Throng Of Tuk Tuk Drivers Deliver Major Beat Down To Two Tourists On Patong.

[thepanicandthevomit]

You have and apology accepted!

[cotambear]

Things like this are over as quick as they start. Unlikely footage will ever materialise. I would like to hear from the other Thai Visa members that witnessed the event, to hear if their account differs in any way from the OP. No disrespect 'Scubabuddha', I generally like your posts, but lets face it, 20 people was probably really 12 and I would guess no more than 8 of them landed any punches or kicks. Don't get me wrong that's still atrocious behaviour, but goes to show how things get exaggerated and blown way out of proportion. Think about it, 20 people around a Tuk Tuk! it would be physically impossible for them all to be actively involved. Unless they formed a queue of course. From the sound of the OP you would expect people to be on deaths door. The truth is probably a bruise or two. Again not making light of what happened, people just need to put a reality check on things.

Oh thats alright then. Thanks for putting my mind at rest.

[JOESHEAD]

Extraordinary...

Thank you.

[NamKangMan]

My discussion with 'F1fanatic' was talking in general terms and not referring to the original incident particularly, so your sarcasm, asking me if I knew the victims personally, is wasted.

I think my original post was as about balanced and neural as they come. I said the drivers were wrong to retaliate the way they did, but there is a good chance, if not in this case then certainly in others, that they instigated their own beating with their behaviour, to which I have no sympathy. My lack of sympathy doesn't change just because their punishment was harsher than it needed to be.

When 'NKMan' asked 'what will happen when 8 young guys on holiday refuse to get ripped off? he is undoubtedly implying that the tourists should be felt sorry for. When 'Thongkon' said 'people do silly things on holiday, you just let things go' he also was relieving the tourist of any blame. Just two examples of un-neutral posts, I'm sure there's plenty more.

When you made your OP, it was just another, good old Thai Visa, anti tuk tuk post, where things always get blown out of proportion (I think the post about Thai men beating up old grannies is the new target to beat) I just think if they're going to get the constant attention (a lot of it deserved) then the pond life Farang, that are more often than not at the center of all trouble, should get a fair mention as well.

Joe, statistically, we are seing more and more negative incidents reported within this industry. I don't care who was at fault, however, 20 tuk-tuk drivers bashing 2 passengers draws attention, and that attention, is negative attention, and that negative attention results in lower numbers of passengers, which, I suspect, goes to increasing prices, in order to still maintain a similar profit margin (typic Thai business ethics). However, this will just create future conflict with passengers and more arguments, and when an argument ensues, that seems to be a green light for 20 other drivers to join in and bash the passengers and there's more negative publicity.

Even if the 2 passengers, in this case, were in the wrong, HOW, can you justify the other 19 drivers joing in to bash the 2 passengers???? If this is an indication of the character of people who drive tuk-tuks in Phuket, what future has this industry got. The word is spreading through the media and internet not to use them, because of THEIR actions, not the actions of their passengers.

[JOESHEAD]

'F1fanatic', you've missed the point of his post twice now and I'm fairly sure you're still none the wiser. Never fear though, that just means you're nice normal folk. He was in fact copying the previous poster and having a dig at me, it would seem using a pretend syndrome. The joke is well and truly on him though, because I haven't wet the bed for ages.

[ScubaBuddha]

I didn't realize you knew the victims personally and had seen how this incident started. Glad we got that started out. We can close the book and the thread on this one now.

BTW, why do you keep saying everyone is feeling sorry for the tourists and everyone is blaming the Thai's that started it? The posts have been fairly neutral and balanced. Your creating an argument against a position which doesn't exist. Everyone here knows that the tourists may have done something to start this.

My discussion with 'F1fanatic' was talking in general terms and not referring to the original incident particularly, so your sarcasm, asking me if I knew the victims personally, is wasted.

Apparently it's not wasted. You've been making these same assumptions about the victims from the beginning, and now you are retracting. Good decision there.

