ND:

They were prepared for the boarding. That's what caused nine of them to be killed.

Had they not attacked the Israeli military carrying out their assigned duties in accordance with accepted maritime law, this thread would not even exist.

You must remember, there are eight other ships that are not being discussed here.

chuck, Its frustrating for me that you have taken my comment in the opposite meaning for which it was meant. My bad writing. By being prepared I meant, to allow the Israelies to board, check for contraband and so forth, PEACEFULLY.

This isnt rocket science. I agree with everything you have stated above, please don't confuse that.

I took it the way you intended. Perhaps my words could have been better used. My bad.

This is where we do not agree and why I support Israel. I think that the Israelis are willing to trade land for peace and in fact they have already done so - The Sinai and parts of Jordan. (They also handed over Gaza to the Palestinians who used it to fire missiles at them). They are tired of nothing but war.

The Palestinians (the majority) have no interest in peace and there have been plenty of polls that show that the majority support terrorism and killing civilians. They go through the motions of peace talks to buy time to acquire more advanced weapons and to gain sympathy, but all they really want to do (the great majority) is "drive the Jews into the sea", but they keep losing every war.

The Arab countries - and the rest of the world  - have already recognized Israel's right to exist, so that is not on the table anymore. It is really up to the Palestinians to bargain in good faith and that has not happened. Israel is willing to forgive and forget, but they need a partner in peace and, so far, there has not been one who was sincere. 

Well said, UG. That sums it up rather well.

You must remember, there are eight other ships that are not being discussed here.

Yes, you bad!

U.N.: Flotilla raid sign of policy failure

This is where we do not agree and why I support Israel. I think that the Israelis are willing to trade land for peace and in fact they have already done so - The Sinai and parts of Jordan. (They also handed over Gaza to the Palestinians who used it to fire missiles at them). They are tired of nothing but war.

The Palestinians (the majority) have no interest in peace and there have been plenty of polls that show that the majority support terrorism and killing civilians. They go through the motions of peace talks to buy time to acquire more advanced weapons and to gain sympathy, but all they really want to do (the great majority) is "drive the Jews into the sea", but they keep losing every war.

The Arab countries - and the rest of the world - have already recognized Israel's right to exist, so that is not on the table anymore. It is really up to the Palestinians to bargain in good faith and that has not happened. Israel is willing to forgive and forget, but they need a partner in peace and, so far, there has not been one who was sincere.

i take it youve never met an israelie settler from the west bank, east jerusalem or the occupied territories then!

i would embed more footage, but there just too much to put on one page. maybe youd like to take a look once you open this link, at all the others.

^you know the biggest joke about people like this, is that they never go off and do their 2/3 years national service and 1 month milluim reserve duty. the same type that spend most of their time going back and forth to other countries and only take the time to come back and vote against a liberally minded government who are interested in talking about a peaceful solution to the conflicts.

these people, and believe when i say i have seen this with my own eyes, throw stones at an ambulance carrying one of their own IDF soldiers to hospital. after being injured trying to protect israels security, but they see it as being justified because it is on a religous day/holiday and in their eyes it is seen to be breaking jewish law.

i take it youve never met an israelie settler

The majority of Israelis want peace. Every country has people that do not. However, many settlers want peace also, but real peace.

'Not about land'

I was invited to visit a school in Efrat settlement. Pupils Ari Ehrlich, Matan Dansker and Yadin Gellman were born there.

They are a couple of years away from serving in Israel's army where they may well end up manning one of the many Israeli checkpoints controlling Palestinian movement within the West Bank.

Do they accept the international community's land-for-peace proposal? Would they give up their homes for peace with the Palestinians?

"Clearly I don't want to leave my house," says Ari. "But if there was a guarantee of peace, I'd go." The other two agree.

"But it's not about land anymore," insists Matan. "Palestinians can have land for peace. We've tried it before, like when Israel left Gaza. It doesn't work. When you see what a Hamas leader wants, he's not interested in Efrat, in my school or my house. His problem is me being an Israeli. A Jew. It's not about land, it's about destroying us."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7919832.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb7XOGJoCkg

The REAL story on Kenneth O'Keefe

I am very interested on why some of the members here are supporting Israel no matter what illegal things they do (the Israeli government).

