Police Crackdown On Foreign Operated Sex Bars

[manarak]

should be 50% drinks and 50% barfines really.

I suspect the news is designed to be news, nothing more.

I a few weeks, there will be another news story - "we have checked all the bars, it is ok now, no prostitution going on".

TOT public relations campaign.

TOT is the bloody PHONE COMPANY!!!

How come the majority of posts so far on this thread are from newbies who are obviously not native English speakers?

arai wah, mung kwai ngo.

TOT... TAT... so what?

So you've obviously never made a mistake when using your third language?

Edited January 23, 2010 by manarak

[raro]

chill pill time!

[Bagwan]

So before the police start their crack-down perhaps they might think about the effect of unintended consequences on their own people.

What? You have the temerity to suggest that Thais change their way of life? Thinking ahead, weighing consequences, pondering the what ifs, before coming to a decision and planning implementation. All concepts totally foreign to the Thai people. TIT. I note that you qualify your suggestion by including the word 'perhaps'. I suggest that the sad reality is perhaps they won't.

[ericthai]

and a bunch of us are extremely happy living and spending our euro and usd in thailand.... LOL

While that may be true for a few of the expats in Thailand, the biggest bunch of expats came to Thailand to visit Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket and found there their little "Issaan gem" to marry with.

The biggest bunch of them, can not live 6 month without visiting a bar or massage shop with a "happy landing"

no, we are not here just enriching our ourselves and our experiences.... we are also helping other thais to learn and to attempt at a better life, as well....

Thais and SE Asians are addicted to drugs, gambling and sex and their whole life turns around these 3 things.

Nobody can change that without changing the whole system to start at the very top (IYKWIM).

i feel quite sorry for you not to have good experiences in thailand.... and there must be multitude of complex reasons behind....

i do wish that you would try to change your location, if possible.... perhaps that might make some difference.... who knows?

More than a decade ago, when I first came to Thailand, as soon as anybody went out of places like Pattaya/Phuket/Bangkok/etc., Thailand seemed to be the most beautiful country to explore.

Nowadays, you can find more bars, coyote bars, Karaoke bars, and sex trade to foreigners than in Pattaya.

And most of these "places of sin" are not even visited by a Westerner as you can read a big sign at their door: "ONLY FOR JAPANESE".

What a stupid comment... I'm surprised planes are even able to land with all the people in the tower taking drugs and all these companies, banks and farms get anything done with all the drugs they take. Wonder how the university kids are learning anything with their addiction to drugs, gambling and sex!!!!

I go outside of Bangkok all the time and I must be blind I know when I go to places like Surin, Si saket, Mae sot etc I dont see any "only for Japanese" I do see this in Bangkok, so maybe you think you are out of bangkok but still in Bangkok.

If you are so down on Thailand why are you here?

Edited January 23, 2010 by raro

[drewnoyes]

Police crackdown on foreign operated girly bars

Of course the police will turn a blind eye to Thai owned or operated bars especially those that deliver tea money to them in brown paper bags on a regular basis. This Drew Noyes character keeps busy doesn't he? Three jobs at least - I hope that he has a business visa? As for Thais are easy to find but foreigners can Pattaya disappear in the villages did they forget that we have to go cap in hand to Immigration every 90 days to confirm our home address so that we can continue to invest in their country and be treated like second class citizens. I think that its the Thais that are difficult to find or perhaps the police don't want to find them - they always profess to have no money! I guess it makes better headlines when they arrest yet another foreigner doing naughty things and who knows they might have the money to be able to backhand their way out of trouble. Cynical from Pattaya.

I am that guy and yes I've got a Business Visa. The 2,000 wanted people who can disappear into the villages probably don't do a 90-day immigration reporting, by the way. Anyway, the Pattaya Times provides a link to Thaivisa.com because 99% of the members are really good people who you would want to know and to help. The front page article of the current issue of Pattaya Times on www.thaivisa.com and on www.pattaya-times.com is meant to inform any foreigner who has an investment in a bar to make sure his staff tells the police investigating the bar it is Thai owned and operated. The foreigner should not be sitting at his bar either in February. This should avoid the potential for trouble during the police crackdown coming soon. If we wanted to benefit in any way from the upcoming police crackdown we would not have published what we know in a major newspaper as a warning. We would wait and then get the foreigner OUT of trouble. I am an American and we all have to help each other so we don't have problems in our new country. And, for those of you who don't know me, just do an internet search. I have only had two guys accuse me of something bad and both of them are blacklisted out of Thailand. It’s important to all foreigners that Thais know good foreigners so they don’t treat us like second class citizens. The more respect they give some of us the more they will like all of us. The more trouble they have from some of us the more they won’t like all of us. Roger that?