When you made your OP, it was just another, good old Thai Visa, anti tuk tuk post,

The original post was exactly how it happened. And believe it or not I actually have posted positive things about tuk tuks before. (once one actually stopped to let me enter traffic!) It would be hard to color it so the tuk tuks came out looking good in this one, (but apparently they will as I was just told by the editor of a local news source the police are denying this incident took place.) I even stated that I didn't know how it started. I guarantee that if the number of Thai's involved wasn't in the 20's it was very close to it. The exact number is irrelevant. Certainly more than 12 to 8. The number involved was even discussed with my mates after. And yes they actually were taking turns. And as I also said the incident started outside the tuk tuks and the tourists retreated into the tuk tuk as some kind of shelter.

I am told that at least one other witness will be along soon to confirm my story as soon as he can get online.

[JOESHEAD]

Joe, statistically, we are seing more and more negative incidents reported within this industry. I don't care who was at fault, however, 20 tuk-tuk drivers bashing 2 passengers draws attention, and that attention, is negative attention, and that negative attention results in lower numbers of passengers, which, I suspect, goes to increasing prices, in order to still maintain a similar profit margin (typic Thai business ethics). However, this will just create future conflict with passengers and more arguments, and when an argument ensues, that seems to be a green light for 20 other drivers to join in and bash the passengers and there's more negative publicity.

Even if the 2 passengers, in this case, were in the wrong, HOW, can you justify the other 19 drivers joing in to bash the 2 passengers???? If this is an indication of the character of people who drive tuk-tuks in Phuket, what future has this industry got. The word is spreading through the media and internet not to use them, because of THEIR actions, not the actions of their passengers.

Good post mate, although I must admit it threw me for a while, what with lack of sarcasm and bias. I'm afraid I still don't agree with you though.

On Thai Visa, there's never anybody saying I told you so. I said this would happen and boom, there's the proof. It's only ever people making predictions that never come to fruition. The death of tourism in Phuket, the death of Tuk Tuks bla bla bla. It never happens.

What people never get in to their heads, is for every, shock horror story on Thai Visa, Tuk Tuks have ferried tens of thousands of satisfied customers. People who weren't drunk, people who weren't abusive, people who didn't think there should be a baht bus, just people who wanted to get from A to B for 300 baht. That's why they were here 10 years ago, thats why they are here now, and that's why they will probably be here in 10 years time.

[ALFREDO]

I spent all together in the last 20 years some years in Patong. I had never a big need to use Tuk Tuks or Motobike taxis, because I drive myself with car and Motobike. But sometimes I used and I use Tuk Tuks and Motobike taxis.

I had never a bigger problem, I usualy drink not much alcohol and when, than I am still friendly and polite, my English is good, but Thai I still speak only some words which I always use.

If the prices are to high they ask for, I say sorry, to expensive and usualy look for another driver.

The price from Bangla to Nanai should now be in the early morning hours 200 B. when I on the way to a sexy adventure, I have no problem to pay that 4,5 Euro. I can live with that.

Motobike is now about 40-50 Baht for Nanai to Soi Bangla, once a driver asked for 100 B. There is no argument than, I just move on.

[JOESHEAD]

I am told that at least one other witness will be along soon to confirm my story as soon as he can get online.

So that'll be one of your mates then??

Let me guess, it happened just how you said.

I haven't retracted anything I've said, as you claim. Sometimes conversations evolve and look at things on a larger scale. Apologies if you couldn't keep up. I have never said that I know what the Farang did, if anything, to cause the fracas, just that the probability was high that it was their own doing. The bigger picture was then being discussed. Other Tuk Tuk incidents and other bad behaviour by Farangs. Again, apologies if you couldn't keep up with the pace of the conversation.

Your posts in the past have made it quite clear, that you are moments away from starting an anti Tuk Tuk movement, and dedicating your whole life to it. They're not that bad. Let it go.

