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Aid Ship Stormed

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The three of you already have been 'Exposed' in my little experiment in another thread.

It is called : Cognitive dissonance.

I am sure you have to Google it.

Have a good day you supporters of terror.

Sorry, Alex, but I must disagree.

I have sympathy for much of Islam, having worked in Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia (>15 years), Libya (>10 years), Indonesia and UAE (>2 years each) and Bangladesh.

I do not have sympathy for certain aspects of the interpretation of Islam, such as the treatment of women in many countries (Indonesia and Libya are exceptions to a greater/lesser extent), the poor standards of education in all the mentioned countries and the attitude to the authorities / of the authorities. The teaching in this instance appears to be that one must not question the power of the authority placed over one, as it is Allah's will that that person wields the authority.

On the other hand, I have spent my life working on construction sites, and that is an environment where a dictatorship is essential. One cannot build a hospital or refinery by democratic consensus, one must have a single point of instruction and everyone accepts this. But that is utilising specialist knowledge and is a limited duration. In such circumstances dictatorship is accepted and it works.

Going back to Islam and bringing in the Western Media. As I have said above, I have sympathy for Islam, and for other religions, which were all developed many centuries ago to organise expanding societies into a cohesive unit that could cater for further expansion and managing the changing world about it. This worked for all the main religions and for other religions while they were not impacted by more forceful philosophies that were expanding at a greater rate. But such impacts brought about the demise of the lesser religions, such as the Inca, Aztec and Maya civilisations in the Americas, reduced Zoroastrianism to be minor a cult in the India/Iran region, Druse to be the same in the Lebanese hinterland and so on.

But Islam now, at >1400 years old, is the same as Christianity was at the same stage. That was the time of schisms - Martin Luther, Calvin, Knox were rebelling against Rome. Previously the Guelphs had done the same, but without success. Christianity at 1400 years old was about to burst on to the Americas, bringing fire and sword to civilisations older than it.

Elements of Islam want to do the same now. These fundamentalists, terrorists, whatever you wish to call them, are imbued with the same fervour as the Pope's Holy Office was five hundred years ago. And that cost the world unknown loss, due to the wiping out of so much knowledge, so much culture.

The Western press are in the business of selling their product. The larger the number of readers, the larger the advertising income and the larger the profit. People like Robert Maxwell, Rupert Murdoch and their ilk are not in business to tell you what the truth is. They are in business to make profit, pure and simple. If this is best done by catering to the lowest common denominator of their potential readers outlook, then that is where they will go. Do not expect to find the truth in any one publication - everyone these days puts a spin on what they write. Thus the fundamentalist Islamics are demonised whatever they do. Yet a lot of what is done in the name of Islam is good, very good. And is performed by these same fundamentalists. Only a small number go off the rails completely and carry out terrorist acts.

But these terrorists are supported by their co-religionists, I know. Partly through Zakat contributions that are mis-directed, partly through other acts of charity. Again, don't blame the charitable donor, blame the perverted use of the funds later.

This has been a ramble, I have just been typing as I think about things, not sorting it into a proper treatise. So it will be easy to pick it apart and find contradictions, I am sure. But it does cover my feelings in this area, where I do not consider that there is any cognitive dissonance.

Thank you for reading through this jumble.

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I understand HB, and I have worked with many Islamic people, none of them violent against me.

And all of them agree the media hypes it all up. Islam is a religion of peace, just a few fundamentalists that where funded by the US and encouraged throughout history (Study the Russian occupation and how the CIA funded the most aggressive Taliban), named freedom fighters).

Same for those new born Christians that are brainwashed. Same for those Islamic Saudi Arabian people that allegedly were involved in 9/11.

The boat was in international waters, there cannot be any denying about that.

We can have a good discussion about all of this, I just wish some of the people here were a bit more open minded.

Cheers,

Alex

The boat was in international waters, there cannot be any denying about that.

A military blockade against a violent entity like Hamas is perfectly legal. Even the BBC has admitted that the whole thing was a set up by violent activists and a bunch of useful idiots. How many times are you going to bring up points that have already been proved moot? :rolleyes:

And all of them agree the media hypes it all up. Islam is a religion of peace, just a few fundamentalists that where funded by the US and encouraged throughout history (Study the Russian occupation and how the CIA funded the most aggressive Taliban), named freedom fighters).

