That is where you are wrong. There is no guarantees when surrounded by enemies and Israel has come close to losing in one war. As has been said many times, if the ''Palestinians'' lay down their weapons, there would be peace with Israel. If Israel lay down its weapons, there would be no Israel anymore ... That is why Israel has to deal with those who would destroy them so harshly.

That is where you are wrong. There is no guarantees when surrounded by enemies and Israel has come close to losing in one war. As has been said many times, if the ''Palestinians'' lay down their weapons, there would be peace with Israel. If Israel lay down its weapons, there would be no Israel anymore ... That is why Israel has to deal with those who would destroy them so harshly.

Sorry UG

WHAT ARMS are they to lay down ?? the rockets ? all I see on the news is a few kids throwing stones and some sling shots hardly a need to lay down there weapons when faced with the arms of Israel completely one sided

I know Hamas Militants have arms but the majority have to make do with rocks when attacked by Israel

I actually dont beleive based on Israels past that there would be peace unless it was purely on Israels terms I really dont.

No weapons? Are you kidding? Here is how the radicals treat their own children.

No weapons? Are you kidding? Here is how the radicals treat their own children.

I cant argue with that UG its wrong but its the only way they think they can fight back they have no real weapons to do israel any real harm except if they slip an suicide bomber through its wrong for sure but I can understand there frustration with the way they are treated by the Iraelis

I dont think we can ever agree a few years ago I would been right there with you but not now Israel is now a heavy handed unjust bully in the region that think they are above International law.

The video is wrong but so is a lot of what israel does, is just as bad.

Israel is not the one who declared war. The Arabs have over and over again and keep coming back for more. What is Israel supposed to do other than fight back?

I admit the whole situation is terrible, but somebody has to stop fighting and Israel will cease to exist if they do anything other than what they are doing. I'm afraid that your sympathy is misplaced.

Would you Agree UG, to get back to the original land devision between Palestinians and Israeli people, let's say before WW2?

If not, why you think that the original designation of this land (before WW2) was wrong?

Just asking.

HISTORY

of

Israel & "Palestine"

Israel today + Jordan today = "Pal estine" Before 1923

Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!

Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as Palestine and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!

http://www.masada200...historical.html

Sure Alex, let's go back to 1923 and give the Palestinians Jordan which was supposed to be their homeland in the first place.

Israel will not be a 'perfect victim'

By George Will

| JERUSALEM ---When Israel declared independence in 1948, it had to use mostly small arms to repel attacks by six Arab armies. Today, however, Israel feels, and is, more menaced than it was then or has been since. Hence the potentially world-shaking decision that will be made here, probably within two years.

To understand the man who will make it, begin with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's belief that stopping Iran's nuclear weapons program is integral to stopping the worldwide campaign to reverse 1948. It is, he says, a campaign to "put the Jew back to the status of a being that couldn't defend himself -- a perfect victim."

Today's Middle East, he says, reflects two developments. One is the rise of Iran and militant Islam since the 1979 revolution, which led to al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah. The other development is the multiplying threat of missile warfare.

Now Israel faces a third threat, the campaign to delegitimize it in order to extinguish its capacity for self-defense. After two uniquely perilous millennia for Jews, the creation of Israel meant, Netanyahu says, "the capacity for self-defense restored to the Jewish people." But note, he says, the reflexive worldwide chorus of condemnation when Israel responded with force to rocket barrages from Gaza and from southern Lebanon. There is, he believes, a crystallizing consensus that "Israel is not allowed to exercise self-defense."

From 1948 through 1973, he says, enemies tried to "eliminate Israel by conventional warfare." Having failed, they tried to demoralize and paralyze Israel with suicide bombers and other terrorism. "We put up a fence," Netanyahu says. "Now they have rockets that go over the fence." Israel's military, which has stressed offense as a solution to the nation's lack of strategic depth, now stresses missile defense.

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That, however, cannot cope with Hamas's tens of thousands of rockets in Gaza and Hezbollah's up to 60,000 in southern Lebanon. There, U.N. Resolution 1701, promulgated after the 2006 war, has been predictably farcical. This was supposed to inhibit the arming of Hezbollah and prevent its operations south of the Litani River. Since 2006, Hezbollah's rocket arsenal has tripled and its operations mock Resolution 1701. Hezbollah, learning from Hamas, now places rockets near schools and hospitals, certain that Israel's next response to indiscriminate aggression will turn the world media into a force multiplier for the aggressors.

