Buying A Condo:Pros And Cons, Advice Appreciated

[RobL]

In a few years I will be eligible for a retirement visa and consider spending 6+ month/year in Thailand.

As such I have been contemplating with buying a condo near the sea. Currently Pattaya (the quieter regions like South Pattaya and Jomtien) is on my radar but I am looking into other options as well.

However, buying a property is a considerable investment and I am hesitant.

Some pro arguments are:

* not wasting rent towards someone else's property.

* possibility of actually selling later on with a profit.

* option of renting when away (realistic?).

* convenience of having own place (no landlord, freedom to renovate etc.) .

and con arguments:

* instability in Thailand (political/economical).

* renting is cheap and avoids the danger of being stuck if something goes bad (rowdy neighbours move-in).

* equity of property may actually decline over the years (for example, a noisy bar might pop across the street).

As such, would appreciate pearls of wisdom regarding this non-trivial decision.

Cheers,

Rob.

[Jingthing]

Well I bought six years ago in Jomtien. IF, and I mean IF I was able to sell I would be lucky to break even on the original price. Owning an illiquid asset ties you down if you aren't very wealthy. If the condo price is trivial to you, then I don't see the same issue. Another pro argument though is that its a buyer's market now, what with the global economic crisis and weakened western currencies stressing some people to get out of Dodge.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[PattayaParent]

One of the cons at the moment is the poor exchange rate, and maybe in the future the rate will be better but that makes it worse for selling if you want to convert your money out of Baht.

[Jingthing]

One of the cons at the moment is the poor exchange rate, and maybe in the future the rate will be better but that makes it worse for selling if you want to convert your money out of Baht.

True, but given the general rise of Asia, I don't see the why the baht would weaken much in the future, the opposite is the more likely long term trend.

[BB1950]

A definite con: The oversupply of condo's available, with more being built and being planned to be built.. As mentioned before, it's unlikely you will get a return on your initial investment for a long long time.

Now for the pro: At least what you would have paid for rent during the time you live in it, would be considered a return and as you mentioned you could do with it what you like. When I rented a condo, the landlord would not let me get a phone line installed. A requirement to get a phone, is to present the house book. Really sucked not having broadband. Also, the owner was Thai and did a very poor job with the maintenance upkeep. Thankfully I didn't live there long.

[PattayaParent]

If possible try to live in the unit, or at least ine the building, that you want to buy beforehand so you know the area, neighbours and quirks of the place.

[nycboy57]

Good topic and allot of good feedback as I bought six months ago in Bkk, and have lived in the condo three years i could say as

a retired person living here that I have some experience in the matter. There are many good things I have experienced in buying, and one

is getting what I want for instance, Cable and satellite in both rooms, so my lady can watch her shows and I can watch mine,

We wanted a reverse osmosis water filter, so we didn't have to lug those water bottles up all the time, and we wanted a Samsung keyless lock, so we could just use a remote control or combination or a little card.

We wanted tiled floors, and leather custom couch, big desk and computers in both rooms with bluetooth speakers. We wanted a garden running track and a pool with a jacuzzi and gym with steam and sauna for men and women in the building that had a spa in the building next to the pool. We wanted to be close to shopping, like right across the street and a dentist in the building. We wanted to be very close to BTs and MRT, and be close to hospital. We wanted to have high ceilings and a great view of the city and we wanted to pay a low maintenance and not pay rent anymore. We wanted good security guards and a better relationship with the building as an owner rather than a renter. We are happy to have purchased, on the other side of the coin, it is difficult to deal with owners that are not living here and are only out to make money and do not understand the importance of renting short time or long time. We now have new management Juristic and things are getting better, and I do hope when the next board meeting I can be on the committee and have a say in how the building is run. Overall I am happy with having a washer and dryer in the second bathroom, mirrored walls, curtains in bedroom that blackout the light. I can go on, but with the former owners we rented from it was not the same, they were difficult and when trying to get our deposit back it was horrible. Now we don't have to deal with that problem. Good luck on your decision, location, location, location was the thing I was always told and here it is important as anywhere else, as for the value I have been watching the prices during the worst of times in these last four years, and the prices have not gone down in Bkk, only up.

[trogers]

Keyword here is - retirement.

This is the period of our lives that we stop being a rolling stone. A period of stability and settling down in a place we can call home for the remaining phase of our lives.

