When Thai Red-Shirts Turn Colourless

[webfact]

OPINION - THAI TALK

When reds turn colourless, it's win-win confusion

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The reds say they are no longer reds. Or maybe they are still reds but they no longer use the red colour. Or perhaps they still use red but they won't confine themselves to just red.

If that sounds confusing, I suspect it was a deliberate tactic on the part of the reds to lead everyone astray - so much so that they might end up being confused themselves.

If I were one of the red leaders, I wouldn't know who's red and who isn't from the crowd - unless I decided it doesn't matter who's red and who's non-red as long as they scream, "Long live Thaksin!" every time I ask them what colour they like best.

One of the red leaders tells us: "Please call us No Colour, No Connection."

That doesn't solve the problem, though. To me, No Colour is still a colour. And "any colour" is obviously not colourless.

The reds obviously don't want to get themselves mixed up with the multi-coloured group, whose ranks have been growing to counter the reds themselves.

In a way, the reds may have painted themselves into a black corner. They can't go near yellow. The pink people can't stand the reds, and just as the reds were thinking about fading into a non-colour mode, the multi-colours emerged to become a force to reckon with.

More ominously, the reds wouldn't want to be identified with black either, because that would be getting themselves dangerously close to the "black shirts" who were seen firing away during the April 10 face-off, killing 25 and injuring over 800.

Officially, the reds say they have turned colourless (or multi-coloured?) because they believe that the government is on the verge of cracking down on their protesters. Their rationale is that if the police or army try to disperse the red protesters, they won't be able to find them anymore. They may still be protesters, but they are no longer red.

And to further confuse the law-enforcement officials (if there are any left), they may not be able to separate normal shoppers from the real protestors, even if they come determined to put an end to the protest.

Some people say the red leaders might have another strategic plot up their sleeves in telling their people to stop wearing red: Nobody will be able to say that the anti-government red crowd has been shrinking. Since there will no longer be a red gathering, who can say how big or small the red rally really is?

In a very subtle way, that's a great strategic victory for the (former) reds, who can now make the following claims without leaving anyone in a position to verify or deny them:

1. The red protest has spread to the whole country and all 65 million Thais have joined the movement - because to be a member of the red movement, you don't have to wear red anymore.

2. The reds can claim that, from now on, anyone wearing any colour can be considered a member of their anti-government rally.

3. With this new twist, the government and the anti-red groups will be placed in a great dilemma. They won't know who to attack and who to befriend. In fact, they won't even know who's red and who isn't anymore.

4. Most important of all, with reds turning anything but red, nobody will be able to tell whether the protest is still on or if it has ended. Everybody, including the core red leaders, will be left in utter confusion.

5. The reds can finally declare a "no-colour" victory and they don't have to tell anyone how many "reds" were really involved in the protest.

What a brilliant, win-win, colourful shift in strategy. And nobody even had to blink.

-- The Nation 2010-04-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[lazurus]

I dont' think anyone is really fooled into thinking the protest is over. The large barricades are a bit of a give away. Hopefully the road closures around the protest site will keep innocent people out of the way and make it easy to identify the people participating in the protest. At this point if you aren't a red stay out of the area.

[brahmburgers]

The opinion writer dances around the answer to his question.

Yet, in the middle he gives the plain answer instead of all the cute window dressing answers:

Officially, the reds say they have turned colourless (or multi-coloured?) because they believe that the government is on the verge of cracking down on their protesters. Their rationale is that if the police or army try to disperse the red protesters, they won't be able to find them anymore. They may still be protesters, but they are no longer red.

And to further confuse the law-enforcement officials (if there are any left), they may not be able to separate normal shoppers from the real protestors, even if they come determined to put an end to the protest.

from: The Nation newspaper

Basically, the Reds are cowards. They know they're doing bad things, and just like naughty children, they're running from responsibility. Not much different than the man stopped on the motorbike which carried several dozen grenades (last night) who ran after being detained by cops. Why the cops couldn't detain him is attributable to lousy law enforcement, but that's another facet of this crazy imbroglio going on in Bangkok and throughout Thailand.

