30 August 2010 Last updated at 14:57 GMT

GERMANY ABOLISHES ITSELF by Thilo Sarrazin

"How we put our country at risk"

Germany central banker condemned for 'racist' book

Mr Sarrazin says his book should be read in full before being criticised The German government has condemned an official with the country's central bank on the publication of his book on immigration issues.

Bundesbank member Thilo Sarrazin's book, Germany Abolishes Itself, states that Muslim immigrants refuse to integrate and are a drain on society.

In a newspaper interview about the book, he said that "all Jews share a particular gene".

The Bundesbank board was to make a decision on his future later on Monday.

'Completely unacceptable'

"The government views the reputation of the Bundesbank as definitely harmed, domestically and abroad, by Mr Sarrazin's comments," said Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert.

"The Bundesbank must be concerned about this."

On Sunday, Mrs Merkel said Mr Sarrazin's remarks were "completely unacceptable" and urged the Bundesbank to act.

The Social Democratic Party, of which Mr Sarrazin is a long-standing member, said it was taking action to expel Mr Sarrazin.

Mr Sarrazin has defended his comments and his writing, saying: "I can't imagine the chancellor has had the time to read my book."

continues here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-11131937

LaoPo

I don't know if many have heard of Thilo Sarrazin -member of the top of the German Central Bank- but his controversial book and thoughts are causing a HUGE storm about racism all over Europe.

I've been reading lots of comments in several German online newspapers and all I can say is that there is a lot of support for his views upon minority (also Islamic) groups in Germany.

Intellectual Germany is not happy with this man and Chancellor Mrs. Angela Merkel has called upon the GCB to throw him out.

This is only the beginning of a firestorm over Europe... :-(

LaoPo

Spiegel Online:

08/30/2010 11:46 AM

A 'Jewish Gene'

Immigration Provocateur in Germany Crosses the Line

Thilo Sarrazin, a member of the board at the German Central Bank, has been slammed for his allegedly racist comments about Jews.

Thilo Sarrazin, infamous for his controversial comments on Muslims and immigration, has unleashed a storm of criticism after positing the existence of a Jewish gene. Chancellor Merkel has had enough and many have called for him to be thrown off the board of the German Central Bank.

Angela Merkel is mad. In a Sunday evening interview on German public television, the German chancellor was visibly irate when asked about the recent comments on integration and immigration by Thilo Sarrazin, a member of the board at Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank.

"The statements from Mr. Sarrazin are completely unacceptable," she said. "They are exclusionary in a way that shows contempt for entire groups within our society. For me, the worst part is that by confronting the issue the way he does, he makes a discussion of that issue much more difficult."

Merkel was referring to a new book by Sarrazin, excerpts of which appeared in the German press last week. In the book, Sarrazin claims that Muslim immigrants are soon going to outnumber Germany's "autochthonous" (indigenous) population because of their higher birth rates. He also suggested that, because immigrants haven't proven to be as successful in school in Germany, the country is not only shrinking, but it is becoming less intelligent. He also said that Muslims were not interested in integration and hinted that they would prefer to work illegally off the books than to pay taxes.

"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Muslim, or that Turkish or Arabic will be spoken in large areas, that women will wear headscarves and the daily rhythm is set by the call of the muezzin," he writes in the book, which is to be officially released on Monday. "If I want to experience that, I can just take a vacation in the Orient."

'All Jews Share a Certain Gene'

Over the weekend, Sarrazin went even further. In an interview with Welt am Sonntag, Sarrazin waded into the fraught field of genetics, saying "all Jews share a certain gene, all Basques have certain genes that make them different from other people."

Continues here:

http://www.spiegel.d...,714567,00.html

LaoPo

PROFILE: Thilo Sarrazin - outspoken German central banker

By Jeff Black Aug 30, 2010, 9:21 GMT

BERLIN- Thilo Sarrazin, a member of Germany's famously restrained central bank, is alternately seen as a 'straight talker' who tackles tough subjects, or a loud-mouthed propagator of unsavoury views.

Born in 1945, the civil servant of Hugenot ancestry has been in public service since the 1970s, active in the finance ministry, the labour ministry, as well as the agency that oversaw the transfer of the assets of the former East Germany.

However it was from 2002, as finance minister of the Berlin state government, that his controversial views on the social development of Germany first became widely known.

