Deny or confirm what?

The pipeline nonsense? Not until you come up with something solid, like some more Michael Moore stuff.

Why don't you do something constructive? The JFK assassination conspiracy has been dormant for awhile.

Actually the "pipeline requests" were around long before 9/11

As for Moore.....Lets not even discuss the idiot

Roger wasn't that bad when acting as James Bond!

I'm not sure that I agree with that.

neither do i. i thinks we have to teach that Neverdie a lesson!

We - Western civilization - are in Afghanistan for the same reason we were in Iraq, Panama, Vietnam. Poland, Russia, ww1, Mexico, the wars of the Roses and Jenkin's Ear, and the Crusades. We are in wars because we love to hate and kill.And Jesus wept.

Deny or confirm what?

The pipeline nonsense? Not until you come up with something solid, like some more Michael Moore stuff.

Why don't you do something constructive? The JFK assassination conspiracy has been dormant for awhile.

Why don't you come up with a valid reason to illegally invade a country?

Deny or confirm what?

The pipeline nonsense? Not until you come up with something solid, like some more Michael Moore stuff.

Why don't you do something constructive? The JFK assassination conspiracy has been dormant for awhile.

Why don't you come up with a valid reason to illegally invade a country?

How about if that country was harboring an organization that had murdered nearly 3,000 people in a terrorist action, most of them your citizens, and refused to turn the ringleader over for prosecution?

We entered WWII because the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor and killed fewer than were killed at the Twin Towers.

Now what would you have done if you had been the US President on 9/12/01?

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

Do you think it is possible for someone to be brainwashed by conspiracy theories?

How about if that country was harboring an organization that had murdered nearly 3,000 people in a terrorist action, most of them your citizens, and refused to turn the ringleader over for prosecution?

I see......So now that the USA has killed hundreds of thousands of bystanders in that pursuit.....what is that called?

Im sure those killed felt as if it was a terrorist act upon them. He11 there is a good chance most of them did not even know the reason nor the story behind it.

If the occupied country now sends you a letter demanding you turn over the ringleader responsible for that will you? Can you?

If not is that a legitimate reason for them to come here in search of him? Killing hundreds of thousands of bystanders while doing so? Would that be ok then with you? By your statement above I have to assume it would be.

Deny or confirm what?

The pipeline nonsense? Not until you come up with something solid, like some more Michael Moore stuff.

Why don't you do something constructive? The JFK assassination conspiracy has been dormant for awhile.

Why don't you come up with a valid reason to illegally invade a country?

How about if that country was harboring an organization that had murdered nearly 3,000 people in a terrorist action, most of them your citizens, and refused to turn the ringleader over for prosecution?

You ought to be careful where you go with that argument. Your government allowed Noraid to raise funds for the Provisional IRA in the USA for years. Those funds bought guns and bombs that were used against the citizens and military of one of your staunchest allies.

I see......So now that the USA has killed hundreds of thousands of bystanders in that pursuit........

That's a lie.

Links to objective websites have been provided on this thread that show just over 100,000 have been killed since March 2003 in Iraq and over 90% those since 2004 have been killed by other muslims, not the USA. Add in Afghanistan numbers doesn't change it by much.

Links to objective websites have been provided on this thread that show just over 100,000 have been killed since March 2003 in Iraq and over 90% those since 2004 have been killed by other muslims, not the USA. Add in Afghanistan numbers doesn't change it by much.

You say that with an air of superiority that even those vastly reduced numbers are acceptable? Sad thought......

How about this....We just say dead humans...not type or race or who killed who. Just say dead humans?

About 251 times as many people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq than in the ghastly attacks of September 11, 2001. More than 108 times as many people have been killed in these wars and occupations than in all terrorist attacks in the world from 1993-2004. The 2004 report showed terrorism at an all-time high, and after numerous experts suggested that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were fuelling the increase, subsequent reports have remained classified.

As for objective links....who decides that .....you?

Personally I have no problem with this site & its owners.

http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html

But there are many others & still the numbers do not seem small or trite to those who lost their lives or the lives of their loved ones. You seem to constantly dodge the one fact that I present in almost all of my replies & that is the deaths of innocents.

Folks who live a hair out of the stone age & have little or no knowledge of any atrocities committed by a handful. Nor the resulting hundred thousand foreigners with guns, bombs,missiles etc trespassing on their lands & killing & destroying as they see fit.

New & well worth the watch if you have the time & an open mind. Very well done series.

Here is #1 there are 12 parts in all

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

Do you intend answering my question? What would you have done on 9/12/01?

All you have come up with so far is the pipeline, beard and burkha theories. How about a little serious input from you on the subject?