[JOESHEAD]

I spent all together in the last 20 years some years in Patong. I had never a big need to use Tuk Tuks or Motobike taxis, because I drive myself with car and Motobike. But sometimes I used and I use Tuk Tuks and Motobike taxis.

I had never a bigger problem, I usualy drink not much alcohol and when, than I am still friendly and polite, my English is good, but Thai I still speak only some words which I always use.

If the prices are to high they ask for, I say sorry, to expensive and usualy look for another driver.

The price from Bangla to Nanai should now be in the early morning hours 200 B. when I on the way to a sexy adventure, I have no problem to pay that 4,5 Euro. I can live with that.

Motobike is now about 40-50 Baht for Nanai to Soi Bangla, once a driver asked for 100 B. There is no argument than, I just move on.

Alfredo you have made my night. Not only is your attitude spot on, but you express yourself better than most native English speakers on TV do. Dramas are so easily avoided if you're not an idiot. The huge majority of people get by in Thailand and Phuket without any run ins. Those of you that don't, maybe it's just you.

Lets face it, when you're on the way to a 'sexy adventure' who cares who's driving?

[Ping]

There are some good folk amongst the tuk tuk driver people and there are some bad. I've seen them perform good samaritan deeds and I've seen them commit disgusting acts of violence as well. The most recent was a savage attack on a drunken and obnoxious farang - far beyond any level of justification (the farang was beaten unconscious by a mob of them and then continued to be kicked and beaten). There are proper ways of dealing with obnoxious drunks; it's a job for the BiB. The police situation and the environment in Phuket is totally different from the way that things are done in the rural provinces. Unfortunately, these people coming from the provinces to work in Phuket don't seem to understand that.

Despite the good ones amongst them, the tuk tuk industry in Phuket is an organised, extortionate mob - nothing more, nothing less. And the types of folks who are attracted to work in this type of industry are often going to be overly represented by thugs. There needs to be a total revamp of the industry to prevent the licensing of these thugs and the Governor needs to expedite his efforts to eradicate extortionate fares. And there also needs to be proper training of drivers and a liaison between them and the BiB so that they can rely upon the police to deal with these types of situations, where necessary. There also needs to be some effort to train police to take action in these matters that would act as a deterrent to violence - such as actually investigating these incidents at the scene rather than merely slinging the bruised and battered farang into the back of the ute and driving off. (Yes, there are other cultural issues of payoffs and associations that will also need to be addressed, with all the implications that this brings, and it certainly could not happen overnight. But someone needs to step up to the mark (Governor?) and begin to tackle this thorny issue.)

For those BMs who seek to justify the behaviour of the drivers, consider the way in which these types of situations are handled in your home country; and then imagine the outcry that would occur if the Phuket TTM approach were prevalent in your own home country.

E:T

Edited April 10, 2010 by Ping

[cdmtdm]

On kata beach yesterday afternoon i saw a tuk tuk driver beating the hel_l out of a thai girl with a huge tree trunk it was terrible. A crowd of about 70 people watched it and some of the tourists recorded it on their camcorders. The girl was a right mess with an 8 inch gash on her head and looked like a broken arm too... the police came and took him away and the log too. The girl was rushed off to hospital.

very bad image of phuket imo.

what a disgrace ..... 70 people watching and on one stepped in to help a defenseless girl being beaten by a thug with a log....... you and the other crowd should be ashamed , gutless cowards , this is where the problem stems from no one has any balls anymore ..... what happened to the simple RIGHT and Wrong ..... hope you slept well ...........

[Seelow]

The amount of people coming to Phuket will never be affected by Tuk Tuk drivers, I assure you of that.

That Mr.Joeshead is where you are so very very wrong.

I totally refuse to be held hostage by these thugs charging more than a London taxi, so in November my wife and three other family members have booked into Kotakinabalu instead.

So Mr. JH, you are wrong 5 times already!