Die Welt newspaper branded him in 2008 as 'the capital's agent provocateur.' His tirades against welfare-payment recipients and ex-communists earned him headlines and enemies. His comments were more surprising given that fact that he is a member of the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD).

In his time in the Berlin administration, Sarrazin also became involved in a number of scandals concerning the use of state funds. In 2004 he was accused of misappropriating funds for the construction of an entertainment venue, in a case that was later dropped.

Continues here:

http://www.monstersa...-central-banker

LaoPo

Thilo Sarrazin, a member of the board at the German Central Bank...

very soon he won't be a member anymore

Another exagerration where emotional sensitivity tries to silence peoples view, if he does not accept your view he is called a bigot and a racist but if you dont accept his view you are actually the same a bigot.

With regards to muslims in Germany turks in Holland Pakistanis,polish in england many many people have the same views as this guy the local idiginous people are starting to speak out as they see there home country be consumed by immigrants and what this guy is saying is no different to what many many people are thinking but cant actually come out and say it as they will then be attacked just like this guy is now he has spoken what many in germany think is the truth.

The same goes for Holland they had Pim fortein who was politically outspoken and was prmoting closing the doors to allowing any more immigrants into holland the dutch people who are very liberal were right behind him although they would not say it out loud but would do with there vote and thats why Pim fortein was leading the polls until he was executed for his views by an immigrant, it was so close to the elections his party fell apart but ti was clear people in Holland were sick of immigration and were prepared to vote for this guy.

The UK is the same people are thinking it a lady even spoke to Gordon Brown about the polish immigrants and he was overheard after saying horrible biggoted woman BUT the problem is she was saying what many people are thinking and he just insulted her by calling her a bigot when she had a VERY valid point.

Its too easy to call someone racist and sorry saying Jews have different genes while at the same time saying Basque people have different genes but the jewish comment was zoned in on is B.S Is it not true that Black people have different genetics to white people ??? does that make me a racist by saying that COME ON ITS TOTAL B.S and based totally on emotional sensitivity

http://raceandgenomi...c.org/Lewontin/ clearly stating genetically diffreneces in race

If he had said all white people should be exterminated OK thats a racial sluur what he said I dont think was Im not a geneticist but I am sure we all DONT HAVE THE SAME GENETIC makeup.

This is part of the problem

Bring on the haters

^^^^

I tried to read your post but in the end I'm not quite sure if I understood what your point is.

Anyway, the name is Pim Fortuyn and not Pim Fortein and he was NOT executed by an immigrant.

He was shot and killed by a 100% Dutch man, Volkert van der Graaf, a self-described animal rights activist and environmentalist extremist.

That occurred on May 6, 2002 and I remember it very well since I know the place where it happened.

It shocked the country and far beyond.

LaoPo

^^^^

I tried to read your post but in the end I'm not quite sure if I understood what your point is.

Anyway, the name is Pim Fortuyn and not Pim Fortein and he was NOT executed by an immigrant.

He was shot and killed by a 100% Dutch man, Volkert van der Graaf, a self-described animal rights activist and environmentalist extremist.

That occurred on May 6, 2002 and I remember it very well since I know the place where it happened.

It shocked the country and far beyond.

LaoPo

Well excuse me for my spelling mistake since I am not dutch and you are quite right about the Killer not being a immigrant although it was clear as to the reason he killed him I was in holland at the time since my son is dutch and I remember very clearly the support pim had with the dutch people.

But the point of my post is all this racist labeling if you even mentiuon the word jew or black is total BS and its all based on emotional sensitivity meaning if you dare to speak the truth GOD HELP YOU seems any mention of these word in any context are taken out of context and then used to label the person a racist its total BS

If I say Jew Blacks, Americans, English and Germans all have different genes GUESS WHAT the nutters will come out and say hes a racist for saying blacks and jews have different genes nothing about the rest of the nationalities I mentioned

Chip on the shoulder I call it

i think my point is pretty clear we live in a fked up world

To quote your own source:

First, the human species as a whole has immense genetic variation from individual to individual. Any two unrelated human beings differ by about 3 million distinct DNA variants.

The remaining variation, about 6% to 10% of the total human variation is between the classically defined geographical races that we think of in an everyday sense as identified by skin color, hair form, and nose shape. This imprecision in assigning the proportion of variation assigned to differences among population within ”races” as compared to variation among “races,” arises precisely because there is no objective way to assign the various human populations to clear-cut races.

