Mr. Flying:

I really have a couple of things I need to do around the house.

Can I be excused for a few hours?

I really have a couple of things I need to do around the house.

There is a good analogy there.....But it would take years not hours

you just admitted that you quoted bullshit numbers instead of showing once again your disdain for the military

Wake up already

Man your reading comprehension is not even that of a grunt is it?

As for the military story give it up already go back & read the horse analogy again & concentrate

Ummm yes you are the one talking in your sleep

The problem isn't my comprehension skills. It's your writing skills. You consistently call American troops stupid and killers of hundreds of thousands then claim you have nothing against the troops, only their "puppet masters". Just out of curiosity, what is your native language?

Categorically, once and for all, list everything I have ever written that shows me to be an idiot.

Quote even one thing, and back up your allegation of my idiocy. Be careful now....for once, reply directly and pertinantly, and prove your point, otherwise, shut TF up with your feeble insults.

As if I have that much time to list your full accomplishments. I'll give you two though:

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

It was justified and no one has ever said it wasn't - except a few idiots. Guess that makes you an idiot.

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

Israel IS NOT committing genocide against the Palestinians. Where are the death camps and mass graves filled with the Palestinians? You must be an idiot not to know what genocide is - especially at your advanced age.

Just as you say you will ignore me, then flip flop and say you will do as you please, I too will do as I please. I WILL NOT "shut TF up" as long as people like you continue to post total bullshit and expect it your special right to go unchallenged. [btw - the accepted abbreviation is <deleted>. ]

Now, what are the chances that you will answer any of the questions posed to you? For example, WHAT would you have done in Bush's place on 9/11? There's no real right or wrong answer so you can't screw up too much. When you're done with that, scroll through the last few pages. I'm sure there are plenty more questions you've avoided. You know why some people refuse to answer questions? Because they're idiots and don't have an answer.

So basically are you a federalist? A blind faith type? You basically agree with all that has been going on in both

Iraq & Afghanistan? Or even within the US? The Patriot Act? The Financial Crisis? All good then?

I've read the Patriot Act of 2001. Have you or any of your liberal buddies on here? I'm sure you have so can you please find the part that bothers you so much and copy/paste it here? No, I'm not asking for a link to an article in the Huffington Post. Who knows, if it's something I missed, maybe I'll even agree with you that it's bad.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107...p/~c107C1wlIu::

I guess this part is bad also?

SEC. 102. SENSE OF CONGRESS CONDEMNING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS.

• (a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:
  

• • (1) Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia play a vital role in our Nation and are entitled to nothing less than the full rights of every American.
    

• • (2) The acts of violence that have been taken against Arab and Muslim Americans since the September 11, 2001, attacks against the United States should be and are condemned by all Americans who value freedom.
    

• • (3) The concept of individual responsibility for wrongdoing is sacrosanct in American society, and applies equally to all religious, racial, and ethnic groups.
    

• • (4) When American citizens commit acts of violence against those who are, or are perceived to be, of Arab or Muslim descent, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
    

• • (5) Muslim Americans have become so fearful of harassment that many Muslim women are changing the way they dress to avoid becoming targets.
    

• • (6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing.
    

• B- SENSE OF CONGRESS- It is the sense of Congress that--
  

• • (1) the civil rights and civil liberties of all Americans, including Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia, must be protected, and that every effort must be taken to preserve their safety;
    

• • (2) any acts of violence or discrimination against any Americans be condemned; and
    

• • (3) the Nation is called upon to recognize the patriotism of fellow citizens from all ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds.
    

It really does not matter what I think I would have done or what I think Bush should have done on the day or the 12th. We will most likely never know what was known and what not. But there are some very interesting questions that remain unanswered and I am just surprised that this whole debacle has lost the interest of many people. As long as it not in their backyard and they are not (directly) exposed to all the atrocities and

confronted with the pain and sadness of this whole never ending war on terror and it's victims (both sides), I guess nowadays people are too busy

not loosing their job, house.

In my HC there is growing resistance against these occupations and the money that is wasted by what seems more and more that troops are there to protect the interests of a few big conglomerates with the excuse that they are there to rebuild (what they destroyed before) and to "free" the country from a few radicals ragheads hiding in caves.

If all that money spend on destructive weaponry used was spend in a positive way I believe that would do much more to reduce the poverty and would actually show what could be achieved when providing support to make this world a better place for all.

I've read the Patriot Act of 2001.

Yes you read 342 pages of the patriot act did you?

Well you did better than all the Senate as they were given 15 minutes on their Intranet before being asked to vote on it.