I'm just going from memory here so feel free to do some research and show where I got it wrong. The Russians left around 1988-89. The Taliban (which translates as "Students") first appeared around 1995. This student-army weren't freedom fighters, they were fighting against the corrupt Afghan gov't and turned out to be worse when they gained power.

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The Taliban began to form in the void of the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan, they may not have been part of that war, but were certainly created because of it.

The boat was in international waters, there cannot be any denying about that.

A military blockade against a violent entity like Hamas is perfectly legal. Even the BBC has admitted that the whole thing was a set up by violent activists and a bunch of useful idiots. How many times are you going to bring up points that have already been proved moot? :rolleyes:

what about attacks on fishing boats, would that be legal?

just ordinary fisherman trying to eek out a living for themselves

“The Israeli marines shoot at Palestinian boats which are suspected of smuggling arms into Gaza, posing a threat to the security of Israel," Avikhay Adrii, an Israeli army spokesman, told IRIN. “Some groups use Palestinian fishing boats for terror purposes and the Israeli navy must protect Israel’s shores.”

In early February Israeli Navy Commander Maj-Gen Eliezer Marom told reporters that Palestinian “terror organizations” were “making cynical use of Gaza’s fishermen for terror purposes” after the discovery on an Israeli beach of a third explosive device disguised as a barrel. He said any collaboration with the Palestinian militant groups who claimed responsibility for the launching of the barrels would harm fishermen’s livelihoods. “Regular security ships guard the area, and allow Gaza’s fishermen to fish peacefully. I call on them not to cooperate with terror organizations and not to allow them to use these fishing boats for these purposes,” he said.

Rockets are being smuggled into Gaza and shot into civilian areas of Israel. They have to protect themselves. Maybe the "Palestinians" should start thinking about the consequences of electing terrorist organizations that are dedicated to the destruction of Israel to represent them.

The Taliban began to form in the void of the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan, they may not have been part of that war, but were certainly created because of it.

The USA funded, armed and trained the Mujahadin (remember a guy called Ossama Bin Laden?). The Taliban evolved from that.

The boat was in international waters, there cannot be any denying about that.

A military blockade against a violent entity like Hamas is perfectly legal. Even the BBC has admitted that the whole thing was a set up by violent activists and a bunch of useful idiots. How many times are you going to bring up points that have already been proved moot? :rolleyes:

what about attacks on fishing boats, would that be legal?

just ordinary fisherman trying to eek out a living for themselves

Donny, don't forget the Jewish terrorists whose tactics inspired the present day terrorists. Two Israeli prime ministers started out as terrorists, and the IDF evolved from that cruel and wicked group. Funny thing is, it was the Israeli government that officially labelled Irgun as terrorists.

The U.S. prevented Afghanistan from becoming another Communist satellite state of the Soviet Union and the unsuccessful war helped lead to their collapse of the Communist Dictatorship in 1991. It was a necessary at the time.

Donny, don't forget the Jewish terrorists whose tactics inspired the present day terrorists.

Mankind has used terrorist tactics since the beginning of time. Trying to blame it on the Jews is nothing short of imbecilic.

65573-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Shocked-Doctor-Shining-A-Light-Straight-Through-A-Mans-Head.jpg

Funny thing is, it was the Israeli government that officially labelled Irgun as terrorists.

It is "funnier" that some people do not realize that the government of Israel had rejected this tiny group and their tactics and made them illegal. :rolleyes:

The U.S. prevented Afghanistan from becoming another Communist satellite state of the Soviet Union and the unsuccessful war helped lead to their collapse of the Communist Dictatorship in 1991. It was a necessary at the time.

The US also backed Muammar Gadaffi and his group against King Idris.

Not to prevent a Communist coup, merely because King Idris supported, and was supported by, the British Army.

The US wanted the Libyan oil, Britain had the Libyan oil (BP again :rolleyes: ). In the end it went to Mobil with Gaddafi's blessing. Now he has reveted to BP.

Well that is terrible. Everyone knows that the British have never screwed anyone over in their own interests. :lol:

Let me put a mathematical question to those of you that might be Religion of Peace apologists.

