Oh...Europe

What an excellent and refreshing idea by member Harcourt ; better than my previous one

However, this topic is a little more difficult since it's not restricted to one country.

I Like Europeans Because..... Australians - New Zealanders - Americans and Thai welcome !

* where else are so many old castles?

* where else do their inhabitants speak so many different languages ?

* where else is the greatest variation of fine wines to be found ?

* Where else is the finest Scotch to be found ?

* where else can one find real Champagne?

* where else are the best designers in the world?

* where else are the best cars of the world built?

* where else are the finest yachts built?

* Where else are the best and finest watches created ?

I leave it to others to build this thread further and further.

LaoPo

A continent is too big for this subject but here's one...

The Eastern European variety of woman is hot.

Blue cheese

* where else are so many old castles?

* Where else is the finest Scotch to be found ?

* where else can one find real Champagne?

* Where else are the best and finest watches created ?

OK

* where else do their inhabitants speak so many different languages ?

* where else is the greatest variation of fine wines to be found ?

USA

* where else are the best designers in the world?

debatable

* where else are the best cars of the world built?

Depends on your definition of 'best."  Most dependable?  Japan.  Highest performance.  The USA.  Highest performance regular production cars?  OK, Europe.

(as for the finest yachts, I don't have a clue.

No posters were bashed in the making of this post!    )

Finnish women, Italian food, Norwegian scenery, German and French trains, Belgian fries with mayonnaise, Greek Isles, Spanish ham from mountain villages on hard bread (and sangria),  Lisbon, the Alps, British roasts (and cornies), rugby, Prague, Slovenian wild game, St Petersburg, Montrachet (nectar of the Gods), my ancestors, and a lot, lot more.

something went wrong will the quotes, so better post like this, sorry.

languages: sorry I don't think so; Europe beats them all in number of languages. If you're hinting at "new" Americans...don't forget we have our portion of "new" Europeans as well in Europe. Europe by definition is a part of the world where immigration is written on the rocks in caves.....

Wines: the same; you have no idea about the variations in wine in Germany, Switzerland, Eater Eusropean countries, even from Holland, Belgium and of course France Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece....

Designers: it's no secret that the best designers are from Europe; The Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, they all hire designers from all sources in Europe. Fact.

Cars: everybody who wants to buy a good -and the best- car, buys either a Benz, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar and not to forget, the amazing Aston Martin. No other country or part of the world could possibly cope with such a variety but yes I think the best cars are built in Europe, not in Japan or the US.

Finest -design- Yachts: Italy, Holland, Germany

LaoPo

Finnish women, Italian food, Norwegian scenery, German and French trains, Belgian fries with mayonnaise, Greek Isles, Spanish ham from mountain villages on hard bread (and sangria),  Lisbon, the Alps, British roasts (and cornies), rugby, Prague, Slovenian wild game, St Petersburg, Montrachet (nectar of the Gods), my ancestors, and a lot, lot more.

...now we're talking.....

real Spanish Jamon de Jabugo and Belgian Patates Frites......

LaoPo

Finnish women,

Are you serious? Do you have anyone in mind? I've been there quite a few times and haven't seen anyone to write home about. Now, take a ferry across to Estonia if you want to see the hottest women in Europe.

something went wrong will the quotes, so better post like this, sorry.

languages: sorry I don't think so; Europe beats them all in number of languages. If you're hinting at "new" Americans...don't forget we have our portion of "new" Europeans as well in Europe. Europe by definition is a part of the world where immigration is written on the rocks in caves.....

Sorry, but this is not really a matter of opinion.  Not only does the US have more languages spoken as first languages than Europe combined, but there are more native languages spoken in the US than in any other place.  Granted, most of those languages are disappearing fast.  In my home county alone, I think there are 9 native languages, but one has only 17 speakers.

Wines: the same; you have no idea about the variations in wine in Germany, Switzerland, Eater Eusropean countries, even from Holland, Belgium and of course France Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece....