As for objective links....who decides that .....you?

Personally I have no problem with this site & its owners.

http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html

Flying:

Since you have decided your link is an objective one, let's examine their methodolgy of calculating deaths in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

__________________________________________

"15] Iraqi civilians killed: Based on this study [pdf], published in the British medical journal The Lancet in October 2006. The study concluded that at least 392,979 Iraqi civilians had been killed in the occupation, in addition to deaths expected from Iraq's normal death rate, through July 2006. The study's mid-point estimate was 654,965, and its high estimate was 942,636. U.S. authorities, including President Bush himself, have loudly complained that the study is based on "flawed methodology" and "pretty well discredited," but as often happens when Bush speaks, that's simply untrue. The study was conducted by Johns Hopkins University, and used standard, widely accepted, peer-reviewed scientific methodology. Explained very briefly, Iraqi respondants in numerous randomly selected locations were asked about recent deaths in their households, and family members were able to show a death certificate to document 80% of the deaths they described. Results from these interviews were extrapolated nationwide, the same way political opinion polls extrapolate a few hundred interviews to reflect nationwide opinions. It's the same method used by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control to estimate deaths from disease outbreak anywhere in the world, the same method routinely trusted by the U.S. and U.K. when counting deaths from warfare, civil unrest, or other situations anywhere in the world. From the study's lowest estimate of 392,979 deaths occurring over the first 40 months of occupation, we have extended this rate of civilian deaths (9,824 deaths per month) over subsequent months of the occupation since the study was published."

_______________________________________________

As I understand what they have done is take an "estimate" of the number of civilian casualties from a medical journal, added in an estimate of the deaths from normal causes, then randomly interviewed a few select households for anybody that might have been killed, requested and received some verifications of these deaths, added them to the total and did all this in either October or July 2006. They then took an average of the first 40 months of the "occupation" and extended this figure throughout the life of the war.

All they can really tell you is some people died from both the war and natural causes but really have no idea how many as they haven't even taken into account the slow down of the war over the past two years. They also have provided no figures for those that have been killed by Islamic terrorists and, equally, have no real knowledge as to how many of the deceased were in the Iraqi military to begin with. This study is so flawed it is almost laughable.

________________________________________________

Now to the Afghanistan study:

"[3] Afghan civilians killed: Based on estimate and tracking by Dr. Herold, as detailed at his website. For casualties since Dr. Herold's last update in July 2004, we've made a crude guess based on the average of 72 monthly deaths Dr. Herold recorded among Afghan civilians (with deaths among Taliban and Taliban affiliates included in Afghan civilian casualties) during 2004's first seven months. Dr. Herold's count is 3,485, and our extrapolation adds another 4,104 deaths, from the end of Dr. Herold's tally through the end of April 2009."

_________________________________________________

All you have to read is this statement in order to throw it to the wind...(with deaths among Taliban and Taliban affiliates included in Afghan civilian casualties).

They are including the deaths of the Taliban and Taliban affiliates in their civilian death counts.

A very good site, indeed.

Edit in: I also notice the ACLU has a banner on this mom and pop site. Now that's a ringing endorsement.

A very good site, indeed.

How about this....We just say dead humans...not type or race or who killed who. Just say dead humans?

Just cant wrap your head around that eh?

Does not matter what site...what number above 1 is used. The ends never did nor will they ever justify the means.

Go watch at least a few of the Superpower reels & tell us what you think.

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

Do you intend answering my question? What would you have done on 9/12/01?

All you have come up with so far is the pipeline, beard and burkha theories. How about a little serious input from you on the subject?

Perhaps more significantly, what would one have done on 9/11 instead of continuing to read a story to a class of children.

You support Dubbya's actions.....and Dubbya is an idiot. It says alot.

Heck, alot of the US voted Dubya in....TWICE!!!!! THAT says alot!!!!!

Flying:

You threw that site under the bus rather quickly.

Edit in: Added an addressee since Harcourt hs blasted the Americans yet again.

Flying:

You threw that site under the bus rather quickly.

Edit in: Added an addressee since Harcourt hs blasted the Americans yet again.

Silly boy it is you & your assumptions backed by thin air I threw under the bus.

What I did say & you can go back & read it....oh wait I will make it easier for you.....

Does not matter what site...what number above 1 is used. The ends never did nor will they ever justify the means.

Kow Jai Mai?

What number is low enough for you?

Will you dispute the Dept Of Defense when they say over 5000 US Soldiers dead?

Do you need to stand at Dover Air Force Base & count the remains of sons & daughters?

Would you say the ratio is at least 1/1? Is 10,000 dead humans do-able for you? 20-50-100k?