It is estimated there are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world.

It is estimated that between 1% and 7% would be considered Islamic extremists.

Assuming the lower number of 1%, that would mean there are 15,700,000 potential terrorists out there to try and kill each and every non-believer in the world.

This means their potential military force of 15,700,000 is larger than the combined forces of China (7,555,000), Russia (3,796,100), US (3,789,396), Netherlands (88,630), United Kingdom (435,500) and New Zealand (11,974).

If this doesn't get your attention, it is likely nothing will.

______________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Good point. Have a green my man chuckd!

Agreed, and therefore a green from me too chuckd.

Let me put a mathematical question to those of you that might be Religion of Peace apologists.

It is estimated there are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world.

It is estimated that between 1% and 7% would be considered Islamic extremists.

Assuming the lower number of 1%, that would mean there are 15,700,000 potential terrorists out there to try and kill each and every non-believer in the world.

This means their potential military force of 15,700,000 is larger than the combined forces of China (7,555,000), Russia (3,796,100), US (3,789,396), Netherlands (88,630), United Kingdom (435,500) and New Zealand (11,974).

If this doesn't get your attention, it is likely nothing will.

______________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia....umber_of_troops

http://en.wikipedia....slim_population

http://en.wikipedia....lamic_terrorism

Where did you get that outrageous estimate of "between 1% and 7%"?

Unless that is a fact, your sensationalism is just that.

these people arent treated any better than dogs

Maybe they should not have voted for the Hamas terrorists to run Gaza after the Israelis handed it over to them - to convince them to make peace. Constantly shooting missiles into Israel has not made things any easier for them either.

OK I gotta pipe in UG

Prior to there lection the US and Israel were ranting and raving it has to be a democracy give them the vote let the people decide yada yada and then when the people voted they did not like the outcome complete hypocricsy as it did not come out HOW THEY WANTED to and never recognized the peoples vote.

I aint no Hamas fan but there is a difference between Hamas and the Majority of Palestinians

I posted on another threat I used to be Pro Israel but over the past few years what I have seen from them is a disgrace and criminal I do beleive the world is tiriing of Israels heavy hand.

And as for rockets can you really call them that ?? compared to what Israel drops on them fireworks more like

'FarangCravings' timestamp='1282636180' post='3835240']

And as for rockets can you really call them that ??

If one fell on your house, you would think otherwise.

Maybe the US thought that the "Palestinians" would be smart enough to elect someone who would not just make things worse and worse for them. Yet another stupid mistake and then they whine and cry it is so unfair when it comes time to pay for the choices that they make.

They really are their own worst enemy. :rolleyes:

It becomes more and more obvious that the crocodile tears cried by the left for the "poor Palestinians" have a lot in common with the shafting they get from their Arab "brothers" who just exploit them as pawns in their vendetta against the Jews. :violin:

Like you say UG Hamas are thugs I dont think any one will argue that however why do Palestinians support them ? Because they are the only ones even remotely capable of doing anything to the IDF and Israel, there is no excuse for using children as shields but on the other hand theres no excuse for Israel killing children either but it happens,

you have to remember those being held are vicitims just like the ordinary people being denied Chocolate, spices herbs or the kids denied toys to play with on the ridiculous banned items for import

I gotta say that was really damaging to me when I saw they were denying kids toys and chocolate and candy it certainly pushed home the goal was more than just trying to stop weapons getting in they were punishing the regular palestinian children and adults.

'FarangCravings' timestamp='1282636180' post='3835240']

And as for rockets can you really call them that ??

If one fell on your house, you would think otherwise.

Maybe the US thought that the "Palestinians" would be smart enough to elect someone who would not just make things worse and worse for them. Yet another stupid mistake and then they whine and cry it is so unfair when it comes time to pay for the choices that they make.

They really are their own worst enemy. :rolleyes:

Rockets if you look at the facts you will see hardly anyone has been killed from the thousands of fireworks launched from Gaza but if you look at the deaths caused by Israel its is certianly eye opening.

As for Hamas and voting I agree with you but look at it from the worlds standpoint you spout democracy and how one man one vote shoul be the rule of law then when it happens its a total back track kinda makes you understand why people dislike the US and Israel when they dont accept the vote of the majority when it does not go in there favor.

