Gang Rape In Rawai

[minefield]

Good God when will this ever stop?

Robberies, rape, murder, rip off's, no police worth a w**k, they rip off more than most.

When will Phuket Thai's realise the golden goose will stop laying eggs soon.

The Gov is meant to be a decent person but it seems a blind eye and some sound bites is enough for this reputation.

I came here to retire with my wife, seems that my money that I would spend over the next twenty years will be wasted as I am 90% certain I will sell up and move to a friendlier country.

LOS? don't make me laugh.

My wife and I will be arriving within 2 months with the idear of retireing in Phuket, I agree it's making me think !!!, BUT, As the NZ dollar is not worth much where do you go???

[ScubaBuddha]

Sorry Scuba you are well off the mark with the number of people here.

In March 2007 the Phuket Provincial Administration office reported that there are 313,955 people registered as living in Phuket. However, this figure is likely to be quite a lot higher as this data does not take into account those who live and work in Phuket but are registered as being resident elsewhere, a fairly common occurrence. Together with this are the seasonal workers and visitors of which there are a significant number all year round. Taking this into account, some estimates have calculated a figure as high as 500,000 during peak periods.

Source: Phuket.net

So enlighten us. Which direction am I off? I can't imagine things have changed that much since 2007.

[ScubaBuddha]

Come on, and this is the person who was the victim of "road rage" recently (see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crazy-Tuk-Tu...d-t328523.html). Do you really feel "safe anywhere in Thailand"?

If your going to quote me, please do it accurately. I said "I feel safe in Thailand almost anywhere." I wouldn't go walking around Saphin Hin or on Patong Beach (where sand meets ocean) alone late at night. I certainly still feel safe in Rawaii in the broad daylight, (which is where and when I got road raged on by the tuk tuk driver.)

When is the last time you experienced the same situation in America? Have you ever actually lived in America and if so, where?

I grew up and have lived most my life in Northern California, in which, in reverence to you comment below, I was also a police officer for several years. America, or at least California, is odd in that there are huge differences from one town or city to the next in terms of demographic, crime rates, etc. There are certain areas in many cities which you would not want to go at night and even some in the daytime, particularly if you are not the right color, (or wearing the wrong color) such as areas of Pittsburg, Antioch, Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, San Francisco, or LA. Gangs, drug dealers, and prostitutes (think context, this is America) roam the streets openly. Nestled between all these bad spots are middle and upper class communities which are quite safe with very little reported crime to speak of. So my comment was about how I felt. I have lived in Phuket on and off since 2001 and I have never felt threatened or in danger, other than the recent road rage incident, which I could have probably avoided if I really tried.

You really shouldn't discredit the UK & US police forces by putting them in the same category as the Thai police. That's a real insult.

My comments have nothing to do with discrediting any police forces. How did you get to that out of what I said? And the UK? I didn't mention or even infer anything about the UK. Never been there. In the states I worked with some of the most honest, hard working and dedicated people when I was on the force. The Thai police are a disgrace to the uniform. They are not "real" police, just another organized crime syndicate. The UN agrees: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Police-...ls-t234946.html

Phuket is not a safe place to live and I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise.

What do you want, statistics? Pointless because they aren't going to be accurate for Thailand anyway due to under reporting and poor record keeping. Feelings are subjective and thus cannot be proved. I can only give you first hand accounts from my perspective and the perspective of my friends who have lived here for many years, and this is how we all feel. I still go jogging at night on Kata beach and am very comfortable with it. All the lucky balloon sellers know my name and greet me kindly. In stark contrast to Patong Beach (The bit where sand meets ocean) at night, family's with children are seen walking along the Kata beach even after 10pm, and a noticable police presence cruises the beach road from time to time giving at least the illusion that there is some protection.