Indeed “race” could stand for a family group defined by male inheritance, as in the description of the last male in a family line as “the last of his race.” This inconsistent usage arises from the fact that there is no clear criterion of how much difference between groups of genetically related individuals should correspond to the category “race.” If it had turned out that groups of related populations were clearly different in the great majority of their genes from other groups, then racial categories would be clear and unambiguous and they would have great predictive power for as yet unstudied characters. But that is not the way it has turned out, at least for the human species.

But as genetics developed and it became possible to characterize the genetic differences between individuals and populations it became apparent, that every population of every species in fact differs genetically to some degree from every other population. Thus, every population is a separate “geographic race” and it was realized that nothing was added by the racial category. The consequence of this realization was the abandonment of “race” as a biological category during the last quarter of the twentieth century, an abandonment that spread into anthropology and human biology. However, that abandonment was never complete in the case of the human species. There has been a constant pressure from social and political practice and the coincidence of racial, cultural and social class divisions reinforcing the social reality of race, to maintain “race” as a human classification. If it were admitted that the category of “race” is a purely social construct, however, it would have a weakened legitimacy. Thus, there have been repeated attempts to reassert the objective biological reality of human racial categories despite the evidence to the contrary.

and something more from another source:

Variation at the population level

The average proportion of nucleotide differences between a randomly chosen pair of humans (i.e., average nucleotide diversity, or pi) is consistently estimated to lie between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 1,500 (refs. 9,10). This proportion is low compared with those of many other species, from fruit flies to chimpanzees11, 12, reflecting the recent origin of our species from a small founding population13. The pi value for Homo sapiens can be put into perspective by considering that humans differ from chimpanzees at only 1 in 100 nucleotides, on average14, 15. Because there are approximately three billion nucleotide base pairs in the haploid human genome, each pair of humans differs, on average, by two to three million base pairs.

Regardless, it seems you feel the need to hijack yet another topic with something that seems to me, to be inflammatory trollish behavior designed, as you have already posted, to incite flames.

I suggest you rethink your position.

The first line from what you have quoted says they the genetics of humans is different

First, the human species as a whole has immense genetic variation from individual to individual. Any two unrelated human beings differ by about 3 million distinct DNA variants.

Am i not understanding that correct ??? is the author not saying that humans have IMMENSE GENETIC variation (An exact quote)

So what are you quoting me on ?? that one sentence confirms what the guy was saying that humans have diffrent genes

What am I not getting here SBK that you would post a reply like that

Not trolling Not inciting i am speaking my mind and understand I may be in the minority and not Politically correct and you may not like what i am saying and you may not beleive what I am saying but nevertheless i have a right to my opinion and if you dont like my opinion then YOU ACTUALLY have the power to silence me on here however that does not change the fact that in a free world I can have and am entitled to my opinion and my freedom of speech as you are and its what our boys are fighting and dying for overseas.

If i am misinterpreting the above sentence enlighten me

The UK is the same people are thinking it a lady even spoke to Gordon Brown about the polish immigrants and he was overheard after saying horrible biggoted woman BUT the problem is she was saying what many people are thinking and he just insulted her by calling her a bigot when she had a VERY valid point.

Bring on the haters

The UK is the same people are thinking it a lady even spoke to Gordon Brown about the polish immigrants and he was overheard after saying horrible biggoted woman BUT the problem is she was saying what many people are thinking and he just insulted her by calling her a bigot when she had a VERY valid point.

Bring on the haters

SBK what is the point of this post if not meant to inflame me and incite me

Absolutely useless post also hope TV has permission to use that copyrighted image

To point out the hypocrisy of what you have posted. I'm pretty sure that commenting strictly on what someone has posted is OK whether they are happy about it, or not.

"Registered users can download free images"

'German Wilders' sees Islam submerging his country

Published on : 31 August 2010 - 12:54pm

In Germany, he's being called the German Geert Wilders. He is Social Democratic Party (SPD) politician and bank director Thilo Sarrazin, and in a new book he argues that Muslim immigration is threatening German culture. Germany's response: uproar.

Thilo Sarrazin, member of the Executive Board of the Deutsche Bundesbank, released his new book Deutschland schafft sich ab (Germany Is Abolishing Itself) on Monday. In it, in addition to his anti-Islam message, he also put forward a controversial genetic theory.