[jb5music]

These bars charge a "bar fine" to the customer and let the employee leave for the night or a "short time" usually about two to three hours. It is suspected that many of these rendezvous are sexually related, police said

Gee... you think?????? I'll be darn!!!!!!!!!!!

Bar fine. This means that an agency of some sort is fining the bar for doing something wrong. Sort of like if they fine you for not wearing a helmet.

So let's see. Who else initiates and collects these fines? Weather a Thai bar owner or a Falang bar owner collects the fine I was always

under the impression it went to the police. You mean to tell me they collect the bar fine and just pocket the money?

What would the bar owner be fining you for? Are they the secret prostitution police? Maybe they can fine you for not tipping. A fine is a punitive assessment

and a fee is something that private or civilian entities levy. The word fine means the police get the money.

Oh I forgot - I'm trying to delete my account and put an end to these probably unread

pontifications anyway. There I go again.

[Rimmer]

Posts badmouthing the proprietor of Pattaya Times and replies deleted, I’ll get around to doing the warnings and suspensions for those people later.

[Arkady]

This has the making of a great social and tourist industry experiment in Pattaya. Close down all sex related businesses and deport all foreigners involved with them as owners, managers or customers. Then sit back and wait for Pattaya to flourish as never before as wholesome family oriented tourists rapidly move in to fill the gap left by sex tourism in the confidence that their children will no longer be confronted wth the eyesore of so many tatooed, shaven headed oiks from back home consorting with hideous HIV riddled prostitutes. This is the Amazing Thailand makeover we have all been waiting for but to make it work TAT will need some one really dedicated and capable at the helm. I believe that Juthamas will have to be re-instated to handle a watershed project of this magnitude for the Thai tourism industry. She would obviously need a large budget for foreign consultants and would have to spend a lot of time travelling to countries that don't have extradition treaties with the US to learn how they snuffed out sex tourism, e.g. Cuba.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Arkady

[ericthai]

kuffki

i am just wondering.... just how many places, towns and provinces in the territory of thailand have you personally visited for an extended period of time....?

what puzzles me even more is.... what qualify you to make such a bold but totally inaccurate and misleading statement like

PERSONALLY I DO NOT KNOW WHY WOULD ANY MAN TAKE HIS FAMILY, WIFE AND KIDS FOR HOLIDAY TO THAILAND....

i do not wish to criticise you nor you statement but would really like you to enlighten us with:

1--your length of stay in thailand,

2--the provinces you visited,

3--the ordinary thai families you are friendly with, and

4--your job in thailand.

in 1969, soon after neil armstrong first landed on the moon, and i was blessed with another a.u. degree, i arrived by pan am and kissed the runway in don muang airport which was a dinky one story building then.... and i have been in and out of thailand and the pacificrim ever since....

as far as my experiences go.... thailand remains one of the best choices for any family to visit, not including pattaya and phuket....

i am not saying that thailand is perfect, not at all and far from it.... but thailand still at this time and age.... offers the best value for anyone's money....

if anyone wants to point out the negativities of thailand which is plentiful.... plse be specific and name the locations....

and again thailand offers the best overall value for anyone's money....

and a bunch of us are extremely happy living and spending our euro and usd in thailand.... LOL

no, we are not here just enriching our ourselves and our experiences.... we are also helping other thais to learn and to attempt at a better life, as well....

i feel quite sorry for you not to have good experiences in thailand.... and there must be multitude of complex reasons behind....

i do wish that you would try to change your location, if possible.... perhaps that might make some difference.... who knows?

....Personally i do not know why would any man take his family, wife and kids for holiday to Thailand.

There are so many other places that offer so much more then Thailand in terms of sight seeing, history , culture and activities.