To reduce the cons, like bad neighbors or building management, rent and live in a unit to see if that is the place for you. Once you have found the location you like, cons like property value being stagnant for many years, or return of investment taking a long time will be of minor consideration as your time horizon is for a few decades.

I bought my first condo in 1995, and now bought over the unit next door, extending my living space and providing room space for my aging parents who are in their 70s to retire here with me should they choose to do so.

Condo units that I bought as an investment were purchased with differing consideration, leaning towards location, ease of renting out, and rental yield.

Edited September 1, 2010 by trogers

[RobL]

Thanks for the helpful inputs.

One issue I'm concerned of is the viability of renting a condo when I'm away. At least in Pattaya there seems to be much more offer than demand with lots of condo buildings nearly empty. Any experiences with renting a condo?.

[trogers]

Thanks for the helpful inputs.

One issue I'm concerned of is the viability of renting a condo when I'm away. At least in Pattaya there seems to be much more offer than demand with lots of condo buildings nearly empty. Any experiences with renting a condo?.

Rental demand of condo units in vacation spots are seasonal. Should not be a problem provided you choose to be away during the peak season. My brother-in-law in East Hampton, NY owns a vacation house by the sea, and another on the mountains upstate. Rent out the beach house in summer and the one on the mountains in winter.

[yabaaaa]

1 more thing if you die what will happen to the condo? Unless you have a Thai partner any foreign (non Thai) heir cant have it unless they re buy it back and then remit the funds back out of the country

[powderpuff]

Unless you think you know all the rules - better rent.

I rent & my break ever was 14 years.

This way I can walk whenever I want.

Personally I would NEVER buy.

Edited September 2, 2010 by powderpuff

[Jingthing]

1 more thing if you die what will happen to the condo? Unless you have a Thai partner any foreign (non Thai) heir cant have it unless they re buy it back and then remit the funds back out of the country

I'm not sure what you're saying. You can leave a Thai condo to a foreigner in your Thai will. I actually think with the paperwork from your original money import to buy the condo plus the Thai will paperwork (perhaps with the help of a lawyer) that an heir probably COULD export the money again if they sold the condo. Buying it back? What are you talking about? Why would an heir buy a condo they already own?

[yabaaaa]

1 more thing if you die what will happen to the condo? Unless you have a Thai partner any foreign (non Thai) heir cant have it unless they re buy it back and then remit the funds back out of the country

I'm not sure what you're saying. You can leave a Thai condo to a foreigner in your Thai will. I actually think with the paperwork from your original money import to buy the condo plus the Thai will paperwork (perhaps with the help of a lawyer) that an heir probably COULD export the money again if they sold the condo. Buying it back? What are you talking about? Why would an heir buy a condo they already own?

Take a look at this Jing

Condo Inheritance (Foreigners) 2010-08-13 BKPost.pdf

Edited September 2, 2010 by yabaaaa

[trogers]

1 more thing if you die what will happen to the condo? Unless you have a Thai partner any foreign (non Thai) heir cant have it unless they re buy it back and then remit the funds back out of the country

I'm not sure what you're saying. You can leave a Thai condo to a foreigner in your Thai will. I actually think with the paperwork from your original money import to buy the condo plus the Thai will paperwork (perhaps with the help of a lawyer) that an heir probably COULD export the money again if they sold the condo. Buying it back? What are you talking about? Why would an heir buy a condo they already own?

Take a look at this Jing

The only scenario that would create future problem is a foreigner buying the property under a Thai name, or 51% Thai-owned company, and then pass it on to another foreigner in his will. I do not see how a condo unit when purchased under the 49% rule and with foreign funds remitted into Thailand cannot be passed on to another foreigner.

[yabaaaa]

1 more thing if you die what will happen to the condo? Unless you have a Thai partner any foreign (non Thai) heir cant have it unless they re buy it back and then remit the funds back out of the country

I'm not sure what you're saying. You can leave a Thai condo to a foreigner in your Thai will. I actually think with the paperwork from your original money import to buy the condo plus the Thai will paperwork (perhaps with the help of a lawyer) that an heir probably COULD export the money again if they sold the condo. Buying it back? What are you talking about? Why would an heir buy a condo they already own?