Yes I do have an idea.  But you specified "fine wines," and in this arena, the US reigns supreme if you go by international awards.

Designers: it's no secret that the best designers are from Europe; The Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, they all hire designers from all sources in Europe. Fact.

Not fact.  Opinion. While there are of course many great European designers, there are also many US, Brazilian, and Japanese designers.  So it is opinion on who is "better."  Also, unless the Russian designers you mention are east of Ekaterinburg, then they are European.

Cars: everybody who wants to buy a good -and the best- car, buys either a Benz, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar and not to forget, the amazing Aston Martin. No other country or part of the world could possibly cope with such a variety but yes I think the best cars are built in Europe, not in Japan or the US.

I am not sure how you classify "everybody." In the US and Japan, at least, people are not clamoring to buy Audis and Jaguars.  I personally love the Jag, but having owned two in my lifetime, they are not well made insofar as dependability.  And I have had two Benzes, one Porsche, one BMW, and I currently have a Volvo back in my garage in the US. Fine cars all of them, but not one was as dependable as my Lexus, my Toyota, my Honda, or my Ford.  And we won't even go into my Fiat or MG

So once again, it depends on how you classify "best."  As far as getting out a middle-priced car which can run without going to the shop, no, I don't know of one European-made car which can compete with a Japanese, American, or now Korean make.

As far as a sexy car, well, no one does it better than the Italians, in my humble opinion, so if "best" = "sexy," then I would agree with you.  And as far as the top-end Benz, yes, not much else is there which can compete, but at the lower end Benz, yes, there are plenty. And as far as panache, I would pick the Rolls.

But I find it very hard to accept that the word "best" only applies to those parameters.

Finnish women,

Are you serious? Do you have anyone in mind? I've been there quite a few times and haven't seen anyone to write home about. Now, take a ferry across to Estonia if you want to see the hottest women in Europe.

I am serious, but, on the other hand, I certainly cannot find fault with your opinion on Estonia.

I have spent a good deal of time in the region, and for me, I find Karelian women to be absolutely stunning, and most Karelians, even the ones within Russia, consider them self as Finns.

Little known fact--there are very significant populations of Estonians, along with smaller numbers of Latvians and Lithuanians, in the Urals where Papa Joe relocated them during WWII as he didn't trust their loyalties.  

something went wrong will the quotes, so better post like this, sorry.

languages: sorry I don't think so; Europe beats them all in number of languages. If you're hinting at "new" Americans...don't forget we have our portion of "new" Europeans as well in Europe. Europe by definition is a part of the world where immigration is written on the rocks in caves.....

Sorry, but this is not really a matter of opinion. Not only does the US have more languages spoken as first languages than Europe combined, but there are more native languages spoken in the US than in any other place. Granted, most of those languages are disappearing fast. In my home county alone, I think there are 9 native languages, but one has only 17 speakers.

For another thread I went to the US Census website and they say something like 325 different languages are spoken in US homes. I have no idea how many in Europe but I would think more. The former Soviet Union itself had over 100 languages (not sure how many were east of the Urals).

Finnish women,

Are you serious? Do you have anyone in mind? I've been there quite a few times and haven't seen anyone to write home about. Now, take a ferry across to Estonia if you want to see the hottest women in Europe.

I am serious, but, on the other hand, I certainly cannot find fault with your opinion on Estonia.

I have spent a good deal of time in the region, and for me, I find Karelian women to be absolutely stunning, and most Karelians, even the ones within Russia, consider them self as Finns.

Little known fact--there are very significant populations of Estonians, along with smaller numbers of Latvians and Lithuanians, in the Urals where Papa Joe relocated them during WWII as he didn't trust their loyalties.