[ScubaBuddha]

what a disgrace ..... 70 people watching and on one stepped in to help a defenseless girl being beaten by a thug with a log....... you and the other crowd should be ashamed , gutless cowards , this is where the problem stems from no one has any balls anymore ..... what happened to the simple RIGHT and Wrong ..... hope you slept well ...........

Calling the guy a gutless coward is a bit premature. The description was a bit brief. It's easy to be a keyboard warrior but we weren't there so we don't know the exact details. I agree the "bystander effect" as it is called can be disturbing. Physiologically and sociologically the bystander effect is very similar to the mob effect. In the prior the bystander thinks someone else will surely so something since their are so many people. Why should it be them? The individual stops seeing themselves as an individual and instead they see themselves as just a small part of a large organism. This rationalizes the bystanders non-action. They will think someone else has probably called the police.

Having said that, I will add going one on one with a log wielding tuk tuk driver who we all know will be backed up by his tuk tuk mafia mates is a recipe for suicide. Then potentially spending some time and money with the BIB to get it sorted is not a nice prospect. One would think that you coming to the aid of a woman being beaten by a man with a weapon which can kill, that you would be seen as the good guy by anyone witnessing it, but we all know that a man beating a woman does not carry the same taboo it does in the west. Some may remember my post about seeing the Thai man beating the Thai woman and whether I should have intervened. The majority of responses to that thread were to leave it alone, not my country/not my problem. A bit surprising to hear from on-Thai's as that is the Thai way, not as much so in the west, although of course it still happens. Overwhelmingly the Thai's I spoke to about this incident said leave it alone. Don't stop, don't call the police.

Also, generally speaking it has been shown foreigners in any country have a tendency for inaction for fear of getting deported if events are twisted to be against them.

The bystander effect happens in every culture, but non interference, even with the police, is much more common here. There is a youtube video of a fight in Pattaya where the cops arrive, make a half hearted effort to seperate the 2-3 women fighting, then give up and let them at it as the growing crowd of mostly Thai's cheer at the police's decision to let them continue fighting. Really disgusting stuff.

Often being a good witness and call 191 or 1155 is the best and only thing you can do. If I had a recording of the incident I would take it to the police.

Your posts in the past have made it quite clear, that you are moments away from starting an anti Tuk Tuk movement, and dedicating your whole life to it. They're not that bad. Let it go.

Not a bad idea, if I didn't think I would eventually be found dead in a ditch somewhere. I think the anti tuk tuk movement is starting all by itself. It doesn't need my help.

It looks like someone has already got a domain name. I recently found this site. http://www.phukettuktuks.com/

Really surprising there are actually people defending them on this thread, but this is Thai Visa so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

JOESHEAD, I'm curious, do you perhaps have some inlaws that drive tuk tuks?

Edited April 11, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[NamKangMan]

Good post mate, although I must admit it threw me for a while, what with lack of sarcasm and bias. I'm afraid I still don't agree with you though.

On Thai Visa, there's never anybody saying I told you so. I said this would happen and boom, there's the proof. It's only ever people making predictions that never come to fruition. The death of tourism in Phuket, the death of Tuk Tuks bla bla bla. It never happens.

What people never get in to their heads, is for every, shock horror story on Thai Visa, Tuk Tuks have ferried tens of thousands of satisfied customers. People who weren't drunk, people who weren't abusive, people who didn't think there should be a baht bus, just people who wanted to get from A to B for 300 baht. That's why they were here 10 years ago, thats why they are here now, and that's why they will probably be here in 10 years time.

I've never predicted the death of Phuket - I have, however, stated in previous posts, that I believe they are outpricing themselves from a very big slice of the tourism market, due to rapidly rising prices on the island, for no explainable economic reason.

