A radical Islamic group wish to march through the small provincial English town of Wootten Bassett to demonstrate against the wars in the east. As I'm sure the learned on here are aware, Wootten Bassett is where the UK parade their fallen hero's after they are brought home to rest.

I for one will take a plane from HK and go to jail if necessary to prevent this act of depravity from taking place.

I have been involved in upholding the law all my life, but some things are worth fighting for and perhaps even breaking something I have sworn to protect for over thirty years; this my friends is one of them. May the bastards plotting this rot in whatever they call hel_l.

We don't get that kind of radical Islamic protest crap in America! Instead, we have a crazy preacher whose congregation is made up mostly of his family and they protest military funerals with signs like "Thank God for Dead Soldiers". Sometimes freedom of speech really sucks.

It's a bit hard to categorically say what Islam4UK are about. It looks as though their website has been shut down. Not alot of balanced info on google either.

Suspicious at the outset.

They want to show their democratic right of free speech, to protest against a war that non-Muslim Britons also would protest against....so where's the problem?

The war is, in part about democracy...yet here we have a case where in London, it is proposed to curtail the rights of citizens to peacefully protest against war.

From an outsider's perspective, it looks as if the protest-against-the-protest is that the religion of the protested protesters is the same as the religion of the people the war that is being protested about is waged against.

Ironic.

I have no knowledge of Islam4UK ...but it seems that this stance of the OP is that of a bigot....and I am sure he is NOT a bigot normally: there is just some emotional unthinking going on.

I have no knowledge of Islam4UK ...but it seems that this stance of the OP is that of a bigot....and I am sure he is NOT a bigot normally: there is just some emotional unthinking going on.

Maybe I'm expecting too much but to admit to having no knowledge of the group yet label someone a bigot for being against it doesn't sound quite right.

They are deliberately choosing Wootton Bassett as a place to protest to push buttons, they want a reaction. If they want to protest then fine, but take it to parliament in London or similar but leave the dead, or more importantly the families of the dead, out of this.

The government can't and shouldn't suppress freedom of speech by stopping this, although I understand that the police can stop it to prevent the inevitable trouble.

Personally, I think that the police in Wotton Bassett should let it go ahead...... And then take the day off!!!!!

It's a bit hard to categorically say what Islam4UK are about. It looks as though their website has been shut down. Not alot of balanced info on google either.

Suspicious at the outset.

They want to show their democratic right of free speech, to protest against a war that non-Muslim Britons also would protest against....so where's the problem?

The war is, in part about democracy...yet here we have a case where in London, it is proposed to curtail the rights of citizens to peacefully protest against war.

From an outsider's perspective, it looks as if the protest-against-the-protest is that the religion of the protested protesters is the same as the religion of the people the war that is being protested about is waged against.

Ironic.

I have no knowledge of Islam4UK ...but it seems that this stance of the OP is that of a bigot....and I am sure he is NOT a bigot normally: there is just some emotional unthinking going on.

Quite right, on this issue I'm a bigot.

The group as said above have no interest in genuine debate or protest, they just want a fight.

Normally I would not care, or have such a strong opinion however, to pick a fight in a place that means so much to bereaved families is a disgrace. I for one am happy to be labeled by a nun-flying Chinese goosberry as a bigot on this issue, I fully accept it and make no apology

To put it context for our antipodean buddies, it would be a lot like a radical group going to your major cemetery on ANZAC day and demanding to have the right to shit on the graves while the memorial service is in full swing.

 

To put it context for our antipodean buddies, it would be a lot like a radical group going to your major cemetery on ANZAC day and demanding to have the right to shit on the graves while the memorial service is in full swing.

I believe that it was the same group (islam4uk) that had previously held a protest whilst a repatriation service was actually in progress.

It's a bit hard to categorically say what Islam4UK are about. It looks as though their website has been shut down. Not alot of balanced info on google either.

Suspicious at the outset.

What a coincidence. It was up yesterday. Apparently when the revolution comes they're going to move into Buckingham Palace

Here's some info about its leader:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjem_Choudary

It's a bit hard to categorically say what Islam4UK are about. It looks as though their website has been shut down. Not alot of balanced info on google either.