They were punishing everyone in Gaza for electing and supporting Hamas (both Egypt and Israel are now allowing most items in).

I do not see what choice they have as the "Palestinians" have never negotiated for peace in good faith and everyone knows it. I'm sorry, but no one is nice to sworn enemies who only want to destroy you and will not accept an Olive branch no matter how many times it is offered. It is up to the "Palestinians" how they are treated.

They were punishing everyone in Gaza for electing and supporting Hamas (both Egypt and Israel are now allowing most items in).

I do not see what choice they have as the "Palestinians" have never negotiated for peace in good faith and everyone knows it. I'm sorry, but no one is nice to sworn enemies who only want to destroy you and will not accept an Olive branch no matter how many times it is offered. It is up to the "Palestinians" how they are treated.

I disagree

You cant offer an olive branch in one hand and then start building on land you have promised to stop buidling on in the other theres no credability there.

i kinda expect Israel to handle themselve way better than the Palestinians but it comes over that they really dont give a Sh&%$T what the Palestinians think especialy Netanjahoo its quite like an arrogance like we will do what we want cause you can't do shit and if you try we will crush you.

thats how I feel god knows how those living in Palestime feel but I think it might be worse than me.

Israel needs a good PR firm

Have they said that they will stop building? They consider the land theirs to trade for peace, so I don't think so. The "Palestinians" have made their own bed...

these people arent treated any better than dogs

Maybe they should not have voted for the Hamas terrorists to run Gaza after the Israelis handed it over to them - to convince them to make peace. Constantly shooting missiles into Israel has not made things any easier for them either.

OK I gotta pipe in UG

Prior to there lection the US and Israel were ranting and raving it has to be a democracy give them the vote let the people decide yada yada and then when the people voted they did not like the outcome complete hypocricsy as it did not come out HOW THEY WANTED to and never recognized the peoples vote.

I aint no Hamas fan but there is a difference between Hamas and the Majority of Palestinians

I think it was a mistake not to recognize Hamas after the election. In a democracy, people have to learn (slowly) that they are voting for <deleted>. We should have let Hamas ruin life for the Palestinians without the US and others help. Let the people see for themselves that they voted the wrong way so they can vote the bums out next time. Otherwise, Hamas is just given a convenient excuse to use with the electorate. All of this doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't protect itself, they should.

I dont think anyone beleives that Israel should not have a right to protect itself, hel_l im up for taking Iran out if its required, but the problem people are having with Israel is they are heavy handed and come across as a bully with the backing of whatever they do legal or not by the US.

Israel is supposed to be smart but somethings wrong where someone like me has switched his view over the past few years because of what Israel is doing to basically a powerless people, Im not talking about Hamas Im talking about the regular palestinians who are ultimately the ones that are suffering the most. even from their elected power Hamas

Nobody likes to see children hungry and indiscriminate bombings etc by a Goliath over a David

I think the world is changing its sympathy from Israel and in reality its wrong but they are doing it to themselves

Sorry, but Goliath is all the millions of Muslims and their huge countries who surround tiny Israel and refuse to let them be. I agree that the left has turned their back on Israel, but, as usual, their reasons for doing so have nothing to do common sense or doing what is right. Stalin always referred to them as "useful idiots" - even though they supported him - and he sure got that one right.

Sorry, but Goliath is all the millions of Muslims and their huge countries who surround tiny Israel and refuse to let them be. I agree that the left has turned their back on Israel, but, as usual, their reasons for doing so have nothing to do common sense or doing what is right. Stalin always referred to them as "useful idiots" - even though they supported him - and he sure got that one right.

Come on UG your a smart guy you dont beleive that in case you forgot Israel took out all its neibours in 1967 in 6 days and it could do the same today

Israel is the Goliath in the Middle East and if there is any question of that add the USA backing and you can no longer argue the fact

Sorry, but Goliath is all the millions of Muslims and their huge countries who surround tiny Israel and refuse to let them be. I agree that the left has turned their back on Israel, but, as usual, their reasons for doing so have nothing to do common sense or doing what is right. Stalin always referred to them as "useful idiots" - even though they supported him - and he sure got that one right.

What does Israel gain from this neverending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

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