And with NO debate on the floor about it.

Well the next question would be how much of it did you understand?

Lastly having claimed you read the whole document I ask....You are fine with it? You do not feel it trespasses on any of your liberties?

Categorically, once and for all, list everything I have ever written that shows me to be an idiot.

Quote even one thing, and back up your allegation of my idiocy. Be careful now....for once, reply directly and pertinantly, and prove your point, otherwise, shut TF up with your feeble insults.

As if I have that much time to list your full accomplishments. I'll give you two though:

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

It was justified and no one has ever said it wasn't - except a few idiots. Guess that makes you an idiot.

1> So, I'm an idiot because you say so? Tut tut tut. You will have to do better than that. Continue with this kind of "proof" and you will continue to prove your own level of intelligence.

America seems to think it's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

Israel IS NOT committing genocide against the Palestinians. Where are the death camps and mass graves filled with the Palestinians? You must be an idiot not to know what genocide is - especially at your advanced age.

Just as you say you will ignore me, then flip flop and say you will do as you please, I too will do as I please. I WILL NOT "shut TF up" as long as people like you continue to post total bullshit and expect it your special right to go unchallenged. [btw - the accepted abbreviation is <deleted>. ]

2> I do not understand your response in how it relates to the quote you posted. Nonetheless, I will assume you made a mistake and thought you were posting a different quote. I won't make a song and dance about your mistake. I don't need to point out spelling mistakes or other keyboard mistakes to make my point.

Those of lesser ability do.

So to reply to what I assume was what you were quoting when you asked the questions: Does genocide neccessarily involve death camps? Are you sure YOU know what "genocide" means? Regardless, again, you define "idiot" in your own way so it is not a "proof", and furthermore, in this case an idiot is (according to you) one who, especially at an age simmilar to your own, does not know the definition of the word "genocide". You think the absence of death camps proves the absence of genocide. You have, by your own definition, proved yourself an idiot.

Again, you need to do better than that to prove my idiot status..

Now, what are the chances that you will answer any of the questions posed to you? For example, WHAT would you have done in Bush's place on 9/11? There's no real right or wrong answer so you can't screw up too much. When you're done with that, scroll through the last few pages. I'm sure there are plenty more questions you've avoided. You know why some people refuse to answer questions? Because they're idiots and don't have an answer.

3>As one that has not answered many questions, you have provided another excellent self incrimination.

I will refrain from name-calling....you have done a good enough job yourself.

I've read the Patriot Act of 2001.

Yes you read 342 pages of the patriot act did you?

Well you did better than all the Senate as they were given 15 minutes on their Intranet before being asked to vote on it.

And with NO debate on the floor about it.

Well the next question would be how much of it did you understand?

Lastly having claimed you read the whole document I ask....You are fine with it? You do not feel it trespasses on any of your liberties?

Four questions for me? Ooo. Well, I'm not going to keep answering questions here from people who refuse to answer any themselves. For the 2nd time, have you read the Patriot Act? OK, we can all guess the answer is NO. That's part of why I posted a link to the text, so you can finally read it for yourself after 8 years of complaining about it. The other reason is so that you can copy/paste the part that you find offensive. Please don't feel too ashamed for voicing an opinion about a document that you never read. People do it all the time (on the left AND right). Now you can set it right by finally reading it. At least I have said I am willing to change my mind if you or anyone else can find something in it that I agree is wrong. I guess I'll have to wait a long time for that.

On a related note, It is very interesting that people who babble on about "sheeple" and brainwashing by the gov't or MSM will go on and on parroting some line about how bad something is (in this case, the Patriot Act) when they haven't even read it themselves. Sure people can be told what to think by a gov't or media outlet. They can also be told what to think by left-wing nut job conspiracy theory peddlers.

3>As one that has not answered many questions, you have provided another excellent self incrimination.

I will refrain from name-calling....you have done a good enough job yourself.

Yes, I posted your same reply twice instead of the idiotic bit of yours about Israel committing genocide against the Palestinians. It was the line right below the one I posted twice. Oooo. You got me.

Amazing that with all your rambling you still haven't answered any questions yet. You want me to PM whatshisname and ask him to return the brain you two share? Actually, don't worry about it. I don't need to hear your answers. They would probably be poorly thought out and totally void of all logic, common sense, and facts. In short, the same as you usually post.

Yet AGAIN he manages to not-reply.

He bores me now.

Yet again he manages to post a quote that has nothing to do with his response.

My question is, and has been, what response should the US have taken on 9/12/01?

You would treat the symptom instead of the cause?

Clarification, please?

