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Aid Ship Stormed

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There was a programme on TV in the UK a couple of years ago that took two 10 year old boys, one from Ramallah and one from Tel Aviv and arranged for them to meet each other for a couple of days. At first they were very suspicious of each other because of the propaganda that they were fed in school. It showed them in their respective classrooms and it also showed the hatred that teachers on both sides pumped into these 10 year old kids.

As they got to know each other they began to realise that their was nothing stopping them being friends apart from what adults had been force feeding them and it seemed reasonable to assume that if they'd been left together for longer they'd have become good friends.

The programme revisited them 8 years later. All hope had been lost. Another 8 years of vile propaganda by both sides had destroyed any hope at all that they might still even want to meet each other.

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Being at war with someone tends to breed hostility, but if one side is willing to make concessions for peace – in fact, has done so repeatedly - and the other side just plain refuses to stop the hate and attacks, what is their way out? As I have said many times, Israel is dealing with the Arabs harshly, but they have little choice. :(

Unlike you who preach from a distance I've sat in the UK for the past 40 years and watched 'The Troubles' play out. I even got to join in on the 21st November 1974 when the IRA blew the Tavern In The Town up 30 minutes after I left the place. The conflicts in Northern Ireland and the Middle East are the same. They are driven by those who are unwilling to accept that both sides of the argument have legitimate grievances which can only be resolved by talking. Your implication that only one side is willing to make concessions is the mechanism that allows extremists on both sides to carry on killing each other. As long as people like you carry the argument there will never be a resolution to the problem.

Oh really? The UK was never in the remotest position of being wiped out by the Irish, so your example has little merit. The UK is not Israel which is surrounded by enemies, who want to destroy every man, woman and child in the country - the analogy is not even close.

"If the Arabs would lay down their arms, there would be no war. If the Israelis would lay down their arms, there would be no Israel." ;)

Your implication that only one side is willing to make concessions is the mechanism that allows extremists on both sides to carry on killing each other.

Sinai, Gaza. What are the Arab concessions other than not attacking and losing again and meanwhile funding Hamas behind the scenes?

No, I am saying that Israel has good reason to do what they do. Most Israelis would make peace in a second if there were any interest on the other side. However, there isn't. :(

"most israelies would make peace in a second"

give me a break, you really havent been there have you?

UG is right....most Israelis would make peace in a second.....provided that they had evicted all Arabs from all lands that hold aquifers, and all lands suitable for farming, and all cities. They would make peace in a second if all the Arabs retreated to the desert or died.

these are what i call real israelies, the type that even though they dont particulary want to go and do their stint, they do. yes they would rather have peace, especially if you were to look at the amount of members from my kibbutz that had lost their lives whilst serving their country.

You know I saw some interesting shows on this recently. I admit I felt bad for these folks. It was a show that interviewed many that had returned & did not like what was happening & also those who had not left yet & as you said did not want to go. These were not peacenik types. The folks who had come home were hardened fighters & did not agree with what they were being asked to do. Same with those who had not left yet. It was not fear that made them unsure.

Sadly the change will have to come from these folks also. They cannot just make films & say they do not agree but go along grudgingly. If they feel it is wrong then they must stand behind their beliefs if they feel they are valid.

some do flying.

most kibbutzim members belong to political parties like "meretz" which is a more liberally minded party, that is pro peace and into talking to finding a way of resolving the situation. others protest against hard right wing policies and anti arab sentiments held by orthodox and religious jews.

mainly because most of the time the buck always stops at their doorstep, seeing as they have to go off and do the national service and defend the security of the nation, when the crap hits the fan. many well known and decorated israeli ex and active service personnel such as euhud barak and yitzak rabin have tried to go down this route, only to be halted in their tracks. not by arabs/palestinians but by their own countrymen.

here in lies the problem when you get characters such as ariel sharon and bejamin netanyahu who are anti concession to anything and are backed by the far right minded citizens of the country.

There might be no need for the blockade & occupation if it were not for Hamas, but they have not stopped calling for the destruction of Israel or shooting missles at civilians. The only reason that suicide bombing stopped was because of the fence that the "International Community" always whines about.

thats cause its not a "fence" its a wall, a bloody great big one

most kibbutzim members belong to political parties like "meretz" which is a more liberally minded party, that is pro peace and into talking to finding a way of resolving the situation. others protest against hard right wing policies and anti arab sentiments held by orthodox and religious jews.