As far as tuk-tuks, I have sat on Beach Road and had lunch, several times, usually for about an hour a pop. I haven't seen many people engage tuk-tuks for their service, and, considering they span just about the whole length of Beach Road, I am wondering how they now earn a living, without ripping off the odd customer they do get. Seriously, the tuk-tuk at the back of the que, he must get 1 fare a week as it must take a week for him to get to the front of the que.

Joe, you seem to shoot posts down in flames at a rate in which you believe your posts are being shot down, how about you supply the readers of TV with your observations, facts, statistics etc. I don't read anything concrete coming out of your posts except for if a guy who has had a few beers decides to argue why he should pay 10 times more money than he did in Bangkok for a journey 10 times shorter, he deserves to be bashed, robbed and possibly stabbed.

[katabeachbum]

Long thread

Facts

Yellow tuk tuk with 2 farang passangers in Bangla walking street. At least 20 tuk tuk drivers beat up the 2 passangers while they are still inside the tuk tuk. Beaten badly. Try to cover themself and beg the beating to stop. I interfere, and few seconds later a policeofficer surface, so the beating stops.

previous thoughts has been only the co op owned tuk tuks (approx 80% of the tuk tuks) are bad guys. This was a privately owned tuk tuk, Tabien leck.

Ironicly few hours earlier the president of TAT gave a speach welcoming us to Phuket Bike Week, and welcoming all tourists to Phuket for Songkran.

The tuk tuks must be controlled. Now

Edited April 11, 2010 by katabeachbum

[cdmtdm]

Calling the guy a gutless coward is a bit premature. The description was a bit brief. It's easy to be a keyboard warrior but we weren't there so we don't know the exact details. I agree the "bystander effect" as it is called can be disturbing. Physiologically and sociologically the bystander effect is very similar to the mob effect. In the prior the bystander thinks someone else will surely so something since their are so many people. Why should it be them? The individual stops seeing themselves as an individual and instead they see themselves as just a small part of a large organism. This rationalizes the bystanders non-action. They will think someone else has probably called the police.

Having said that, I will add going one on one with a log wielding tuk tuk driver who we all know will be backed up by his tuk tuk mafia mates is a recipe for suicide. Then potentially spending some time and money with the BIB to get it sorted is not a nice prospect. One would think that you coming to the aid of a woman being beaten by a man with a weapon which can kill, that you would be seen as the good guy by anyone witnessing it, but we all know that a man beating a woman does not carry the same taboo it does in the west. Some may remember my post about seeing the Thai man beating the Thai woman and whether I should have intervened. The majority of responses to that thread were to leave it alone, not my country/not my problem. A bit surprising to hear from on-Thai's as that is the Thai way, not as much so in the west, although of course it still happens. Overwhelmingly the Thai's I spoke to about this incident said leave it alone. Don't stop, don't call the police.

Also, generally speaking it has been shown foreigners in any country have a tendency for inaction for fear of getting deported if events are twisted to be against them.

The bystander effect happens in every culture, but non interference, even with the police, is much more common here. There is a youtube video of a fight in Pattaya where the cops arrive, make a half hearted effort to seperate the 2-3 women fighting, then give up and let them at it as the growing crowd of mostly Thai's cheer at the police's decision to let them continue fighting. Really disgusting stuff.

Often being a good witness and call 191 or 1155 is the best and only thing you can do. If I had a recording of the incident I would take it to the police.

scub ........ been in similar situations all over the world but never here in Thailand and to be honest i could not give a shit about the attacker my point is why did someone not drag the girl away or shield her from more injury? .... that has been and would always be my first move .... protect the victim esp a woman...then let the situation unfold , if it means 20 tuk tuk midgets trying out some muay thai moves so be it .... and no it is not acceptable in Thailand anymore to beat women that is old school ..... the sooner we all start to step up esp in public places with these types of incidents the better we will all be .......remember most bullys are cowards .... 70 bystanders and one bully beating a woman with a weapon , imagine if it was your daughter , mother or sister then we need to use those same instincts to act in these situations no excuses ....