The symptom on 9/11 was radical Islam was mightily upset with the US. The result of the symptom on 9/11 was the Twin Towers.

You will likely say the US was the sole reason of the cause since we are not a generous nation, are self-centered, war mongering, suicidal maniacs and don't play well with others. Your causes may vary.

Do I have that about right?

It really does not matter what I think I would have done or what I think Bush should have done on the day or the 12th. We will most likely never know what was known and what not. But there are some very interesting questions that remain unanswered and I am just surprised that this whole debacle has lost the interest of many people. As long as it not in their backyard and they are not (directly) exposed to all the atrocities and

confronted with the pain and sadness of this whole never ending war on terror and it's victims (both sides), I guess nowadays people are too busy

not loosing their job, house.

In my HC there is growing resistance against these occupations and the money that is wasted by what seems more and more that troops are there to protect the interests of a few big conglomerates with the excuse that they are there to rebuild (what they destroyed before) and to "free" the country from a few radicals ragheads hiding in caves.

If all that money spend on destructive weaponry used was spend in a positive way I believe that would do much more to reduce the poverty and would actually show what could be achieved when providing support to make this world a better place for all.

Mr. Lah:

Let me get this right.

You are saying you don't know what you would have done, nor do you know what should have been done on 9/12/01?

Thank you for being honest with your response.

Now for clarification, can you please explain what you mean about "growing resistance to these occupations"? Which occupations, specifically, are targeted by this growing resentment? Which conglomerates are being protected by the troops?

As far as rebuilding Afghanistan is concerned, my knowledge of the country was that it had pretty well been destroyed by the Russians, war lords and Taliban before the US went into the country. It was nothing but a shell after the long war with Russia. The US supported the Afghanis in their war with Russia but then made the cardinal mistake of abandoning the country when the Russians left in 1989. This is when we should have stepped up and helped them rebuild. We didn't and the country was then taken over by the Taliban and governed by the most brutal interpretation of Shariah law. Men, women and children were treated as nothing and both corporal and capital punishment were meted out for any offense the Taliban deemed to have been committed. The Taliban were cruel masters.

They were well funded with the poppy fields, along with money being provided by Bin Laden for protection for himself and his Al-Qaeda fighters. Then along came 9/11 and the serenity for the Taliban and AQ became a little tenuous. Bin Laden misjudged the US, and more importantly GWB. He assumed he was safely tucked away in his villa in Afghanistan. After all, the US had never really retaliated for any of the prior attacks he had made against us. He thought we would launch a few Tomahawks into the desert, kill a few camels and millions of sand fleas and he would be forgotten until he decided to strike again. He assumed Bush would do nothing more than Clinton had done before him. Osama's dream scenario was shattered when the US, along with the Northern Alliance, joined forces and began running down the Taliban and AQ.

Osama escaped into the Tora Bora area and eventually into Pakistan, where he remains today, assuming he is still alive. It was the fault of our Pentagon leadership that he escaped. we didn't have enough troops on the ground when he first went into the Tora Bora region and he slipped through our fingers.

We compounded our mistakes thereafter by not committing enough troops to quell any uprising caused by the return of the Taliban and an insurgency arose. The Taliban and AQ still come across the Pakistani border at will and cause some distress, but nothing like before.

The US has always been great on the battlefield and not so great at keeping the peace, but we can rebuild like crazy. As a couple of examples, think Japan and Germany post-WWII. We are doing very similar work in Afghanistan at this time. Our Army Corps of Engineers are building bridges, hospitals, schools, roads, water and power sources and other infrastructure. There are no pipelines on the agenda, however.

The Chinese are actively pursuing construction contracts. I found an interesting article from the WSJ about building a road:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124545705106832957.html

One of the more interesting paragraphs was this one...

__________________________________________

"It is very safe to conduct the project in Afghanistan because the Americans are guarding us," says Pan Qifang, board secretary of Jiangxi Copper.

__________________________________________

Another link for our rebuilding efforts:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130209&page=1

__________________________________________

Will our efforts to turn Afghanistan around pan out? I really don't know as the final result will only be known if and when the Afghani people decide they no longer want the Taliban to rule them and can come up with some sort of representative government. They will then have to step up and be responsible for their own security and safety.

Do they want the US to leave? Probably many of them do. However, I would expect more than a few Afghanis feel the same way Mr. Pan Qifang feels about our presence. He seems happy to have us stick around for a while longer.

This is quite lengthy and will probably remain unread by some of you. It should give you plenty of ammunition to attack me, though.

My question is, and has been, what response should the US have taken on 9/12/01?

You would treat the symptom instead of the cause?