Coalminer answered your post better then i ever could!

Your humanitarianism is great and i am glad to hear you found a place that you enjoy.

But just to put your mind at rest

I have been living in Thailand for over 6 years and have traveled all over the place.

I do not know what is "ordinary thai family" in your opinion.

my job really has no affect on my opinions or post, but i do have one and am not retired.

I thank you for your advice on my life and what i should and should not be doing or living.

I already have a father and mother and clearly do not need another one to educate me.

As i stated in my opinion, if it is different in yours-that is your choice.

Might be an idea to look into stats and see the ratio of family's to single tourists visiting Thailand prior to starting to preach.

Just to add to the subject, please enlighten me on sort of activities offered to kids in Thailand?

While you at it, could you also point to some deep and meaningful historic sites that people can visit, and while you at it, how about naming 1 place where one can visit to say listen to world known orchestra or gallery

For living in Thailand for 6yrs you really dont know anything. There are hundreds of historic sites, Just to start in Bangkok you have Wat Pho, Wat Arun, wat saket and these are just a few of the many in Bangkok, then you have ancient cites such as Sukothai and Ayutthaya. You have River Kawi and all the ancient khmer temples in Isaan area of Buriram, Si saket area.

For your orchestra in bangkok you have the Bangkok Symphony orchestra foundation that brings in performances from all of the world such as Renee Fleming, flautist Sir James Galway, pianist Leif Ove Andsnes and of course you have the Bangkok Symphony orchestra themselves which is out standing and I could go on and on which are held at the Thailand culture center. Which is on Rachatda road since you dont know after being here for 6yrs. I cant believe you think Thailand has nothing to offer..

[dmax]

time to pack up and head down to sihanoukville

[brahmburgers]

Oh I just love the bit about how easy it is to find Thais. A woman cheated my wife of 800,000thb and ran away and we have been told for over 6 years how 'impossible' it is to track her down. I mentioned I.D. cards, house books etc and was told there was always ways around it.

I have a similar story. Filed a police report, had the Thai perpetrator's ID and tambian ban photocopied. What did the police do? Chief asked how much I would pay to find the person. I said 5,000 baht it the person was brought in. He looked back at his TV and mumbled something I didn't understand.

I dont care. Pattaya is a shit hole anyway. Bangkok Rules!!!!!!!

Like a choice between a rotten tomato and a pile of steaming dog poop.

I'm relieved to be far away from both places.

[Rimmer]

Post deleted, enough of these double meanings already stay on topic

[NanLaew]

On another forum specifically for Pattaya's mongers that allows comment and debate on prostitution and p4p, this very same subject has reached only a paltry 7 pages whereas this one in on page 11 already and that excludes all the moderated posts.

Does that mean there are more members with vested interests on this forum or is it a case of much ado about nothing?

[raro]

just look at the number of members we have and the number of members some other boards have..the rest is statistics

[sharecropper]

just look at the number of members we have and the number of members some other boards have..the rest is statistics

I have in the past noticed that a post from Raro can kill a topic stone dead, even when hes not even being nasty.

I'm going to call it the Raro Effect.

Nobody's posted here for over 4 hours since his last post, so to get past it:

I spoke to some major Walking Street bar owners about this last night and they thought this clampdown sounded like rubbish, and trying to effect it would be the Pattaya equivalent of herding cats.

[Tanaka]

I think that many of those girls sitting in Pattaya Beach bars are students trying to improve their English language skills. Not really "working".

and the ones on beach road are just waiting for the baht bus

Or the ATM.

[BigWheelMan]

It is suspected that many of these rendezvous are sexually related.

A crack down on the foreign owned beer bars, massage parlours, whatever?

That would mean the end of 95% of all the bars in Chiang Mai just for starters.

Please, get real, it will never happen, too much money involved.

Edited January 24, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[timekeeper]

isn't this ''everyday you can come'' promotion a contradiction of the supposed crackdown?

[ableguy]

These bars charge a "bar fine" to the customer and let the employee leave for the night or a "short time" usually about two to three hours. It is suspected that many of these rendezvous are sexually related, police said

Gee... you think?????? I'll be darn!!!!!!!!!!!

