Immigration Are…(a) Joking. (b) Stupid. Or, (c) Just Nasty.

[Time Traveller]

This is a long complaint and a warning to others about documents that immigration require. Today I went to extend visa based on marriage and thai family.

After last year’s painful experience, I had what I thought was all of the correct documents, and left home (from Sathorn) at 8am hoping to finish in time to be back at work by 2:30pm. Since I thought the easiest way is through extension by money in the bank method, I went to my bank first to get a letter of the account balance and update the bank book. After finally meeting the immigration officer at 11:55am, I was told that my bank book needed to be updated on the same day. I said I just updated it and you can see that the last transaction in the account was yesterday the 25th. I explained that there were no transactions today since the bank letter shows the same balance today as it was yesterday which is printed in the bank book. Their reply was, “sorry can’t accept that go and withdraw some money from the account so that it shows a transaction on the same day that you apply”. I explained to them look, my account is with Kiatnakin Bank and there are no branches nearby immigration, you can see that the money has been in the account for more than 6 months already what difference is it if the last transaction in the book is dated 25th or the 26th ? Their reply “It’s the rule!”. So I asked to see the “rule” which of course they could not show me. Could they see the stupidity of this??? Who knows, anyway I drove 10km’s to the nearest bank branch to withdraw a token 1 baht in order to create a transaction for the current day in the bank book. 2 hours later I arrived back to submit this one document. Then they ask for a copy of my condominium lease! I said, we were not aware that this was needed and certainly we didn’t submit it last year, in anycase we've living at the same address for 5 yrs, why do you need it? Again their reply, “It’s the rule!!!”. Again I asked to see where this rule is written and again, conveniently, they could not show me any document that outlines these unknown rules that mysteriously appear whenever someone has all of the other documents in order.

By this time it’s 3:30pm, I’ve just wasted a whole work day and my wife and 1yr old baby are just plain fed up with waiting around to hear stupid new rules that are seemingly not written anywhere. I would like to know has anyone seen “the rules” which gives a complete list of all documents, including any loopholes (like same day bank transactions), for visa extensions and where can I get a copy?

I wouldn’t have minded so much if we didn’t have to travel for two hours each way to the hel_l hole that is Chaengwattana where the road construction seems to never end.

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes I know, but just getting angry will do you no good...especially for you.

That's because they will just change the "rules" to whatever inconveniances you the most.

You'll have to understand one thing: you're not important and they don't really want you in Thailand anyhow.

That is not criticisim of the immigration or you, its just the fact.

I'm sure you think your job is important, but to them your job doesn't mean diddly-squat.

Again, not being critical, but you need to understand that they are doing you a favor by letting you get your extension. I know thats not what you think, but it is how they think. And they are in charge, so they can just change the goalposts when they want to.

I've been furious with Thai officials before, but showing anger will just get you more stalling from them.

The only way you can win is by oulasting them, and not showing your frustration.

That's probably not want you want to hear, but it is the truth.

When they deem you are worthy, acting "Thai" enough to stay in Thailand, you will get your extension. Before that, forget it.

Getting angry, and especially showing your frustration, is just counter-productive. It isn't in your best interests in the long run.

You should have been in Thailand long enough to learn that already.

As I said, that's probably not what you want to hear...but you should know it's the truth in Thailand by now.

Remember: The first "rule' is there are no "rules".

Edited April 26, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Jingthing]

Those two details may indeed be the current enforcement policies for that particular office. Some proof of address is commonly asked for extensions in most offices, I think. The same day bank letter/transaction is probably less common. The latter is definitely not a national, written rule. I agree I wouldn't have asked them to see a written rule, waste of time and only makes them harden.

[cobra]

I've been furious with Thai officials before, but showing anger will just get you more stalling from them.

Yes indeed,

And asking to see something in writing is no guarantee that it will be adhered to, staff has wide latitude in how they wish to interpret existing and new directives, asking for clarification from a different office usually results in them deferring judgment to the previous.

[jazzbo]

From Moby Dick by Herman Melville (Chapter 49)

There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a

vast practical joke

, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody’s expense but his own

. Unfortunately, once you (and we all) enter on Thai soil and subject ourselves to 'discretion', WE become the puch-line.

