Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[kissdani]

Sir, the vast majority of people using this forum are NOT Thai. If that offends you, there are many Thai language forums for you to vent against us "useless" foreigners.

I hope that the vast majority in this forum would not declare a 76 years old Thai lady to a terrorist and show nothing but hate against a big part of the Thai population.

You may post 100 entries of hate per day but that makes you not to the vast majority of this forum.

Should i quote you?

Time for justice for the mob inciters and time for the gullible mercenary farmers to GO HOME!

Red insurgents -- GO HOME!

Red insurgent Thaksinistas -- the government has offered you transport home. Take it!

Farang USA, if Thailand and its people offends you, pack your bag, GO HOME.

There are many white supremacist websites in the internet, go and post there.

[whybother]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but as I understand it, Abhasit acquired his majority 1) after the PPP party was dissolved 2) MPs formerly supporting the PPP were 'cajoled ' into changing their allegiance. That's a very far cry from a normal parliamentary system when the Prime Minister resigns and the existing (voted in) majority party elects another sitting MP to lead the party for the rest of the electoral term. If a party in the UK or any other normal parliamentary system were to lose their voting majority because allies defected, they would immediately call a general election. Does anyone honestly imagine that if half the Labour MPs in the UK defected to the Liberals, Gordon Brown would say OK, we'll hand over the reins of government for the rest of our term to David Cameron of the Conservatives because they can now command a theoretical majority? Absurd!

It all comes down to the majority. The PPP didn't have the majority. It had to "cajole" some MPs from the smaller parties to support it.

When the PPP were disbanded, their replacement (PTP) was still in government. The PTP had the chance to call elections, but decided to try a new vote for PM (as they did when they elected Somchai PM).

Then BJT (Newin's ex-PPP group) decided "for the good of the country" (Newin's words) that they would support the Democrats in the parliamentary election for PM, bringing the Democrats to power.

This isn't the UK where people basically vote for a party and have no idea who they are voting for locally. But that doesn't mean that this *couldn't* happen in the UK. It is just very unlikely.

In Thailand, people tend to vote for the person. The politicians change parties so often, it's impossible to keep up.

Not everyone will get the PM that they want, but which ever way you look at it, "the people" (the majority of Thailand) have the PM of the MPs that they voted for.

[animatic]

A little understanding for the farmers of the North is in order here.

Would you work for 2000 baht a month in the fields?

Of course they are angry.

Ol' man river,

Dat ol' man river

He mus'know sumpin'

But don't say nuthin',

He jes'keeps rollin'

He keeps on rollin' along.

He don' plant taters/tators,

He don't plant cotton,

An' dem dat plants'em

is soon forgotten,

But ol'man river,

He jes keeps rollin'along.

You an'me, we sweat an' strain,

Body all achin' an' racket wid pain,

Tote dat barge!

Lif' dat bale!

Git a little drunk

An' you land in jail.

Ah gits weary

An' sick of tryin'

Ah'm tired of livin'

An' skeered of dyin',

But ol' man river,

He jes'keeps rolling' along.

[Colored folks work on de Mississippi,

Colored folks work while de white folks play,

Pullin' dose boats from de dawn to sunset,

Gittin' no rest till de judgement day.

or musical part]

Don't look up

An' don't look down,

You don' dast make

De white boss frown.

Bend your knees

An'bow your head,

An' pull date rope

Until you' dead.)

Let me go 'way from the Mississippi,

Let me go 'way from de white man boss;

Show me dat stream called de river Jordan,

Dat's de ol' stream dat I long to cross.

O' man river,

Dat ol' man river,

He mus'know sumpin'

But don't say nuthin'

He jes' keeps rollin'

He keeps on rollin' along.

Long ol' river forever keeps rollin' on...

He don' plant tater,

He don' plant cotton,

An' dem dat plants 'em

Is soon forgotten,

but ol' man river,

He jes' keeps rollin' along.

Long ol' river keeps hearing dat song.

You an' me, we sweat an' strain,

Body all achin an' racked wid pain.

Tote dat barge!

Lif' dat bale!

Git a little drunk

An' you land in jail.

Ah, gits weary

An' sick of tryin'

Ah'm tired of livin'

An' skeered of dyin',

But ol' man river,

He jes'keeps rollin' along!