Cheers

[fiddlehead]

There's a simple solution to this whole tuk tuk driver problem:

Just ban men from driving tuk tuks.

Thai women only.

Things will clean up in a hurry.

[xylophone]

I have lived in Patong now for three years and have visited the place for over six years, so I have some knowledge of the area.

IMO there is an increasing level of tension simmering under the surface and it is certainly becoming more visible now, despite the fact that the police are under strict orders to prevent anything which would harm tourism from being published. This I know from "first-hand" experience in relation to a shooting about 8 months ago.

It does not take an obnoxious farang to initiate a brawl with a Tuk Tuk driver, because very often they are looking for trouble. The incident in Rat-U-Thid Road where a farang was set upon by Tuk Tuk drivers as he lay injured in the road because his bike caused some very minor damage to a taxi parked nearby, is fairly typical.

I and friends have experienced the same animosity towards farangs, and to cite a few incidents: --

I was walking home down my fairly dimly lit Soi early one morning when I was accosted by a Thai man who proceeded to swing punches and kicks at me for no reason whatsoever. I fended these off and shouted very loudly at him before moving swiftly into my house.

A friend was walking up Bangla Road at around 2 AM, and was fairly drunk, and again for no reason, a Thai man walked up to him and punched him in the face a couple of times and also swung a couple of kicks at his knee, injuring it. I saw him just moments later and he was in shock. He is not an aggressive person, and certainly after a couple of drinks is the sort of person who would fall asleep at the bar.

Another guy I know, and this happened just a few weeks ago, a big, lumbering, passive and gentle giant, who is over 65 years of age, and who often drinks water when he is out for the evening, decided to visit a Soi beside of the Aussie bar. That night he was drinking alcohol and was a little worse for wear, however as he was walking out from the Soi, a Thai man leant over the railing of a bar, and hit him in the face with his fist and then struck him on the head with a blunt instrument, causing him some quite horrendous facial injuries. Why??? No reason other than he could.

The last three incidents have something in common, inasmuch as no aggression from the farang, however the Thai perpetrators decided that because the farangs were somewhat incapacitated because of alcohol, that they would be fair game to attack, for no reason other than the fact that they would have the advantage.

And as for it being just something against farangs, last night I met an English guy and his heavily pregnant Thai wife, who were pushing their young son in a pram, and who inquired as to the cost of a Tuk Tuk from the top of Bangla Road, up Soi San Sabai and then Soi Banzaan (a distance of perhaps 1 km or less) and they were quoted almost twice the normal price. The guy explained that it was very hot and his Thai wife was struggling but it made no difference to the price. They were determined that they were not going to pay the extortionate price, so they both decided to take a steady walk. So much for compassion.

Finally, as for those naive posters who think that calling the police will help, that is an absolute joke because they are as corrupt as can be, and will almost always take the side of the Thai because that way they can extort money from the farang in order to a). Sort the situation out; . Ensure that the farang will not have to spend time in prison whilst waiting for the "case to be heard" ;c). Pay compensation because a Thai has lost face, lost earnings etc; d). Pay for damages which may or may not have been done by the farang; e). Pay money so that the police can make the case go away.

I'm sure you get the picture........... and this influence also spreads to the local press inasmuch as they are often instructed by the police not to publish/print anything about incidents (especially the serious ones) which occur here.

I'm afraid to say that even the gentlest or well-behaved person still stands a chance of an act of violence being committed against them in this place.

[logbags]

IMO there is an increasing level of tension simmering under the surface and it is certainly becoming more visible now

##Biology basics. Too many people competing for a limited and shrinking tourist $ pie combined with a totally corrupt system people are forced to live under. Combine this with a growing social divide between the haves and have nots, high rents etc and you get some pretty pissed off people.

Add in substances like alcohol and meth and violence is a certainty. Some say violence is the language of the inarticulate, people who cannot explain or show their frustration any other way only have violence to express themselves. I too have noticed this tension building up but it is only really in places like Patong where it is really bad.