Suspicious at the outset.

They want to show their democratic right of free speech, to protest against a war that non-Muslim Britons also would protest against....so where's the problem?

The war is, in part about democracy...yet here we have a case where in London, it is proposed to curtail the rights of citizens to peacefully protest against war.

From an outsider's perspective, it looks as if the protest-against-the-protest is that the religion of the protested protesters is the same as the religion of the people the war that is being protested about is waged against.

Ironic.

I have no knowledge of Islam4UK ...but it seems that this stance of the OP is that of a bigot....and I am sure he is NOT a bigot normally: there is just some emotional unthinking going on.

Quite right, on this issue I'm a bigot.

The group as said above have no interest in genuine debate or protest, they just want a fight.

Normally I would not care, or have such a strong opinion however, to pick a fight in a place that means so much to bereaved families is a disgrace. I for one am happy to be labeled by a nun-flying Chinese goosberry as a bigot on this issue, I fully accept it and make no apology

To put it context for our antipodean buddies, it would be a lot like a radical group going to your major cemetery on ANZAC day and demanding to have the right to shit on the graves while the memorial service is in full swing.

I have no agression or disrespect for Britons. Obviously, I don't see a comparison between shitting on graves and parading through the streets, albeit those streets are used also for parading coffins of dead soldiers.

What is the message of the proposed protest march? A message to ask that no more Britons die over there in that war that has a very dubious reason for having been started in the first place and has resulted in the deaths of the soldiers for which this town is now revered for and thus can not let Islamic people desecrate their cobbles because it was Islamic people that killed the soldiers.

The Kaffufla Bird syndrome.

Harcourt.

I really do think that you are misunderstanding the motive behind their march, and by some way.

Oh dear,

Muslim, Christian, Monster Raving loony Party, who cares. I am not horrified by the colour of their skin or the religion these hooligans hide behind. A peaceful, meaningful march for peace not a problem. That is not what these scum, for want of a better term religious Fascists want. They want to breed terror and take by force a country which is basically a tolerant place and force upon it, female circumcision and the running over of children's hands for the slightest infringement of their medieval code, to name but two of the practices enjoyed by their brethren in power in certain completely intolerant states.

Beside all that Endure would look awful with a full beard.

Beside all that Endure would look awful with a full beard.

Sorry - don't do beards. It's against my religion

I am all for protest and not always peaceful!

But the reason for protest has to be apt and reasonable, there are two places where this protest should not take place and that is Wooton Bassett and Oxford, the former is where the residents have always shown utter respect and the latter where soldiers are taken for their initial rest.

This is pure bile, vitriol and disrespect.

They have every right to protest against this illegal war, but the soldiers did not bring it about, nor the villagers of WB vote for it, so take it elsewhere and carry out their democratic right.

I am with Rakers, let it go ahead and give the Police licence to ring in with the Blue Flu and let the Gurkhas and Marines marshall the event, whilst banning all media and photography.

Democracy has its good points, too.

this town is now revered for and thus can not let Islamic people desecrate their cobbles because it was Islamic people that killed the soldiers.

Nothing to do with that at all. Wootten Bassett has no political agenda whatsoever. Alot of them don't believe in the war either. But it doesn't stop them giving respect to the dead soldiers returning home.

I agree with moonrakers. Let it go ahead and give plenty of notice to all, that there will be no policing. Hopefully these scum would dissapear from shores of the UK for good.

As a gauge as to how much resentment this has created, the facebook page protesting against this now has over 400,000 members. Just a few hours ago it was 300,000 so the group is expanding very rapidly.

I a facebook group is anything to go by, then this really has upset rather a lot of people.

According to today's papers Islam4UK has a habit of organising this kiind of event and then ducking out at the last minute.

 

I have no agression or disrespect for Britons. Obviously, I don't see a comparison between shitting on graves and parading through the streets, albeit those streets are used also for parading coffins of dead soldiers.