I am appalled to read this, are these owners unaware that many of these young ladies are from the impoverished North and have many grasping relatives to support, fining them and garnishing their wages is illegal. I would suggest they take the following action. Firstly write to their local member of parliament appraising him of the situation. Secondly copy the letter to a well known ex minister residing I believe in Dubai who is well known for his honesty and integrity as this upstanding citizen has a wide following and many contacts in Thai society. Thirdly contact their local police community support officer as these gentlemen are well versed with corruption and extortion. Finally a letter to Dear Abbey in the Bangkok post who I believe is widely read would bring this sorry state of affairs to a much wider audience.

I do hope the young men employed in Boise Town are not subject to the same extortion, for the readers unaware of Boise Town it is an area in the South of Pattaya which I believe was first settled with persons of Germanic extraction who moved here from Idahoe. These fine young men who eschew electronic computer games for a more robust way of life involving gymnastics sliding up and down tall greasy silver poles are role models for many young Thais, the exercise being beneficial in toning the body and tightening the buttocks, if indeed they are open to extortion I would suggest they contact the many Europeans who frequent this area, once aroused I can assure you they will be only too happy to get behind these young men with a firmness that some may find alarming.

Finally I find the suggestion that Europeans may actually be the owners of these establishments racist, it is a well documented fact that Europeans are benevolent when dealing with local natives I suspect the true owners could be North Korean as they as a race are renowned for exploiting the down trodden.

[Arkady]

Are you actually aware that at least 6 bars on Walking Street are owned by the same person? and another 5 by a group of foreigners?

Not to mention a large number of bars owned by a Thai (wife) but backed by a foreigner husband or boyfiriend or owned by a company which is backed by a foreigner!

May i suggest you get out little more often and rather then drinking just read the names on the licenses, yes i know they in Thai, so some Thai lessons would surely help.

Are you suggesting that the names, written in Thai language on the licenses,are those of foreigners?

This is an interesting one. They will not give a licence to a foreigner and most foreigners (but not all) are not dumb enough to use a limited company they own shares in or are directors of to operate a shady business like a girly bar. Therefore it is going to be hard to prove the involvement of foreigners. If their wives own a bar, the husbands cannot be prosecuted for hanging around in the bar. They would need statements from witnesses to the effect that the foreigners were actually managing the business on behalf of their wives and then they would be guilty of work permit offences but I suspect it would be hard to convict without the police catching the foreigners red handed working behind the bar. If they try to track down financial ownership, this is also not very easy. These are cash businesses and the concept of conjugal property in the Civil and Commercial Code makes it impossible to separately identify a husband and wife's assets acquired after marriage. Finally, how to prove that the bar is involved in prostitution when the deed takes place offsite and the bar doesn't receive any share of the transaction apart from the bar fine which doesn't prove sex is going to either take place or be paid for? Most of the prosecutions for unlawful sex with minors under the Prostitution Act (which only covers minors between 15 and 17 - under 15 they are covered by the Penal Code) fail because the prosecutors can't prove that sex was paid for and I would think it virtually impossible to prove prostitution took place involving two consenting adults away from the bar premises.

I would guess this is another public official, who probably has to face a reshuffle, bashing foreigners for grandstanding purposes like the sec gen of the Land Dept last year who made comments about revoking title deeds of Thai women with foreign husbands but later had to retract the comments after facing challenges that the Land Dept has no authority under the Land Code or its ministerial regulations to do most of what he was threatening. It is clearly not related to public morality concerns because they are not talking about targetting sex bars owned by Thais without foreign involvement.

[julemanden]

Here we go again...

...some wannabee HiSo Thai cop in Bangkok who isn't getting his cut of the money paid by the bars has decided to be a dog in the manger until someone gives him his due. Yawn. Same, same every 6 months.

U are so right, money talks, BS go out of the country.... Or pay !

[dmax]

ive hardly been to a bar in patts where there isnt sex for sale, what are the cops playing at ?

[britmaveric]

Again all this means is more tea dosh to be paid by the BIB. Usually this news happens in low season, so this is a tad early, but expect the BIB wants to make up for loss dosh one way or another. Prostitution is ingrained in thai society, and it isnt going anywhere.

