Gardening On The Islands

[samuijimmy]

Rooo's wiggererydoo... was a bit slow to work but at least a nice rain yesterday! ... maybe more today?

But think he sent a bit more than rain,..... my veg patch has been invaded with caterpillars and I think Aphids! Overnight....

At least the white radish seems to be OK so far....

I just knew I should not have bothered planting a veg patch again!

[joe84330]

Where's that rain Mr Rooo?

Well another day in the garden, clipping, shearing and ho ho ho-ing! (Christmas is coming!) Moving a few plants around and dividing them... I sure hope that rain or at least some comes soon...

I have decided that this blue flowering plant pictured, that almost looks like a Sweet Pea (I would say Pea family member) .... has to go.....

Had I known when I first planted it that it seeds its self like crazy and grows into every thing..... ...... I would have never had planted it....(at least I did not buy it!).

The locals use it for cooking and food decoration, and Thai men use it for dying their greying hair

Anyway tried to rid the garden of it yesterday and today, managed to murder one other vine to which I thought was the root of this....oops luckily had a replacement of it from I cutting I had made a few months ago...

So another experiment in the process of learning about habits of local plants!

My gardening book still has not appeared, so cannot look up the name... We'll call it "Blue pea plant"... just to keep things simple!

Oh darn! just made a double post!

hey jimmy i think that one is dok un chan, or un chan (sounds like anchan) it grows all over the fencing at a thai restaurant we eat lunch at a lot. they make a cold drink with it. you were on target with blue pea plant, as i think the western name would be butterfly pea plant.

[samuijimmy]

Where's that rain Mr Rooo?

Well another day in the garden, clipping, shearing and ho ho ho-ing! (Christmas is coming!) Moving a few plants around and dividing them... I sure hope that rain or at least some comes soon...

I have decided that this blue flowering plant pictured, that almost looks like a Sweet Pea (I would say Pea family member) .... has to go.....

Had I known when I first planted it that it seeds its self like crazy and grows into every thing..... ...... I would have never had planted it....(at least I did not buy it!).

The locals use it for cooking and food decoration, and Thai men use it for dying their greying hair

Anyway tried to rid the garden of it yesterday and today, managed to murder one other vine to which I thought was the root of this....oops luckily had a replacement of it from I cutting I had made a few months ago...

So another experiment in the process of learning about habits of local plants!

My gardening book still has not appeared, so cannot look up the name... We'll call it "Blue pea plant"... just to keep things simple!

Oh darn! just made a double post!

hey jimmy i think that one is dok un chan, or un chan (sounds like anchan) it grows all over the fencing at a thai restaurant we eat lunch at a lot. they make a cold drink with it. you were on target with blue pea plant, as i think the western name would be butterfly pea plant.

Hey Joey!

Yes, you see it a lot.... fine where it does not matter what is growing around it.... but not in my garden! The neighbours used to pop by and pick the flowers, with my blessing...

I found my book, it is called Butterfly Pea or Blue pea....(Clitoria ternates, for anyone wanting to get technical!)

It also come in white or purple, although I have never seen...

Edited December 17, 2011 by samuijimmy

[samuijimmy]

Longest Hand of Bananas I have ever seen.... over 50 bands of bananas, at least 6 feet long.... some where on Soi 1...

That will feed a lot of Monkeys! .... wonder if it will survive the weight when they all ripen?

[sbk]

Was just going to say, its a Butterfly pea, shampoo is made out of the flowers, supposed to be very good for dark hair. its called anchan in Thai

[samuijimmy]

Joe's been correct on his Thai versions of names so far, he must have a good source of a Translator! Good to get SBK's vitrifaction

So they actually make shampoo out of the Blue pea vine...? I've seen neighbours rubbing the flowers directly on their hair...

With this non rainy (for most part) "rainy season" ... it would be an idea to keep an eye on your potted plants as to whether they need water... if foliage wilting, they need a drink! ....

If any potted plants are really dry, it would be a good idea to add a little dish soap, this helps dry soil absorb and hold water... ( I have seen this with planters too, if they have dried out for too long... no amount of rain or water will be absorbed especially in dry coconut fibre.... which is the common source of soil mixes here.)

Plants under over hangs especially, don't get water even when it does rain.... so keep a close eye on those!