I lived in the Baltics for over a decade and made several trips to Finland (most recently in October for the NHL's opener between the Blackhawks and Panthers). I could count the number of hot Finnish women I've seen on one hand. Well, that is IF I could count. All this concrete in my head makes it difficult sometimes.

something went wrong will the quotes, so better post like this, sorry.

languages: sorry I don't think so; Europe beats them all in number of languages. If you're hinting at "new" Americans...don't forget we have our portion of "new" Europeans as well in Europe. Europe by definition is a part of the world where immigration is written on the rocks in caves.....

Sorry, but this is not really a matter of opinion. Not only does the US have more languages spoken as first languages than Europe combined, but there are more native languages spoken in the US than in any other place. Granted, most of those languages are disappearing fast. In my home county alone, I think there are 9 native languages, but one has only 17 speakers.

For another thread I went to the US Census website and they say something like 325 different languages are spoken in US homes. I have no idea how many in Europe but I would think more. The former Soviet Union itself had over 100 languages (not sure how many were east of the Urals).

The Council of Europe counts 225 languages spoken in the continent.  There are 347 languages spoken in US homes, and that number lumps many still-alive indigenous languages together where other linguists have them as separate languages (not having writing makes classification on some of these difficult.)

Bonobo: unlike in the other topics: I like....you're turning this topic into competition, no?

Funny, about languages: the history of America is sooo young in comparison to the old world and yet you seem to be proud that they speak more (imported) languages in America.

The EU alone has 500 million people and greater Europe 730 million versus present 300 million for the US; yet you claim more languages are spoken in the US.

I think you missed my point about country-languages; I was talking OFFICIAL* languages not dialects.

BTW, you and I have about the same-same taste....cars. The difference is I won't tell what's in my garages.

You won't see many of those Lexus here and it's better appreciated and praised in the US than Europe. Only a special kind of people drive Lexus; not my friends. I better don't discuss Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi or any other Japanese cars.....

Oh, I forgot The Range Rover

There are cars and cars and European designed cars

And let's forget about designers since you won't accept it anyway.

Panache...Rolls....? now you show you're old fashioned since the Rolls is completely "done" in sales on the continent. The car in that category is the Bentley nowadays Bonobo and preferably the convertible for the summer and the saloon for more rainy weather

And the larger Benz models are also done since the people who could afford them would buy a Bentley or even the large Audi; look at the sales results between Audi and Benz (owning myself btw). Of course Benz is a good car; very good but it's not in fashion.

You just showed the difference between America and Europe for cars in fashion.

No flame intended.

* English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% USA - CIA facts

** The European Union has 23 official and working languages. They are: Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish. Source EU Commission

LaoPo

Successful socialism?

Successful socialism?

I don't know...is Capitalism successful ?

LaoPo

I like because....

Italian and French cuisine.

Riesling and Pinot Gris (Yes, Bonobo, California can produce a reasonable riesling....come to that NZ Chardonnay ranks well)

Ikea furniture

French farmers unions

Belgian chocolate

I have never been to Europe but dreamt of it often.

So I would say I like Europeans for the inspiration they gave me while growing up.

As a young man I raced MX as a sponsored Honda rider.

In those days I so wanted to go to Austria, Finland,Sweden

Where many of my idols hailed from. In those days the Euro's kicked everbodys

butt in MX

Later in my 20's/30's I did triathlon & road bike racing.

Of course I wanted to go to the Tour De France & the Giro in Italy

Then of course Belgium too for the spring classics that lead up to the tours.

Funny too ,,,years later I had booked a flight to ride in the Alps & Italy

A big change occurred in my life & I cancelled.....instead I built my son a house & went to Thailand.

Well of course that changed everything

Although I still want to go to Europe someday & ride many of their mountains as well as eat my way across Italy.

Then for desert go to Belgium for their chocolates

What I admire most in Europeans is they seem to have a true passion for what they build.

It shows in their cars,bikes (both bicycles & motorcycles) Their architecture & design etc...

Their eye for form & function has always agreed with my tastes.

English literature and English music!

I think you missed my point about country-languages; I was talking OFFICIAL* languages not dialects.

The USA doesn't have even one "official" language.

