Airport Rail Link (again Sorry)

[siam2007]

1 hour ago, Lakegeneve said:

ARL extension to DMK - finally about to be built 

The Eastern HSR line has now advanced to preparation of a tender -reportedly by May. The ARL extension to DMK which is now part of the Eastern HSR line to U-Tapoa will thus finally be tendered. So we might  see work starting by early 2019 as this section is the 1st tender. Not quite the 2013 priority tender as it then was but getting there......

 

Once the civil works tender is completed, a tender regarding rolling stock should be issued sometime later this year (hopefully).  It is worth noting that period from contract to delivery usually takes 2 years for new rolling stock. Thus, even if a contract was signed in late 2018/early 2019, we won't see any new  until mid 2021 at the earliest. And that's without any delays.

The SRT Board has to have some sort of record when they approve the budget for purchasing 7 new, 5 car sets in mid 2013 and it takes at least 8 years for any new trains to be running!

 

 

The Airport rail link truly is a disgrace for Thailand, and the entire hapless SRT management needs to be kicked out.

That is what tourist encounter upon arrival at Swampy:

- waiting up to two hours at immigration

- then proceeding to the Taxi counter and wait for another 30 minutes sometimes

- then being told by the Taxi driver that the 20 Km ride to downtown costs 800 Baht and no Meter will be used

- then jumping out of the Taxi exasperated to use the ARL instead

- then being squeezed near to unconsciousness  on board the ARL

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, siam2007 said:

The Airport rail link truly is a disgrace for Thailand, and the entire hapless SRT management needs to be kicked out.

That is what tourist encounter upon arrival at Swampy:

- waiting up to two hours at immigration

- then proceeding to the Taxi counter and wait for another 30 minutes sometimes

- then being told by the Taxi driver that the 20 Km ride to downtown costs 800 Baht and no Meter will be used

- then jumping out of the Taxi exasperated to use the ARL instead

- then being squeezed near to unconsciousness  on board the ARL

 

Think of it as a kind of tourist orientation session for the rest of what they'll encounter during their visit/vacation to Thailand. Those in charge are simply trying to get the visitors quickly acclimated upon arrival to the way things work here...

[josephbloggs]

On 15/03/2018 at 2:33 PM, siam2007 said:

 

 

The Airport rail link truly is a disgrace for Thailand, and the entire hapless SRT management needs to be kicked out.

That is what tourist encounter upon arrival at Swampy:

- waiting up to two hours at immigration

- then proceeding to the Taxi counter and wait for another 30 minutes sometimes

- then being told by the Taxi driver that the 20 Km ride to downtown costs 800 Baht and no Meter will be used

- then jumping out of the Taxi exasperated to use the ARL instead

- then being squeezed near to unconsciousness  on board the ARL

Do you want to be a bit more dramatic?

 

I fly in and out very frequently.  I have never waited anywhere near two hours at immigration.  Flew in today and the queue was all the way out of the snake and down the ramp.  It took 40 minutes.  40 minutes is still way too long but two hours is ridiculous.  Quite often - more often than not in fact - I am through in less than 5 minutes.

 

Taxi queue is normally very quick.  Never waited 30 minutes, ever.

 

I have never ever, not in any of my trips through Suvarnabhumi since it opened, never been ripped off by a taxi or had one that didn't use the meter.  Not once.

 

Never jumped out of a taxi exasperated to use the ARL.

 

I totally agree the ARL is very overcrowded at peak times and unacceptably so - I use it for commuting most days - but an exasperated tourist boarding at the airport will most likely get a seat.  It gets busier and busier as it goes down the line.  Also agree that the SRT management is the worst in Thailand and utterly incompetent.  But please cut out the melodrama.  All your post was missing was the "final nail in the coffin of the tourist industry" line....

[teatree]

On 3/9/2017 at 12:39 PM, Lakegeneve said:

As mentioned, if the SRTET does order these new cars they would be from Siemens which is the supplier of the original ARL rolling stock. The rolling stock is Desiro II which is a commuter rolling stock NOT metro. It is not meant to run at a metro frequency regardless of perceived demand. 

 

This line is a commuter/suburban line NOT a metro line. The issue with overcrowding specifically relates to the lack of rolling stock, 5 cars per train would solve that problem as it should have done 2-3 years ago.

Of course more rolling stock needs to be introduced but shouldn't they be the 'right' ones?  It is ironic that the internal layout of the BTS is much more suited to carrying lots of people with suitcases than the actual airport train.  I am not talking about frequency, I am talking about the internal configuration of the trains.

 

The current trains are very inefficient, for example:

 

* Only 2 sets of doors per carriage. Trains wait for an age at stations like Makkasan while passengers shuffle all the way down the aisles before finally getting out and then passengers coming on often create a bottleneck by standing around the door areas. Very often people cannot get on the train because the door area is absolutely stuffed, yet a few metres down the aisle there is space going unused.  Woefully inefficient at times.  Surely more doors could be put on future trains.