Clarification, please?

The symptom on 9/11 was radical Islam was mightily upset with the US. The result of the symptom on 9/11 was the Twin Towers.

You will likely say the US was the sole reason of the cause since we are not a generous nation, are self-centered, war mongering, suicidal maniacs and don't play well with others. Your causes may vary.

Do I have that about right?

right you are Chuck! radical Islam and its leader Osama bin-Laden were mightily upset for many reasons. they hated the thought that Americans can freely buy Bud Lite, getting mortgages and running up credit card debt with the option to declare bankruptcy and not paying back the money owed. radical Islam did not approve that american female soldiers were allowed to drive cars on the "holy soil" of Saudi Arabia. the initial plan of radical islamists was to bomb the illicit whiskey distilleries in Kentucky but to their dismay they couldn't find maps showing the locations. all this (plus an additonal long list of grievances) drove radical Islam mad and to commit the sep 11 terrorist act.

that radical Islam had different reasons are of course nothing but pure lies! why would Osama bin-Laden, who's mother is a Palestinian, care about what was going on for nearly half a century in the "promised land" which was handed over by the LORD himself with the suggestion "slaughter the Philistines"? he couldn't care less that american taxpayers are supporting every year with billions in cash and weaponry to steal land, kill, maim and oppress a whole people.

..."why would Osama bin-Laden, who's mother is a Palestinian"...

_________________________________________________

Osama's mother, Hamida, was a beautiful young Syrian woman who caught Mohammed's fancy late in life. Married at the relatively late age of 22, she had lived a relatively modern lifestyle in Syria, including shopping trips to Damascus. She had an independent streak, and found life within the bin Laden compound confining. She did not like covering her face with a burka, and was scorned by the other wives and ex-wives. By the time Osama was born, she was ostracized by the other women. They referred to her as "the slave," in reference to her resentment of her status. Osama was known by the nickname, "son of the slave."

__________________________________________________

http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/osama.htm

__________________________________________________

Quote: Mr. Lah:

Let me get this right.

You are saying you don't know what you would have done, nor do you know what should have been done on 9/12/01?

No that is not what I said, I said that it does not matter what I (or you) think at this moment as what should/could have been done as the damage is done already.

This damage done is being presented thanks to the Internet and/or investigative reporters or people that want to come clean (so to speak). The growing resistance in my HC is clear as there are more and more people asking for the reason(s) why troops have been send there and why taxpayers money is wasted as the politicians are confronted more and more with contradicting evidence and are asked to come up with their legitimate reasons.

Another great book to read is: Freedom Next Time by John Pilger. It goes into detail how most of the people are being fed propaganda about issues like the wars and some other stuff.

But it might be a bit of a icecold shower for some.........

Well, I'm not going to keep answering questions here from people who refuse to answer any themselves. For the 2nd time, have you read the Patriot Act?

Big Surprise there........

Stop already your full of crap. You never read the patriot Act.

It is not a novel. None read it as such especially someone who cannot comprehend simple postings.

You are as Harcourt said a non-response DOA

No I did not read the act cover to cover as you claim to have.

Instead I had read sections of it that were pointed out by others who brought my attention to it.

Sections that trampled liberties given to us by our forefathers. All in the name of TERROR !!!!

The promise of security

It is exactly as Benjamin Franklin said

Those who would trade their liberty for some temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security.

If you want to defend TPTB's position of occupation then do so.

But dont tell fairy tales about your reading list or resort to racism then hide behind the....Oh I was only joking tactic.

My question is, and has been, what response should the US have taken on 9/12/01?

You would treat the symptom instead of the cause?

Clarification, please?

The symptom on 9/11 was radical Islam was mightily upset with the US. The result of the symptom on 9/11 was the Twin Towers.

You will likely say the US was the sole reason of the cause since we are not a generous nation, are self-centered, war mongering, suicidal maniacs and don't play well with others. Your causes may vary.

Do I have that about right?

Pretty close Chuck

What I am saying is you cannot go through times doing as you please in other countries ( cause) & then have an effect & suddenly say what would you do now.

It has nothing to do with being a generous nation. In many ways you could say we are...when it suits us & as long as they follow the conditions attached. But has it not crossed your mind that 9-11 could have been a retaliation?

I am not saying it was as I am not even satisfied with the official story of the events. But lets say for a moment it is as depicted.

Looking at the history of the US involvement in Iraq, Iran,Kuwait,Saudi Arabia,Pakistan, Afghanistan is it so hard to believe?

As for your original Q about what would be done differently on the morning of 9-12-01

I would have to say at the very least none of the things that were done & probably quite the opposite.