Incidentally, avoiding being identified (and shirking responsibility) is in line with how hard core terrorists in the middle east do their dastardly business. The middle eastern terrorists also have a death wish (why else have so many suicide bombers?), which also dovetails with the Reds piling thousands fuel covered tires around themselves. Any relation to how Jim Jones' and David Koresh's brainwashed minions perished are not coincidental.

Edited April 29, 2010 by brahmburgers

[bubba]

Any group or person who takes their babies and young children into a potentially violent zone such as the occupied area at Ratchaprasong is either a coward, mentally defective, or a parent who guilty of child abuse. And all this while the fat man runs away from a fight to dine on fried chicken in air conditioned comfort.

[kurtgruen]

By not wearing red, the have a better chance of escaping and mingling with non-protesters. This will limit the Governments options for a crackdown...

1. A crackdown can only be done, after telling all non-protesters to leave the area and giving them time to do so.

2. A crackdown, will most likely have to be conducted at night, when the malls are closed, so protesters can't run into the malls and mix with regular citizens.

3. The Government may we wise now, to order a curfew, then cracking down on the protesters, a few hours after the curfew starts. That way, nobody, besides the protesters, have any business being there and they will get the right people, regardless of what color shirt, pants or bra they happen to wear, at the time

Then again, this will cause a problem outside of Bangkok, because it gives protesters a chance to gather undetected, until it is too late. From a Red perspective, definitely a clever move.

[animatic]

Well caught without your ID in the near vicinity of the rally might easily be reason for arrest.

Sorry we think you left your ID with the paymaster, we'll hold you till a family member can bring your ID to us.

Losing the colors means also all those doing violent actions attacking security personnel,

are not part of an organized, though over the top, protest group any more,

but people doing violence period. Just a mob attacking police or soldiers.

So either Guerrilla Terrorists, or common violent criminals.

They can no longer hide behind their political organization for absolution.

Or maybe the DO realize it IS too late for that already.

A curfew seems a good way to keep innocents from coming out at the wrong time.

I imagine that the big malls will be cut off by police lines early on in the procedure,

and that security personnel will be discretely allowed inside prior, to make sure now one sneaks in.

The risk of a soldier pocketing something is not nearly bad as protesters rampaging, smashing,

and throwing Molotovs in Central World...

Edited April 29, 2010 by animatic

[midas]

The opinion writer dances around the answer to his question.

Yet, in the middle he gives the plain answer instead of all the cute window dressing answers:

Officially, the reds say they have turned colourless (or multi-coloured?) because they believe that the government is on the verge of cracking down on their protesters. Their rationale is that if the police or army try to disperse the red protesters, they won't be able to find them anymore. They may still be protesters, but they are no longer red.

And to further confuse the law-enforcement officials (if there are any left), they may not be able to separate normal shoppers from the real protestors, even if they come determined to put an end to the protest.

from: The Nation newspaper

Basically, the Reds are cowards. They know they're doing bad things, and just like naughty children, they're running from responsibility. Not much different than the man stopped on the motorbike which carried several dozen grenades (last night) who ran after being detained by cops. Why the cops couldn't detain him is attributable to lousy law enforcement, but that's another facet of this crazy imbroglio going on in Bangkok and throughout Thailand.

Incidentally, avoiding being identified (and shirking responsibility) is in line with how hard core terrorists in the middle east do their dastardly business. The middle eastern terrorists also have a death wish (why else have so many suicide bombers?), which also dovetails with the Reds piling thousands fuel covered tires around themselves. Any relation to how Jim Jones' and David Koresh's brainwashed minions perished are not coincidental.

Abhist is the coward for not holding an election because he know he will lose

[Mosha]

How are they been fed?

[RickBradford]

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

[animatic]

The opinion writer dances around the answer to his question.

Yet, in the middle he gives the plain answer instead of all the cute window dressing answers:

Officially, the reds say they have turned colourless (or multi-coloured?) because they believe that the government is on the verge of cracking down on their protesters. Their rationale is that if the police or army try to disperse the red protesters, they won't be able to find them anymore. They may still be protesters, but they are no longer red.

And to further confuse the law-enforcement officials (if there are any left), they may not be able to separate normal shoppers from the real protestors, even if they come determined to put an end to the protest.

from: The Nation newspaper

Basically, the Reds are cowards. They know they're doing bad things, and just like naughty children, they're running from responsibility. Not much different than the man stopped on the motorbike which carried several dozen grenades (last night) who ran after being detained by cops. Why the cops couldn't detain him is attributable to lousy law enforcement, but that's another facet of this crazy imbroglio going on in Bangkok and throughout Thailand.