Take a look at this Jing

The only scenario that would create future problem is a foreigner buying the property under a Thai name, or 51% Thai-owned company, and then pass it on to another foreigner in his will. I do not see how a condo unit when purchased under the 49% rule and with foreign funds remitted into Thailand cannot be passed on to another foreigner.

A Farang friend of mine who owns over 50 condos (value approx 170 million) and has been consulting with lawyers over this for sometime , wanted to leave his condos to one of his children who is Not a Thai national has been told he will have to get the child to buy the condos back off him thru his estate after his death and then after this they can remit the money back to their own country.

This guy is no small fry and uses good lawyers but I would be interested to know from Sunbelt if they think this is the case?

Im passing on what he has told me and it came as a BIG shock to him.

His hope was his child could continue renting out the units as he has.

I know this seems crazy but this guy is not some la de da nutcase he is well educated and extremely bright, he is now in the process of selling off his units over the next few years.

4 have already been sold in the last 6 months after this was discovered.

I would be interested to know the opinions of any lawyers on this?

Yes the child can inherit but they have to re buy all the units before remitting the money back to their home country and as you can see 170 million is no small amount.

[PattayaParent]

^ 're-buy' the condo from who?

Edit: after reading that article it's completely confusing as it appears to contradict itself.

Edited September 3, 2010 by PattayaParent

[yabaaaa]

^ 're-buy' the condo from who?

Edit: after reading that article it's completely confusing as it appears to contradict itself.

You have to rebuy the condos from the dead persons estate so the child has to re- remit the funds to get the condos IF they want to rent them out, failing that they have to be sold within 12 months.

The hope was the child could keep the Fathers business of renting them out.

The only way a non thai can buy condos is to remit funds from abroad if they want to then take the money back out in the future

Please note I am not a lawyer but this is what I am trying to understand and although it sounds crazy i would appreciate input from some other lawyers.

I think the aim of the Father was at some point the child would take over and then at some point the child would sell the condos and take the money back to their home country.

Edited September 3, 2010 by yabaaaa

[yabaaaa]

^ 're-buy' the condo from who?

Edit: after reading that article it's completely confusing as it appears to contradict itself.

You have to rebuy the condos from the dead persons estate so the child has to re- remit the funds to get the condos IF they want to rent them out, failing that they have to be sold within 12 months.

The hope was the child could keep the Fathers business of renting them out.

The only way a non thai can buy condos is to remit funds from abroad.

Please note I am not a lawyer but this is what I am trying to understand and although it sounds crazy i would appreciate input from some other lawyers.

I think the aim of the Father was at some point the child would take over and then at some point the child would sell the condos and take the money back to their home country.

This section.

ps sorry OP i was going to open a new topic on this but it may be relative to you later.

Edited September 3, 2010 by yabaaaa

[trogers]

he will have to get the child to buy the condos back off him thru his estate after his death and then after this they can remit the money back to their own country.

First, the will of a decease can only be effected through the courts. And with this court order, the Land dept will make the change in ownership titles, with transfer and tax charges payable.

Do you mean that the foriegn child cannot get the court order? Or do you mean the Land dept will not recognise the court order and effect the title change?

[yabaaaa]

he will have to get the child to buy the condos back off him thru his estate after his death and then after this they can remit the money back to their own country.

First, the will of a decease can only be effected through the courts. And with this court order, the Land dept will make the change in ownership titles, with transfer and tax charges payable.

Do you mean that the foriegn child cannot get the court order? Or do you mean the Land dept will not recognise the court order and effect the title change?

I dont really know, the friends plan was to will all 50 condos to his child and for the child to continue running the business but from what I gather it seems to do this the child will have to buy by remitting funds from outside of Thailand all the condos from the Fathers estate then they can re patriate the money after this is done or they will have to sell them within 1 2 months.

Yes this can be done but they will have to find the current price of 170 million.

This is how I understand what he ha sbeen told.

Its not a case of he cant will them to the child. Its about the child then continuing to rent them out long term

[ignis]

The question is Rob do you live in a City now ? do you live in a Condo now ? Do you have a Thai Partner ?

Myself Retired could never live in a Condo or a City, For the price of a condo you could buy a detached or semi detached house, myself bought a 3 bedroom house in a Village early 2004, OK if is in my Thai Partners name...