Try to reverse or at least remove the US military industrial complex from the 150 countries around the world & take care of business at home.

I surely would not use the actions of 19 alleged individuals.... to occupy a country & put the US that much closer to complete financial failure.

Lastly tell me for clarity what is it the US is doing there now? I mean I know the story of chasing Bin Laden started back on that morning of 9-12-01

But I also know how we went & stopped & turned to Iraq instead as Saddam had really pissed them off at that time with the audacity to thumb his nose at them regarding oil sales etc.

So years later we now are back at it? Is that it? We are now back to chasing Osama?

Yet his last verified position/sighting was when he stepped out of a cave to make a radio transmission on 12/18/01 at battle of Tora Bora

That area was bombed to hel_l & even the Delta Force claims there is no way he survived.

He has not been heard from since. Not in any verifiable way.

So what or who are we chasing? Just terrorist in general?

I have asked before does the ends justify the means in your opinion?

Your ok with all that is going on there & back in the US now?

If so we really have nothing further to discuss. I respect your right or anyone else's to decide for themselves. As we said before dont have to agree.

It really does not matter what I think I would have done or what I think Bush should have done on the day or the 12th. We will most likely never know what was known and what not. But there are some very interesting questions that remain unanswered and I am just surprised that this whole debacle has lost the interest of many people. As long as it not in their backyard and they are not (directly) exposed to all the atrocities and

confronted with the pain and sadness of this whole never ending war on terror and it's victims (both sides), I guess nowadays people are too busy

not loosing their job, house.

In my HC there is growing resistance against these occupations and the money that is wasted by what seems more and more that troops are there to protect the interests of a few big conglomerates with the excuse that they are there to rebuild (what they destroyed before) and to "free" the country from a few radicals ragheads hiding in caves.

If all that money spend on destructive weaponry used was spend in a positive way I believe that would do much more to reduce the poverty and would actually show what could be achieved when providing support to make this world a better place for all.

Mr. Lah:

Let me get this right.

You are saying you don't know what you would have done, nor do you know what should have been done on 9/12/01?

Thank you for being honest with your response.

Now for clarification, can you please explain what you mean about "growing resistance to these occupations"? Which occupations, specifically, are targeted by this growing resentment? Which conglomerates are being protected by the troops?

I will name a few:

Bechtel

Fluor

Parsons

Shaw Group

SAIC

CH2M Hill

DynCorp

Blackwater

The Louis Berger Group

The Rendon Group

Halliburton

Kellogg

Brown and Root

As far as rebuilding Afghanistan is concerned, my knowledge of the country was that it had pretty well been destroyed by the Russians, war lords and Taliban before the US went into the country. It was nothing but a shell after the long war with Russia.

Does that justify throwing a few more bombs? The country was a ruin already so who cares?

The US supported the Afghanis in their war with Russia but then made the cardinal mistake of abandoning the country when the Russians left in 1989. This is when we should have stepped up and helped them rebuild. We didn't and the country was then taken over by the Taliban and governed by the most brutal interpretation of Shariah law. Men, women and children were treated as nothing and both corporal and capital punishment were meted out for any offense the Taliban deemed to have been committed. The Taliban were cruel masters.

But under the Taliban poppy fields where almost non existing. Who do you think profits most from this opium trade?

They were well funded with the poppy fields, along with money being provided by Bin Laden for protection for himself and his Al-Qaeda fighters. Then along came 9/11 and the serenity for the Taliban and AQ became a little tenuous. Bin Laden misjudged the US, and more importantly GWB. He assumed he was safely tucked away in his villa in Afghanistan. After all, the US had never really retaliated for any of the prior attacks he had made against us. He thought we would launch a few Tomahawks into the desert, kill a few camels and millions of sand fleas and he would be forgotten until he decided to strike again. He assumed Bush would do nothing more than Clinton had done before him. Osama's dream scenario was shattered when the US, along with the Northern Alliance, joined forces and began running down the Taliban and AQ.

The Taliban had been in talks with the US government before 9-11 about building the pipeline through Afganistan. They agreed with the pipeline but not with the conditions attached. They offered to hand them Bin Laden if the US government could provide evidence that BL was personally involved in planning the 9-11 attacks. The US government refused to provide that evidence on the basis it would reveal how they gathered evidence.

Osama escaped into the Tora Bora area and eventually into Pakistan, where he remains today, assuming he is still alive. It was the fault of our Pentagon leadership that he escaped. we didn't have enough troops on the ground when he first went into the Tora Bora region and he slipped through our fingers.