Incidentally, avoiding being identified (and shirking responsibility) is in line with how hard core terrorists in the middle east do their dastardly business. The middle eastern terrorists also have a death wish (why else have so many suicide bombers?), which also dovetails with the Reds piling thousands fuel covered tires around themselves. Any relation to how Jim Jones' and David Koresh's brainwashed minions perished are not coincidental.

Abhist is the coward for not holding an election because he know he will lose

Boiler plate response. Try and up the quality of the rhetoric.

[animatic]

How are they been fed?

Umbilicals and red placentas.

[mandon]

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

where are the enforcers coming from?

surely some farangs here will be arrested too like the brit lady with false/fake passport.

[mandon]

How are they been fed?

macdonalds and kfc mostly -compliments of many farangs

[sammycic]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

I think the word you were searching for was drivel...

2 reasons I assume.

1 ) The Nation is a sponsor of Thaivisa the last several months,

and that explains why BP won't allow posts.

2 ) like it or not, these are talking points as a jump off for discussion of the news.

It is not exclusively Nation articles posted, but if we ignore the blanket Nation slagging comments,

there is often tons of grist for the debating mill here.

I am sure you are right. If you didn't post the nation drivel there would be no need for the pages and pages of comments from all the farangs who understand and know everything about how Thais think and would they should do or not do in their own country.

Because whatever farangs think does not matter one little bit to Thais.

[DocHolliday]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

If you make such statement you should enlighten and advise all members which 'decent source' is a decent one...

Edited April 29, 2010 by DocHolliday

[Elwood62]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

DONT READ IT THEN SIMPLE

[brahmburgers]

By not wearing red, the have a better chance of escaping and mingling with non-protesters. This will limit the Governments options for a crackdown...

1. A crackdown can only be done, after telling all non-protesters to leave the area and giving them time to do so.

2. A crackdown, will most likely have to be conducted at night, when the malls are closed, so protesters can't run into the malls and mix with regular citizens.

3. The Government may we wise now, to order a curfew, then cracking down on the protesters, a few hours after the curfew starts. That way, nobody, besides the protesters, have any business being there and they will get the right people, regardless of what color shirt, pants or bra they happen to wear, at the time

Then again, this will cause a problem outside of Bangkok, because it gives protesters a chance to gather undetected, until it is too late. From a Red perspective, definitely a clever move.

You're assessing the situation from a reasoned perspective. That's not Thai style. Thais look at the situation from different perspective, a mix of superstition and subjectivity, indecision, worry, non-researched, non-resolve. Get in to the Thai mind-set, and you'll get a better idea of why the problems have grown so big and polarizing.

Abhist is the coward for not holding an election because he know he will lose

Are you saying each PM should hold an election when a rowdy mob makes such noise and messes - as to force that person to do so? It's called 'mob rule.' There is a Constitution (however flawed) in Thailand. Abhisit has the option to abide by the Constitution by calling election in Dec. 2011. He doesn't have to abide by his offer of Dec. 2010 because one of the Reds (or two, if you include Thaksin) gruffly said 'no' to Abhisit's decent offer. One or two Reds making a critical decision is not how democracy works, but that's how things work within the Red camp. I challenge Midas or any other Red apologist to name one instance where the Reds used democratic methods within their own organization.

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

That's ok for starters, but some of the Reds may actually have ID cards. Their leaders and cell captains certainly do. I say arrest anyone they can when the shit hits the fan. Detain them all and sort them out methodically. Of course they'll all deny they are/were involved with the protest, as the Reds always deny anything illegal or incriminating they do. Problem is, police are not good at arresting (they let the grenade carrying motorcycle driver run off), and they're absolutely no good at hanging on to protesters, once they're arrested. In sum, security forces are inept.