Are you some kind of newborn Christian or something?

Self defense is not a crime. Why do some members continually support criminal nations and murdering terrorists?  

Self defense is not a crime. Why do some members continually support criminal nations and murdering terrorists?  

You are again dodging the real question .

The question is: Why are you supporting Israel?

I'm not dodging anything. You just can't seem to get it through your head. I believe that Israel deserves the right to exist and the right to defend themselves against those who want to destroy them. It is simple really. 

Self defense is not a crime. Why do some members continually support criminal nations and murdering terrorists?

For FY2010, the Obama Administration requested $2.775 billion in Foreign Military Financing to Israel.

Gaza children

For FY2010, the Obama Administration requested $2.775 billion in Foreign Military Financing to Israel.

Gaza children

Hard to believe it is 2010...How far we have not come

Maybe it is time for the Palestinians in Gaza to stop electing terrorists with no interest in peace to represent them?

http://www.wayodd.com/baby-suicide-bomber/v/4673/

Are you some kind of newborn Christian or something?

Well they are something yes....But they never answer for anything...nor are they made to by TPTB

Instead they only try to make their transgressions look less evil by claims as to why they just had to do it.....Kind of like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roC2dHJiVyo

 Palestinian sympathizers are trotting out the tired "One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" argument to justify atrocities. The Geneva and Hague Conventions, however, explicitly define Palestinian suicide bombers and gunmen as war criminals. The Hague Convention requires combatants to (1) "have a fixed distinctive emblem [e.g. a uniform] recognizable at a distance," (2) "carry arms openly," and (3) "conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war." They don't even need to bomb a Passover seder to deserve death; violation of the first provision alone is a capital war crime.

Why has death been the traditional punishment for combatants who masquerade as civilians? In the police training program known as "Hogan's Alley," officers must make split-second decisions to shoot or not shoot at targets that represent armed criminals and innocent bystanders respectively. The Geneva and Hague Conventions protect both soldiers and noncombatants by making a clear difference between "shoot" and "don't shoot" targets in war.

As an example, the laws of war immunize the Red Cross and its Muslim equivalent, the Red Crescent, from military action. The same laws assure combatants that anything that displays these emblems is harmless. A Palestinian ambulance driver was recently caught carrying 20 pounds of explosives underneath a seven-year-old boy. Israel failed in its duty not only to itself, but also to every legitimate medical aid worker in the region, by not executing him for misusing the Red Crescent to conceal munitions.

Terrorists have deliberately chosen to make "Pallie Alley" a deadly game in which the "shoot" and "don't shoot" targets look exactly alike. This causes the deaths of many innocent Palestinians when Israelis must make split-second shoot/don't shoot decisions. This is why any terrorist who masquerades as a civilian should, upon conviction by court-martial, be put to death.

http://www.omdurman.org/warcrime.html

There are plenty of Palestinian War Crimes. They reap what they have sewn. 




 

I'm not dodging anything. You just can't seem to get it through your head. I believe that Israel deserves the right to exist and the right to defend themselves against those who want to destroy them. It is simple really. 

So for the record what makes you believe Israel has the right to exist on that particular piece of land?

(To be clear, I am not saying Israel has no right to exist)

Israel's Right to Exist

The State of Israel was created in a peaceful and legal process by the United Nations. It was not created out of Palestinian lands, but rather out of the Ottoman Empire, which had been ruled for 400 years by the Turks who lost it when they, fighting alongside Germany, were defeated in World War I. There were no "Palestinian" lands at the time because there were no people claiming to be Palestinians, but rather simply Arabs who lived in the region of Palestine.

It was only after World War I that the present states of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq were also created – also out of the Turkish Empire by the British and French victors. Jordan was created on about 80 percent of the Palestine Mandate, which was originally designated by the League of Nations as part of the Jewish homeland. Since then, Jews have been prohibited from owning property there.