<script language=JavaScript src="../../ringdown_song.js">

I did not really think that such songs as this were still sung

as slavery is pretty much over worldwide, right? I mean songs like this were

sung over 100 years ago picking cotton for white Slave Owners. Are you calling the Red's Slaves?

Colored folks work while de white folks play

Actually I just saw it on TV two weeks ago.

The inimitable Paul Robeson singing the definitive version in the 1951 film "Showboat."

Jerome Kern music and book Oscar Hammerstein II.

It's a period piece but this was a period story.

Here's an earlier version.

Edited April 28, 2010 by animatic

[gregb]

The yellows where aloud to protest so why should the red not be able to. I am married to a Thai lady living in the uk and my mother in law is 76 years old, she protested in Bangkok wearing a red shirt but she's not a terrorist or terrorizing law abiding citizens, she simply wants a fair democratic elected Prime minister.

Please don't judge all Red's as terrorist, a lot of them just want fairness.

If you MIL is participating in an illegal protest that has an armed militia, leaders calling for violence, and doesn't understand the basics of "democratically elected", then she deserves to be labeled with the rest.

Many of us that are very "anti-red" and particularly "anti-Thaksin" certainly feel that the poor in ALL of Thailand are under-represented. That does not mean that their participation in an anti-democratic series of rallies that damage the entire country needs to be excused.

Currently there is an elected PM in Thailand, if you doubt this please contact the government of the UK and ask them. The current PM was elected the same way that Samak and Somchai were........

Who are the "many of us"?

I guess you are a Farang. News for you: you don't have much to say here, actually nothing. You also cannot vote. You can have your talk about Thaksins prostate if that gives you a kick.

But this 76 years old Thai has the right to protest, she is Thai, it is her country.

You are not in the position to decide what that 76 years old Thai lady is allowed to do and what not.

I may be a farang but my wife and my children are Thai, and on this forum I speak for them. This 76 year old Thai has as much right as anyone to express her opinion. However, she does not possess the right to infringe the civil liberties of other Thais, as she is doing right now.

Sorry, but the fact that this lady is elderly does not excuse the fact that what she is doing is against the law. I support the government giving her the opportunity to abandon her protest peacefully and return to the correct side of the law with no consequences. However, if she continues to defy common sense, she will have to face the same consequences as all the terrorists, whether she picked up a weapon or not.

Like it or not, she is aiding and abetting terrorism. That can not and will not be tolerated in a law abiding society.

[animatic]

Sir, the vast majority of people using this forum are NOT Thai. If that offends you, there are many Thai language forums for you to vent against us "useless" foreigners.

I hope that the vast majority in this forum would not declare a 76 years old Thai lady to a terrorist and show nothing but hate against a big part of the Thai population.

You may post 100 entries of hate per day but that makes you not to the vast majority of this forum.

Should i quote you?

Time for justice for the mob inciters and time for the gullible mercenary farmers to GO HOME!

Red insurgents -- GO HOME!

Red insurgent Thaksinistas -- the government has offered you transport home. Take it!

Farang USA, if Thailand and its people offends you, pack your bag, GO HOME.

There are many white supremacist websites in the internet, go and post there.

Well your attempt to turn this into a JD skewering session didn't work.

His statements are only towards the protesters causing problems,

and not a thing at the regular folks at home in Issan with enough sense

to NOT cause problems for the whole nation because Thaksins minions whipped up their passions.

And don't bother trying to use USA as a denigrating mark, not all will buy that jingoism whole cloth.

[Oberkommando]

That can not and will not be tolerated in a law abiding society.

It has been shown that it is tolerated in Thailand with the airport takeovers and the siege of Government House.

It is too late now asking for the law to be enforced and punishment to be meted out when it wasn't before and still hasn't to those who were implicated.

Hypocrisy and precedents galore.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Oberkommando

[gregb]

That can not and will not be tolerated in a law abiding society.

It has been shown that it is tolerated in Thailand with the airport takeovers and the siege of Government House.

It is too late now asking for the law to be enforced and punishment to be meted out when it wasn't before and still hasn't to those who were implicated.

Hypocrisy and precedents galore.

It is never too late to demand that justice be served.

If you wish to be a force for good, demand that all who committed crimes be brought to justice and limit your activities to that. Most would strongly support you in this activity.

Only a force for evil thinks that 2 wrongs make a right.

