Massive Fee Hikes For Work Permits Mooted

[opalhort]

Am I just imagining it, or does it seem that often when prices or feels are raised in Thailand--either commercial or government--it tends to be a very large increase, which often represents a burden and feels punitive?

It is true that fees here go up at a high rate, but we mustn't forget that they also remain stable for many years sometimes more than a decade! This is the way the bureaucracy works here.

In other countries rates go up on an annual basis to match the Cost of living index (or whatever it's called).

How much does a foreign embassy charge here now for a new passport compared to ten years ago?

I recall the huge outcry when IMM raised extension fees from 500B to 1,900B after having left it stable for about a decade.

Many posts were about "Thailand doesn't want us" and "I'm leaving" etc., well most of those people are still here.

We all have to accept the fact that prices have to up, but yes a gradual increase would go down better with everybody affected.

opalhort

p.s. English language question: in the above post what is correct "those" or "these" people?

Edited September 1, 2009 by opalhort

[MrJohnson]

I've just been given a two year permit.............6,200 baht. Look's like I'd better start saving for the next one.

2 years to save B6200 .........sounds like about B150 per month. Yes indeedy, best get that piggy bank out and start making a few sacrifices.

[jefbel]

This is the proof that the economic crisis in Thailand is finally over - they don't need anyone to invest here anymore.

It is just a consequent move after scaring 40% of their tourists away, and anyone should already have expected it.

Let the countries around inhale the 'brain drain' from the Western countries, and who knows if Singapore, sucking up the major share of the world's intelligence in the region, is really as wealthy as these alien analysts say? Haha! China? Come on, we are already trading rice with them! Malaysia? We are different! We are 'self sufficient' enough to go our very own way and whoever is stupid enough wanting to work here shall be punished.

Do Thai officials actually read this forum?

If so, why they keep on doing what they do? greedy or stupidity?!

[nakedAIR1300]

the money is not the point. First they make up jump through hoops to get a work permit and then they make us jump through hoops on fire to get our yearly work permit renewed and now they jack the price up. Thailand has serious issues and it makes my blood boil.

I still cant understand why they give us a work permit for 1 year and we still have to fly to another country to get non b visa and only certainly countries will issue such visa's...its ALL beyond me. Ive had enough but since i have a well established business here i dont really feel like moving just yet. Ill take it on the chin a little longer but if things go pear shaped im moving to HK myself.

My business supports 23 employees and so im putting food in the mouths of them and their families. I feel good working here for myself and my employees but the government has GOT TO stop this nonsense! I am embarresed for them and the way they carry out their day to day political antics. When are they going to learn? When are they going to give us a break and realise our REAL value? Im not a whinger... i feel like im being discriminated against and im speaking out about it.

Wake up Thailand... we love your country but PLEASE give us a little more respect and stop trying to take us for everything we are worth at ALL levels.

Thank you.

nuff said

[alant]

is this why peter reid went back to england

[minxwhale]

Massive fee hikes for work permits mooted

<snip>

PHUKET: -- The Phuket Gazette has learned that recent rumors of substantial increases in work permit fees may be well-founded. Discussions are underway in the Department of Employment that could once again lead to massive hikes in these annual fees.

<snip>

The last hike in work permit fees occurred in September 2002, delivering an impressive 200% hike, an event that triggered lively and colorful comments on ThaiVisa.Com, host to Thailand's largest English-language Web forum. Some recent comments in that forum, albeit from sources undisclosed and/or unofficial, foreshadow this month's hike as likely to be something well over 100%.

Am I just imagining it, or does it seem that often when prices or feels are raised in Thailand--either commercial or government--it tends to be a very large increase, which often represents a burden and feels punitive?

Only when it comes to the low-hanging fruit, i.e. the foreigners or the people who employ them, both of who get shafted at every turn.

[JohnBKKK]

Amazing how the "if you can't afford it you shouldn't be here" brigade comes out in force - if you chaps are so keen to give away your money why don't you hand it all over to the Thai government - sure they'll love it.

[Geekfreaklover]

It wouldn't surprise me if they started auctions for citizenship soon.

We have to admit the Thais are quite smart when it comes to these things. They know that the 'if you don't like it go home card' can be played at anytime. How long before the bluff is called? -The way I see it is that they have the expat situation well under control. Bless em.