[BOWCNX]

IMA_FARANG said it perfectly. That is the way it is. Having been through the process in various forms for 20 years, the best thing I have found is to assume that it will never go the way you expect. When asked for the "new, previously unheard of document", I just cheer up, because the process is going just like I planned!. Then I make sure to get the details of exactly what is required, or I will have to the pleasant surprise of finding I have to get the document again.

[aka_jack]

Hey might not get u it any quicker but will certainly give u some satisfaction, i had a problem with the electric company with a disputed bill ! they werent budging and were going to cut us of if we didnt pay the bill 3 months after the dispute, anyway cut to the chase get all documents ready and right and when all is checked and ready to proceed and they ask for the payment make sure youve been to the bank and withdrawn the fee in 1 baht coins and then empty all said 1 bahts into tesco bag to make sure they have to count it !!

[TaoNow]

My experience last week was the opposite of OP's.

I first went to the SCB bank on Wireless Road to up-date my passbook and get the letter attesting to today's balance.

Because my 800K is in a fixed deposit account, there was no entry in the passbook since the last quarterly interest deposit (over a month ago).

I then went to Immo, arrived at 10:30 a.m., and got the queue number. My number came up at 2:30 p.m.

The Immo officer looked rather weary and stressed. I was quiet and respectful and laid out my documents on her desk: passport, extension form, photocopies of passport, bank passbook, photocopies of passbook, bank letter.

She quickly looked through each of the documents then asked me to sign the separate forms saying I understood the terms of the 800K provision. I then paid the 1,900 and waited about 15 minutes for the receipt.

Next, I was told to take my documents to the officer a few desks away. This senior Immo officer looked very carefully at the bank book, bank letter and passport pages.

There were no questions, no problems. She signed and I was outtathere.

This has been my (painless) experience in each of the past three years extension, with a different Immo officer each time. So, there must be more to OP's story than he is giving us.

[zombie]

I did the marriage extension this year for the first time. They asked for a copy of the lease, and a photocopy of the landlady's ID card. We were also asked to update

the bankbook on the same day, even though it was updated two days before. We also had to provide a copy of the affirmation to marry document we submitted

to the district office to get married, even though we have been married three years. It was all quite an experience,

[Dave the Dude]

I did the marriage extension this year for the first time. They asked for a copy of the lease, and a photocopy of the landlady's ID card. We were also asked to update

the bankbook on the same day, even though it was updated two days before. We also had to provide a copy of the affirmation to marry document we submitted

to the district office to get married, even though we have been married three years. It was all quite an experience,

Translated Immigration instructions re Visa Ext based on marriage

Non Immigrant O Extension Based on Marriage / Documents needed:

1.Application form T.M. 7 with one photograph size 4x6 cm.

Visa Fee 1900.-Baht

2. Copy of passport ( with certified true copy ) 2 copy

3. Marriage Certificate 2 copy (Copy of marriage registration Papers (Kor Ror.3)

4. (Tabian Ban)Wife's house registration 2 copy(they are not interested in Yellow Book??!)

5. Wife's identity card 2 copy

6. Bank guarantee letter, signed by the bank manager, pick it up in the bank 1 day before

7. An updated Bank Book (updated on the same day as the bank guarantee paper),

Showing more than 400.000 (more than 3 month).

OR

Evidence of the male farangs monthly income of 40,000 Baht.

Embassy letter if originating outside Thailand.

Tax receipts if from within Thailand.

8. Photos x 3: Include you and your wife in front of the house, then 2 others in/around your house. Bring photos from your wedding as well, it may also be good.

PLUS MAP OF THE HOUSE ADDRESS.

9. Copy of photo page, visa page and entry/permit to stay stamp page.

Add copy of TM6 departure card. (1 copy is enough) Just sign each copy that is what certification means.

3 to 5 Wife signs all of these and you also sign marriage certificate (it has your name on it).

(only one copy needed)

10. Need copies of bank book pages also signed. Best to get an update on the day you go to immigration.

Advice:

*Bring all originals you have with you just in case the officer would like to see them as well.

*The wife had to fill in 'back-up' papers in THAI

This seemed to work for me OK

Edited April 27, 2010 by Dave the Dude

[Gary A]

My experience last week was the opposite of OP's.

I first went to the SCB bank on Wireless Road to up-date my passbook and get the letter attesting to today's balance.

Because my 800K is in a fixed deposit account, there was no entry in the passbook since the last quarterly interest deposit (over a month ago).