Also in the Village is a German that bought about the same time in his Thai wife's name, they only come here 2x per year for 3 weeks, in the garden is an Annex with a older Thai couple she is the house keeper, the husband drives a school mini bus a few hours a day, they live there rent free but pay all the bills.

Everywhere the further you go from the main road the cheap the houses [unlike the UK]

[PattayaParent]

^ 're-buy' the condo from who?

Edit: after reading that article it's completely confusing as it appears to contradict itself.

You have to rebuy the condos from the dead persons estate so the child has to re- remit the funds to get the condos IF they want to rent them out, failing that they have to be sold within 12 months.

The hope was the child could keep the Fathers business of renting them out.

The only way a non thai can buy condos is to remit funds from abroad if they want to then take the money back out in the future

Please note I am not a lawyer but this is what I am trying to understand and although it sounds crazy i would appreciate input from some other lawyers.

I think the aim of the Father was at some point the child would take over and then at some point the child would sell the condos and take the money back to their home country.

So who is the dead persons estate?

[yabaaaa]

^ 're-buy' the condo from who?

Edit: after reading that article it's completely confusing as it appears to contradict itself.

You have to rebuy the condos from the dead persons estate so the child has to re- remit the funds to get the condos IF they want to rent them out, failing that they have to be sold within 12 months.

The hope was the child could keep the Fathers business of renting them out.

The only way a non thai can buy condos is to remit funds from abroad if they want to then take the money back out in the future

Please note I am not a lawyer but this is what I am trying to understand and although it sounds crazy i would appreciate input from some other lawyers.

I think the aim of the Father was at some point the child would take over and then at some point the child would sell the condos and take the money back to their home country.

So who is the dead persons estate?

Ha ha well you know what I mean, the Fathers estate inherited by the child, but the point is if this is correct it has quite a big impact on my friends will.

I haven't looked into this as it wont affect me but obviously with 50 odd condos its important to him and this is the advice he has been given by a reputable law company.

Is it correct? I dont know but he always dot's his "i's" and crosses his "t's"

Sunbelt any comments??????????

[givenall]

If possible try to live in the unit, or at least ine the building, that you want to buy beforehand so you know the area, neighbours and quirks of the place.

Looking at the properties in Pattaya, I have found that they are very expensive and the prices are already gone up to include appreciation for the next 10 years.

I think if you really want you have to find some who hat to sell and sell fast. Normally in Thailand the prices go up and buying is very easy, but selling is very very difficult, especially for Frangs

[PattayaParent]

It certainly sounds an obtuse way to go about handling an inheritence issue.

I'd have thought the only concern would be for the Land Office to get their taxes for transferring the condo from one owner to another.

[Jingthing]

Thanks to yabaaaa (the member) for bringing up the issue of inheritance to a foreigner. This is a big issue and I think probably deserves a new thread to shake out the truth.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[RobL]

Yabaaaa: thanks for your inputs but I don't follow you. Here's a step-by-step the process:

1. foreigner brings money into Thailand and buys a condo.

2. foreigner own the condo, rents it out.

3. foreigner will the condo to a kin or other another non-thai person (the beneficiary).

4. foreigner passes away, the beneficiary inherits the condo.

Now what? although there is a legal heir the condo is somehow "devoured" by a governmental bureau and the heir needs to buy it back from them? If so, who decides at what price to re-sell the condo to the heir?.

[huawei]

Yabaaaa: thanks for your inputs but I don't follow you. Here's a step-by-step the process:

1. foreigner brings money into Thailand and buys a condo.

2. foreigner own the condo, rents it out.

3. foreigner will the condo to a kin or other another non-thai person (the beneficiary).

4. foreigner passes away, the beneficiary inherits the condo.

Now what? although there is a legal heir the condo is somehow "devoured" by a governmental bureau and the heir needs to buy it back from them? If so, who decides at what price to re-sell the condo to the heir?.

3. The condo will pass to the beneficiary, and this can be from farang to farang via probate and it can be registered at the land office. The condo can be sold. The issue is not one of inheritance, the issue is one of remittance of proceeds overseas once sold.

[RobL]

Huawei: if there's no issue in a farang selling a condo and getting the money into a thai bank account, what prevents the beneficiary farang from later on transferring the funds overseas? (can be done in smaller chunks over several months).