Will any link or number by any source at all satisfy you?

What is it your trying to say anyway? Because for the life of me I see no stance on your part at all really I dont.

So how about it Chuck do you give a fuc_k?...at all?

I'm sorry but you & folks like you put the ugly in the term ugly american

You would not know a patriot if he kicked you in the rump.

Because the things your forefathers fought for are the things you are in fact tearing down

We as a country have had too many people in & out of government demanding that government should guarantee security rather than liberty

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

Do you intend answering my question? What would you have done on 9/12/01?

All you have come up with so far is the pipeline, beard and burkha theories. How about a little serious input from you on the subject?

Perhaps more significantly, what would one have done on 9/11 instead of continuing to read a story to a class of children.

You support Dubbya's actions.....and Dubbya is an idiot. It says alot.

OK, how about answering your own question? Imagine it's a perfectly normal Tuesday morning during the first week of school. You are the POTUS sitting in a classroom reading a book to small children and one of your aides comes in and whispers in your ear that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center and it doesn't look like an accident. You, Harcourt, change into your super hero tights, fly out the window, and fly straight to the al Qaeda hideout to warn them of the impending American attack, right? OK, seriously, what would you have done? Stop reading right there and excuse yourself from the children telling them nothing but knowing how vitally important it is that you get to the bottom of those plane crashes ASAP? What could he do? Nothing. Bush very well might be an idiot, but as far as you are concerned you shouldn't throw stones while living in that glass house of yours.

Kow Jai Mai?

What number is low enough for you?

Will you dispute the Dept Of Defense when they say over 5000 US Soldiers dead?

Do you need to stand at Dover Air Force Base & count the remains of sons & daughters?

Would you say the ratio is at least 1/1? Is 10,000 dead humans do-able for you? 20-50-100k?

Will any link or number by any source at all satisfy you?

I would be more satisfied if instead of hiding behind your outrage over the death of one even person (which is so fake and transparent it's ridiculous) you just admitted that you quoted bullshit numbers instead of showing once again your disdain for the military by claiming they killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people when they haven't come close. Why not show some fuc_king outrage for the guy who tried to blow up a plane on Christmas day killing over 200 people? Or the Taliban for throwing acid in the faces of school girls because they dare to learn? Or al Qaeda for all the bombings they have carried out or inspired others to do around the globe? How many deaths is enough? You're not living in some fantasy land utopia. If the US, UK and other countries were all at home snug in bed, not killing anyone, do you really think the world would be at peace? Do you really think the Taliban, al Qaeda, etc would stop killing people? Don't forget, we weren't in Iraq or Afghanistan when 9/11 happened. Wake up already.

Stop reading right there and excuse yourself from the children telling them nothing but knowing how vitally important it is that you get to the bottom of those plane crashes ASAP? What could he do? Nothing. Bush very well might be an idiot, but as far as you are concerned you shouldn't throw stones while living in that glass house of yours.

Puleeze .....The commander in Chief is told America is allegedly under attack & he sits?

None knew the scope so it was not like leaving to get to the bottom of a few plane crashes ...what he did not know the scope of.

But yes perhaps excusing himself for presidential duties may have been the logical thing to do.

Unless of course it came as no surprise?

I mean the patriot act <sic> was obviously written beforehand as it was introduced only days after the attack.

A giant piece of legislation that strips civil liberties from US citizens is not written in a few days.

Do not forget what his father Bush Sr. wanted & is on record saying....A new world order.

Do not forget that Rockefeller said all they need is the right major crisis....A New Pearl Harbour

You are joking right?

If this is your true believe then you are a perfect example of a person "Brainwashed" by the MSM.

Do you intend answering my question? What would you have done on 9/12/01?

All you have come up with so far is the pipeline, beard and burkha theories. How about a little serious input from you on the subject?

Perhaps more significantly, what would one have done on 9/11 instead of continuing to read a story to a class of children.

You support Dubbya's actions.....and Dubbya is an idiot. It says alot.

OK, how about answering your own question? Imagine it's a perfectly normal Tuesday morning during the first week of school. You are the POTUS sitting in a classroom reading a book to small children and one of your aides comes in and whispers in your ear that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center and it doesn't look like an accident. You, Harcourt, change into your super hero tights, fly out the window, and fly straight to the al Qaeda hideout to warn them of the impending American attack, right? OK, seriously, what would you have done? Stop reading right there and excuse yourself from the children telling them nothing but knowing how vitally important it is that you get to the bottom of those plane crashes ASAP? What could he do? Nothing. Bush very well might be an idiot, but as far as you are concerned you shouldn't throw stones while living in that glass house of yours.