[JohnBKKK]

Do Thai officials actually read this forum?

If so, why they keep on doing what they do? greedy or stupidity?!

most don't read english and the ones that do don't give a hoot - they rather spend their time with their mia noi than waste their time working

Edited September 1, 2009 by JohnBKKK

[rodcourt49]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

It's all talk and no action because they're still here.

But really..isn't it just the same in our countries of origin ?..the excise on alcohol, cigs still rises..people still smoke and drink..a small price to pay to live in such a great place..personal choice..up to you Mr. Farang.

[sunny747]

Not only western lives here but a big number Asians living and working here as well. Their salary is not too much specially the teachers. i obviously don't pay for my WP as my company pays for it. But if it is too much, i'm sure companies here will be reluctant to hire more foreigners.

sad news indeed.

[Thaiblue]

Oh, we are not wanted, we're all going to leave, the country will collapse without us, we are valuable, the people on the back of that pick up truck said something about me as they went past and now I feel sad

booooooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oo

In 7 years the cost of a work permit MAY increase by 3,000 Baht. That's not so bad. People are always going to moan and make empty threats to leave. There wasn't this many complaints when the regulations changed for business visas, the extra paperwork required and official stamps don't come free.

We have no say in the running of this country and never will, if you don't like it then there is only one thing to do.

It's not easy to stay here sometimes, but Thailand wants to keep it's country for itself. We know as well as they do that with the knowledge of some (certainly not all) foreigners then the country may move forward at a faster pace, but at what expense? Look at countries like the UK, very slack immigration laws for years and now the British people feel like their country is not their own any more.

I don't want to pay any more to stay here than I already do, but I will, as will most people, even those moaning on here.

For me the slow, outdated process of getting a renewal is more of an issue, we are just about to move into 2010, someone should start to get some of the information we submit onto a computer so we can update it once a year, not resubmit everything like we just arrived.

[CWMcMurray]

I do feel bad for those that have to pay for their own work permits, in most cases they do not make all that much money to begin with and this will definately have an impact on their finances.

For those working for companies, I believe that in most cases the companies are paying fo rthe WP fees. In those cases, it will most likely not have a huge effect. Those companies that hire foreign nationals and in many cases pay them a higher wage than a locally hired person, will most likely fire all of their foreign staff over a few thousand baht a year.

As with many tax increases, this one appears to be regressive and will affect those in the lower income bracket the most.

To be fair to Thailand, they are also facing unemployment issues and just like every country in the world, when unemployment rises, the government receives pressure to make it harder for foreign nations to work. They will look for more justification as to "why a Thai person can not do that job"...

[fxe1200]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

The employees who make enough money they would not care, but those who are teaching and make like 20 to 30K per month, it is a slap in their face. Why not impose a regular fee or tax for those foreigners working here? That could i.e. be 0,5 to 1% of their gross salary. A solution everybody could live with.

[otherstuff1957]

One thing that always puzzles me about these announcements... They almost always come from some mid-level provincial bureaucrat rather than from someone at the main office in BKK. Why did some official in Phuket announce this one, aren't the main governmental decisions made in Bangkok?

[bubba]

Rather than being the money involved, I think a large increase in fees would be more symbolic than economic. Accordingly, I am somehow disappointed in Khun Abhisit government and such policies. Call me naive, but I had been expecting something a bit more visionary from the Democrats. Policies such as these simply reinforce the same old business as usual philosophy to the foreign business sector who might also take this as a symbol of Thailand's welcome for foreign direct investment.

[Samuian]

if one is paid or taxed of an income of not less then 30.000 Baht

or 360.000 a year what's the fuss of churning out some 9000 or so?

Most employed here are being paid way more, closer to 600.000 and

beyond - so what?

In my home country after tax every euro is only worth 47 cents!

Does anyone know how many "foreign employees" are in LoS?

Edited September 1, 2009 by Samuian

[SantiSuk]

Put yourself in the Government's shoes. Shall we raise taxes on the Thai people and get loads of flack from the people or shall we increase taxes on those rich b*stards that many Thais despise (overpaid, over-sexed and over here). No contest!