I seem to be out everyday watering things... actually too, wetting down new cuttings or divisions of things I have made lately ...

It also would be a good time to check potted plants to see if they need re-potting and up sizing the pot... Make sure to pull the roots apart or slash with a knife, so they don't continue going in circles... !

[GermanPrimrose]

Shampoo plants...interesting!

Do you guys know and grow pepinos?

[samuijimmy]

Shampoo plants...interesting!

Do you guys know and grow pepinos?

Oh! all kinds of interesting stuff, we have here...

But not seen Pepinos, ... perhaps up north around Chang Mai area? , as they originate in Spain...according to Wiki Leaks

[samuijimmy]

Well, it's just about the end of another year ! .... with very little rain to speak of here on the islands, it's possible going to create water shortages next year, unless the rainy season here has switch to March...... Who knows?

I've noticed lots of locals have been doing a "spring cleanup" around their gardens, even the verges along the Sois being trimmed back too...

Several people have asked me what to do about Rust on their plants lately... Not the same the shows up on metal!

Rust on plants shows up as bumpy brownish spots and large blotches, usually on the underside of the foliage... Common on Frangapani, Canna liles and roses, here. But can be seen on other plants too...

This kind of rust is a pathogen, caused a number of different fungal diseases. Like most fungal diseases, once it appears on a plant it's difficult to control. Rust is more unsightly than deadly .....it rarely does permanent damage to the plants it attacks, so that is the good news.

In the "West" there are several fungicides on the market that are used to treat rust. Horticultural oil or water mixed with copper, sulfur or even baking soda as their active ingredient. Once the rust is on leaf surfaces, fungicides limit only the spread of the disease. I've never seen Sulfur or copper sprays available here, but then too, I've not really looked either... (Baking Soda is also good to help prevent Black Spot on roses)

For total prevention you have to begin spraying before it appears and continue spraying throughout the year.

Baking Soda is easy to get here (baking section of Tesco, Big C etc) Mix 1 teaspoon with a litre of water and perhaps a dash of cooking oil, to help it stick... spray every 7 to 10 days... that gets a little tedious... ! .... not to mention time-consuming.

These are other options to consider:

• At the first sign of rust, (or Black spot on roses) remove infected leaves and toss them in the garbage bin or burn, do not put a compost pile!... not sure that anyone has compost bins here anyway!
  
• Avoid splashing the foliage with water. Wet leaves can encourage the arrival of rust.
  
• Water the base of the plants only .... watering in morning would be better than late afternoon or evening.
  

• Good air circulation around plants, especially near walls and fences.
  
• If cutting infected plants disinfect your pruners with a mild bleach solution when pruning plants prone to rust or other deceases for that matter.
  

Happy Gardening in 2012 !

[stevehaigh]

Tomatoes I have tried several times with no success... giving up on them! ... anyone have any luck with them here?

i grew some really nice big juicy toms on KPN. i got 'solar fire' seed on ebay, but there isn't any listed at the moment, wrong time of year for the US i guess.

the trick is finding the right potting soil, i found the one that is made of composed twigs and leaves works better than composted coconut husk.

i had quite a lot of bug bites on them because i didn't spray with anything, but i just cut out the bad bit and had no problem, but my toms would not have won a beauty contest.

[samuijimmy]

Tomatoes I have tried several times with no success... giving up on them! ... anyone have any luck with them here?

i grew some really nice big juicy toms on KPN. i got 'solar fire' seed on ebay, but there isn't any listed at the moment, wrong time of year for the US i guess.

the trick is finding the right potting soil, i found the one that is made of composed twigs and leaves works better than composted coconut husk.

i had quite a lot of bug bites on them because i didn't spray with anything, but i just cut out the bad bit and had no problem, but my toms would not have won a beauty contest.

Good for you Steve!

The tomato growing debate never seems to die! Perhaps when you find the Solar Star seed on Ebay, let members know, I think one or two might be interested. I would guess when the great white north is free of snow, they may appear!

Now tell us where you find good composted soil, not made from coconut fibre.... knowing minds want to know! or as Martha Stewart would say, "That would be a good thing"

[samuijimmy]

Several people have asked me what to do about Rust on their plants lately... Not the same the shows up on metal!

Rust on plants shows up as bumpy brownish spots and large blotches, usually on the underside of the foliage... Common on Frangapani, Canna liles and roses, here. But can be seen on other plants too...