Outside the hall where he appeared to talk about his book, hundreds of people gathered to demonstrate. Inside, it was crammed with journalists. Cups, plates and saucers crashed to the floor as photographers and cameramen clambered onto chairs and tables to get a good shot of him. Then Mr Sarrazin stood up to speak.

Downfall

Thilo Sarrazin is not a talented speaker. It's hard to stay focused while listening to him, even though what he has to say is as clear as day. Certainly not in a Germany which, thanks to the crimes of its past, works so hard to honour the rights of minorities.

The essence of Mr Sarrazin's message is this: Germany, the country and its culture, is being ruined by the large-scale immigration of the past decades.

"The German people and the German state have reached a turning point in history, one whose scale and character is not yet clear to everyone. After a history of a thousand years the German race is, in a quantitative sense, on the road to abolishing itself."

He bases his claims on demographic studies that show the native German population shrinking and the immigrant population growing. And immigrants, Mr Sarrazin is convinced, will never be part of German culture.

The biggest problem

In addition, he makes a distinction between different groups of immigrants. Muslims, he says, don't integrate and are therefore the source of the biggest problems.

"The responsibility for these problems lies not with ethnic descent but with those descended from the Islamic culture. With all immigrants except Muslims the problems disappear so that differences between them and Germans are impossible to pinpoint."

But Mr Sarrazin goes further in his book, where he writes not just about cultural differences but also about genetic differences. He believes that Jews share a common gene, as do Basques, that sets them apart from others.

The war

In his book, Mr Sarrazin presents himself as the German face of the anti-Islam movement in Europe. While he is not the first person in Germany to attack Islam, he is certainly the most notable politician to do it so openly. And his pronouncements about immigrants and Jews are a source of extreme discomfort to a country so painfully conscious of its Nazi past. Mr Sarrazin says you must never forget the war, but adds that you must not become a hostage to history in solving the problems of the here and now.

Distance from Wilders

So is Mr Sarrazin with his anti-Islamism a German Geert Wilders? In their statements about Islam they're definitely on each other's wavelength. But genetics is not a theme Mr Wilders touches on. And Mr Sarrazin is careful to distance himself from Mr Wilders.

"I deplore the developments in the Netherlands quite as much as the majority of sensible Dutch people do. It was the job of the major political parties in that country to tackle the problem on time, so that it never ended in such an election result. I find the trend towards right-wing nationalist parties extremely dangerous."

This is why Mr Sarrazin has no desire to form his own party. Instead he wants to remain in the Social Democratic Party so he can bring the problems he sees, and his solutions, to the public's attention. But his party now wants him out. And the Bundesbank has invited him for a discussion about his future there.

From: http://www.rnw.nl/en...ing-his-country

LaoPo

The first line from what you have quoted says they the genetics of humans is different

First, the human species as a whole has immense genetic variation from individual to individual. Any two unrelated human beings differ by about 3 million distinct DNA variants.

Am i not understanding that correct ??? is the author not saying that humans have IMMENSE GENETIC variation (An exact quote)

So what are you quoting me on ?? that one sentence confirms what the guy was saying that humans have diffrent genes

What am I not getting here SBK that you would post a reply like that

Not trolling Not inciting i am speaking my mind and understand I may be in the minority and not Politically correct and you may not like what i am saying and you may not beleive what I am saying but nevertheless i have a right to my opinion and if you dont like my opinion then YOU ACTUALLY have the power to silence me on here however that does not change the fact that in a free world I can have and am entitled to my opinion and my freedom of speech as you are and its what our boys are fighting and dying for overseas.

If i am misinterpreting the above sentence enlighten me

Actually the only requirement I have from you is that you follow forum rules. Please drop the hyperbolic off topic BS, it does not work on me. If you insist on posting inflammatory crap like "bring on the haters" you will find yourself suspended. My patience is worn extraordinarily thin.

Now, since you asked for an explanation as to how you are not understanding the science. please re-read this part. Math was never my strong suit, but I can grasp this sentence.