It has been said that French troops were at some point able to take him out but a no go was ordered.

We compounded our mistakes thereafter by not committing enough troops to quell any uprising caused by the return of the Taliban and an insurgency arose. The Taliban and AQ still come across the Pakistani border at will and cause some distress, but nothing like before.

Why do you think the locals where sick and tired of the foreign troops occupying their land and causing many innocent to die to give some support to the Taliban?

The US has always been great on the battlefield and not so great at keeping the peace, but we can rebuild like crazy. As a couple of examples, think Japan and Germany post-WWII. We are doing very similar work in Afghanistan at this time. Our Army Corps of Engineers are building bridges, hospitals, schools, roads, water and power sources and other infrastructure. There are no pipelines on the agenda, however.

There are and you are just ignorant of this fact. Have you ever heard of Cheney's Energy Task Force? I guess not as (most of) this information was and still is being withheld from the public. Do I need to post some pictures of hospitals build with help of your army corps of engineers?

The Chinese are actively pursuing construction contracts. I found an interesting article from the WSJ about building a road:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124545705106832957.html

One of the more interesting paragraphs was this one...

__________________________________________

"It is very safe to conduct the project in Afghanistan because the Americans are guarding us," says Pan Qifang, board secretary of Jiangxi Copper.

__________________________________________

Another link for our rebuilding efforts:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130209&page=1

__________________________________________

Will our efforts to turn Afghanistan around pan out? I really don't know as the final result will only be known if and when the Afghani people decide they no longer want the Taliban to rule them and can come up with some sort of representative government. They will then have to step up and be responsible for their own security and safety.

So do you think that the Northern alliance is giving them a better future?

Do they want the US to leave? Probably many of them do. However, I would expect more than a few Afghanis feel the same way Mr. Pan Qifang feels about our presence. He seems happy to have us stick around for a while longer.

Assumptions.

This is quite lengthy and will probably remain unread by some of you. It should give you plenty of ammunition to attack me, though.

No worries I will always try to discuss in a civil way by asking a few questions.

Take care all!

Alex

Well, I'm not going to keep answering questions here from people who refuse to answer any themselves. For the 2nd time, have you read the Patriot Act?

Big Surprise there........

Stop already your full of crap. You never read the patriot Act.

It is not a novel. None read it as such especially someone who cannot comprehend simple postings.

You are as Harcourt said a non-response DOA

No I did not read the act cover to cover as you claim to have.

Instead I had read sections of it that were pointed out by others who brought my attention to it.

Sections that trampled liberties given to us by our forefathers. All in the name of TERROR !!!!

The promise of security

It is exactly as Benjamin Franklin said

Those who would trade their liberty for some temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security.

If you want to defend TPTB's position of occupation then do so.

But dont tell fairy tales about your reading list or resort to racism then hide behind the....Oh I was only joking tactic.

The Patriot Act turns 8 years old this month. It is hardly a daunting task to read in that amount of time (although I did it back in 2002). I HAVE read it and find no problems with it. You have NOT read it but still have problems with it (you're like the protesters who want to ban films they haven't seen but someone else told them it's bad so it must be). So read it and show me what's wrong with it. I have given you a link to the text. All you have to do is copy/paste the parts you don't like. Or is that asking too much?

The Taliban had been in talks with the US government before 9-11 about building the pipeline through Afganistan. They agreed with the pipeline but not with the conditions attached. They offered to hand them Bin Laden if the US government could provide evidence that BL was personally involved in planning the 9-11 attacks. The US government refused to provide that evidence on the basis it would reveal how they gathered evidence.

Apparently there is no real evidence. At least I don't see any mention of it on the FBI's own wanted poster...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

MURDER OF U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; CONSPIRACY TO MURDER U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; ATTACK ON A FEDERAL FACILITY RESULTING IN DEATH

USAMA BIN LADEN





Aliases:Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin, Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin, The Prince, The Emir, Abu Abdallah, Mujahid Shaykh, Hajj, The Director

<H2>DESCRIPTION</H2>

Date of Birth Used: 1957Hair:BrownPlace of Birth:Saudi ArabiaEyes:BrownHeight:6'4" to 6'6"Sex:MaleWeight:Approximately 160 poundsComplexion:OliveBuild:ThinCitizenship:Saudi ArabianLanguage:Arabic (probably Pashtu)Scars and Marks:None knownRemarks:Bin Laden is left-handed and walks with a cane.

<H2>CAUTION</H2>

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

<H2>REWARD</H2>

The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS

IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION CONCERNING THIS PERSON, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL FBI OFFICE OR THE NEAREST AMERICAN EMBASSY OR CONSULATE.