I then went to Immo, arrived at 10:30 a.m., and got the queue number. My number came up at 2:30 p.m.

The Immo officer looked rather weary and stressed. I was quiet and respectful and laid out my documents on her desk: passport, extension form, photocopies of passport, bank passbook, photocopies of passbook, bank letter.

She quickly looked through each of the documents then asked me to sign the separate forms saying I understood the terms of the 800K provision. I then paid the 1,900 and waited about 15 minutes for the receipt.

Next, I was told to take my documents to the officer a few desks away. This senior Immo officer looked very carefully at the bank book, bank letter and passport pages.

There were no questions, no problems. She signed and I was outtathere.

This has been my (painless) experience in each of the past three years extension, with a different Immo officer each time. So, there must be more to OP's story than he is giving us.

YMMV - I had the same situation with my bank letter and bank book. I have found that some officials think they have to find some nit picking problem so the can demonstrate their power. Nothing they do surprises my when I am extending my visa.

[CosmicSurfer]

I gave up on the Extension process... It's much less stressful to take a nice relaxing bus ride in the country and do a 3 Month Visa stamp run to Poipet. I still lose a day, but I can do it on a Sunday and my blood-pressure stays at a normal rate.

CS

[Mario2008]

Copy of the rules in our pinned section of the visa forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...777-2551_en.pdf

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a77473-...305-2551-d.html

Becasue a marraige extension has to be aproved by immigration HQ, they can be very strict.

[rfukata]

I gave up on the Extension process... It's much less stressful to take a nice relaxing bus ride in the country and do a 3 Month Visa stamp run to Poipet. I still lose a day, but I can do it on a Sunday and my blood-pressure stays at a normal rate.

CS

absolutely concur. I also gave up the nonsense visitation to immigration as the original title of blog states. "joking, stupid, or just nasty"

I just leave the country to extend my visa or renewal - less stress.

[jonwilly]

One week before I plan to do my Yearly Non Imm Retirement visa, I go down Chiang Mai Immigration and check rules so that I may see if there are any Changes or New Policies.

On the day I turn up with new haircut and am clean shaven. Fresh pressed shirt and long trousers.

Yes Sir No Sir Three bags full Sir.

Ultra Polite and when as normal

'I need one more copy of X'

Certainly and off I go.

Two hrs 30 min for new 12 month visa and multiple entry is normal.

John

and I have seen

Who are these people, I earn ten times their wage I have more in Bank then they will ever have.

Still there next day or week.

[FunkyGuru]

IMA_FARANG, says it the best. Not only for visa purposes, but as a foreigner, for any thing you need to get done, follow the instructions. It will help

[hjvdhoef]

I know farangs who never go for a visa.They stay illegal in the country and the chance the police ask for your passport is little.

No stress.

[lopburi3]

Since the move to Chiang Watanna they have required same day evidence of bank deposit. For most people this is easy as most banks have a branch office within 100 meters of the Immigration office (down one floor) and are aware of the requirements.

Proof of residence, if not the same as wife home ledger, has often been required and determines if you can do the extension of stay at that office so more important than ever now.

It really should not be considered a reason to avoid doing the extension of stay for most people (those that travel often may be an exception) - there may be a delay now and then but it really is much less time than making 4 visa trips a year.

[theoldgit]

I went to the CW office last week and whilst mine was an extension based on retirement, which I understand is less complicated, it was the best experience to date, I was in and out in less than an hour and that included a 90 day report.

I arrived at a little after 09.30, my number was called at 10.00, the IO was a very pleasant older lady, though still younger than me, she looked at all my papers chatting as she worked, the only question was the figure for my income on the letter from my Embassy, more expensive method but I cannot really be bothered with the bank route, she asked what rate I used for conversion, we agreed on 49 Baht to the GBP, and she was content.

The conversation then got interesting, she asked me how much I thought she earned, I said about 25-30,000 baht, she told me that she earned 15,000 Baht a month adding that she was a widow and was trying to put her son through school. So I can understand why some IO's get a bit tetchy when they see applicants hour after hour, who providing evidence of 40 or 65,000 Baht a month, and if they are a bit stroppy or dress inappropriately I can understand whilst there is a reaction, though I am not suggesting this was the case with the OP, perhaps the IO was having a bad hair day, we all have them.