The average proportion of nucleotide differences between a randomly chosen pair of humans (i.e., average nucleotide diversity, or pi) is consistently estimated to lie between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 1,500 (refs. 9,10). This proportion is low compared with those of many other species, from fruit flies to chimpanzees11, 12, reflecting the recent origin of our species from a small founding population13.The pi value for Homo sapiens can be put into perspective by considering that humans differ from chimpanzees at only 1 in 100 nucleotides, on average14, 15. Because there are approximately three billion nucleotide base pairs in the haploid human genome, each pair of humans differs, on average, by two to three million base pairs.

This is .001% difference.

The Sarrazin Debate

Germany Is Becoming Islamophobic

A commentary by Erich Follath

Thilo Sarrazin's comments about Muslims have triggered outrage in Germany and abroad, but have met with willing listeners among the general public. His rhetoric is slowly bringing about change in Germany, transforming it from a tolerant society into one dominated by fear and Islamophobia.

The Pied Piper of Hamelin knew how to fight the plague. He knew catchy, seductive tunes and was successful against the scourge with his unconventional methods. But because society paid him no tribute and refused to pay him the wages he had been promised for his service, he decided to take a radical step and lure away the children of Hamelin. In doing so, he destroyed the very community he had once set out to save.

It is unclear when and why Dr. Thilo Sarrazin, 65, the child of a doctor and a Prussian landowner's daughter, who supposedly did a decent job during his time as finance minister for the city-state of Berlin and who had unusual ideas, became a seducer. Did he see himself as a future chancellor, and was he bitterly waiting in the wings to be nominated by his Social Democratic Party (SPD)? Would he have preferred to become the CEO of Deutsche Bank instead of "merely" a member of the executive board of Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank? Does he relish the role of agent provocateur and popular guest on German talk shows? And is he truly worried about the absurd concern that Germany is "doing away with itself" -- as the title of his new book claims -- by tolerating too many foreign influences in its society?

Opinions may differ among those who seek to interpret Sarrazin's behavior. The important thing is that he is someone who has gone from being a tough-talking, audacious politician and anarchic prankster (see quote gallery) to a racist anti-Muslim who makes up nonsense about the genetic basis of intelligence and the "German-Jewish origins of intelligence research."

Article continues here:

http://www.spiegel.d...,714643,00.html

LaoPo

From Spiegel Online - Germany:

Thilo Sarrazin's Urge to Provoke

A Jewish gene, foul-smelling civil servants and immigrants producing little girls in head scarves: German Bundesbank member Thilo Sarrazin has never been afraid to provoke.

SPIEGEL ONLINE has assembled some of his most outrageous statements:

1:

"Berlin is burdened by two things: the 1968 generation and West Berlin slovenliness."

On problems facing Berlin

2:

"The Turks are taking over Germany exactly as the Kosovars took over Kosovo: via a higher birth rate. I wouldn't mind if it were Jews from Eastern Europe with a 15 percent higher IQ than the German population."

On birthrates in Germany

3:

"A large number of Arabs and Turks in (Berlin) ... have no productive function other than in the fruit and vegetable trade."

"The lower the class, the higher the birth rates."

Sarrazins' other quotes an be read here, since it's too much work posting ALL 18 !

http://www.spiegel.d...ke-58751-4.html

LaoPo

The first line from what you have quoted says they the genetics of humans is different

First, the human species as a whole has immense genetic variation from individual to individual. Any two unrelated human beings differ by about 3 million distinct DNA variants.

Am i not understanding that correct ??? is the author not saying that humans have IMMENSE GENETIC variation (An exact quote)

So what are you quoting me on ?? that one sentence confirms what the guy was saying that humans have diffrent genes

What am I not getting here SBK that you would post a reply like that

Not trolling Not inciting i am speaking my mind and understand I may be in the minority and not Politically correct and you may not like what i am saying and you may not beleive what I am saying but nevertheless i have a right to my opinion and if you dont like my opinion then YOU ACTUALLY have the power to silence me on here however that does not change the fact that in a free world I can have and am entitled to my opinion and my freedom of speech as you are and its what our boys are fighting and dying for overseas.

If i am misinterpreting the above sentence enlighten me

Actually the only requirement I have from you is that you follow forum rules. Please drop the hyperbolic off topic BS, it does not work on me. If you insist on posting inflammatory crap like "bring on the haters" you will find yourself suspended. My patience is worn extraordinarily thin.

Now, since you asked for an explanation as to how you are not understanding the science. please re-read this part. Math was never my strong suit, but I can grasp this sentence.