As for Europe, I love Europe. If they had someplace with a year-around hot climate that was affordable that's where I'd be now.

Greater Europe is a great half-continent. Quaint. I don't drink. My youngest son loves southern Ireland. I had an Austin-Healey-Corvette, a French Alpine, Opel, Vauxhall, Ford Corsair, VW's (last one was Mexican). Touring Britain was good. Interesting people; cold climate.

Bonobo: unlike in the other topics: I like....you're turning this topic into competition, no?

Funny, about languages: the history of America is sooo young in comparison to the old world and yet you seem to be proud that they speak more (imported) languages in America.

The EU alone has 500 million people and greater Europe 730 million versus present 300 million for the US; yet you claim more languages are spoken in the US.

I think you missed my point about country-languages; I was talking OFFICIAL* languages not dialects.

BTW, you and I have about the same-same taste....cars. The difference is I won't tell what's in my garages.

You won't see many of those Lexus here and it's better appreciated and praised in the US than Europe. Only a special kind of people drive Lexus; not my friends. I better don't discuss Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi or any other Japanese cars.....

Oh, I forgot The Range Rover

There are cars and cars and European designed cars

And let's forget about designers since you won't accept it anyway.

Panache...Rolls....? now you show you're old fashioned since the Rolls is completely "done" in sales on the continent. The car in that category is the Bentley nowadays Bonobo and preferably the convertible for the summer and the saloon for more rainy weather

And the larger Benz models are also done since the people who could afford them would buy a Bentley or even the large Audi; look at the sales results between Audi and Benz (owning myself btw). Of course Benz is a good car; very good but it's not in fashion.

You just showed the difference between America and Europe for cars in fashion.

No flame intended.

* English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% USA - CIA facts

** The European Union has 23 official and working languages. They are: Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish. Source EU Commission

LaoPo

No competition at all.  I just tend to step in anywhere if I read what I see to be incorrect statements being given as facts.  Had you written you like Europe because you like the cars better, I never would have posted back. But to blithely state opinions as facts opens yourself up to responses from people who think/know those "facts" are incorrect.

And I am not "proud" of the number of languages (not dialects, languages) spoken in the US.  I speak two myself, and have a smattering of a few others.  I certainly don't speak 347 myself, so what do I have to be proud about that?  If you only want to count government sponsored "official" languages, then the US has three as designated by a small handful of states:  English, Spanish, and Hawaiian.  

As far as the length of history of the US, just how does that matter to how many languages are spoken there? First, the "history" of man the Americas is about 15,000 years, so I guess that would be good enough to establish a trend.  But you accuse me of being "proud" of American languages, yet your statement calling us "sooo young" certainly infers that you are "proud" of your old-world heritage.

And as an American, even more so, as a Californian, it is not surprising that I would choose a Rolls for panache.  Half of the Rolls Royces sold each year are sold in California.  I have had this conversation with one of Osama bin Laden's half-brothers many times, and in the US, along with the Arab world (according to him), the Rolls does carry more weight even if the Bentley is a higher-performance car.  And unless you are categorizing "good" as being in fashion, as you write (which certainly is a reasonable definition of good), then you arguments about fashion make little sense, as Toyota outsells all the European makes.

You seem to infer that I have some beef with you.  Well, I don't at all.  You actually seem like a nice guy, and you certainly have varied interests.  But whether is it because English is not your first language or if it is just part of your personality, you seem to open yourself up to having people take issue with what you write, and then the perception is that you cannot own up to any mistakes. 

But you have to remember that the internet is not the most effective method of communicating, so who you are in person may or may not have any relations to how you come across. 

Peace.

Despite my problem with LaoPo's post, I should be clear in that I love Europe.  My first night in Europe was at a small cafe under the Acropolis drinking wine and singing with a mixed group of tourists who had gathered there. And it has only gotten better from there.

I have spent probably a year-and-a-half total time in the continent in 33 different countries, and I simply have enjoyed my time there tremendously.