Despite it's worsening problems, Phuket still feels very safe, and I believe it is in most places and at most times, with the exception of getitng yourself into altercations with tuk tuk drivers (not always easy I admit) or, as a young girl, getting drunk and going to the beach alone to shag a Thai guy you just met in a bar. (Not justifying the crime, just saying that is ill advised. Please don't attack me for justifying rape, because I am not in any way)

[ScubaBuddha]

In the last year I have had two attempted break in's, been scambed out of a bit of money, my wife was attacked walking from the shop.

And which area of Patong are you living?

[pagallim]

Sorry Scuba you are well off the mark with the number of people here.

Also I was brought up in the roughest part of Liverpool but I never had three murders, gang rape[maybe] People mugged and countless other things that don't get reported but I know about within two miles of my home in twelve months.

In the last year I have had two attempted break in's, been scambed out of a bit of money, my wife was attacked walking from the shop.

I would feel safer in Afghanistan sometimes!

Can't really believe that you're using Liverpool as an example of western gentility (I'm from Manchester by the way). Not sure of what the local Liverpool newspaper is, but I'm equally sure that there's an online edition, and I'm sure that it's not dissimilar to the Manchester Evening News (i.e. shocking). We both originate from similar environments, but the main difference between this (Phuket) and some (not all) western environments, is the number of strangers (AKA tourists). Petty (and I use the term loosely) crime is prevalent everywhere. The big difference in the UK at the moment is the amount of gratuitous violence, i.e. guy walking home from his local, group of youngsters don't like the way he's dressed etc, and for a laugh decide to kick him to death (probably recording it on their mobile phones). Getting off topic.

Sure, people come to places such as Phuket for holidaying, partying, relaxing, call it what you will. However, each of us carries responsibility for self control, and minimising 'risk'. I think more pertinent in this particular thread, is that the ineffectiveness of the police has reached the point where some individuals treat the potential of their prosecution for whatever crime (tuk tuk driver, prostitute etc etc) with disdain.

For me, bottom line is that the local population don't have any respect for local law enforcement, which can then encourage instances such as this.

[Daewoo]

These same arguements about the girl contributing to this is the reason why rape continues to occur...

In Malaysia I remember the govenor of one of the states where women must wear a hijab claimed the reason rape still occured was because of lipstick... to any sane person, that is ridiculous... the suggestion that her being on a beach at night is only an extension of that stupid statement...

When there was a series of mass gang rapes here in Australia, there were many comments about the young girls contributing to it by being out late at night... one was waiting for her father to pick her up after seeing a movie, and was forced into a car at knifepoint...

What is the approapriate time for a girl to lock herself in the house to prevent her contributing to being attacked??? what about attacks during the daytime??? what about attacks on children and babies???

No girl does anything that should be suggested invites these acts...

death to all rapists...

[happyinkathu]

These same arguements about the girl contributing to this is the reason why rape continues to occur...

In Malaysia I remember the govenor of one of the states where women must wear a hijab claimed the reason rape still occured was because of lipstick... to any sane person, that is ridiculous... the suggestion that her being on a beach at night is only an extension of that stupid statement...

When there was a series of mass gang rapes here in Australia, there were many comments about the young girls contributing to it by being out late at night... one was waiting for her father to pick her up after seeing a movie, and was forced into a car at knifepoint...

What is the approapriate time for a girl to lock herself in the house to prevent her contributing to being attacked??? what about attacks during the daytime??? what about attacks on children and babies???

No girl does anything that should be suggested invites these acts...

death to all rapists...

Agree 100% with you on this one Daewoo, with one exception..''death to all rapists''..Death is easy..here one minute..click..gone!!Too quick and easy IMO.

I have lived by the ''eye for an eye'' system as the logical reprisal..[watch all the P C and do gooders come out and argue against this]

So you take these vermin to a nice quiet place and introduce them to a guy with the nickname''DONKEY".He does to them as they did to the girl, and then they lock em up and toss the key!! To me that is justice and the punishment fits the crime.