Well, I lied a little, Rust is not just brown spots, and the top of the foliage too, it can vary from yellow to almost black! Here are few pics I took this morning of my poor suffering plants!

[samuijimmy]

We are off to a wet start to 2012! That may make a few more plants rusty!

But for plants cuttings have recently made, it's good, as it will help them take root... I for one often forget to head out and spray them down, when it is dry....

There are many plants that are easy to root, just from cuttings of branches or dividing.... some hibiscus I made cutting of just over a year ago are now 2 m tall (6 feet) ... really amazing when you think about it... but then too, there are some that just fizzle away.... especially when I do things that are out of sight.... easily forgotten...

Interesting seeing that people must be reading this, as figures since Dec 14 to date, are about 750 views...

Sure hope people are getting some benefit from the thread.... comments and input are always welcome.... Don't be shy! .... I try not to get too technical about things, often too my brain is not always fully functioning... mental blocks and just "old age" setting in !!!! Plus I don't always know the answer either.. but it's always a learning experience to try to find out... and there's SBK and a few members here help too....

But gardening is an interesting hobby, one that is never finished... and one never stops learning doing it... It does not matter whether in the tropics or in the coldest parts of the world...(over my adult life I have worked in most climate zones, Calgary Canada, being the coldest and hardest place to grow anything....( I can tell you I did not do that for very long!...... ) but then some things (basics) are the same no matter where you garden.... we just have to adapt to climate and local conditions... and even that can be different within short distances... soil, area, elevation and other local factors... learning from locals is useful too...

I noticed the other day my neighbours roses were doing better than mine (the two I have left...that is) They have placed charcoal around the plants..... even after the Epson Salts and fertilizer I have used! I know they do fertilize too. I see too in the first picture there are pieces of dead coral... the plants certainly look healthy... I now have charcoal around mine... they seem to have perked up a little....

If it stays wet, I may try to upload some more images over next few days... but your contributions of images or input are also welcome!

[joe84330]

i put pieces of charcoal into most of my potting soils. i let it soak for a few days in some fresh seaweed/well water and then shovel it in. helps make a nice home for the soil critters we need but rarely see.

[GermanPrimrose]

Hi + happy new year to all of you!

I finally managed to plant a primrose into my avatar

Charcoal around roses? And IN pots? And it doesn't damage the plants? I'm learning...

What does it do when placed on top of the soil like around the roses?

I only use charcoil powder from the barbecue grill when cutting ill tomnatoe branches from the bushes: I disinfect the cuts with it. That's all so far.

Greetz

GP

[samuijimmy]

Hi + happy new year to all of you!

I finally managed to plant a primrose into my avatar

Charcoal around roses? And IN pots? And it doesn't damage the plants? I'm learning...

What does it do when placed on top of the soil like around the roses?

I only use charcoil powder from the barbecue grill when cutting ill tomnatoe branches from the bushes: I disinfect the cuts with it. That's all so far.

Greetz

GP

Extended holiday there GP?

Your quote.... "Charcoal around roses? And IN pots? And it doesn't damage the plants? I'm learning...

What does it do when placed on top of the soil like around the roses?"

Well I am not sure what is in the charcoal, but it does seem to help... mine have perked up and greened up... just make sure it is cold before placing it around the plants...but then too, it could be the cool weather we are getting plus a couple or three days of needed rain !!!!

Then you said "I only use charcoil powder from the barbecue grill when cutting ill tomnatoe branches from the bushes: I disinfect the cuts with it."

Not using English spell check are we!!! ......

The ashes would provide Potassium, which is a good thing for flower development... and general health of plants... If I make a fire, I generally use the ashes around the plants... after it cools down! But as a disinfectant, I not heard of that, generally a solution of bleach does the trick on that....

I am not sure where Charcoal to actual ashes turn into potassium!...but would guess the charcoal starts turns into potassium.... at some point.... ?

Potassium is the middle number in the fertilizer formulas N. P. K (Nitrogen Potassium and Phosphorus) so 15 15 15 written on the bag would be equal ratio of each... Some fertilizer formulas would also include trace elements, such as iron, boron etc ... etc.... which can be just as important to plants...