The Patriot Act turns 8 years old this month. It is hardly a daunting task to read in that amount of time (although I did it back in 2002). I HAVE read it and find no problems with it. You have NOT read it but still have problems with it (you're like the protesters who want to ban films they haven't seen but someone else told them it's bad so it must be). So read it and show me what's wrong with it. I have given you a link to the text. All you have to do is copy/paste the parts you don't like. Or is that asking too much?

Oh stop already your full of sh!t...hardly daunting? You cant even navigate posts here.

You did not read it. It is a maze of legislation. Almost every other section is some amendment to the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. Did you happen to read that cover to cover too? Because if not you know not what you read do you?

You would like to bait those who do actually give a sh!t into educating you? Is that it? If so there are better ways to go about it.

But for now let me humor you & just say the sections I have problems with & there are many. All rub me the wrong way for the same reason. They strip the people of civil liberties granted to us long ago. Now all they need do is say whatever investigation they want to commit is based in suspicion of terrorist activity. They need only say this is pre-emptive & your rights granted to you go out the window. No more due process…No more habeas corpus…no more privacy of your mail/email/bank accounts nada zilch.

They can throw you in jail not because you have been proven guilty of anything but because they think or Claim you may be involved in what they term terrorist activities/suspicions.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) recently issued a report which details how federal agents abused provisions in the Patriot Act, applying them to cases not related to terrorism. In addition, the ACLU found that the Patriot Act has had little tangible effect on the prosecution of terrorist suspects. The government claims it has prosecuted 400 terrorist cases in seven years as a result of the Patriot Act, but the truth, according to the ACLU, is that only 39 of these resulted in actual convictions for terrorism.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/patr...tended_172.html

39 out of 400? So how about the 361 falsely held?

Many sections are filled with vagaries

Sec 204 is great isn’t it? We watched movies as kids of times like these in the future.

How about 206? 210?

312 should be one you really like given your racist tendencies.

But forget it as I said I call BS on your story about reading the Patriot Act cover to cover & being in total agreement.. You have no real interest. I am talking for what?

Bottom line your ok with it all yes?

Patriot act ...no problem?

Afghanistan…No problem?

Gitmo…no problem? Btw…do you know how the majority of gitmo detainees arrived there?

You think the US brought them or bought them?

Forget it....save your bait

First minute is health care bill but the rest is Foreign Policy

December 25, 2009

Ron Paul: Time for A Sensible Foreign Policy

..."why would Osama bin-Laden, who's mother is a Palestinian"...

_________________________________________________

Osama's mother, Hamida, was a beautiful young Syrian woman who caught Mohammed's fancy late in life. Married at the relatively late age of 22, she had lived a relatively modern lifestyle in Syria, including shopping trips to Damascus. She had an independent streak, and found life within the bin Laden compound confining. She did not like covering her face with a burka, and was scorned by the other wives and ex-wives. By the time Osama was born, she was ostracized by the other women. They referred to her as "the slave," in reference to her resentment of her status. Osama was known by the nickname, "son of the slave."

__________________________________________________

http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/osama.htm

__________________________________________________

Osama's mother was Palestinian. the fact that she lived in Syria does not make her a Syrian. the same goes for Palestinians living in Bahrain which does not make them Bahrainis nor are the Germans who live in Riyadh Sa'udis. it is also common knowledge that Brits or Aussies who live in Thailand are not Thais even if they managed to obtain thai citizenship.

..."why would Osama bin-Laden, who's mother is a Palestinian"...

_________________________________________________

Osama's mother, Hamida, was a beautiful young Syrian woman who caught Mohammed's fancy late in life. Married at the relatively late age of 22, she had lived a relatively modern lifestyle in Syria, including shopping trips to Damascus. She had an independent streak, and found life within the bin Laden compound confining. She did not like covering her face with a burka, and was scorned by the other wives and ex-wives. By the time Osama was born, she was ostracized by the other women. They referred to her as "the slave," in reference to her resentment of her status. Osama was known by the nickname, "son of the slave."