Thailand stands in a very dangerous position at present. It must decide if it seriously wants tourists, because if it does it must get its shit together as more and more people are expressing doubts about the merits of holidaying there with the present violence, rip offs etc.

The tuk tuk problem is a classic case of people being allowed to get away with too much for too long without being sanctioned for wrongdoing. This gets down to law and order issues and the system in Thailand is hopelessly corrupt. People must vote with their wallet and not give in to rip of merchants.

This forum is a place where people should actively promote good businesses and shame the rip off merchants. Unfortunately there are still too many Thais who think every Farang has a money tree growing in his backyard.

[barky]

Long thread

Facts

Yellow tuk tuk with 2 farang passangers in Bangla walking street. At least 20 tuk tuk drivers beat up the 2 passangers while they are still inside the tuk tuk. Beaten badly. Try to cover themself and beg the beating to stop. I interfere, and few seconds later a policeofficer surface, so the beating stops.

previous thoughts has been only the co op owned tuk tuks (approx 80% of the tuk tuks) are bad guys. This was a privately owned tuk tuk, Tabien leck.

Ironicly few hours earlier the president of TAT gave a speach welcoming us to Phuket Bike Week, and welcoming all tourists to Phuket for Songkran.

The tuk tuks must be controlled. Now

I have said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, events like the one(s) described here and almost all other events of this, or similar nature are all down to mainly two reasons.

Firstly, the almost total absence in the populace at large of a law-abiding culture, or fear of the law, respect of the law if you like.

They don't fear the law simply because they know it can be bought and in the case of westeners there is an un-written law known by ALL Thais that in the vast majority of cases no matter what the circumstance, the westener WILL lose...period! This attitude is as a result of a learnt condition from cradle to the grave handed down from generation to generation.

Secondly, the police farces' (pun intended) primary occupation is to make private kingdoms and a money making machine.

The law is there to protect them (they got the guns) and to be used against all and sundry to extort money from as many sources as they can squeeze, threaten or create. They are above the law. They are "The Law". The population of Thailand, including the "wealthy" westenrs that reside or holiday here are merely a source of revenue.

Unless/untill Thais obey the law and become law abiding citizens and instictively know that the cops will enfore the letter of the law and unless/untill the Thai police force honour their oaths to Their King, their people and their country to do the job they are being paid for without fear or favour through consistant, righteous and honest policing and law enforcement as well as preventative strategies, Thailand will always flounder at the bottom of the also-rans. A country and a people that in the main can't be trusted by non-Thais both individuals and business.

The time when far too many Thais think they can get away scott free with any horendous treatment or rip-off on westeners will only come about when westeners: individuals, business and governments actually start doing something about it. That is: individuals don't holiday here, business doesn't invest here and foreign government punish/embarrass the Thais into fixing the problem. IE "hands off westeners!" , and ntill/unless this happens nothing absolutely nothing will change because the Thais will not insitgate any meaningful changes .

For those with Christian ideals and values, I quote " Lev 19:33. "When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the Lord your God".

I believe the above quote is particularly apt.

Edited April 11, 2010 by barky

[stevenl]

I've never predicted the death of Phuket - I have, however, stated in previous posts, that I believe they are outpricing themselves from a very big slice of the tourism market, due to rapidly rising prices on the island, for no explainable economic reason.

As far as tuk-tuks, I have sat on Beach Road and had lunch, several times, usually for about an hour a pop. I haven't seen many people engage tuk-tuks for their service, and, considering they span just about the whole length of Beach Road, I am wondering how they now earn a living, without ripping off the odd customer they do get. Seriously, the tuk-tuk at the back of the que, he must get 1 fare a week as it must take a week for him to get to the front of the que.