Not fair, populist and short term thinking (politics was ever thus), so keep on whining, but many of you would probably have celebrated such a decision if it was done in the country of your origin. Certainly would be celebrated by the masses if done in the UK - 'all those foreign bankers and Polish tradesmen [working dam_n hard and] making far too much money, it's a disgrace'.

yes I know Poland is in the EU and could not be levied in that way

[Who, me ?]

talk talk talk.....and at the end of the day, we will all bring our money and we will all smile and bow, and be over polite.....to get our work permit. Same as for the visa. Whatever we say won't change a thing. We stand it, that's fine. We don't, so..what to do? Extreme decision like "I'll leave the country" only concerns those who have no ties here. I am one of the expats who have their family here, and for whom life is HERE in Thailand.... And a few thousand more to pay per year will not change this!

[JR Texas]

Anyone who says they are leaving because the fees are going up is obviously not making any money here.

I think the point is a bit more complicated than that..........they are leaving because they have finally had enough of the anti-foreigner/xenophobic BS that has been dished out, especially over the past 9 years.........in other words, this become the "tipping point."

Interesting that one poster stated something about Thailand trying to become like the other, getting rid of the foreigners. NO........in fact, most of its neighbors are doing the precise opposite with their rules.......they are attracting foreigners/expats/tourists. Thailand is the country in the region that is "out of step."

"Drill another hole in the bottom." The orders came down from the Captain of Thailand-Titanic.

[Chanok]

Strangely they give free tourist visas with one hand, and then they go ahead and collect increased fees for work permits with the other hand.

Just one more clue that says Thailand doesn't want long timers, but only short timers and big spenders.

[alaninkarachi]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

Since first joinng this Web site I have been amazed at just how much everyone moans. And then moans more again and again. To many of you are sounding so miserable and fed up here. Price Hikes for Work Permits. Can't live well as a teacher etc etc. Well may I suggest if the grass is so green elsewhere go, perhaps just go home to your own Country. Help your fellow Country men. Especially perhaps the ones who did not get a chance to travel. So go, because Thailand offers you one fabulous thing, there is no requirement for an exis visa. I suggest all you unhappy people hurry up to the airport and make sure you book a flight before all the others in the mass exodus. But if you decide to stay on stop moaning.

[iwok]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

This is really interesting, because if you've ever spent time sitting in the work permit office (shock of shocks, I actually did the paperwork for mine by myself!) you'd really want to know what these supposed expenses are. What's annoying about this is not that you have to pay more for the document - yes, inflation affects everything and price increases are to be expected - but that this is another prime example of beaurocracy inventing the need for itself.

There are surplus employees doing surplus paperwork to be signed by surplus officials with surplus automobile allowances. Come on, let's not be so self-deluded to think that a handful of expats are powering the Thai economy, nor that the thoughts or opinions of said group would be considered in this sort of decision.

If you want to be upset or fed up and ready to leave because of something, how about monstrous beaurocracy mercilessly reproducing and feeding itself off a base of hard-working 'producers' about whom it has no concern?

It's not actually like this everywhere, after all.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

Since first joinng this Web site I have been amazed at just how much everyone moans. And then moans more again and again. To many of you are sounding so miserable and fed up here. Price Hikes for Work Permits. Can't live well as a teacher etc etc. Well may I suggest if the grass is so green elsewhere go, perhaps just go home to your own Country. Help your fellow Country men. Especially perhaps the ones who did not get a chance to travel. So go, because Thailand offers you one fabulous thing, there is no requirement for an exis visa. I suggest all you unhappy people hurry up to the airport and make sure you book a flight before all the others in the mass exodus. But if you decide to stay on stop moaning.

I agree, everyone that doesn't like Thailand - JUST GO HOME!!!!!

Surprised no one thought of that idea before.

[Samuian]

Strangely they give free tourist visas with one hand, and then they go ahead and collect increased fees for work permits with the other hand.

Just one more clue that says Thailand doesn't want long timers, but only short timers and big spenders.

The taxes my employer pay's for me, the fee for the WP,

insurance, visa etc. if it raises to some 200 € per year will certainly-

and it's a Thai-Company, but requested my support, so they

will pay!

I don't know what is al this moaning about!

[tutsiwarrior]

professional expatriates working in Thailand will not be affected by the increase as these expenses are always covered by the employer. The government ministry that issues the permit realizes this and does not expect any repercussions from what they view are 'legitimate' expatriate workers, i.e., those working for large MNCs and those who have been hired by large local organizations.