Any Israeli self-defense anywhere is automatically judged "disproportionate." Israel knows this as it watches Iran.

Last year was Barack Obama's wasted year of "engaging" Iran. This led to sanctions that are unlikely to ever become sufficiently potent. With Russia, China and Turkey being uncooperative, Iran is hardly "isolated." The Iranian democracy movement probably cannot quickly achieve regime change. It took Solidarity 10 years to do so against a Polish regime less brutally repressive than Iran's.

Hillary Clinton's words about extending a "defense umbrella over the region" imply, to Israelis, fatalism about a nuclear Iran. As for deterrence working against a nuclear-armed regime steeped in an ideology of martyrdom, remember that in 1980, Ayatollah Khomeini said:

"We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world."

You say, that was long ago? Israel says, this is now:

Iran's supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, says that Israel is the "enemy of G0d." Tehran, proclaiming that the Holocaust never happened and vowing to complete it, sent an ambassador to Poland who in 2006 wanted to measure the ovens at Auschwitz to prove them inadequate for genocide. Iran's former president, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, who is considered a "moderate" by people for whom believing is seeing, calls Israel a "one-bomb country."

If Iran were to "wipe the Zionist entity off the map," as it vows to do, it would, Netanyahu believes, achieve a regional "dominance not seen since Alexander." Netanyahu does not say that Israel will, if necessary, act alone to prevent this. Or does he?

He says that CIA Director Leon Panetta is "about right" in saying Iran can be a nuclear power in two years. He says that 1948 meant this: "For the first time in 2,000 years, a sovereign Jewish people could defend itself against attack." And he says: "The tragic history of the powerlessness of our people explains why the Jewish people need a sovereign power of self-defense." If Israel strikes Iran, the world will not be able to say it was not warned.

What does Israel gain from this never ending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

Actually only one has gained ...

Maps are good but best to zoom in a bit.

What does Israel gain from this never ending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

Actually only one has gained ...

Maps are good but best to zoom in a bit.

Superimpose a map that shows where the water is and it is an even more startling picture.

This type of fact is completely ignored by the bigotted right-wing, redneck, warmongers who cry that Israel is offering an olive branch.

The Israeli "olive branch" is "Lets stop fighting; We already have control of most of your land. We have driven you into small, arid pockets of densely packed squallor. We have treated you as sub-human and as 2nd class citizens. We just have a few more aquifers that we want to control, and a few thousand more homes to take over, but after that, if you stop resisting our push and when you accept our one-sided terms, we might stop killing your children for long enough for the world to forget and start applauding our graciousness."

The Taliban began to form in the void of the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan, they may not have been part of that war, but were certainly created because of it.

The USA funded, armed and trained the Mujahadin (remember a guy called Ossama Bin Laden?). The Taliban evolved from that.

I would suggest no one disagrees with the funding aspect and I may be persuaded that the Taliban may have been conceived from extreme!! elements of the group, but they evolved from the void of the withdrawal and no effective, or corrupt gov't in place at the time, early nineties.

Donny, don't forget the Jewish terrorists whose tactics inspired the present day terrorists. Two Israeli prime ministers started out as terrorists, and the IDF evolved from that cruel and wicked group.

I would urge caution here, many world leaders started out on terrorist charges against those in power who disagreed with their particular brand of nationalism.

Kenyatta, Begin, they danced in the streets for Mandela who was only kept in jail because he would not renounce the use of the gun, Adams and of course Washington was labelled a terrorist by the British, to name a few.

A matter of viewpoint

I think it was a mistake not to recognize Hamas after the election. In a democracy, people have to learn (slowly) that they are voting for <deleted>. We should have let Hamas ruin life for the Palestinians without the US and others help. Let the people see for themselves that they voted the wrong way so they can vote the bums out next time. Otherwise, Hamas is just given a convenient excuse to use with the electorate. All of this doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't protect itself, they should.

Although I agree with you, sometimes when you have nothing to lose, you just ain't got nothing to lose, having said that I agree Israel has the right of defence.

But have a look at their last campaigns, high child casualty rates, whatever your view point, they are not part of the war, unless you are looking for the long war and taking out future terrorists.

Unfortunately, you recruit more than you take out.