__________________________________________________

http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/osama.htm

__________________________________________________

Osama's mother was Palestinian. the fact that she lived in Syria does not make her a Syrian. the same goes for Palestinians living in Bahrain which does not make them Bahrainis nor are the Germans who live in Riyadh Sa'udis. it is also common knowledge that Brits or Aussies who live in Thailand are not Thais even if they managed to obtain thai citizenship.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/osamabinladen.html

Bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia around 1957 to a father of Yemeni origins and a Syrian mother.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2001/oct/28/world.terrorism

Bin Laden's mother, Hamida, was not a Saudi or a Wahhabi, but a stunningly beautiful, cosmopolitan, educated 22-year-old daughter of a Syrian trader.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...en/who/bio.html

Born 1957 for Syrian mother, Osama bin Laden was the seventh son among fifty brothers and sisters.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader...amabinLaden.htm

Osama's Syrian born mother, born Alia Ghanem, married Muhammad when she was twenty-two.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamida_al-Attas

Hamida al-Attas, née A'alia Ghanem,[1] (born 1934) is the mother of Osama bin Laden. She came from a Sunni Syrian family of two brothers and another sister[1], although it has been rumoured that her family are Alawites.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.mideastweb.org/Middle-East-Ency...a_bin_laden.htm

Osama bin Laden was the only son of Muhammed bin Laden's tenth wife, Hamida al-Attas, a Syrian.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.viswiki.com/en/Hamida_al-Attas

Hamida al-Attas, née A'alia Ghanem,[1] (born 1934) is the mother of Osama bin Laden. She came from a Sunni Syrian family of two brothers and another sister.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://sudokuas.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/b...11-al-qaida666/

Osama was born the only son of Muhammed bin Laden’s tenth wife, Hamida al-Attas, nee Alia Ghanem, who was born in Syria.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...and all Syrians are not Palestinians.

http://naam.com

Osama's mother was a Palestinan lady. period!

The Patriot Act turns 8 years old this month. It is hardly a daunting task to read in that amount of time (although I did it back in 2002). I HAVE read it and find no problems with it. You have NOT read it but still have problems with it (you're like the protesters who want to ban films they haven't seen but someone else told them it's bad so it must be). So read it and show me what's wrong with it. I have given you a link to the text. All you have to do is copy/paste the parts you don't like. Or is that asking too much?

Oh stop already your full of sh!t...hardly daunting? You cant even navigate posts here.

You did not read it. It is a maze of legislation. Almost every other section is some amendment to the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. Did you happen to read that cover to cover too? Because if not you know not what you read do you?

You would like to bait those who do actually give a sh!t into educating you? Is that it? If so there are better ways to go about it.

But for now let me humor you & just say the sections I have problems with & there are many. All rub me the wrong way for the same reason. They strip the people of civil liberties granted to us long ago. Now all they need do is say whatever investigation they want to commit is based in suspicion of terrorist activity. They need only say this is pre-emptive & your rights granted to you go out the window. No more due process…No more habeas corpus…no more privacy of your mail/email/bank accounts nada zilch.

They can throw you in jail not because you have been proven guilty of anything but because they think or Claim you may be involved in what they term terrorist activities/suspicions.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) recently issued a report which details how federal agents abused provisions in the Patriot Act, applying them to cases not related to terrorism. In addition, the ACLU found that the Patriot Act has had little tangible effect on the prosecution of terrorist suspects. The government claims it has prosecuted 400 terrorist cases in seven years as a result of the Patriot Act, but the truth, according to the ACLU, is that only 39 of these resulted in actual convictions for terrorism.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/patr...tended_172.html

39 out of 400? So how about the 361 falsely held?

Many sections are filled with vagaries

Sec 204 is great isn’t it? We watched movies as kids of times like these in the future.

How about 206? 210?

312 should be one you really like given your racist tendencies.

But forget it as I said I call BS on your story about reading the Patriot Act cover to cover & being in total agreement.. You have no real interest. I am talking for what?

Bottom line your ok with it all yes?

Patriot act ...no problem?

Afghanistan…No problem?

Gitmo…no problem? Btw…do you know how the majority of gitmo detainees arrived there?

You think the US brought them or bought them?

Forget it....save your bait

I have read it, but even if I haven't, why would that still stop you from doing so?

Copy/paste the text you have a problem with. You are happy to throw out section numbers because no one will bother looking it up. Besides, it wouldn't be clear if you were against every part of the section or certain sentences. You WILL NOT copy/paste the actual text here because you honestly can't find anything that backs up your wild claims. OMG! You're one of those sheeple!

Copy/paste the text you have a problem with. You are happy to throw out section numbers because no one will bother looking it up.

Look who is lazy. I never said I read it cover to cover as you claim to have....cough...BS...cough

Yet I have read the sections I mentioned. I also gave the reasons I disagree with them

Kor Tort like I said if you need an education your going about it all wrong.

Also like I said change the bait already your stale

Better yet find a new thread to troll

http://naam.com

Osama's mother was a Palestinan lady. period!

I will stop trying to confuse you with facts. Your mind is obviously made up.