Thanks for finally admitting the truth. Most  Israelis want peace, but they need a sincere partner to deal with.  

Mahmoud Abbas might be that guy as he wants to get rid of Hamas. He is no prince, but perhaps the best bet considering the alternatives.

"most israelies would make peace in a second"

give me a break, you really havent been there have you?

UG is right....most Israelis would make peace in a second.....provided that they had evicted all Arabs from all lands that hold aquifers, and all lands suitable for farming, and all cities. They would make peace in a second if all the Arabs retreated to the desert or died.

It is interesting that the holier-than-thou, "both sides are responsible" posters have no problem with this little hate speech. :whistling:

Come on guys................Two deep breaths.

Two obviously passionately held sets of views which will not change................It is what it is.

Agreed. Having been off this thread for a few days, I come back and start straining my way thru the posts, its what I imagine walking in quick sand to be like.

Anyway, at least we can debate the issues without launching rockets.....can't we? :unsure:

So what. A "wall" that works. ;)

says who?

The tin foil hat wearing press are reporting imminent Iran strike. Crying wolf again?

gold prices going up, do they know something? Third US carrier, 4,000 Marines augment US armada opposite Iran

Best stock up on gas n petrol :(

633740552130206060-Distraction.jpg

football...oil spill... v v shaped whoopsie recession...aid ship... = g20 Iran green light?

dont forget thoses russian spies :ph34r:

So what. A "wall" that works.   ;)

says who?

All of the innocent men, women and children who have not been blown up by suicide bombers.  B)

some do flying.

Thanks Tigerfish

Surprised that there was a good show/interview on the University television station here today.

On it were two young women..conscientious objectors

one Israeli & one Palestinian

They were very well spoken & if they represent the younger citizens then perhaps there is hope some day.

Reminded me of what Endure posted also....except these girls were in their 20's I would guess.

The Israeli also mentioned this web site which I have not looked into yet....

http://whoprofits.org/

So what. A "wall" that works. ;)

says who?

All of the innocent men, women and children who have not been blown up by suicide bombers. B)

it hasnt worked out for the innocent men women and children on the other side thou :(

Construction began in 2002. The original plan was that the fence should stretch a full 486 miles, the entire length of Israel's eastern border. The current estimate for its completion is some-time around the end of 2010. Varying in width between 30 and 150 meters, this $2 billion combination of trenches, electronic fences, ditches, watchtowers, concrete slabs, checkpoints, patrol roads, and razor coil is priced at around $2 million per kilometer. Some seventy-five acres of greenhouses and twenty-three miles of irrigation pipes have already been destroyed on the Palestinian side. More than 3,700 acres of Palestinian land have been confiscated, some of it so that the wall may run yards away from Palestinian hamlets and villages. Already, 102,000 trees have been cut down to clear its path.

My link

So what. A "wall" that works. ;)

says who?

All of the innocent men, women and children who have not been blown up by suicide bombers. B)

Apparently few people remember all the bombings before the wall went up. To them, having your wife and children blown up in a terrorist bus attack is on par with having the Israelis build a wall on your land.

it hasnt worked out for the innocent men women and children on the other side thou  

That is true. It is not as convenient for their elected representatives to blow up cafes in Israel. :whistling:

Somehow the resident Hamas fans seem to have overlooked this:

logo.gif

Hamas destroys dozens of homes in southern Gaza

By RIZEK ABDEL JAWAD | AP

Published: May 17, 2010 02:54 Updated: May 17, 2010 02:54

RAFAH, Gaza Strip: Hamas police wielding clubs beat and pushed residents out of dozens of homes in the southern Gaza town of Rafah on Sunday before knocking the buildings down with bulldozers, residents said.

Gaza's militant Hamas rulers said the homes were built illegally on government land. Newly homeless residents were furious over Palestinians on bulldozers razing Palestinian homes.