What does Israel gain from this neverending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

I really have no answer, except perhaps votes in the senate, a continued sympathy vote on one side and bone headed stupidy to take advantage of certain situations on the other,

That is where you are wrong. There is no guarantees when surrounded by enemies and Israel has come close to losing in one war. As has been said many times, if the ''Palestinians'' lay down their weapons, there would be peace with Israel. If Israel lay down its weapons, there would be no Israel anymore ... That is why Israel has to deal with those who would destroy them so harshly.

I presume you mean '73 when Egypt were able to hold their ground and push forward , until they had to come to the aid of the Syrians, went outside of their defensive line and got destroyed.

I agree the Israeli's have to be robust, but they are no longer surrounded by enemies, they do not need to treat the situation with so much contempt, just because they are supported by the only remaining super power.

What does Israel gain from this never ending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

Actually only one has gained ...

Maps are good but best to zoom in a bit.

Superimpose a map that shows where the water is and it is an even more startling picture.

This type of fact is completely ignored by the bigotted right-wing, redneck, warmongers who cry that Israel is offering an olive branch.

The Israeli "olive branch" is "Lets stop fighting; We already have control of most of your land. We have driven you into small, arid pockets of densely packed squallor. We have treated you as sub-human and as 2nd class citizens. We just have a few more aquifers that we want to control, and a few thousand more homes to take over, but after that, if you stop resisting our push and when you accept our one-sided terms, we might stop killing your children for long enough for the world to forget and start applauding our graciousness."

Boy oh boy, are you ever full of hate.

I think it was a mistake not to recognize Hamas after the election. In a democracy, people have to learn (slowly) that they are voting for <deleted>. We should have let Hamas ruin life for the Palestinians without the US and others help. Let the people see for themselves that they voted the wrong way so they can vote the bums out next time. Otherwise, Hamas is just given a convenient excuse to use with the electorate. All of this doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't protect itself, they should.

Although I agree with you, sometimes when you have nothing to lose, you just ain't got nothing to lose, having said that I agree Israel has the right of defence.

But have a look at their last campaigns, high child casualty rates, whatever your view point, they are not part of the war, unless you are looking for the long war and taking out future terrorists.

Unfortunately, you recruit more than you take out.

When Israel suffers child casualties, it's because they are specifically targeted. When the Palestinians suffer child casualties, it's because Hamas and other terror groups use them as human shields.

I think it was a mistake not to recognize Hamas after the election. In a democracy, people have to learn (slowly) that they are voting for <deleted>. We should have let Hamas ruin life for the Palestinians without the US and others help. Let the people see for themselves that they voted the wrong way so they can vote the bums out next time. Otherwise, Hamas is just given a convenient excuse to use with the electorate. All of this doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't protect itself, they should.

Although I agree with you, sometimes when you have nothing to lose, you just ain't got nothing to lose, having said that I agree Israel has the right of defence.

But have a look at their last campaigns, high child casualty rates, whatever your view point, they are not part of the war, unless you are looking for the long war and taking out future terrorists.

Unfortunately, you recruit more than you take out.

When Israel suffers child casualties, it's because they are specifically targeted. When the Palestinians suffer child casualties, it's because Hamas and other terror groups use them as human shields.

"other terror groups" would include IDF?

On 15 January, in Tal al-Hawa, south-west of Gaza City, an 11-year-old boy was made to accompany IDF for a number of hours during a period of intense operations. As the soldiers entered the Palestinian Red Crescent Society building, the boy was made to enter first, in front of the soldiers. While moving through the town the boy was made to walk in front of the group, even when the IDF soldiers met with resistance and were fired upon. On arrival at Al-Quds Hospital, the boy remained in front of the soldiers, but then was subsequently released. This appears to be in direct contravention of a 2005 Israeli High Court ruling on the illegality of the use of human shields.

My link

both parties are as bad as each other

What does Israel gain from this never ending conflict?

What does the Muslim world have to gain?

Actually only one has gained ...

Maps are good but best to zoom in a bit.

Superimpose a map that shows where the water is and it is an even more startling picture.

This type of fact is completely ignored by the bigotted right-wing, redneck, warmongers who cry that Israel is offering an olive branch.

The Israeli "olive branch" is "Lets stop fighting; We already have control of most of your land. We have driven you into small, arid pockets of densely packed squallor. We have treated you as sub-human and as 2nd class citizens. We just have a few more aquifers that we want to control, and a few thousand more homes to take over, but after that, if you stop resisting our push and when you accept our one-sided terms, we might stop killing your children for long enough for the world to forget and start applauding our graciousness."