The average proportion of nucleotide differences between a randomly chosen pair of humans (i.e., average nucleotide diversity, or pi) is consistently estimated to lie between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 1,500 (refs. 9,10). This proportion is low compared with those of many other species, from fruit flies to chimpanzees11, 12, reflecting the recent origin of our species from a small founding population13.The pi value for Homo sapiens can be put into perspective by considering that humans differ from chimpanzees at only 1 in 100 nucleotides, on average14, 15. Because there are approximately three billion nucleotide base pairs in the haploid human genome, each pair of humans differs, on average, by two to three million base pairs.

This is .001% difference.

0.01 or 100% in reality its still a difference and they are not the same.

Anyway my view will stay the same although i will try to refrain from saying such things as birng on the haters and hopefully the other posters will refrain from the same such things towards me and my views.

I think the SARRAZIN debate is not only a German debate, or a European debate but a WORLD debate.

In addition to my last post I read this quote (below) by Sarrazin and wondered what would happen in this discussion if the same sentence was published by someone else, in Thailand this time, and I therefore changed in the second quote a few words in the SARRAZIN quote:

Original quote by Sarrazin

"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Muslim, or that Turkish or Arabic will be spoken in large areas, that women will wear headscarves and the daily rhythm is set by the call of the muezzin. If I want to experience that, I can just take a vacation in the Orient."

On immigration in Germany

IN THAILAND:

"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Christian (or read: Muslim), or that English or Chinese will be spoken in large areas, that women will wear bikinis or burkas and the daily rhythm is set by the call of church bells. If I want to experience that, I can just take a vacation to Europe.

On immigration in Thailand

See...?

It's not so easy as we all think it is as I think the last "made-up quote" would cause a storm in Thailand and many Thai would agree of what's said in the "made-up quote".

It also shows that we live in an ever increasing in-tolerant world, due to the ever growing population and aggressiveness in religions, trying to push the believes of certain groups upon the others.

How on earth can we all survive on this planet if the population keeps on growing like it is now ?

1900: world population: 1.6 BILLION

1950: world population: 2.5 BILLION

2010: world population: 7.0 BILLION

2050: world population estimate: 9 BILLION people.

LaoPo

I have deleted an off-topic post and the replies to it.

I think the SARRAZIN debate is not only a German debate, or a European debate but a WORLD debate.

In addition to my last post I read this quote (below) by Sarrazin and wondered what would happen in this discussion if the same sentence was published by someone else, in Thailand this time, and I therefore changed in the second quote a few words in the SARRAZIN quote:

Original quote by Sarrazin

"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Muslim, or that Turkish or Arabic will be spoken in large areas, that women will wear headscarves and the daily rhythm is set by the call of the muezzin. If I want to experience that, I can just take a vacation in the Orient."

On immigration in Germany

IN THAILAND:

"I don't want the country of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be largely Christian (or read: Muslim), or that English or Chinese will be spoken in large areas, that women will wear bikinis or burkas and the daily rhythm is set by the call of church bells. If I want to experience that, I can just take a vacation to Europe.

On immigration in Thailand

See...?

It's not so easy as we all think it is as I think the last "made-up quote" would cause a storm in Thailand and many Thai would agree of what's said in the "made-up quote".

It also shows that we live in an ever increasing in-tolerant world, due to the ever growing population and aggressiveness in religions, trying to push the believes of certain groups upon the others.

How on earth can we all survive on this planet if the population keeps on growing like it is now ?

1900: world population: 1.6 BILLION

1950: world population: 2.5 BILLION

2010: world population: 7.0 BILLION

2050: world population estimate: 9 BILLION people.

LaoPo

I agree 100% on your above post but not just religion other stuff is pushed down our throats too of having to accept it or being ostracized or being called a bigot or other derogatory names everyone has the right to there own opinion in a free world not everyone has to accept a certain religions views or a certain persons lifestyle they have a right to not accept it just as that person has the right to practice there religion or lifestyle.

Unfortunately that is not the world we live in

As for your population figures I believe there will be a major incident that will stop that progression prior to your 2050 time line.

everyone has the right to there own opinion in a free world

Isn't that the late Sen. Robert Byrd (D), 2nd torch from the left?

In Germany they seem to be hyper-sensitive to the atrocities of WWII, in Japan they deny they exists and in Russia they couldn't care less.