[joe84330]

charcoal lumps provide a home for all the illegal undocumented non visa having microbes that are a necessary part of any good organic soil.

just don't use any from after the fires that thai's start using plastic bottles. the ash left over from the fire (without plastic) is necessary for root development and flowering. also swimming pools but this is the gardening forum. everybody comments on how thick and green my lawn is, due in large part to my super secret ash mixed with seaweed water recipe that gets sprayed on every couple of weeks.

[samuijimmy]

charcoal lumps provide a home for all the illegal undocumented non visa having microbes that are a necessary part of any good organic soil.

just don't use any from after the fires that thai's start using plastic bottles. the ash left over from the fire (without plastic) is necessary for root development and flowering. also swimming pools but this is the gardening forum. everybody comments on how thick and green my lawn is, due in large part to my super secret ash mixed with seaweed water recipe that gets sprayed on every couple of weeks.

Seaweed water?

Please expand on that! You have to give away your secret formulation, there Joe! How you apply etc....

I know we discussed seaweed sometime ago, as being good for plants... Living on a beach makes it easier to collect seaweed.... not always easy to find on some beaches either...

Yeah ... my fires never have Plastic, all goes in the recycle bin and gets collected by the first guy who drives by and picks it up, when I put it by the gate ... (Cans and bottles too!)

[GermanPrimrose]

Hi!

Not using English spell check are we!!! ......

Are you referring to my tomnatoes? They're a special species: Tornado-resistent tomatoes The first seeds were provided by the NATO and...alright, alright, you got me, I'll use that chell-specker...

Potassium is the K in NPK fertilizer. I read up a little on charcoal, and you're right, it's containing potassium. However it's recommendable to use a small amount of ashes as fertilizer instead of whole charcoal lumps as those would lead to overfertilizing. But you said that some Thai just put the lumps around the plant and not in the ground around the plant...it gets washed in little by little, I guess. So I read on, and it seems that those lumps help fight fungi etc. Could it be that charcoil on the ground around roses helps prevent rust etc.?

Some gardeners put a tiny piece of charcoal in the water in which they keep their cuttings for root-building or put it under the glass which covers the cuttings which they put in a pot right away to keep bacteria and fungi out.

Charcoal also helps the garden soil to keep its nutritients as it slows down the washing-out.

The ashes or charcoil lumps should come from untreated wood.

Among the plants which especially like a dish of ashes are tomnnn...atoes and peonies.

Greetz

GP

Edited January 9, 2012 by GermanPrimrose

[samuijimmy]

Hi!

Not using English spell check are we!!! ......

Are you referring to my tomnatoes? They're a special species: Tornado-resistent tomatoes The first seeds were provided by the NATO and...alright, alright, you got me, I'll use that chell-specker...

Potassium is the K in NPK fertilizer. I read up a little on charcoal, and you're right, it's containing potassium. However it's recommendable to use a small amount of ashes as fertilizer instead of whole charcoal lumps as those would lead to overfertilizing. But you said that some Thai just put the lumps around the plant and not in the ground around the plant...it gets washed in little by little, I guess. So I read on, and it seems that those lumps help fight fungi etc. Could it be that charcoil on the ground around roses helps prevent rust etc.?

Some gardeners put a tiny piece of charcoal in the water in which they keep their cuttings for root-building or put it under the glass which covers the cuttings which they put in a pot right away to keep bacteria and fungi out.

Charcoal also helps the garden soil to keep its nutritients as it slows down the washing-out.

The ashes or charcoil lumps should come from untreated wood.

Among the plants which especially like a dish of ashes are tomnnn...atoes and peonies.

Greetz

GP

Thanks GP that's most helpful information there....

I always did get my K and P mixed up, oh well !!! another senior moment!

The two help in producing stronger plants and flower /fruit production.. the nitrogen for green growth. The K for flowers... but stronger plants should produce better all round health of plants... also trace elements, which some fertilizer formulations have...

Interesting info on the charcoal helping control, fungi too .... many Thai's make there own there own charcoal, by letting wood burn down in a large tin container, then use on BBQ usually... that was the first time I had seen on their pot plants! (roses)!....

With our commonly sandy soils we have here, it would act as a "slow release" way of fertilizing, as fertilizer needs organic matter to cling too, or it just washes through... as it has nothing to "cling" on too.....