Boy oh boy, are you ever full of hate.

Well maybe the Arabs should have taken the UN offer of land in the first place instead of attacking Israel over and over again and getting their butts kicked. Israel won that land with their blood and the Arabs lost it through blatant racist stupidity.

Any other country would have driven the "Palestinian" enemy out long ago, but Israel keeps trying to convince them to make peace. Sad though it may be, they have brought their living conditions on themselves, by supporting the terrorism used by their leaders.

both parties are as bad as each other

Then why do your type always support the "Palestinians"? They have no more valid claim to the land than the Jews if you look at history - even in the 200 years - and they are the ones who started the war with the Jews - not the other way around. if you keep starting wars, you can not expect your enemy to treat you nicely.

When Israel suffers child casualties, it's because they are specifically targeted. When the Palestinians suffer child casualties, it's because Hamas and other terror groups use them as human shields.

"other terror groups" would include IDF?

On 15 January, in Tal al-Hawa, south-west of Gaza City, an 11-year-old boy was made to accompany IDF for a number of hours during a period of intense operations. As the soldiers entered the Palestinian Red Crescent Society building, the boy was made to enter first, in front of the soldiers. While moving through the town the boy was made to walk in front of the group, even when the IDF soldiers met with resistance and were fired upon. On arrival at Al-Quds Hospital, the boy remained in front of the soldiers, but then was subsequently released. This appears to be in direct contravention of a 2005 Israeli High Court ruling on the illegality of the use of human shields.

My link

both parties are as bad as each other

Bad as each other? Hardly. What the IDF did in your link above is bad, but it is still a small fraction of what Hamas, etc do. So, while they both have used women and children to hide behind, they aren't equal in how often they have done it. It's like equating a serial killer to Hitler.

When Israel suffers child casualties, it's because they are specifically targeted. When the Palestinians suffer child casualties, it's because Hamas and other terror groups use them as human shields.

Exactly and this naive, goody-goody crap about how the Israelis are supposed to lighten up on the warmongering Arabs is downright silly. They would not be around for long if they did.

This half the problem

Anytime Israel is PROVEN for example in the link above to be no better than what HAMAS do its completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis and they make excuses for Israel using terrorist tactics when they are supposed to be above that

This in my opinion is half the issue if those soldgiers were prosecuted Publicy and locked up for breaking International and Isralei laws then maybe we would be more pro Isralei but instead Israel sticks its middle finger to the world, while using there Slick propoganda machine to try and cover up there terrorist actions by focusing on Hamas's terrosits actions.

Like I said before

HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS

ISRAEL ARE TERRORISTS

No difference between the 2

This half the problem

Anytime Israel is PROVEN for example in the link above to be no better than what HAMS do its completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis and they make excuses for Israel using terrorist tactics when they are supposed to be above that

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

This in my opinion is half the issue if those soldgiers were prosecuted Publicy and locked up for breaking International and Isralei laws then maybe we would be more pro Isralei but instead Israel sticks its middle finger to the world, while using there Slick propoganda machine to try and cover up there terrorist actions by focusing on Hamas's terrosits actions.

Like I said before

HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS

ISRAEL ARE TERRORISTS

No difference between the 2

There is a big difference between the two.You can't or just don't want to see it. Maybe you should get a closer look. Go walk around the streets of Tel Aviv for a few days. Go to some cafes and argue that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is wrong. Then go spend some time walking around Gaza for a few days. Argue with them that their policies toward Israel are wrong. Finally, report back to us your findings.

Just read the article by George Will and on that Iran note I am behind Israel where Iran is concerened but it does not change my view on there treatment and disproportinate force they use on the Paelstinian people.

I beleive that Israel will Attack Iran in the future because they will have too cause we know Iran will use a Nuclear weapon if they get there hands on one.

If Israel acted like they were defending there country insteasd of acting like a big bully and after beating the little kid to the floor they just keep kicking him while he is down people might be a little more sympathetic to them.

the reasson why the world is turning against Israel is time and time again they do things not expected of a legitimate country and in this day and age where we can see things on video with our own eyes there spokes people sound silly denying things when its clear they are lying through there teeth and twisting the truth,

This half the problem

Anytime Israel is PROVEN for example in the link above to be no better than what HAMS do its completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis and they make excuses for Israel using terrorist tactics when they are supposed to be above that

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

This in my opinion is half the issue if those soldgiers were prosecuted Publicy and locked up for breaking International and Isralei laws then maybe we would be more pro Isralei but instead Israel sticks its middle finger to the world, while using there Slick propoganda machine to try and cover up there terrorist actions by focusing on Hamas's terrosits actions.