In Germany they seem to be hyper-sensitive to the atrocities of WWII, in Japan they deny they exists and in Russia they couldn't care less.

Out of the three countries I prefer Germany and Russia didn't start WWII.

Japan does indeed deny all their atrocities they laid upon the people of Asia. They even NEVER told the children of Japan what happened, simply because the WWII story isn't in the Japanese history books.

Just Google Nanjing Massacre (also called Nanking Massacre) and you will know what I mean. If you take the time to read a little or look at the photos you will have a bad night coming up. What Japan did there is indescribable and horrible.

http://www.google.nl...iw=1426&bih=706

In Germany itself, WWII is no longer a point of discussion which doesn't mean that the people aren't ashamed, still, of what the Nazi Regime caused, not only to so many millions all over Europe but also to their own people. But, to call it hyper-sensitive as you called it is a little overdone. Sensitive...yes, but not hyper-sensitive, but maybe Herr Naam can answer here how he thinks about it, being an intelligent German

Although WWII ended 65 years ago many in Europe still have " sensitive feelings" towards Germany and the Germans but the latter isn't fair since the present generations (except a few elderly) can't be blamed of what happened in the '30's and '40's of the 20th century.

But, that it still hurts is a fact.

I know.

LaoPo

everyone has the right to there own opinion in a free world

YES UG even they have a right too there opiion, whether you agree with it or not.

You cant cherry pick who can and who can't have freedom of expression you as an American should well know that as your country was founded on those principles FIRST AMENDMENT Freedom of Expression and Freedom of Speech

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In case you forgot where you came from

We dont have to agree with the views of others but they still have a right to have them (except in UGs book by the looks of it)

I confess, I am bigoted against the KKK, Nazis, Charles Manson and Ted Bundy too.Sorry, but, I am all not a supporter of allowing hate speech.

Flames deleted and action taken. I do mean what I say. To those remaining, best to heed my post.

^^^^

I tried to read your post but in the end I'm not quite sure if I understood what your point is.

Anyway, the name is Pim Fortuyn and not Pim Fortein and he was NOT executed by an immigrant.

He was shot and killed by a 100% Dutch man, Volkert van der Graaf, a self-described animal rights activist and environmentalist extremist.

That occurred on May 6, 2002 and I remember it very well since I know the place where it happened.

It shocked the country and far beyond.

LaoPo

Well excuse me for my spelling mistake since I am not dutch and you are quite right about the Killer not being a immigrant although it was clear as to the reason he killed him I was in holland at the time since my son is dutch and I remember very clearly the support pim had with the dutch people.

But the point of my post is all this racist labeling if you even mentiuon the word jew or black is total BS and its all based on emotional sensitivity meaning if you dare to speak the truth GOD HELP YOU seems any mention of these word in any context are taken out of context and then used to label the person a racist its total BS

If I say Jew Blacks, Americans, English and Germans all have different genes GUESS WHAT the nutters will come out and say hes a racist for saying blacks and jews have different genes nothing about the rest of the nationalities I mentioned

Chip on the shoulder I call it

i think my point is pretty clear we live in a fked up world

He was not quoted as saying "all have different genes." He was quoted as saying "all Jews share a certain gene, all Basques have certain genes that make them different from other people."

I don't know anything about Mr Sarrazin. What is his medical background/education that qualifies him to make a statement regarding genetics?

I don't know anything about Mr Sarrazin. What is his medical background/education that qualifies him to make a statement regarding genetics?

Help yourself:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,714567,00.html A Jewish Gene

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thilo_Sarrazin Thilo Sarrazin - Wikipedia

http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2009/10/thilo-sarazzin-racist-hero.html Thilo Sarrazin - Racist Hero from German-American Opinion

LaoPo

In Germany they seem to be hyper-sensitive to the atrocities of WWII, in Japan they deny they exists and in Russia they couldn't care less.

In Germany itself, WWII is no longer a point of discussion which doesn't mean that the people aren't ashamed, still, of what the Nazi Regime caused, not only to so many millions all over Europe but also to their own people. But, to call it hyper-sensitive as you called it is a little overdone. Sensitive...yes, but not hyper-sensitive, but maybe Herr Naam can answer here how he thinks about it, being an intelligent German

A Swedish friend of mine told me that when KISS toured Germany they had to change the look of their name because the "SS" at the end looked too much like the infamous SS. I don't know what year he was talking about though.