 

* The standing spots right next to the door areas are too narrow and often doors become single file only (especially when large suitcases are put there) and again it can take a long time for people to trudge off and then for others to get on.  The BTS has a much wider area, there is no reason why future ARL trains can't be like this.

 

* The area around the connections between trains can fit maybe 6 people at a squeeze in a small hot uncomfortable space.  The BTS can fit a lot more than that.  I understand there may be technical issues (e.g. ARL travels at faster speeds) that may prevent an open area like the BTS being added, but I am sure a better solution can be found than what there is at present.

 

Why not have similar train as they do in Singapore?  I have taken the train from Changi to downtown and the train was great - lots of doors, very little seating and LOTS of space for huge suitcases and backpacks. 

 

I am not totally sure this is the train from the airport to the centre but it did look very similar to this one.  Why not have an internal layout like this?  Very efficient.

 

[Lakegeneve]

2 hours ago, teatree said:

Why not have similar train as they do in Singapore?  I have taken the train from Changi to downtown and the train was great - lots of doors, very little seating and LOTS of space for huge suitcases and backpacks. 

 

I am not totally sure this is the train from the airport to the centre but it did look very similar to this one.  Why not have an internal layout like this?  Very efficient.

 

This looks like a picture of one of the APMs at Changi. The internal layout is fine for a short APM travelling a few hundreds meters, not for a much longer journey.

 

Note that APMs will eventually be installed at both Swampy and DMK for transferring between Terminals. 

[Lakegeneve]

2 hours ago, teatree said:

Of course more rolling stock needs to be introduced but shouldn't they be the 'right' ones?  It is ironic that the internal layout of the BTS is much more suited to carrying lots of people with suitcases than the actual airport train.  I am not talking about frequency, I am talking about the internal configuration of the trains.

 

The current trains are very inefficient, for example:

 

* Only 2 sets of doors per carriage. Trains wait for an age at stations like Makkasan while passengers shuffle all the way down the aisles before finally getting out and then passengers coming on often create a bottleneck by standing around the door areas. Very often people cannot get on the train because the door area is absolutely stuffed, yet a few metres down the aisle there is space going unused.  Woefully inefficient at times.  Surely more doors could be put on future trains.

 

* The standing spots right next to the door areas are too narrow and often doors become single file only (especially when large suitcases are put there) and again it can take a long time for people to trudge off and then for others to get on.  The BTS has a much wider area, there is no reason why future ARL trains can't be like this.

 

* The area around the connections between trains can fit maybe 6 people at a squeeze in a small hot uncomfortable space.  The BTS can fit a lot more than that.  I understand there may be technical issues (e.g. ARL travels at faster speeds) that may prevent an open area like the BTS being added, but I am sure a better solution can be found than what there is at present.

 

Why not have similar train as they do in Singapore?  I have taken the train from Changi to downtown and the train was great - lots of doors, very little seating and LOTS of space for huge suitcases and backpacks. 

I use the train every time I go to Singapore. It is true what you say but don't forget that overcrowding on the East West line during peak is an issue. That is not a great time to have a large suitcase. They are upgrading the signalling on that line to help increase frequency.

 

A few points to note. Both the BTS and ARL use Siemens rolling stock (as does the MRT Blue line). The ARL stock is Desiro II which is built for Commuter/Suburban lines, hence the 2 doors. The BTS/MRT stock has 4 doors. Metro trains are built for high density and high frequency.

The ARL is essentially a commuter line which runs to an airport. 80% of the pax are people NOT travelling to/from the airport. The line is built to eventually have 10 car operations - that's why the platforms are very long. (BTS/MRT for eventual 6 car operations). If the ARL was currently using 5 car trains with the same current timetable none of this overcrowding, and all of the pertinent points that you have made, would be an issue.

 

A number of mistakes have been made with the operation of this line but the main one is not purchasing more rolling stock as pax rates grew. If it have of happened back in late 2013, we would've had new 5 car trains for the last 3 years the ARL would have been running fine the last few years. 

[Lakegeneve]

Long term it is worth remembering that once the ARL is extended to DMK (with the Eastern HSR line), an APM will be built to connect with T2 (currently under construction) and there will eventually be a southern link along Bang Na Trat rd from Bang Na intersection running to the future T3 terminal - either BTS or light rail..

[Lakegeneve]

The SRT is now looking at leasing some rolling stock by next year until the new Eastern HSR line is done. 