Those that are affected - the self employed, English teachers, etc - the thais don't care about. The analogy of the free spending tourist vs. the permanent expat with a family is cogent. In my own personal case I wouldn't work in Thailand unless I was on a full expatriate package that is usually offered to people in my line of work as engineers/consultants. As I have a family and intend to permanently reside here I would not voluntarily complicate my circumstances by being further marginalized as an English teacher or a small businessman...more power to those who have the courage to do so...

[Geekfreaklover]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

This is really interesting, because if you've ever spent time sitting in the work permit office (shock of shocks, I actually did the paperwork for mine by myself!) you'd really want to know what these supposed expenses are. What's annoying about this is not that you have to pay more for the document - yes, inflation affects everything and price increases are to be expected - but that this is another prime example of beaurocracy inventing the need for itself.

There are surplus employees doing surplus paperwork to be signed by surplus officials with surplus automobile allowances. Come on, let's not be so self-deluded to think that a handful of expats are powering the Thai economy, nor that the thoughts or opinions of said group would be considered in this sort of decision.

If you want to be upset or fed up and ready to leave because of something, how about monstrous beaurocracy mercilessly reproducing and feeding itself off a base of hard-working 'producers' about whom it has no concern?

It's not actually like this everywhere, after all.

This is so true.

I have done all my paperwork in three different provinces in Thailand and should point out the office of labour and employment in each of thoses provinces has been grossly over-staffed and normally provides insufficent service. They seem to create problems in order to have something to do, or to make them seem important !! - They should take a leaf out of the immigration offices that at least follow the immigration law. The labour office makes it up as they go along

Edited September 1, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[chlear909]

Massive fee hikes for work permits mooted

New work permit fees will be announced on September 13

PHUKET: -- The Phuket Gazette has learned that recent rumors of substantial increases in work permit fees may be well-founded. Discussions are underway in the Department of Employment that could once again lead to massive hikes in these annual fees.

The current fee for a new work permit, or renewal of a one-year permit, is 3,000 baht.

The office of Thanawan Tongsukchote, head of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office, confirmed to the Gazette this morning that an increase in the fees is indeed "under consideration". And a hike of some magnitude is a foregone conclusion as the office says it will be advising permit holders to renew their permits before September 13 when the new fees will be announced.

"We cannot yet confirm by how much the fees will be 'adjusted' as discussions are ongoing and a number of factors at play in the decision are still being considered," the Office says.

The last hike in work permit fees occurred in September 2002, delivering an impressive 200% hike, an event that triggered lively and colorful comments on ThaiVisa.Com, host to Thailand's largest English-language Web forum. Some recent comments in that forum, albeit from sources undisclosed and/or unofficial, foreshadow this month's hike as likely to be something well over 100%.

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-09-01

I worked there 7 years recently without one .95% of the teachers do without at all the private schools.no tefl tesl or any of that malarchy.the students wont stand for that oficious stuff etc..without illegal english teachers thailand would be done.the usual dum show.

itll be cool if they throw all us out now ,,any body who could stay somehow,and its always doable, would get 1000 bhat an hour.its pretty fun actually but the tye and heat are a drawback.im sure we'll see some comments here by people who never really did it day in and day out for years.

Edited September 1, 2009 by chlear909

[chlear909]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

Since first joinng this Web site I have been amazed at just how much everyone moans. And then moans more again and again. To many of you are sounding so miserable and fed up here. Price Hikes for Work Permits. Can't live well as a teacher etc etc. Well may I suggest if the grass is so green elsewhere go, perhaps just go home to your own Country. Help your fellow Country men. Especially perhaps the ones who did not get a chance to travel. So go, because Thailand offers you one fabulous thing, there is no requirement for an exis visa. I suggest all you unhappy people hurry up to the airport and make sure you book a flight before all the others in the mass exodus. But if you decide to stay on stop moaning.

I agree, everyone that doesn't like Thailand - JUST GO HOME!!!!!

Surprised no one thought of that idea before.

ha ha say that to your african next door in baltimore,smart comodore

[moo9]

What's the hype about. It is still a reasonable fee. Nothing in life gets cheaper!