It doesn't help that their leaders are also inept and wimps. For each day the hammer doesn't come down, the rally gets more rowdy and entrenched and potentially harmful for people and property in the vicinity. It's ironic that Bkk has the highest real estate values in Thailand, yet even in the best of times it's a crappy place to reside. Now, it's even dumpier, and has thousands of tires covered in fuel just waiting to be ignited - like a slowly exploding dirty bomb. Any person residing near or visiting the protest sites with a child should be busted for child endangerment.

And this is the country which wants to build four nuclear power plants - can't wait.

[chev]

I dont' think anyone is really fooled into thinking the protest is over. The large barricades are a bit of a give away. Hopefully the road closures around the protest site will keep innocent people out of the way and make it easy to identify the people participating in the protest. At this point if you aren't a red stay out of the area.

most viruses are colourless, yet their ability to strike can be fatal wherever you are,whoever you are and whenever they are ready and have gone amuck.

[sammycic]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

If you make such statement you should enlighten and advise all members which 'decent source' is a decent one...

BBC World News wonderful interview on Hardtalk yesterday with the P.M. very hard hitting interview about what and who created this mess.

[lazurus]

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

Arrest somebody. The red convoy that was cut off yesterday should have been rounded up and arrested, not allowed to go back to the main rally site. Start arresting the protesters, get them off the street. Cut out the catch and release policy, this isn't fishing. They are breaking the law, start enforcing it and they'll get the message. Keep sending them back to join the protest and it will never end.

[Koh_Falang]

By not wearing red, the have a better chance of escaping and mingling with non-protesters. This will limit the Governments options for a crackdown...

1. A crackdown can only be done, after telling all non-protesters to leave the area and giving them time to do so.

2. A crackdown, will most likely have to be conducted at night, when the malls are closed, so protesters can't run into the malls and mix with regular citizens.

3. The Government may we wise now, to order a curfew, then cracking down on the protesters, a few hours after the curfew starts. That way, nobody, besides the protesters, have any business being there and they will get the right people, regardless of what color shirt, pants or bra they happen to wear, at the time

Then again, this will cause a problem outside of Bangkok, because it gives protesters a chance to gather undetected, until it is too late. From a Red perspective, definitely a clever move.

I dont think this will change things much... Theres still a group of people cauising shit,so as you mention in point 1 its still easy to identify who they are...

The big problem is how to do that crackdown on the main protest site without significant loss of life... I have an idea where you just get highly fortified water cannons with dirty big earth moving buckets on the front and drive a path through the blockade... Get 6 of those bastards driving through and it will clear the roads at least...

Its gotta be better then having a few troops shooting rubber bullets and being shot at in the process...

[chev]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

DONT READ IT THEN SIMPLE

but they are so juicey and that's what make it so readable and entertaining on a day when one is rained in .

[chev]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

If you make such statement you should enlighten and advise all members which 'decent source' is a decent one...

BBC World News wonderful interview on Hardtalk yesterday with the P.M. very hard hitting interview about what and who created this mess.

a lot of talk has taken place...yet, nothing happened.

they can talk till the cows come home.

where's the pizza i ordered?

[chantorn]

The opinion writer dances around the answer to his question.

Yet, in the middle he gives the plain answer instead of all the cute window dressing answers:

Officially, the reds say they have turned colourless (or multi-coloured?) because they believe that the government is on the verge of cracking down on their protesters. Their rationale is that if the police or army try to disperse the red protesters, they won't be able to find them anymore. They may still be protesters, but they are no longer red.

And to further confuse the law-enforcement officials (if there are any left), they may not be able to separate normal shoppers from the real protestors, even if they come determined to put an end to the protest.

from: The Nation newspaper

Basically, the Reds are cowards. They know they're doing bad things, and just like naughty children, they're running from responsibility. Not much different than the man stopped on the motorbike which carried several dozen grenades (last night) who ran after being detained by cops. Why the cops couldn't detain him is attributable to lousy law enforcement, but that's another facet of this crazy imbroglio going on in Bangkok and throughout Thailand.

Incidentally, avoiding being identified (and shirking responsibility) is in line with how hard core terrorists in the middle east do their dastardly business. The middle eastern terrorists also have a death wish (why else have so many suicide bombers?), which also dovetails with the Reds piling thousands fuel covered tires around themselves. Any relation to how Jim Jones' and David Koresh's brainwashed minions perished are not coincidental.