I was back in aus when those ''imported scum'' went about gang raping many aussie girls and videoing it for their reason of, as one of their clerics !! quoted; they dress provocatively so they deserve it!! The perpatrators reason was purely because ''they are AUSSIE CHICKS''

and we are Lebo's and we are better!! if i remember rightly the gang leader copped 55 years jail.These dogs then appealed against the severity of the sentencing as being '' racist''....Knowing the ''power'' of the anti-racist movement in AUS, these guys are probably out and about already....

[stevenl]

SB, agree with you on this one.

I feel very safe living on Phuket, Rawai to be exact.

[chickencurry]

I feel safe in Thailand almost anywere. Not so in America. Phuket is still a very safe place dispite the high profile stories. It's an island the size of Singapore whose official population of 300,000 swells to over half a million during high season due to seasonal labor and tourism.

It's interesting that you make comparison with Singapore (same size location) - the population there is about 5 million I think? And you think max population in Phuket high season is half a million? So, which location do you think is safest? In terms of numbers, it ought to be Phuket, didn't it

We're all going horribly off topic I know - apologies to Mods.

[Peterocket]

SB, agree with you on this one.

I feel very safe living on Phuket, Rawai to be exact.

Yep..I feel safe too. Well as safe as I do anywhere else.

Nearly every thread ends on the same topic, so its hard to say if it's 'off-topic' or not. To me it seems if a thread doesnt end talking about Tuk-Tuks or how dangerous it is living in Phuket then it seems 'off-topic'.

[mikebike]

In Malaysia I remember the govenor of one of the states where women must wear a hijab claimed the reason rape still occured was because of lipstick... to any sane person, that is ridiculous... the suggestion that her being on a beach at night is only an extension of that stupid statement...

No girl does anything that should be suggested invites these acts...

death to all rapists...

Are you serious? Comparing applying lipstick to a drunken self-gratification on a public beach with a local at 4 AM?? Some girls definitely DO things that invite unwanted attention (you are correct that almost no-one would invite such horrible acts acts and no-one is saying that this individual did). Whether it is naiveté or bringing a false sense of security from the home culture/society, it is patently obvious that better decisions could have been made in this case to ensure personal safety.

If I was to walk around inner Motor City at 4 AM wearing my Rolex, a suit by Hugo, and carrying a Louis Vuitton brief case I'd say I'd made a huge error in judgement and would expect a beatdown and robbery... I wasn't inviting it, but you better believe its gonna happen like the sun rises every morning!

[LivinLOS]

I think more pertinent in this particular thread, is that the ineffectiveness of the police has reached the point where some individuals treat the potential of their prosecution for whatever crime (tuk tuk driver, prostitute etc etc) with disdain.

Now thats the nugget of gold right there..

When they feel there will be no repercussions some elements of society will take full advantage of it, and as farangs tend to be poorly connected they make ideal targets. Add in some (often justifiable) dislike of farang behaviour and jealousy at apparent farang wealth and you have a tinderbox.

[ScubaBuddha]

SB, agree with you on this one.

I feel very safe living on Phuket, Rawai to be exact.

WoW! Second time in a month!! Whats happening here?

[McFarang]

SB, agree with you on this one.

I feel very safe living on Phuket, Rawai to be exact.

Rawai Safe thats a joke only 2 months ago my Partner (Thai) was caught from behind drugged robbed and raped while locking up the house after putting her daughter and mother to bed in a quiet Soi and large house in Rawai.

The Police were a joke have done nothing apart from try and sell my partner some land to build a new house because they understand that she is scared to live here anymore.

Seriously looking at moving as my work lets me live where I want even thinking about allowing her to have a Gun in the meantime a 5 Iron sits beside the Front Door.

I am afraid that Phuket and especially Rawai is not what it was 5 years ago and as for the Police they are the most useless bunch of Prima Donnas I have ever met I woul have more faith in a bunch of Drug Crazed West African Cops than these fools.