As for tomnatoes... developed for Tornado, resistance, that's interesting... I guess big seller in Tornado Ally in USA,? as not common in most other parts of the world (are they?..certainly not as frequent or strong anyway. )

I guess Mr Joe is not giving up his Seaweed formula!????

[joe84330]

hey jimmy, i've been south of the border for a few days.

the secret formula is a matter of extreme precision and a total devotion to quality control.

start with an empty large plastic garbage bin, i think mine is 75l. fill it up a third of the way with fresh seaweed. add 1 bucket of rabbit poop, one bucket of ash from your firepit and then top the bin off with water. stir for a few minutes, cover and let it sit for a few days. stir again, siphon off the liquid and spray it over your lawn. the solids go into the compost pile. start over. should be enough for more than 1000sq ft of lawn every month. if you don't have a compost pile, just side dress/mulch your plants. very little nitrogen in the mix, and what is there won't burn anything. you can also take the liquid, double its volume with more fresh water and use it as a foliar feed each week.

i'm experimenting with the recipe now by adding the last warm undrinkable ounce or so from every bottle of beer chang into the brew. 4 liters into that original mix in the large bin should be enough to notice a difference, we'll see.

[joe84330]

if you want leaf growth rather than flowering or root development, go down to one of the waterfalls and collect elephant poop to substitute for the rabbit. wouldn't recommend foliar feeding with this one though, but your lawn won't complain either way.

[samuijimmy]

if you want leaf growth rather than flowering or root development, go down to one of the waterfalls and collect elephant poop to substitute for the rabbit. wouldn't recommend foliar feeding with this one though, but your lawn won't complain either way.

Oh so you did find a bunny wabbit.... you never told us that! .... is it a boy wabbit or girl wabbit? Get two and you'll have lots of poop in no time .... lots of wabbits too...

Lots of buffalo stuff around too, try that as well!

So is the Chang beer part, before or after you drink it?

Well keep on experimenting and keep us updated on formulations and results !!!!

[joe84330]

i've been keeping rabbits for more than a year now jimmy, just looking for different genes that's all.

plenty of buffalo crap to use but as far as i'm concerned, rabbit and elephant are the best (for different reasons and seasons) no question about it.

[samuijimmy]

We would not want in-breeding rabbits !

When I head south (Songkhla) I see more Thai's with rabbits than you do here, although have seen on Koh Phangan ... next time I get over there, I'll ask one place where they get them from, I would suspect on Mainland, knowing they have a second home in Surrathanni city.

Well, we seem to be into a period of drizzly rain not to mention it being pleasantly cool as well... ( I know the tourist are not happy about that ).....It's starting to put massive growth on all the plants I pruned a few weeks ago... makes for a never ending cycle of keeping up with the garden!... oh the weed seeds germinating too

I came across a Thai using Dolomite lime the other day, something I never seen anyone using here, or even know it was available... Apparently there is a shop, I've yet to find south of Nanthon, I think behind the new Chevrolet dealership (??) ... (I will check that out one day! and post) .... But he was using lime on every thing, when planting, which is not necessarily good!

I do think though it maybe good to use on roses.... the magnesium sulphate (Epson Salts) I've used seems to have helped, also the charcoal .... problem is one is never 100% sure which is actually providing the benefit! perhaps a combination of all these things.... ?

In using lime, one needs to be careful, not all plants would need it... I've tried to do some research into soil ph, but not found any good information for the Islands here.... The bags of mixed soil you can buy here, I believe is marked 6 to 7.5 ph. 7 .... 7 would be high.... alkaline (Lime) ... Most plants would be happy with a PH of 5.5 to 6.5... (not all, but it seems to be hard to get the information, even from books) ....

The thing about using dolomite lime is you cannot / should not apply fertilizer at the same time, as the lime will "lock up" the fertilizer until the lime has dissipated ... Three weeks to a month is generally required before any fertilizer would be of use... although in sandy soils, perhaps less... but in sandy soils it's better to add organic matter, to give something for fertilizer to "cling" too.... otherwise fertilizer will just wash through... (not so environmentally friendly !) ----- Dolomite lime, is coarser than hydrated lime, therefore breaks down more slowly.... For anyone looking for it, the name "dolomite lime" sounds the same in Thai as English, that seems to be the same for most "chemicals" .... I wish it was the same with plant names!