Again, you prevaricate. You concede Bush is an idiot (may well be), but still defend his innapropriate inaction after an incident that was so momentous and that has resulted in further catastrophe.

That, as I said before, says alot about you....... and your stance and your arguments.

Categorically, once and for all, list everything I have ever written that shows me to be an idiot.

Quote even one thing, and back up your allegation of my idiocy. Be careful now....for once, reply directly and pertinantly, and prove your point, otherwise, shut TF up with your feeble insults.

you just admitted that you quoted bullshit numbers instead of showing once again your disdain for the military

Wake up already

Man your reading comprehension is not even that of a grunt is it?

As for the military story give it up already go back & read the horse analogy again & concentrate

Ummm yes you are the one talking in your sleep

Flying:

You threw that site under the bus rather quickly.

Edit in: Added an addressee since Harcourt hs blasted the Americans yet again.

Silly boy it is you & your assumptions backed by thin air I threw under the bus.

What I did say & you can go back & read it....oh wait I will make it easier for you.....

Does not matter what site...what number above 1 is used. The ends never did nor will they ever justify the means.

Kow Jai Mai?

What number is low enough for you?

Will you dispute the Dept Of Defense when they say over 5000 US Soldiers dead?

Do you need to stand at Dover Air Force Base & count the remains of sons & daughters?

Would you say the ratio is at least 1/1? Is 10,000 dead humans do-able for you? 20-50-100k?

Will any link or number by any source at all satisfy you?

What is it your trying to say anyway? Because for the life of me I see no stance on your part at all really I dont.

So how about it Chuck do you give a fuc_k?...at all?

I'm sorry but you & folks like you put the ugly in the term ugly american

You would not know a patriot if he kicked you in the rump.

Because the things your forefathers fought for are the things you are in fact tearing down

We as a country have had too many people in & out of government demanding that government should guarantee security rather than liberty

It does not matter which site, in your mind, because most of your sites have been proven to be somewhat ridiculous and untrustworthy. However, to those of us who tend to disagree with your stance on everything military, it means a great deal. When you quote fictional figures without any backup, it brings to mind that old saying...."78.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I am truly sorry you think I am an ugly American. If voicing my opinion and disagreeing with you and others of your ilk on this forum qualifies me for that distinction, then it is a cross I will have to bear. Rather proudly, I might add.

Having been part of either the military or the right wing military/industrial conspiracy for the past 30 years or so, it is likely that I am able to recognize a patriot when I see one. I do not recognize one in your writings. I'm even unable to figure out what country you are a citizen of....not that I really care.

I'm certain this post will bring on another personal attack, calling me all sorts of names. Liberals resort to that tactic when they have no other positions to argue. I'm just a Mad Hatter Tea Party'er at heart.

............I'm certain this post will bring on another personal attack, calling me all sorts of names. Liberals resort to that tactic when they have no other positions to argue. I'm just a Mad Hatter Tea Party'er at heart.

Actually, it's your right wing buddy that resorts to inane and peurile insults.

Do all you liberals answer each other's questions?

I ask because both Harcourt and Flying have answered, somewhat, a question I put to Alex Lah. Mr. Lah seems to be in the background somewhere.

I say both of you answered the question in a "somewhat" manner by throwing that old chestnut out about GWB in the classroom when it is whispered in his ear the US is under attack.

I suppose he could have jumped up from his chair, shouted "Run for your lives, the sky is falling" and dashed from the room. That reaction would have really been something the children could pass on to their grandchildren and might have been the action Al Gore would have taken. That would certainly have been the left wing knee jerk response.

My question is, and has been, what response should the US have taken on 9/12/01?

What would the liberal tag team have done?

I'm even unable to figure out what country you are a citizen of....not that I really care.

I'm certain this post will bring on another personal attack, calling me all sorts of names. Liberals resort to that tactic when they have no other positions to argue.

Again & as usual no substance as to the subject at hand.

Still I have no idea as to what your stance during all these posts are.

So basically are you a federalist? A blind faith type? You basically agree with all that has been going on in both

Iraq & Afghanistan? Or even within the US? The Patriot Act? The Financial Crisis? All good then?

I have a feeling the fact that you cannot figure what country I am a citizen of either means you are joking/fishing or you & I must be from different ones.

Liberal? If you mean a dem your way off the mark. If you mean like the revolution of 1776 your closer.

But as for tactics when they have no position to argue ....again I have to say that I have yet to see you or your racist buddy state a position to argue in the first place. You two constantly say this or that is bogus but offer no truths at all.

Basically all I get from you two is baa baa blind faith.

My question is, and has been, what response should the US have taken on 9/12/01?

You would treat the symptom instead of the cause?