For years, Palestinians have criticized Israel for destroying houses, mostly because they were built without permits issued by the military. Now, Rafah residents complained, their own government, run by the Islamic militant Hamas that seized power in Gaza in July 2007, has done the same.

"They promised reform and change — instead they've destroyed our homes," shouted Miasar Gan, a 54-year-old woman. Gan said she and her husband had nowhere else to go.

"I found my mattress, and that's where I'll be sitting," she said, standing next to the concrete chunks — all that was left of her house.

Her neighbor, Nazira Abu Jara, 56, said policewomen wearing face veils typical of conservative Muslim women beat her with clubs until she fled her house with her husband and two children. "Neighbors help us get by with charity. We can't afford to build again," Abu Jara said.

Others picked through rubble to retrieve dusty clothing and mangled furniture.

Residents said between 30 and 40 homes were torn down, ranging from concrete structures to tin shacks. They did not know how many people were affected. Hamas officials did not allow reporters into the area until the demolition was over.

Residents said more demolitions in the area were expected Monday.

Rafah's mayor, Issa Nashar, promised alternative housing.

Gaza's housing minister Yousef Al-Mansi said he had no information about such housing.

© 2010 Arab News

Hamas destroys dozens of homes in Gaza

The Strip's rulers say buildings knocked down with bulldozers were constructed illegally on government land. 'They promised reform and change – instead they've destroyed our homes," shouts newly homeless resident. More here.

NOTE: You would think that the world would be outraged over destroyed homes in Gaza, because when Israel demolishes a home in J'lem that was built illegally, its a crime against humanity and the world screams racism and death to Israel. Just saying. KGSPosted by KGS at 11:31 AM icon18_email.gificon18_edit_allbkg.gifLabels: Bulldozers, Gaza, Hamas

0 comments:

Hamas wrecks 'illegal' Gaza homes

Hamas, the Palestinian movement which controls the Gaza Strip, has forced residents of a southern town from their homes and demolished their houses.

The radical Islamist group says people living at the edge of the town of Rafah had built their homes illegally on government land.

Witnesses said dozens of people were pushed out of their homes but Hamas says the number has been exaggerated.

Palestinians in Gaza have been angered by the demolitions.

Palestinians are more used to seeing homes destroyed in areas occupied by Israeli military or police for being built without the correct permits, correspondents say.

Club-wielding Hamas policemen - and some female police officers wearing face-covering veils - forced people from their homes and then brought in bulldozers.

Government land

Hamas said that only seven houses were demolished, but witnesses told reporters the real number was around 30 or 40.

Some of the buildings were temporary shacks built by people who had been made homeless in an Israeli incursion into Gaza between December 2008 and January 2009.

Residents said they were sold land permits by a local land owner, but Hamas said the land was meant for government use.

"They promised reform and change - instead they've destroyed our homes," Miasar Gan told reporters.

Reporters said they were barred from the area by Hamas until the demolitions were over. In 2005, Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip. The Gaza strip has been controlled by Hamas since 2007 when they forced out rivals Fatah.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/8687974.stm

I was never a fan of Hamas. What they did was wrong, especially when the people had no where else to go, some were "temporary shacks built by people who had been made homeless in an Israeli incursion into Gaza between December 2008 and January 2009" Their original homes were destroyed by IDF by the looks.

so are you sympathetic to the people of Gaza then?

I am sympathetic to anyone who is living in a miserable situation - even criminals in prison - but I also think that they are much to blame for the situation they are in. Electing Hamas was just the latest in a long line of mistakes.

It is rather telling that Hamas destroys "Palestinian" homes and uses their them and children as human shields, but their TV apologists never seem to care. Why don't they post and cry about videos like these?

Why don't they post and cry about videos like these?

cause you seem to be doing a fine job :whistling:

It becomes more and more obvious that the crocodile tears cried by the left for the "poor Palestinians" have a lot in common with the shafting they get from their Arab "brothers" who just exploit them as pawns in their vendetta against the Jews.  :violin:

It becomes more and more obvious that the crocodile tears cried by the left for the "poor Palestinians" have a lot in common with the shafting they get from their Arab "brothers" who just exploit them as pawns in their vendetta against the Jews. :violin:

Got any other news flashes? Maybe that the Earth revolves around the Sun?

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