What is the message of the proposed protest march? A message to ask that no more Britons die over there in that war that has a very dubious reason for having been started in the first place and has resulted in the deaths of the soldiers for which this town is now revered for and thus can not let Islamic people desecrate their cobbles because it was Islamic people that killed the soldiers.

The Kaffufla Bird syndrome.

This may put it into perspective for you:

RE the video clip.

For sure, a solemn and sad occassion.

Harcourt.

I really do think that you are misunderstanding the motive behind their march, and by some way.

You're right, I don't understand. And I reiterate, I mean no disrespect here.

This is why I asked, "What is the message of the protest march?"

I can't find much on this issue except all the protestations against the protest march.

From this outsider's view, there is an immense imbalance in information available on the subject.

From this outsider's simple outlook, there is a group wanting to protest the war. Does it matter what street they march on?

I wonder what the reaction would be if Greenpeace or Lesbians For Peace wanted to have a protest march through the town? If that would get the same reaction, then obviously the feelings of the people are based on genuine sentiments.

Not that I fully comprehend the sentiment.

To me, what is important is how genuine the sentiments are.

From Janet Daly's blog in the Telegraph:

"Sky News is reporting that the extremist Muslim group Islam4UK may agree to call off its outrageous plan to march through Wootton Bassett if government ministers will agree to debate with them on the war in Afghanistan.

Given that the Wiltshire Islamic Cultural Centre has joined with the local population of Wootton Bassett in asking the local police not to permit the march, this absurd “demand” is presumably the beginning of a staged climbdown. Islam4UK’s grotesquely offensive demonstration plan has managed to mobilise moderate Muslims quite effectively. The Wiltshire Islamic Cultural Centre in announcing that it “unreservedly condemns” the march, has said that it will hold its organisers personally responsible for any backlash against Muslims which results from their “irresponsible and irrational” actions.

The afflitated moderate groups are apparently willing to stage their own rally to counter-demonstrate against Islam4UK. Maybe the most salutary thing we could do is to allow this march to go ahead: there would be something hugely satisfying in the sight of a handful of extremists humiliatingly outnumbered by a crowd of their co-religionists carrying placards that said, “Not in my name.”

Harcourt, you are frustrating me.

Perhaps what you are really missing is the motive behind these so called 'protests'. Allow me to illustrate, he is Mr. Choudry at his best.

If you don't get 'the point' by now then I shall leave it to a fellow bedlamer to explain, should they be willing.

You can lead a horse to water..........

I am all for protest and not always peaceful!

there are two places where this protest should not take place and that is Wooton Bassett and Oxford, the former is where the residents have always shown utter respect and the latter where soldiers are taken for their initial rest.

This is pure bile, vitriol and disrespect.

They have every right to protest against this illegal war, but the soldiers did not bring it about, nor the villagers of WB vote for it, so take it elsewhere and carry out their democratic right.

Does it matter what street they march on?

I wonder what the reaction would be if Greenpeace or Lesbians For Peace wanted to have a protest march through the town? If that would get the same reaction, then obviously the feelings of the people are based on genuine sentiments.

Not that I fully comprehend the sentiment.

To me, what is important is how genuine the sentiments are.

The whole point is the genuineness of the sentiments, people who show respect, or those that want to maximise vitriolic distaste.

GP, or LfP can march all they want in WB, or Oxford, because it is not a conflict of interest in regard to the fallen. I have no problem with their march, just the location and don't think the organisation knows this, they are maximising the bile, but in this instance, it would appear to be a self defeating prophesy.

H' I have a feeling you are playing the Trolls Devil Advocate here, something I read and understand, because it is something I have played in the past and often erroneouslly called by my old sparring partner Ping, but I never played it in such compelling, or caustic situations.

Watching that vid of Choudry, which looks as if it could have been produced by BNP symapthisers, I get the impression of bigotry used to fight bigotry.

I in no way defend the radical Muslim bigots....simmilarly I do not condone white bigots. Being of mixed race, I have sufferred racism from both sides.

Devil's advocate, maybe, but not trolling. I can see this is emotive for many, so I will retire from the discussion.