In 1947, a UN partition plan mandated the creation of two states on the remaining 20 percent of the Palestine Mandate: the State of Israel for the Jews, and another state for the stateless Arabs. But the rulers of eight Arab states did not want a non-Arab state anywhere in the Middle East. Thus they rejected the UN arrangement and simultaneously launched a three-front war of annihilation against the newly created state of Israel -- on the very day of its creation in 1948. Israel begged for peace and offered friendship and cooperation to its neighbors. The Arab dictators rejected this offer and answered it with a war, which they ultimately lost.

A state of war in the Middle East has continued uninterruptedly ever since, because most of the Arab states have refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel, and have refused to recognize the legitimacy of the Jewish state. To this day, the Arab states and the Palestinians refer to the failure of their effort to destroy Israel as Al-Nakba -- The Catastrophe. What for one people was a joyous founding, was seen by the other as a disaster.

Had there been no invasion of Israel by Arab armies whose intent was overtly genocidal, there would have been a state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948.

From 1949 to 1956, Egypt waged war against Israel, launching more than 9,000 attacks from terrorist cells set up in the refugee camps of the Gaza Strip. The 1956 "Sinai campaign" ended Egypt's terror war, even though U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower forced Israeli Prime Minister Ben Gurion to return the Sinai to Egypt without a peace treaty.

But the Arab war continued on other fronts. In 1964, Yasser Arafat began a campaign of terror whose avowed goal was the destruction of Israel and the genocide of its Jews. Sponsored first by Kuwait, and later by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, and Iran, Arafat declared unending war against Israel until all of "Palestine" would be liberated, redeemed in "fire and blood."

In 1967, Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked Israel for a second time and were again defeated. It was in repelling these aggressors that Israel came to control the West Bank and the Gaza strip, as well as the oil-rich Sinai desert. Israel elected not to annex these territories it had captured from the aggressors, but neither did it withdraw its armies or relinquish its control over the region because the Arabs once again refused to make peace.

In 1973 the Arab armies again attacked Israel. This invasion was led by Syria and Egypt, abetted by Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and five other countries that gave military support to the aggressors. Israel again defeated the Arab forces. Afterwards, Egypt -- and Egypt alone -- agreed to make a formal peace.

In 1987 the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) initiated a violent, six-year intifada(uprising) directed against Israeli soldiers and civilians alike, after false rumors of Israeli atrocities had circulated through Palestinian territories. during the first four years of the uprising, Palestinians carried out more than 3,600 Molotov cocktail attacks, 100 hand grenade attacks, and 600 assaults with guns or explosives. These actions resulted in the deaths of 16 Israeli civilians and 11 Israeli soldiers, in addition to the wounding of more than 1,400 Israeli civilians and 1,700 Israeli soldiers.

In 1993 the Oslo peace process was initiated, based on the pledge that both parties would renounce violence as a means of settling their disputes. But the Palestinians never followed through on this pledge. During the so-called "peace process" -- between 1993 and 1999 -- they perpetrated more than 4,000 terrorist attacks that resulted in the deaths of more than 1,000 Israelis. During this same period, Israel gave the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza a self-governing authority, a 40,000-man armed "police force," and 95 percent of the territory their negotiators demanded. But Israel's efforts to achieve peace were in vain. In 2000, the Palestinians officially launched a new, second Intifada against Israel, effectively terminating the peace process.

Adapted from: "Occupation and Settlement" by David Meir-Levi (June 5, 2005),Israel's Right to Exist

There are plenty of Palestinian War Crimes. They reap what they have sewn.

terrorists come from both sides then

A great song from a great band and not about killing Arabs.

ok, but why post it here?

and why post it?

in the context of this thread, many people could find it offensive.

Because I was bored of posting videos of Palestinian atrocities to counter your videos and it is a good anti-war song that is based on the book "The Stranger" by Camus. It gets a little silly just posting video after video to the point where all of them - from both sides - will be ignored.

Just one of the very similar comments left under the videos you are posting. Now tell us all about how the hatred for Israel has nothing to do with anti-Semitism and it is all Zionist lies.