Few will support your contention that it is OK to commit illegal acts because another criminal got away with the same thing. Terrorists may think this way, but honest citizens do not.

[animatic]

That can not and will not be tolerated in a law abiding society.

It has been shown that it is tolerated in Thailand with the airport takeovers and the siege of Government House.

It is too late now asking for the law to be enforced and punishment to be meted out when it wasn't before and still hasn't to those who were implicated.

Hypocrisy and precedents galore.

It is never too late to demand that justice be served.

If you wish to be a force for good, demand that all who committed crimes be brought to justice and limit your activities to that. Most would strongly support you in this activity.

Only a force for evil thinks that 2 wrongs make a right.

Few will support your contention that it is OK to commit illegal acts because another criminal got away with the same thing. Terrorists may think this way, but honest citizens do not.

No time like the present to get back on the proper path.

In fact the present is the ONLY time you can actually

CHANGE THINGS from thje old ways....

[brahmburgers]

I've been interested in Kwanchai for the past couple weeks. He comes across as among the hottest of the hot-head Red shirt leaders - up there with Seh Daeng.

We hear that today he led a group of protesters toward DM airport. Then, when the heat came on, he fled in a car back to town. The we heard he was arrested. Yet later we hear he was not arrested - and there's even a photo of him enjoying a McDonalds meal while his troops were eating ......not sure if they were eating anything, ....maybe eating bits of rubber bullets.

So, did he get arrested and then released? Wouldn't surprise me, as it's par for the bumbling course the security forces have charted thus far. We hear of martial law (or equivalent) and detained adversaries cannot be let off on bail - yet 11 Reds caught breaking the law in Phitsanolok yesterday were detained, and then let out via bail - all paid by a Puey Thai politician. And we can guess where the money originated from.

Come on Thai security. You're doing better today, but you still looking like bumblers. Get tough and do your duty - which is basically protecting Thailand, the Thai people, and the monarchy. Don't give it 83% effort ......do it 100%!

[brahmburgers]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving. Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

....and Thailand will reinforce it's reputation of being controlled by mobs.

[gregb]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving. Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

I will applaud them for all efforts they make at leaving Bangkok and returning home. I will not applaud criminal activities by anyone, nor will I support anyone who thinks that this is acceptable.

[britmaveric]

All just causes occur in the same way, however I am sure you will argue it's unjust. However I agree the sooner the govt relents, the better it will be for all thailand. (reds can go home)

[bkkjames]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving. Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

I appreciate that with 20K posts it must be really tough to come up with new things to say Brit, hey I struggle and I only have 9k, but please why not just change your signature and when you reply to a post etc, you won't have to write anything.

How's montenegro this time of the year?

[britmaveric]

^Croatia is much better than Montenegro. Cheers for your concern bkkjames and perhaps you should take your own advice?

[kissdani]

I hope that the vast majority in this forum would not declare a 76 years old Thai lady to a terrorist and show nothing but hate against a big part of the Thai population.

You may post 100 entries of hate per day but that makes you not to the vast majority of this forum.

Should i quote you?

Time for justice for the mob inciters and time for the gullible mercenary farmers to GO HOME!

Red insurgents -- GO HOME!

Red insurgent Thaksinistas -- the government has offered you transport home. Take it!

Farang USA, if Thailand and its people offends you, pack your bag, GO HOME.

There are many white supremacist websites in the internet, go and post there.

Well your attempt to turn this into a JD skewering session didn't work.

His statements are only towards the protesters causing problems,

and not a thing at the regular folks at home in Issan with enough sense

to NOT cause problems for the whole nation because Thaksins minions whipped up their passions.

And don't bother trying to use USA as a denigrating mark, not all will buy that jingoism whole cloth.

It is hate speech. Repeated over and over again. Nothing else.

The protesters are Thai people, if we wanna come to a solution we must listen to them too and don't ignore them as uneducated, isaan people or just paid by Thaksin. Wrong move, to underestimate the reds and ignore them for a too long time created the current situation. Abhisit seriously failed here.

Some foreigners might think because the reds face a crackdown by the government, that the reds are game now and the hunting season is open and everything allowed.

But that is not foreigner business.

IF you pick on the reds as the poor farmers from Isaan, i can check what country you are coming from.

You are a Farang USA too, right? There is a pattern and connection, you and him are not the only Farang USA with a far out extreme view. Listen to your friend: GO HOME!