Sad but true I agree with a former poster withi the year we will have moved somewhere else.

[steelepulse]

Sorry to hear that McFarang.

[Daewoo]

Are you serious? Comparing applying lipstick to a drunken self-gratification on a public beach with a local at 4 AM??

I am deadly serious... a girl having a root on an uncrowded beach invites someone to tape it and post it on youTube... she does nothing to put herself in a position when she is attacked and raped... being robbed is about the thief gaining money, commiting rape is about power, so they are not the same thing...

I have had sex on the beach late at night... I would never have thought it could lead to being attacked, and the girl being raped... and I am an old man now...

So, what length skirt can my mum wear before she is saying she is fair game??? or does it change with age??? a 20 year old must have a longer or shorter skirt because she may be more attractive than my old mum??? or my mum should wear a longer one because an old bird in a short one would say she is more experienced with men, and therefore less likely to get upset???

Is there some sort of matrix I can show my wife, time of day, location, skirt length, amount of make-up, level of alcohol consumption??? because I wouldn't want her being attacked unless it was fair...

When you say it is something a woman invites, you give justification to rape under certain circumstances... all men need to be as passionate as I am that it is NEVER acceptable...

Daewoo

[waza]

Yer, lets blame the victim...........

[LivinLOS]

While you cant blame the victim.. It has to be said, if you walk through the lions den with a pork chop tied to your neck your inviting trouble.. For a young woman to wander off into the dark with an unknown companion to have sex in public, while others lurk in the shadows is unwise, and contributes to risk she put herself in. Yes without doubt the perps are totally and completely in the wrong, in a perfect world she should be able to walk naked anywhere and arrive unharmed, but we dont live in a perfect world.

[starkey_rich]

There was a case in Pataya a few weeks ago of a farang guy having sex in his car.The BIB rolled up charged him and he nearly ended up in prison.

I am not condoning this crime but they could charge her with having sex in a public place.

Then miraculously the BIB have solved another crime.

[mikebike]

I have had sex on the beach late at night... I would never have thought it could lead to being attacked, and the girl being raped... and I am an old man now...

I was gearing up with a longer reply but LivinLOS summed things up quite nicely...

Specifically regarding the above quote: Your naiveté (or age) is showing if, "you never thought [late night sex on the beach] could lead to being attacked", my original analogy stands... even though "rape is about power" in current academic theory and theft is about greed the basic methodology to avoiding either is to not put yourself in situations where the perpetrators of such acts would perceive you as an easy mark. The intent of your actions is as irrelevant as is the intent of the potential perp - personal safety can never be taken for granted and it is the individual's responsibility to avoid (or not if you're a pathological risk-taker!) dangerous situations.

[happyinkathu]

How about a touch of reality here regarding the vile attack on this young lady.

All the posted conjecture,and speculation of the event, and the usual ''Phuket is doomed'' mob is all rather irrelevant and some of the posts as usual wander on to peoples particular gripes and personal info, and not relate to the OP.

Here, we have a young lady, complete with tatoos and piercings, probably on holiday, probably not an expat, doing as most young ladies do and have done since day one ie..letting her hair down,drinking to excess and more,[ by 4 am probably a hel_l of a lot more] , meets a young guy ,who takes her fancy, and as most of us did when younger and wearing ''the wobbly boots'' goes to the beach for the pleasures of the flesh with her new man.

Do you really think that at this stage she would be thinking of anything at all re;possible dangers???Naiive young ladies possibly wouldn;t think about danger even when stone cold sober, let alone at this time! Why would she even think there could be ''others lurking in the shadows'' Besides shes in company of her new man...he can take care of me..right?

Ok heres a likely scenario; She and new found darling are doing the horizontal folk dance on the beach chair,,yahoo! and all is great...