Hitler was a visionary...he left a few of these scums to show the world why he tried to annihilate them in the first place.

GOD BLESS HIS SOUL

Was there ever a Palestinian People or a Palestinian Nation? The facts.

There never was a Palestinian people or a nation called Palestine. The Arabs invented the term after the fact. The so-called Palestinians lived mostly in Jordan and Syria. Yasser Arafat, the leader of the so-called "Palestinians," is actually an Egyptian!

Back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper "Trouw" published an interview it had with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. This is what he had to say:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

The word Palestine was coined by the Romans to mock the indigenous people of the area. After the end of Roman rule the term disappeared until resurrected by the British after the surrender of the Ottoman Empire in World War I. The British Mandate of Palestine was created at that time. There were no Palestinians then- just Jews, Arabs and other ex-subjects of the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottomans were foreign Islamic conquerors and before them there was a succession of foreign rulers in the region going back to Roman times. Until the establishment of the modern State of Israel, there had been no locally based sovereign state in the area; the previous such state was also known as Israel, which was disestablished by the Romans.

No Islamic state; not a single one, regarded Jerusalem as its capital. It is now the capital of the Jewish State of Israel and the last sovereign state (other than the Crusader kings)to have it as its capital was the Kingdom of Israel.

So it was never Palestinian land. There was never, ever a sovereign state called Palestine. No such state exists even now.

Two states were created out of the British Mandate of Palestine. One is Arab and the other is Jewish. The Arab state has the bigger slice of the Mandate of Palestine and is now called the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

Jordan is ruled by foreigners imported by the British. After the defeat of the Hashemite king of Hejaz by the Saudi clan of Nejd, the British gave them the Arab state created out of the Mandate of Palestine.

The Saudi clan conquered Hejaz and annexed it to Nejd to create the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

The Hashemite rulers brought with them their bureaucrats and army from Hejaz. The local population, mainly Arab-speaking Christians, were marginalised.

So the Palestinians already have a sovereign state. It is called Jordan. Until 1967, what is now the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt.

The sensible solution to the problem will be for Israel to return the Arab areas of the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. If the Arabs love a word created by the Romans to insult them, then they might as well change the name of Jordan to Palestine. That is the sensible two-state solution of the issue of the British mandate of Palestine.

http://www.islamicbo...-palestine.html

More REAL History of Israel

Re: Population figures during 1922 1941

by Margie » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:40 pm

In reviewing a book by Michael Makovsky on Churchill and Zionism Dore Gold includes this statement:

'…in June 1922 Churchill would declare that the Jews had returned to Palestine "as of right and not by sufferance, and that this was based on their ancient historical connection." Speaking before the Peel Commission years later in 1937, Churchill snapped at a commission member who referred to the Jews in Palestine as a "foreign race." For Churchill, the Jewish people were the true indigenous population of the land: "The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it."'

Also:

In 1857, the British consul in Palestine, James Finn, reported: "The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population."

James Finn, British Foreign Office Documents 78/1294, Pol. No. 36

'In 1913, a British report, by the Palestinian Royal Commission, quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal plain along the Mediterranean Sea: "The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the [Jewish] Yabna village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants."'

The British Hope-Simpson Commission recommended, in 1930, "Prevention of illicit immigration" to stop the illegal Arab immigration from neighboring Arab countries.

15.The Hope-Simpson report, (London 1930)

http://www.jewishvir...library.org/jso ... mpson.html

The British Governor of the Sinai (1922-36) reported in the Palestine Royal Commission Report: "This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria."

The governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey El Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Houran had moved to Palestine.

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Holy Land, noted in 1939 that "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."

There is no Arab indigenous population and many so-called friends of Israel in Britain are unaware of that.

http://www.theolive-....php?f=3&t=4025

Another interesting fact is that Jerusalem had far more Jews than Arabs ( I think that it was about 75% Jewish, but I could be mistaken) from at least 1870 and probably further back. Despite all the recent historical revisionism, there were always a good number of Jews in the area and most of the Arabs were attracted from other lands in order to work for them. There was never a Palestine.