[bkkjames]

^Croatia is much better than Montenegro. Cheers for your concern bkkjames and perhaps you should take your own advice?

I would suggest that my signature is a lot more believable than yours mate.

Did you upgrade your photoshop yet?

[pedro01]

That can not and will not be tolerated in a law abiding society.

It has been shown that it is tolerated in Thailand with the airport takeovers and the siege of Government House.

It is too late now asking for the law to be enforced and punishment to be meted out when it wasn't before and still hasn't to those who were implicated.

Hypocrisy and precedents galore.

The blame for what happened before in terms of lack of enforcement falls on the shoulders of the administration in at the time, not this administration.

[bkkjames]

Police confiscate dozens of M-79 grenades in a road search

By The Nation

Police confiscated 63 M-79 grenades from a motorcycle during a search on Vibhavadi Rangsit road on Wednesday.

Police stopped a motorcycle at a checkpoint set up after red shirts protesters clashed with troops on the road.

Driver of the vehicle stopped as ordered but managed to run away.

Police then searched the vehicle and confiscated a total of 63 M-79 grenades from the vehicle.

It is still unclear how the explosives were packed.

Also found were documents of Pol Sgt Pratya Maneekote of Patum Thani's Kukot district.

Police could not say whether the drive was the sergeant.

-- The Nation 2010-04-28

Obviously a govt setup, the nation forgot to report that the good sgt reported his motorbike stolen earlier that day_to himself.

[animatic]

I hope that the vast majority in this forum would not declare a 76 years old Thai lady to a terrorist and show nothing but hate against a big part of the Thai population.

You may post 100 entries of hate per day but that makes you not to the vast majority of this forum.

Should i quote you?

Time for justice for the mob inciters and time for the gullible mercenary farmers to GO HOME!

Red insurgents -- GO HOME!

Red insurgent Thaksinistas -- the government has offered you transport home. Take it!

Farang USA, if Thailand and its people offends you, pack your bag, GO HOME.

There are many white supremacist websites in the internet, go and post there.

Well your attempt to turn this into a JD skewering session didn't work.

His statements are only towards the protesters causing problems,

and not a thing at the regular folks at home in Issan with enough sense

to NOT cause problems for the whole nation because Thaksins minions whipped up their passions.

And don't bother trying to use USA as a denigrating mark, not all will buy that jingoism whole cloth.

It is hate speech. Repeated over and over again. Nothing else.

The protesters are Thai people, if we wanna come to a solution we must listen to them too and don't ignore them as uneducated, isaan people or just paid by Thaksin. Wrong move, to underestimate the reds and ignore them for a too long time created the current situation. Abhisit seriously failed here.

Some foreigners might think because the reds face a crackdown by the government, that the reds are game now and the hunting season is open and everything allowed.

But that is not foreigner business.

IF you pick on the reds as the poor farmers from Isaan, i can check what country you are coming from.

You are a Farang USA too, right? There is a pattern and connection, you and him are not the only Farang USA with a far out extreme view. Listen to your friend: GO HOME!

If they only bore the label of 'Thai Person', these words would not be uttered.

But they also wear the other labels, in many cases proudly it seems:

mob inciters, gullible mercenary farmers, Red insurgents

Since the message given out by these people IS hate, except for their clique,

then his speach is MILD in comparison to the bile spewed from the Red Stages at all who disagree.

Are ALL the people at the red rally

mob inciters, gullible mercenary farmers, Red insurgents,

no of course not, but those others would not be there but for the machinations of

mob inciters, gullible mercenary farmers, Red insurgents.

End of story.

Again no kissie face niceness here, and No Point won in this argument.

[Jingthing]

FYI- I now have the poster Kissdani on ignore. I don't feel his level of discussion is worth my time replying to anymore, but appreciate the defense given.

[neverdie]

^Croatia is much better than Montenegro. Cheers for your concern bkkjames and perhaps you should take your own advice?

I would suggest that my signature is a lot more believable than yours mate.

Did you upgrade your photoshop yet?

You've got to give it to the man, he's honest (& even likeable)

[britmaveric]

^I know!

[ChemiseRouge]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving.

Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

The restraint shown by this government would not have been seen whether it was in Moscow, Beijing or DC.