Unbeknownst to them they have an audience,sitting in the dark, watching , not only is it live sex, but a western lady to boot!!and getting a bigger turn-on than any blue movie can give them, so the three mongrel dogs [ who at that time of am are probably also full of cheap booze ] and ''up for it'' decide to use her themselves, and sadly for her they did so. Sad but apparently true, poor thing learned a big lesson in the most foul way immaginable for a lady, i would say.

For one i hope she is not too badly scarred by this, and for two i pray these guys are arrested soon[ the actual perps and not the usual '' 3 burmese labourers''] who seem to fess up immediately so the BIB can be seen to be etc,etc Very little DNA so..????

For three, consider the exact same scenario being re-enacted in near every single part of the world where the above situation is constantly being played out....Not just here in Phuket, ..everywhere.... This is just one sad story, one of many similar stories being told in the world every day IMO.

[pagallim]

How about a touch of reality here regarding the vile attack on this young lady.

All the posted conjecture,and speculation of the event, and the usual ''Phuket is doomed'' mob is all rather irrelevant and some of the posts as usual wander on to peoples particular gripes and personal info, and not relate to the OP.

Here, we have a young lady, complete with tatoos and piercings, probably on holiday, probably not an expat, doing as most young ladies do and have done since day one ie..letting her hair down,drinking to excess and more,[ by 4 am probably a hel_l of a lot more] , meets a young guy ,who takes her fancy, and as most of us did when younger and wearing ''the wobbly boots'' goes to the beach for the pleasures of the flesh with her new man.

Do you really think that at this stage she would be thinking of anything at all re;possible dangers???Naiive young ladies possibly wouldn;t think about danger even when stone cold sober, let alone at this time! Why would she even think there could be ''others lurking in the shadows'' Besides shes in company of her new man...he can take care of me..right?

Ok heres a likely scenario; She and new found darling are doing the horizontal folk dance on the beach chair,,yahoo! and all is great...

Unbeknownst to them they have an audience,sitting in the dark, watching , not only is it live sex, but a western lady to boot!!and getting a bigger turn-on than any blue movie can give them, so the three mongrel dogs [ who at that time of am are probably also full of cheap booze ] and ''up for it'' decide to use her themselves, and sadly for her they did so. Sad but apparently true, poor thing learned a big lesson in the most foul way immaginable for a lady, i would say.

For one i hope she is not too badly scarred by this, and for two i pray these guys are arrested soon[ the actual perps and not the usual '' 3 burmese labourers''] who seem to fess up immediately so the BIB can be seen to be etc,etc Very little DNA so..????

For three, consider the exact same scenario being re-enacted in near every single part of the world where the above situation is constantly being played out....Not just here in Phuket, ..everywhere.... This is just one sad story, one of many similar stories being told in the world every day IMO.

I don't think many would disagree with your comments. Sure, there can always be calls on judgement, but as many if not all of us have done, for want of a better term, we get carried away.

In the last few previous posts, myself and others have alluded to the situation here in Phuket, where the lack of action/investigative capacity of the local police force is such that very few, and I mean really, very few people who commit crime are actually caught.

Whatever happened on the morning of this particular incident (and I sincerely hope that I am proved to be wrong), the chances are that who ever the people were, they are unlikely to be identified, prosecuted, convicted etc etc.

The current situation of Phuket policing is that unless there is an occurrence that happens right before their eyes, the local police lack both the skill and acumen to be able to investigate any other than the most simple of crimes. The really sad part is that the local population know this, and hence incidents such as this will continue, and everyone will wail with anguish, and nothing will be resolved.

Trying to rationalise the current situation, which isn't easy of course, but for me the police only see themselves as an extension of the ambulance service. They are not proactive in preventing crime, and if any form of criminal act occurs, they only want to take (laborious) statements, and don't have a clue about actually catching criminals. Do the Thai police actually have any form of (English) CID (criminal investigation department), or anyone who doesn't wear a gay brown suit, and actually investigates crimes? As a rider to that, because there are always well publicised instances of genuine criminals being caught, but that is always by accident, it's never by any form of serious, investigative police work.

