My daughter was born in Bumrungrad as well and to be honest they adviced on c-section only as last resort to save our baby from further suffering and just on time before the the situation could develop seriously life threatening for both baby and mother.

That's the oldest one in their book. Exactly what they told us.

Do you actually think the Bamrungrad doctors come out in the middle of the night? Their tee time is far more important.

An exception, IME, is Samitevej. I went there once for a couple of days and the doctor suggested it would be cheaper to go to Ramathipodi(Govt. hospital) where he also worked. My Thai friend did offer him a free weekend in her hotel on the beach - that's the way it works in this country.

Find out where the good doctors work privately and then go and see them in their Govt. hospital, where it is not run as a business.

[Neeranam]

Now I do the same thing that a few others have recommended here: I just refuse all drugs from the hospitals. Instead I take the name of the drugs and buy them myself for a fraction of the cost at a pharmacy.

Are you Scottish? I often did that - saved a fortune. Just tell the cashier that you're allergic to all the said medicines.

[MJo]

My daughter was born in Bumrungrad as well and to be honest they adviced on c-section only as last resort to save our baby from further suffering and just on time before the the situation could develop seriously life threatening for both baby and mother.

That's the oldest one in their book. Exactly what they told us.

Do you actually think the Bamrungrad doctors come out in the middle of the night? Their tee time is far more important.

An exception, IME, is Samitevej. I went there once for a couple of days and the doctor suggested it would be cheaper to go to Ramathipodi(Govt. hospital) where he also worked. My Thai friend did offer him a free weekend in her hotel on the beach - that's the way it works in this country.

Find out where the good doctors work privately and then go and see them in their Govt. hospital, where it is not run as a business.

You didn't answer my question, are you a qualified doctor yourself ?

Well i guess not and as you seem to refuse to subscribe their "scams" and refuse to pay even with the risk of losing your child and wife. Many of us, like myself, value life more than money.

I still don't believe they somehow managed to keep delaying resulting my wife to be in hard labour for a day before scamming me with the c-section. And there was the good old ICU scam as well, keep the baby under monitoring for free of charge. Bastards. Can you also tell me how they rig the monitors and make it appear that our babys heart rate started to drop eventually to almost critical levels ? I'm no doctor but i have enough common sense to see when it really hits the fan. Just look the alarms going off and staff including docs running all around...

Ah yes, just because they are all scammers. That's why. Sorry wait, i mean all of them except Samtiev.... Will take the most expesive package in town next time just to avoid being scammed...

Edited August 4, 2009 by MJo

[Neeranam]

You didn't answer my question, are you a qualified doctor yourself ? No, I'm not a doctor, qualified or unqualified but have a much better knowledge of Bangkok hospitals than most.

Well i guess not and as you seem to refuse to subscribe their "scams" and refuse to pay even with the risk of losing your child and wife. Many of us, like myself, value life more than money. I didn't refuse their scam, I ended up paying more than double the original quote.

I still don't believe they somehow managed to keep delaying resulting my wife to be in hard labour for a day before scamming me with the c-section. And there was the good old ICU scam as well, keep the baby under monitoring for free of charge. Bastards. Can you also tell me how they rig the monitors and make it appear that our babys heart rate started to drop eventually to almost critical levels ? I'm no doctor but i have enough common sense to see when it really hits the fan. Just look the alarms going off and staff including docs running all around...

Ah yes, just because they are all scammers. That's why. Sorry wait, i mean all of them except Samtiev.... Will take the most expesive package in town next time just to avoid being scammed...

[MarkBKK]

So, do we just let the somtam vendor and the tuk-tuk driver perform open-heart surgery in the gutter?

No, of course not. We let them do it in hospitals here.

[Edited bit: To be fair, of the few times my wife or I have had to visit a doctor/hospital in Bangkok over the last six years, we haven't been ripped-off/misdiagnosed every time. Almost every time, but not every time.]

Edited August 4, 2009 by MarkBKK