[Lakegeneve]

On 3/15/2018 at 1:15 PM, Lakegeneve said:

ARL extension to DMK - finally about to be built 

The Eastern HSR line has now advanced to preparation of a tender -reportedly by May. The ARL extension to DMK which is now part of the Eastern HSR line to U-Tapoa will thus finally be tendered. So we might  see work starting by early 2019 as this section is the 1st tender. Not quite the 2013 priority tender as it then was but getting there......

 

Once the civil works tender is completed, a tender regarding rolling stock should be issued sometime later this year (hopefully).  It is worth noting that period from contract to delivery usually takes 2 years for new rolling stock. Thus, even if a contract was signed in late 2018/early 2019, we won't see any new  until mid 2021 at the earliest. And that's without any delays.

The SRT Board has to have some sort of record when they approve the budget for purchasing 7 new, 5 car sets in mid 2013 and it takes at least 8 years for any new trains to be running!

The Eastern HSR tender is out and the expectation is that a winning bid will be awarded by July/August with work commencing by the end of the year ....if all goes smoothly - which it never does.

 

The Transport Ministry has decided that whoever wins the bid to build and run the Eastern HSR will also take over operating the ARL. The SRTET will be abolished and a new SRT entity will be established to mange the 4 planned HSR lines.

 

I now estimate that any new rolling stock for the ARL will not be available until 2022 at the earliest unless the previously mentioned leasing plan come to fruition - knowing the SRT it probably won't.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

 The SRTET will be abolished and a new SRT entity will be established to mange the 4 planned HSR lines.

 

I now estimate that any new rolling stock for the ARL will not be available until 2022 at the earliest unless the previously mentioned leasing plan come to fruition - knowing the SRT it probably won't.

 

 

     

[josephbloggs]

Outstanding effort by the SRTET tonight.  About 6.30pm tonight our train to Suvarnabhumi stopped at Ramkhamhaeng, people got off, people got on, doors closed.  Of course it was packed but that is not unusual - everyone managed to squeeze on.  After five minutes we hadn't moved and the doors opened again.  15 minutes later we still hadn't moved, the platform was getting busy.  After 20 minutes the security guards told us to get off the train.  We all got off, then the train drove away.

 

Not once in the whole time was there a single announcement or explanation of what was going on - what the delay was, how long it might be, or why, eventually, we were being asked to get off the train.  Nothing over the intercom (the electrics were still working - aircon and lights were fine - and so was train operation as it drove off after it was empty), nothing from the station staff and guards, not a word.  Things can go wrong but they should at least inform the passengers but literally not a single word from anyone.  After 20 minutes I left and went to find alternative transport so I don't know how long people were stuck for in the end.  What was amazing though was the patience of the Thais.  Not one person moaned, but also not one person asked what the heck was going on.

 

I'm not one of the ARL haters - I think it provides an excellent service.  But the SRT / SRTET really need putting out of their misery.  No standards, no training, no pride.

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Outstanding effort by the SRTET tonight.  About 6.30pm tonight our train to Suvarnabhumi stopped at Ramkhamhaeng, people got off, people got on, doors closed.  Of course it was packed but that is not unusual - everyone managed to squeeze on.  After five minutes we hadn't moved and the doors opened again.  15 minutes later we still hadn't moved, the platform was getting busy.  After 20 minutes the security guards told us to get off the train.  We all got off, then the train drove away.
 
Not once in the whole time was there a single announcement or explanation of what was going on - what the delay was, how long it might be, or why, eventually, we were being asked to get off the train.  Nothing over the intercom (the electrics were still working - aircon and lights were fine - and so was train operation as it drove off after it was empty), nothing from the station staff and guards, not a word.  Things can go wrong but they should at least inform the passengers but literally not a single word from anyone.  After 20 minutes I left and went to find alternative transport so I don't know how long people were stuck for in the end.  What was amazing though was the patience of the Thais.  Not one person moaned, but also not one person asked what the heck was going on.
 
I'm not one of the ARL haters - I think it provides an excellent service.  But the SRT / SRTET really need putting out of their misery.  No standards, no training, no pride.
 
 

I wonder how many people missed their flight?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[josephbloggs]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

I wonder how many people missed their flight?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Dunno - luckily I only needed to get home.  I have no idea how long the service was eventually down for.  But there would have been a massive knock on effect as trains from behind would have been totally full for a while.  No trains leaving Suvarnabhumi either (although the trains were working in the other direction obviously after our one stopped there would have been a lack of trains making the return journey).  At rush hour on a Friday too, lovely.

[teatree]

I have noticed that at ARL stations fans have been fitted all along the platforms.  They have been there for months now.  Are there any plans to switch them on?  Or are they for ornamental purposes?

 

Given that most stations have about as much ventilation as a cow shed, it would be nice to get some air flowing through while waiting for a train.

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, teatree said:

Are there any plans to switch them on?  Or are they for ornamental purposes?

The contract for connecting them to power hasn't been let yet.