[Guest]

Attitude plays a major part in getting things done with the bureaucracy. Things may not always go according to plan and we have to accept that. I've always found 90% of I/Os ready to smile and chat, and offer good advice to those who show good manners and civility, and are appropriately dressed.

[boloa]

I have lived in Thailand for 9 years now,this years when I went to renew my married visa at Chok Chai ( as Kap Choengis now closed )I was asked for photos of me and the wife plus a map,something that I have never been asked for before. I said why do I need to draw you a map as I had a yellow house book in my name.The reason for a yellow house book is for proof of address surely,the village head man,local police officer I took as a witness and the local Amhur are all happy I live at that address and the postman finds me with no problem.Even the nice lady IO agreed with me but she said her boss wanted a map,what could she do.!!!!!!

[Time Traveller]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice. Like I said it was just me expressing a complaint and to see if anyone else had a similiar experiences. One comment I think summed it up. "Assume you will need to go there more than once". I only wish it wasn't so far away. In anycase, I'm thinking to transfer to Samut Prakarn immigration next year since my wife has a house there. Has anyone had any experience with the Immigration office at Samut Prakarn ? I've visited the office once before and it looked very quiet and relaxed.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Time Traveller

[IsaanAndy]

I totally agree with IMA FARANG, showing anger just proves to them how they can wind you up so they will continue to do it.

Smile and say no problem or mai pen rai and just get it on with it, as it's the only way in amazing Thailand!

[Badbanker]

I have lived here for 20 something years and I have learned to follow a couple of good strategies.

1. Make friends with the officers. They remember you and want to help you

2. Plan a trip to immigration ahead of time by doing a dry run and getting all the info and details necessary

3. Take more documents than you need. You can always bring them home if you don't need them

I have just started doing the extension process at CW and each time we go my wife and I see a number of officers that we have had to work with a number of times before over the past 15 years. They like to be remembered and they also like you to respect them and Thai culture. This should show in your dress and demeanor. I just got a call from the officer dealing with my case telling me that the bank affirmation had the wrong date on it and could I come out and get it changed. She had already arranged the bank downstairs to change the document but I needed to personally do it. I came and got it done in about 15 mins and she said everything was OK now. This is the sort of experience I have had with Immigration.

Excellent in my view!

Edited April 27, 2010 by Badbanker

[Time Traveller]

I totally agree with IMA FARANG, showing anger just proves to them how they can wind you up so they will continue to do it.

Smile and say no problem or mai pen rai and just get it on with it, as it's the only way in amazing Thailand!

Perhaps. But there are things that are reasonable and there are things that are not reasonable. What IS reasonable is a complete list they could give to applicants of the required documents such as (1) Copy of house lease, and (2) copy of bank statement showing a transaction on the same day as when the application is submitted. Etc.

What IS NOT reasonable is the officer handing me two files of other applicants and telling me to read through them and see for myself the documents that are required to be submitted. I’m quite sure you wouldn’t want me seeing pictures of your home and details of your address, bank account statement and other personal details would you?

[phetaroi]

OP said: "...complaint...warning...painful...Could they see the stupidity of this???...just plain fed up...stupid new rules...hel_l hole".

Whether you're right or wrong, if this "attitude" shows through in general, you're your own worst enemy in official Thailand.

[jazzbo]

I think when they encounter the obstreperous farang, the IO's attitude becomes:

Go ahead, make my day.

[jamesjdaly]

When you go back after your '30 days under consideration', do you have to submit your pp before lunch and then collect it (with the new 1 year stamp) in the afternoon, the same as Suan Plu? Or is it done on the spot now?

Thanks

[mahtin]

Nonthaburi this morning was difficult to find but a breeze, thanks to the patience and dedication of the senior sergeant major lady, who postponed her lunch despite the exhortation of her colleague ( gin khao!) to deal with people waiting.

Respect.

[GarryP]

I have never had to show a lease/rental agreement in my 20 years of yearly extensions based on marriage. Last year I was caught out with needing to submit a copy of the entry in the Marriages Ledger (kor 42 or something like that), but they said don't worry, just pop it in in the next few days, which I did. Apart from that it has always been plain and simple, although more recently it has become more time consuming because of the number of applicants. I have never extended at CW before (always at Suan Plu) but will be in late July. I have also seen a few faces that I remember when doing my 90 day report and hope they remember me when it comes to time to extend.