Abhist is the coward for not holding an election because he know he will lose

Boiler plate response. Try and up the quality of the rhetoric.

The RED may by coward and stupid like a cow. However, they only follow and learn from the YELLOW, who went colorless first.

[jonnog]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

[whybother]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

"not elected by the people"

Again, a red supporter doesn't understand the electoral process in Thailand.

How can they ask for democracy when they don't even understand it!

A minority of the population doesn't get the government that they voted for.

[eggomaniac]

The OP is so, so UNbrilliant. I do NOT want the reds to win, but have been warning for months to STOP underestimating them.

In battle, the officers cover their symbols of rank. The Viet Cong and Iraqis succeed, guess how? dumb OP.

I used to play chess with a guy who I could always beat by trading queens, if not he could beat me. He said I was 'rude' playing like that, that 'chess is not played that way'. I decided to be rude and kill him every time.

I hope the OP can see what a crybaby the loser was!?

------------------------

The Prime Minister is living in a bunker for his safety. The Northern provinces are HELD by the red army, aka commandeer a military train in shorts and sandals if they wanted.

wear red at HOME! Not wear red on the front lines,great military strategy, but OP "don't do that it's rude and unfair" [THE DEMARCATION POINTS of which are being decided by the reds BTW, FYI.]

--------------

There are only certain specific strategies to stop the red shirt tide. The Joseph Solution and The Joseph Plan mollifies the Reds into accepting a new, fair, stable system, it makes the Yellows happy, too, AND it kills Thaksin's influence on Thai politics. He 'evaporates' into obsolescence!

After the autumn military reshuffle, the chances of success go from difficult to improbable, though.

The OP, if it was not so sad, the myopic vision, it would be funny!

---------------

A red shirt win Thailand loses, big time! A red shirt loss Thailand loses, big time!

<<< This is TRUE this is TRUE / this is TRUE

The Joseph Solution & The Joseph Plan! the only way out [if they want a way out! maybe they, reds and yellows are just having TOO MUCH FUN? seriously! culture of enuremnt after 80 years of gang warfare politics!

-------

One silver lining, no grey lining, is they making their pig trough smaller! ha ha on them

Edited April 29, 2010 by eggomaniac

[midas]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

bravo bravo !

[Redsunset]

Any group or person who takes their babies and young children into a potentially violent zone such as the occupied area at Ratchaprasong is either a coward, mentally defective, or a parent who guilty of child abuse. And all this while the fat man runs away from a fight to dine on fried chicken in air conditioned comfort.

I laughed when I read the story of ole' Kwanchai a.k.a. Isaan Rambo [hahaha!], "hiding in a van" as his compatriots shot it out against the army, then running to McDonald's to pork down a HUGE order of french fries and a burger.

Man alive, he is a disgusting piggy with no backbone and about as much courage as the Cowardly Lion on the Wizard of Oz.

[lazurus]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

Each member of the democrat led coalition was elected by the People. The PPP ran into trouble when they bought their seats from the People. Abhisit will certainly hold elections. There is no evidence that he will hold onto power beyond his term, which ends in 2011. He is not obligated to hold elections before that time, any sooner would be a compromise. How many governments around the world call elections early if they think they are going to lose? Elections should only be held when the safety of the population is restored. Elections should only be held when candidates from each party can campaign without being intimidated. Elections should be held that are free from vote buying, I know that is unlikely. When the elections are held a large portion of the population will vote for the democrats. The People are also made up of those who do not support the reds or the PTP, they shouldn't lose their representation because of an angry mob.

In the last election the seats decided by proportional representation where the voter is asked to choose a party the democrats and the PPP received almost exactly the same amount of support (39.6%). That suggests that as a party the democrats have significant support. I'm sure the reds would like us all to believe that the PTP would get 100% of the vote in elections held today, but that just isn't the case.

In 2006 The TRT won the election which leads to their claim that Thaksin is the legitimate leader of Thailand. Remember that those elections were boycotted by the opposing parties. The TRT got 15.8 million votes. Despite not having anyone else to vote for 13.6 million Thais showed up at the polls and voted either No vote or cast invalid ballots. The TRT, PPP and PTP do not represent the whole country. In a democracy you have to respect all citizens, not just the loudest ones.

Edited April 29, 2010 by lazurus