[A_Traveller]

... foreign business people who are financial backers of gay bars, beer bars and a go-gos where there is sex for sale in Pattaya.

A reminder to all the 'what about the girl' posters. I've not waded through the replies, but scanning, maybe this point got missed.

Regards

Edited January 24, 2010 by A_Traveller

[britmaveric]

^they will be in the same place they always are. This happens every year, and people seem to forget after a week or so. Certainly no news to be reported!!!

[guruofvinyl]

This must be the most Rip Van Winkle moment of the week. At this point I am an old timer, I arrived for the first time in Thailand in MAY 1968. Yes, there were bars and barfines at that time. From that time until now the whole scene has just progressively increased, year by year. Wars, economic slumps, government changes, crackdowns, etc. have essentially no effect in any way of reducing the number of bars, foreign tourists, or punters in anyway. All of this time it has been illegal to take humans out of bars and play with them in various rooms. So you must understand that there is a system at work. I managed a bar once, only for a week, on Soi Cowboy, in the late 70's while the owner took a visa run. On one of those days I placed a parcel at the bar next to a visiting officer and after he left the parcel was gone. This bar only had 37 people that could be bar fined, some of whom lived in a clump in an upstairs room. In those days the only game being played was "showing". Many bars had nud_e shows but when certain police came in, a signal was given and panties and bras materialized. There were other minor hurdles from time to time like drug testing--lining up bar girls to pee at Nana comes to mind. Overall nothing stops the bar locomotive and anyone in power who was serious could shut it all down in a matter of days. Of course about a million people would be without a job or trickle down money. It is not going to happen. It is absurd to even think it will. Thais, as Spalding Gray said, "are the nicest people money can buy".

[brownlegs]

pattaya police crack down REPLY IN CAPS

Police Crackdown On Foreign Operated Sex Bars SO WHATS NEW?

PATTAYA: -- Informed sources from several police divisions have told the Pattaya Times that a very serious crackdown will begin next month to catch foreign business people who are financial backers of gay bars, beer bars and a go-gos where there is sex for sale in Pattaya. WHERE IS THERE NOT SEX FOR SALE IN THAILAND?

These bars charge a "bar fine" to the customer and let the employee leave for the night WHAT THEY ARE FREE TO LEAVE! or a "short time" usually about two to three hours. USUALLY HALF AN HOUR FOR ME.. WHAT'S NEW? It is suspected that many of these rendezvous are sexually related, GOOD LORD! police said. REALLY! Police investigations will determine who pays the bills and gets the profits.THE POLICE GET THE PROFITS! If the person is a WHITE foreigner then their visa will be revoked and they will be expelled from the Kingdom. If it is a Thai they will be arrested if sex is for sale. HOW MUCH SPACE IS THERE IN THE PRISON SYSTEM? There is much concern about organized crime in the nightlife venues, said one official. THE WRONG KIND OF CRIMINALS: NOT CHINESE!

"Where did the money come from? PUSSY Who is behind it? THAISWhere does the money go?" THE POLICE asked one policechief rhetorically. RHETORICALLY! I'LL SAY

In a related matter, there will be an Interpol office opening in Pattaya to help catch more than 2,000 foreigners wanted in Thailand on various charges. THEIR MAIN OFFENSE UGLY TATOOS AND SWOLLEN BEER BELLIES

"Keep in mind, Thais are pretty easy to find compared to foreigners, NO THEY ARE NOT THAIS JUST

DISSAPEAR 'UP COUNTRY' Thais have a mandatory National ID Card and associated number with a microchip of their history on the card. THEIR HISTORY! BORN IN SQUALOR- SOLD INTO SEX SLAVERY TO PAY FOR DADS GAMBLING DEBTS AND BROTHERS 2 STROKE MOTOR BIKE They must be registered in a

House Book so that at all times there is someone who can say where the person is living if the police want to talk with them. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? TALK TO THEM? ASK FOR A FREE BLOW JOB OR A BRIBE? This crackdown on WHITE NOT CHINESE foreigners built up to this point because it is relatively easy for us to disappear in the villages and big cities. ALL BIG CITIES BUT NOT THAI VILLAGES A FARANG STICKS OUT LIKE A SORE DICK IN A VILLAGE AND IS ABOUT AS WELCOME Or to simply leave the country," NOT SO THE AIRPORT HAS IMAGE RECOGNITION APPARATUS said Drew Noyes of PAPPA Legal Services in Pattaya. HE'S TRYING TO RAMP UP BUSINESS