Some soils here become like concrete too, especially when it dries out....... therefore using organic materials such as coconut fibre (etc) would help keep they soil more open & workable, not to mention allow air to the roots of plants too. ... it should be worked into the soil, rather than placed just on top....

Well this has eaten up about an hour of time on a rainy day! .... now what to do???

[stevehaigh]

Anyone had much luck with Roses...?

i never have luck with roses here, i wish the wife would stop buying them.

i'm in phuket now so i guess i'm cheating on this forum but we don't have a gardening thread.

i have about 40+ orchids in flower at the moment, they look amazing! i never had much luck with orchids in KPN and i think it was because my house was too close to the sea, they didn't like the sea air.

now i'm about 1km from the sea and they love it here.

[joe84330]

i have always thought of roses as a hobby for old people. you shouldn't read any disrespect into that either.

young people just don't care about gardening or farming because they simply can't put 2 and 2 together.

adults understand the necessity, and eventually the need to escape from it and then do a quick u-turn back to it and grow accordingly.

the way i see it, only once you've been through each previous stage successfully would you understand and have available the time, resources, knowledge and appreciation at your disposal to grow roses.

but, you're still old.

[samuijimmy]

Steve, having problems with quote tags... so after second attempt your questions / comments are not included

Hey Steve, no problem, we won't tell any one, you are from that other place!

Ah roses! well they are sold in many varieties, mostly Hybrid T types.... but for the most part seem to be short lived and tough to keep going, here in the south... I have brought probably 20 since living here and have two hanging in there, currently undergoing the charcoal experiment....

Another type of plant, of what I keep repeating .... need the cooler nights (better in northern Thailand, I think, if anyone in northern Thailand reading this... Do your roses do well up there???? You are allowed to answer! ).

There is a red one which seems to do better... I will try to dig up a picture and post... not much of a scent to it though....

It could also be something to do with the root stock they are grown on too....? ( I am not certain about that, but was an issue with roses especially the "cheap ones" sold usually in packages in the great white north!!!!)

A few of the hybrid T types I have seen do better here, are usually in partial shade...

This red type, does seem to do well, I see both here on Samui and KP.... I would suspect probably your area too... I not been there so I am not sure, but seem to remember seeing in Krabi area...

But I have yet to see this red one for sale in a garden shop here... perhaps on the mainland?

Many of the better plants never seem to be available locally... "farang" want they used to grow at home! Living up north would be a better place to be to do that!

Orchids and me don't seem to get along, yet you see some beautiful ones around... so perhaps share a few tips and tricks that you have!

Edited January 16, 2012 by samuijimmy

[samuijimmy]

i have always thought of roses as a hobby for old people. you shouldn't read any disrespect into that either.

young people just don't care about gardening or farming because they simply can't put 2 and 2 together.

adults understand the necessity, and eventually the need to escape from it and then do a quick u-turn back to it and grow accordingly.

the way i see it, only once you've been through each previous stage successfully would you understand and have available the time, resources, knowledge and appreciation at your disposal to grow roses.

but, you're still old.

Well, can't say i can agree with you there Mr Joe, I see young ones out in the garden helping Mumma or Pappa all the time around me, it also surprises me, that many younger Thai's seem to have a good knowledge of gardening and plants.... they may not use western practices, but seem to get out and get their hands in the "dirt"....

Now.... with western kids... well I think you are right though!

As for roses being for old people.... your time will come!

[joe84330]

i have always thought of roses as a hobby for old people. you shouldn't read any disrespect into that either.

young people just don't care about gardening or farming because they simply can't put 2 and 2 together.

adults understand the necessity, and eventually the need to escape from it and then do a quick u-turn back to it and grow accordingly.

the way i see it, only once you've been through each previous stage successfully would you understand and have available the time, resources, knowledge and appreciation at your disposal to grow roses.

but, you're still old.

Well, can't say i can agree with you there Mr Joe, I see young ones out in the garden helping Mumma or Pappa all the time around me, it also surprises me, that many younger Thai's seem to have a good knowledge of gardening and plants.... they may not use western practices, but seem to get out and get their hands in the "dirt"....

Now.... with western kids... well I think you are right though!

As for roses being for old people.... your time will come!

my time is gonna come, but only in the form of a led zepplin song!