Sorry if I have offended anyone...I honestly did not mean to.

I am not 'playing' with Harcourt any more on this subject as I suspect that he is being deliberately pig headed on the matter.

Anyway, for all the arguments I can't see it going ahead anyway. Even if the government and the police do allow it to go ahead then these extremists will face the stark reality of marching through WB surround by possibly tens of thousands of very very angry people, including members of the BNP and the EPL.

No doubt they will bow out after making some lame excuse whilst still trying to sound magnanimous to their followers and the press.

I am not 'playing' with Harcourt any more on this subject as I suspect that he is being deliberately pig headed on the matter.

Anyway, for all the arguments I can't see it going ahead anyway. Even if the government and the police do allow it to go ahead then these extremists will face the stark reality of marching through WB surround by possibly tens of thousands of very very angry people, including members of the BNP and the EPL.

No doubt they will bow out after making some lame excuse whilst still trying to sound magnanimous to their followers and the press.

I just sincerely backed away......I'm sorry you think that is being pig headed.

Some people will blindly take the side of the Muslim radicals even in an outlandish situation like this. In their minds, the Muslim radicals are radical because they have been wronged by the US, UK, Israel, etc. The Muslim radicals are victims and are probably justified in just about anything they do. They think things like, "9/11 was a justified reaction to America's foreign policy", "It's OK for Hamas to launch rockets into Israeli cities or blow up crowded buses because of Israel's policies". So it isn't really hard to believe these same people would think along the lines of "Muslims have a right to protest in Wooten Bassett because those soldiers died while trying to kill innocent Muslims in an illegal war". That, IMO, is why Harcourt seems to be "pig-headed" here. He is having a hard time wrapping his mind around the idea that the Muslim radicals could be in the wrong.

Now boys, leave Harcourt alone. He has said his thing and has put his hands up and said I'm out fairysnuff.

Take the time to go onto the Daily Mash web site. Funny stuff about guardian readers heads exploding after trying to come to terms that in this case they could not agree with a " Minority '.

Some people will blindly take the side of the Muslim radicals even in an outlandish situation like this. In their minds, the Muslim radicals are radical because they have been wronged by the US, UK, Israel, etc. The Muslim radicals are victims and are probably justified in just about anything they do. They think things like, "9/11 was a justified reaction to America's foreign policy", "It's OK for Hamas to launch rockets into Israeli cities or blow up crowded buses because of Israel's policies". So it isn't really hard to believe these same people would think along the lines of "Muslims have a right to protest in Wooten Bassett because those soldiers died while trying to kill innocent Muslims in an illegal war". That, IMO, is why Harcourt seems to be "pig-headed" here. He is having a hard time wrapping his mind around the idea that the Muslim radicals could be in the wrong.

I concur - blindly indeed!

Now boys, leave Harcourt alone. He has said his thing and has put his hands up and said I'm out fairysnuff.

Take the time to go onto the Daily Mash web site. Funny stuff about guardian readers heads exploding after trying to come to terms that in this case they could not agree with a " Minority '.

Some people will blindly take the side of the Muslim radicals even in an outlandish situation like this. In their minds, the Muslim radicals are radical because they have been wronged by the US, UK, Israel, etc. The Muslim radicals are victims and are probably justified in just about anything they do. They think things like, "9/11 was a justified reaction to America's foreign policy", "It's OK for Hamas to launch rockets into Israeli cities or blow up crowded buses because of Israel's policies". So it isn't really hard to believe these same people would think along the lines of "Muslims have a right to protest in Wooten Bassett because those soldiers died while trying to kill innocent Muslims in an illegal war". That, IMO, is why Harcourt seems to be "pig-headed" here. He is having a hard time wrapping his mind around the idea that the Muslim radicals could be in the wrong.

I concur - blindly indeed!

I don't get to read koheesti's posts because they are hidden from me unless quoted, as above...... but he is fairly spot on here, I must confess. Not totally, but fairly right....and I can't even add "for once" because I don't know what else he's written,

As for UG....I daresay that the sheeple that follow people like Cheney and Bush are not only blind, but selectively deaf too.