But whether is it because English is not your first language or if it is just part of your personality, you seem to open yourself up to having people take issue with what you write, and then the perception is that you cannot own up to any mistakes. 

But you have to remember that the internet is not the most effective method of communicating, so who you are in person may or may not have any relations to how you come across. 

Peace.

You have a point.

The majority on this forum has native English tongue although it differs from Scottish, via Canadian, American, S'pore to NZ English tongue and everything in between. I have learned many new words and expressions since I became a member and daily, I'm happy to admit, I learn new things and TG there's Google and on line dictionaries.

But you're correct; I have noticed that there are members who misunderstand* my way of English posting/writing and maybe there are elements, although my English might seem OK to others in those posts, that are not quite the way native tongues would:

A. understand properly and

B. have written themselves

Raised in a small European country we HAD to learn our languages but above all to understand the way of expressions by other people, non-native. The government even aired a long-time educational television program where it was made clear HOW other people from many other countries expressed themselves or had different rules and habits. It's called education for a multi cultural society which we, and many other countries, are nowadays.

One tiny example: it is considered as impolite and "not done" in my country if you show up late for an appointment; the government expressed that many people from other countries consider showing up late, is being polite to the host of that appointment, in their own culture. Don't ask me why.....

And, of course it IS very difficult for me, but for anybody else also, who isn't raised in English to cope with the sometimes harsh comments to something I post and write genuinely and honestly.

I have been called a liar over and over by another poster and I know the rules in this forum are loose but it's not easy to swallow I tell you.

Maybe it's considered as normal in his circles to call someone a liar but you won't find that word, written by myself, in the almost 12,000 posts I've posted so far; it's not in my vocabulary. I consider it as "low".

Maybe the others who misunderstand me can have a look in the mirror themselves and before attacking or posting nasty things about me, either ask what I mean or send me a PM?

After all, we have to realize that this IS an INTERNATIONAL English forum we are dealing with, with members from many different countries trying to write proper English.

That it is misunderstood sometimes is nothing wrong with since we all learn, day in day out.

But to say that I cannot cope with my mistakes is not entirely correct; I'm one of the very few members over a period of 5 years since I'm a member, who is able to say: sorry or Mea Culpa if necessary.

I DO make mistakes but I don't see many members Bonobo, including staff, who are capable of doing so themselves

It's weird to see members who call someone a liar and ask for excuses the next post

I didn't check but if you Google Mea Culpa on TV it wouldn't surprise me that most of them are mine. I regularly excuse myself, not something I see from most members. They debate until they die.

But, thank you for your kind and thoughtful post.

Note:

* My topic about Bashing Upon Countries is one fine example of a topic that is completely misunderstood and I dare to say BECAUSE most members did NOT read the link I sent and asked to read that first, before commenting and also BECAUSE they can NOT read properly.

They are lazy and read what's not written; they only write about (and now I use Bonobo's word) the PERCEPTION they have, misreading my post.

I just noticed that Mod Scot didn't even understand what my topic was all about and may I than refer to my second sentence, above?

I will ask to close that topic and maybe some members will have a good long look in the mirror next time, BEFORE they post a flame to someone else, rather than to consider themselves to be the better and more intellectual ones with the correct opinion.

LaoPo

You say that everyone misunderstood what you said because of your lack of English skills and then you start flaming them - calling them "lazy" and claiming that they did not actually read your post and claiming that they cannot read properly (which most people would translate as saying they are stupid). If you cannot express yourself correctly in English, why are you blaming the readers?

I accused you of lying when you said that no one would be able to find even one of your posts bashing America - "even a hint" were your exact words - and I found several almost immediately. Don't forget that you implied that lannarebirth was lying when he said you were being dishonest about America bashing.

You do not seem to be able to ever admit your own mistakes and want to blame everyone else for them. Personally, I think that you are not being honest, but if you are, you should learn to be humble about your own inadequacies instead of pointing the finger elsewhere.

Closed per OP request.