Let alone anywhere in Latin America or other parts of Asia for that matter - be it Delhi, Jakarta or Yangon.

Whatever the rights of the argument over the vast disparity of Thailand's wealth underlying the righteousness of the Red's cause;

it has been well & truly negated by the Red leadership who are doing their damnedest in bringing down this country through violence & anarchy.

The dilemma of any Thai government has been their inability to utilise the forces of law & order proficiently

in quelling outbreaks of civil strife with a firm but measured response.

Whether it be at Thammasat University, which made Kent State appear like a a mild disturbance,

or the political impasse the country now faces, where the Reds are displaying the only coherent leadership

and those in Brown or Green are poor imitation of the Keystone Cops who are incapable of restoring the rule of law.

Your argument regarding the Red's restraint, IMO does not stand up against the deaths on the street

and the disturbance to ordinary Thai lives and businesses.

The Red Leadership [RL] is not a benign organisation wanting to bring equality for the masses,

this is an all out power grab by some very nasty characters who are out for their own personal gain.

The needs and rights of the poor don't figure much in the outcome, but they are there to be manipulated for the RL's nefarious objectives.

Rouge Out

[bkkjames]

^Croatia is much better than Montenegro. Cheers for your concern bkkjames and perhaps you should take your own advice?

I would suggest that my signature is a lot more believable than yours mate.

Did you upgrade your photoshop yet?

You've got to give it to the man, he's honest (& even likeable)

Britmav likeable? Miss-guided perhaps, but likeable, the prosecutor is still taking it under consideration ;

[hammered]

Well it looks like the ole CM boys didnt raise enough people if the police sent them packing up there

[animatic]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving.

Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

The restraint shown by this government would not have been seen whether it was in Moscow, Beijing or DC.

Let alone anywhere in Latin America or other parts of Asia for that matter - be it Delhi, Jakarta or Yangon.

Whatever the rights of the argument over the vast disparity of Thailand's wealth underlying the righteousness of the Red's cause;

it has been well & truly negated by the Red leadership who are doing their damnedest in bringing down this country through violence & anarchy.

The dilemma of any Thai government has been their inability to utilise the forces of law & order proficiently

in quelling outbreaks of civil strife with a firm but measured response.

Whether it be at Thammasat University, which made Kent State appear like a a mild disturbance,

or the political impasse the country now faces, where the Reds are displaying the only coherent leadership

and those in Brown or Green are poor imitation of the Keystone Cops who are incapable of restoring the rule of law.

Your argument regarding the Red's restraint, IMO does not stand up against the deaths on the street

and the disturbance to ordinary Thai lives and businesses.

The Red Leadership [RL] is not a benign organisation wanting to bring equality for the masses,

this is an all out power grab by some very nasty characters who are out for their own personal gain.

The needs and rights of the poor don't figure much in the outcome, but they are there to be manipulated for the RL's nefarious objectives.

Rouge Out

Hear hear.

In spite of the obvious name reference and classic deceased Red in avatar,

you thoughts are quite lucid, well balanced and all to accurate.

[animatic]

Well it looks like the ole CM boys didnt raise enough people if the police sent them packing up there

There is some joy in Muddville!

[Jingthing]

Well it looks like the ole CM boys didnt raise enough people if the police sent them packing up there

There is some joy in Muddville!

It's also heartening that they didn't cave in to the red thugs.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[ThisIsMadness]

It will be interesting to see if the dust settles, and we possibly get to a certain calmness

Who of the parties would allow international election monitors to come in !

That no doubt will shift out the democratic pretenders, its not ideal but in my view its becoming clearer that it has to be something looked at now.

Give the reds that offer, along with the timeframe it would take and watch them show themselves for what i believe they truly are.

I don’t believe from what I have seen that the reds would allow this anyway, citing some policy that Thailand would lose its sovereignty and integrity etc but none the less its a valid question to be put to them.

Allow the monitors in, and we will see then how many people from the north want the reds in power.

But if they are voted in, then the mandate will be secured.

The real test here isn’t the elections itself; the real test will be as many others have said here before, that the democratic process is allowed to function.

With monitors,there is a chance ,and i am saying only a chance that all the people will accept the result.

Whatever that may be

And then possibly,we can ALL live in a beautiful country once called Thailand

[Jingthing]

International monitoring of Thai processes goes against the culture here in an extreme way. I don't see that happening here.