Joe, you seem to shoot posts down in flames at a rate in which you believe your posts are being shot down, how about you supply the readers of TV with your observations, facts, statistics etc. I don't read anything concrete coming out of your posts except for if a guy who has had a few beers decides to argue why he should pay 10 times more money than he did in Bangkok for a journey 10 times shorter, he deserves to be bashed, robbed and possibly stabbed.

The reason for the higher phuket prices compared to other parts of thailand is easy. It is an island, limited land, therefor increased land pricds, lesding to higher prices for everything.

[NamKangMan]

The reason for the higher phuket prices compared to other parts of thailand is easy. It is an island, limited land, therefor increased land pricds, lesding to higher prices for everything.

And Thai's who think anything with the word "Phuket" in it gives them the right to triple the price.

[JOESHEAD]

The reason for the higher phuket prices compared to other parts of thailand is easy. It is an island, limited land, therefor increased land pricds, lesding to higher prices for everything.

And Thai's who think anything with the word "Phuket" in it gives them the right to triple the price.

Triple the price for triple the fun. Works for me.

[NamKangMan]

And Thai's who think anything with the word "Phuket" in it gives them the right to triple the price.

Triple the price for triple the fun. Works for me.

Plus triple the scams, triple the thefts, triple the rip offs, triple the violence and triple the negative publicity. How is that sustainable as a tourist destination????

[JOESHEAD]

The amount of people coming to Phuket will never be affected by Tuk Tuk drivers, I assure you of that.

That Mr.Joeshead is where you are so very very wrong.

I totally refuse to be held hostage by these thugs charging more than a London taxi, so in November my wife and three other family members have booked into Kotakinabalu instead.

So Mr. JH, you are wrong 5 times already!

Sorry mate, that's not quite how it works. As you clicked on the 'Book Now' button to go where you're going (where is that) 1000 people clicked the 'Book Now' button to come to Phuket. Out of those 1000 people 999 of them will have a great holiday and 500 of them will probably come back again. If they don't it doesn't matter because another 1000 have just clicked the 'Book Now' button anyway.

Global recession, changing trends and numerous other things may affect the tourism in Phuket. Tuk Tuks will not.

[billythehat]

Sorry mate, that's not quite how it works. As you clicked on the 'Book Now' button to go where you're going (where is that) 1000 people clicked the 'Book Now' button to come to Phuket. Out of those 1000 people 999 of them will have a great holiday and 500 of them will probably come back again. If they don't it doesn't matter because another 1000 have just clicked the 'Book Now' button anyway.

Global recession, changing trends and numerous other things may affect the tourism in Phuket. Tuk Tuks will not.

"Lies, d*mned lies, and statistics" Mark Twain.

A modern phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions. I'm just saying.....

[thepanicandthevomit]

what a disgrace ..... 70 people watching and on one stepped in to help a defenseless girl being beaten by a thug with a log....... you and the other crowd should be ashamed , gutless cowards , this is where the problem stems from no one has any balls anymore ..... what happened to the simple RIGHT and Wrong ..... hope you slept well ...........

This gets right to heart of the matter. Why step in to help a 'defenceless girl being beaten by a thug' when you risk 20 thais jumping you in return? It is US against THEM. Like it or not, thais either want our money or our blood.

This is why Joeshead has got this completely wrong. Accepting these types of societal norms harms us all - farang and thai.

[stevenl]

This gets right to heart of the matter. Why step in to help a 'defenceless girl being beaten by a thug' when you risk 20 thais jumping you in return? It is US against THEM. Like it or not, thais either want our money or our blood.

This is why Joeshead has got this completely wrong. Accepting these types of societal norms harms us all - farang and thai.

if you really feel it is thais against farang, you'd better move, because the farang would not stand a chance.

[ThaiEye]

Never ever get into an argument with a tuk-tuk driver or anyone of a simialr occupation in Thailand, especially if you have been drinking. Agree the price when you leave and you should have no problems. If you do, tell the driver that you want the police to sort the mess out.