Like I said before

HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS

ISRAEL ARE TERRORISTS

No difference between the 2

There is a big difference between the two.You can't or just don't want to see it. Maybe you should get a closer look. Go walk around the streets of Tel Aviv for a few days. Go to some cafes and argue that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is wrong. Then go spend some time walking around Gaza for a few days. Argue with them that their policies toward Israel are wrong. Finally, report back to us your findings.

I like cookies with my coffee and while I will be able to get them in Tel Aviv I wont be able to get them in Gaza cause they are banned in case the palestinians start throwing them at the IDF

Have you seen the damage a chocolate chip cookie can do

This half the problem

Anytime Israel is PROVEN for example in the link above to be no better than what HAMS do its completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis and they make excuses for Israel using terrorist tactics when they are supposed to be above that

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

This in my opinion is half the issue if those soldgiers were prosecuted Publicy and locked up for breaking International and Isralei laws then maybe we would be more pro Isralei but instead Israel sticks its middle finger to the world, while using there Slick propoganda machine to try and cover up there terrorist actions by focusing on Hamas's terrosits actions.

Like I said before

HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS

ISRAEL ARE TERRORISTS

No difference between the 2

There is a big difference between the two.

I am not an Isralei and I am not a Muslim and to me like many others we do not see the difference I am sure Israelis can see the difference as can Muslims but out here sitting on the fence SORRY they both commit atrocities only diff is Israel get away with them.

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

So tell me why Israel did not take action against those soldgiers and prosceute them in front of the world and tell us that that is NOT ACCEPTABLE for the IDF to act like that nobody cares that you think its wrong

We want to see the Isralei governement act within the law and take responsibility for wehen there soldgiers act like terrosits

WE EXPECT HAMAS TO ACT LIKE THAT

WE DO NOT EXPECT ISRAEL TO ACT LIKE THAT

and when they condone it by doing nothing it breeds contempt which is what israel is seeing around the world with less and less people being sympathetic to the cause.

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

So tell me why Israel did not take action against those soldgiers and prosceute them in front of the world and tell us that that is NOT ACCEPTABLE for the IDF to act like that nobody cares that you think its wrong

We want to see the Isralei governement act within the law and take responsibility for wehen there soldgiers act like terrosits

WE EXPECT HAMAS TO ACT LIKE THAT

WE DO NOT EXPECT ISRAEL TO ACT LIKE THAT

and when they condone it by doing nothing it breeds contempt which is what israel is seeing around the world with less and less people being sympathetic to the cause.

You forgot to start your post with, "OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong. What the IDF did was NOT 'completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis'"

That's a familiar pattern, much like our Alex. Say something that isn't true, have it pointed out, ignore it and just follow up with more questions. It's like a one way street with some of you people.

This half the problem

Anytime Israel is PROVEN for example in the link above to be no better than what HAMS do its completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis and they make excuses for Israel using terrorist tactics when they are supposed to be above that

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

This in my opinion is half the issue if those soldgiers were prosecuted Publicy and locked up for breaking International and Isralei laws then maybe we would be more pro Isralei but instead Israel sticks its middle finger to the world, while using there Slick propoganda machine to try and cover up there terrorist actions by focusing on Hamas's terrosits actions.

Like I said before

HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS

ISRAEL ARE TERRORISTS

No difference between the 2

There is a big difference between the two.You can't or just don't want to see it. Maybe you should get a closer look. Go walk around the streets of Tel Aviv for a few days. Go to some cafes and argue that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is wrong. Then go spend some time walking around Gaza for a few days. Argue with them that their policies toward Israel are wrong. Finally, report back to us your findings.

I like cookies with my coffee and while I will be able to get them in Tel Aviv I wont be able to get them in Gaza cause they are banned in case the palestinians start throwing them at the IDF

Have you seen the damage a chocolate chip cookie can do

That's a cute reply. But the fact is, in Israel they will debate you. In Gaza they will treat you like a Pakistani youth accused of being a thief.