Me thinks the philosophy in Thailand is that everyone is innocent until caught, and the we can negotiate...............

[pagallim]

Again, my full comment wasn't printed, so I'll paste it again:

For some reason, my complete comment wasn't published, here it is again:

I don't think many would disagree with your comments. Sure, there can always be calls on judgement, but as many if not all of us have done, for want of a better term, we get carried away.

In the last few previous posts, myself and others have alluded to the situation here in Phuket, where the lack of action/investigative capacity of the local police force is such that very few, and I mean really, very few people who commit crime are actually caught.

Whatever happened on the morning of this particular incident (and I sincerely hope that I am proved to be wrong), the chances are that who ever the people were, they are unlikely to be identified, prosecuted, convicted etc etc.

The current situation of Phuket policing is that unless there is an occurrence that happens right before their eyes, the local police lack both the skill and acumen to be able to investigate any other than the most simple of crimes. The really sad part is that the local population know this, and hence incidents such as this will continue, and everyone will wail with anguish, and nothing will be resolved.

Trying to rationalise the current situation, which isn't easy of course, but for me the police only see themselves as an extension of the ambulance service. They are not proactive in preventing crime, and if any form of criminal act occurs, they only want to take (laborious) statements, and don't have a clue about actually catching criminals. Do the Thai police actually have any form of (English) CID (criminal investigation department), or anyone who doesn't wear a gay brown suit, and actually investigates crimes? As a rider to that, because there are always well publicised instances of genuine criminals being caught, but that is always by accident, it's never by any form of serious, investigative police work.

Me thinks the philosophy in Thailand is that everyone is innocent until caught, and the we can negotiate...............

[HDRIDER]

Hi

For the people here there think it’s her own fault,,, do you really think she asked to be raped, you guys are sick, and now crawl back under your rock, this is 2010 and everybody should be allowed to do what he/she want it’s not the stone age, or maybe some of you guys think it is, go get a life

[balo]

If they have sex , why not use the hotel room ?

I would blame her thai boyfriend, he should have known better.

[Valentine]

If some guy went for a midnight swim & then got gang raped by a bunch of homosexual drunkards I seriously doubt anyone on this forum would intimate he was asking for it or it was his fault.

[Doz]

I have been wondering how the poor girl is doing, whether she is still here or has gone home now with such a dreadful experience haunting her. How do you ever get over something so awful! I feel so sad for her, poor girl

[grumpyoldman]

I have been wondering how the poor girl is doing, whether she is still here or has gone home now with such a dreadful experience haunting her. How do you ever get over something so awful! I feel so sad for her, poor girl

How about the Thai guy that ran away instead of taking a beat down (or getting in some good punches depending on how you look at it) and letting her run away? What a pussy............

[LivinLOS]

How about the Thai guy that ran away instead of taking a beat down (or getting in some good punches depending on how you look at it) and letting her run away? What a pussy............

Reports say he was beaten, and there were 3 of them.. He went and got help ASAP.. If he was over powered theres not much else he could have done..

[ScubaBuddha]

I cant understand why people seem to think that this sort of crime only happens in Phuket. It happens everywhere especially when people have put themselves in risky situations.

I would never read this then think 'just another reason why I dont go to Phuket'. Robberies, rape, murder, rip off's, no police worth a w**k...sounds like the USA or the UK to me....

I feel safe in Thailand almost anywere. Not so in America. Phuket is still a very safe place dispite the high profile stories. It's an island the size of Singapore whose official population of 300,000 swells to over half a million during high season due to seasonal labor and tourism.

I'm impressed at the detail provided by the US state department concerning travel safety for tourists in Thailand.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1040.html

...the crime threat in Bangkok remains lower than that in many U.S. cities...Violent crimes against foreigners are relatively rare.