"I advise anyone who has invested in a bar that might be suspected of illegal acts to clear up the problem and make sure they are not associated with any business that is engaged in illegal activities. PAY OFF MORE MONEY TO THE COPS!The Thai police are taking this very seriously. BRIBES ARE SERIOUS INCOME Sure, in the past we have heard rumors of crackdowns, but I don't think we have ever seen a crackdown like the one that is about to happen," HOW CAN YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN? said Drew Noyes, former three-term Expat Club leader and 13 year resident. EXPAT CLUB? THOSE LOSERS!

"There are many bars that we foreigners like to go to relax and part of the attraction of Pattaya is this nightlife. WE FARANG BUILT THIS CITY If everyone will make sure that nothing offensive to Thai culture occurs inside these places LIKE NOT PAYING FOR SEX AND NOT BRIBING THE POLICEand no foreigner is associated managerially or financially by a paper trail THAT DOES NOT LEAD BACK TO THE POLICE OR THEIR HI SO GANGSTER PARTNERS with these clubs then this crackdown may not cause many people problems.IN OTHER WORDS PRACTISE CRIMINAL STEALTH It is great to see the police crackdown on underage sex, YEAH ARREST THAI TEENS AND THEIR THAI BOYFRIENDS drugs BULLSHIT AND ALCOHOL? THE MOST DAMAGING OF DRUGS and many of the associate problems that come with the bar business, EMPLOYMENT OF OTHERWISE UNEMPLOYABLE THAIS but it is important that foreigners know the law AND EVADE ITand make sure bars they are invested in are not under scrutiny by the police for prostitution. AS THEY WANT A MONOPOLY ON IT FOR THEMSELVES.There are ways to protect yourself now," Managing Director of the Pattaya Times Drew Noyes added. HE DID NOT ADD THAT THAT THE MAJORITY OF PROSTITUTION IS ORGANISED BY THAI/CHINESE PIMPS AND SLAVE TRADERS FOR THAIS/CHINESE MEN.

THIS ARTICLE IS RUBBISH AND UNCRITICAL OF IT SOURCES AND ITS BACKGROUND.

[tracer]

Another post deleted

This thread must be a Mods nightmare!

It is

I think it's going to be a loooong night. Feel sorry for you...

Sorry for asking but what sort of posts get knocked out???

I cannot imagine anyone volunteering for doing this every day...

[rjk]

I do not believe for one moment that Thailand's Government has the political will to heavily regulate and limit prostitution. It would be a good thing if it did so as Thailand, along with many other countries, is seen as a huge brothel by many tourists.

For those of you who say that the girls exploit the customers and not the other way around, then you obviously do not understand the events that lead to the girls being in the bar in the first place, or developing those fleecing skills many of the girls manage to acquire and use so effectively.

The bar industry in that foreigners are exposed to in Thailand is the end of the road for many girls, not the beginning. Every day peoples human rights are violated in terrible ways in the name of this so called industry.

I'm not a prude, I understand that in any civilised society there will be prostitution, however it needs regulation and controls placed upon it so it is not fed by human rights abuse.

I agree with many that this crackdown is just the latest in a series of never ending crackdowns that never have any lasting effect. Thailand is not renowned for having unified political will at solving the worst of it's problems - which is why it is still classed as a 3rd world country.

[craigt3365]

We must remember that what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. Way more Thai owned places than farang...only they aren't so visible. I know a Thai ex-cop who owns quite a few bars in and around Nana Plaza. Really nice guy, actually. And didn't the leader of the yellow shirts make his money this way? All the time saying he had no idea what was going on during the massages?

Like was mentioned above, I have seen the payoffs. Been in bars after hours when the cops come in to collect a few baht so the place can stay open. It is such a scam here. They need to do like that Eastern European country did a few years ago...fire every cop and replace them. The PM of that country couldn't figure out any other way to deal with the corruption...