Boy, Aged 9, Killed In Bangkok School Gang Shooting

[beammeup]

Perhaps sports competition is the answer. Rugby, football or American football would neutralize those raging hormones and vent the built up energy.

[hhiser]

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable.  There is some merit to those ideas.

How about in most civilized countries in the world.

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children until the come of legal age.

Not sure where you came up with poorer countries, but you are way off the mark.

The more time I spend in Thailand, the more the rose-colored glasses come off, revealing the ugly underbelly of a failed state.

Yes look at Thai TV! Do not ever show any type of smoking  or a drink   but punch your wife teeth out "MAI BPEN RAI"

Actually, if you watch their soap operas. If you do punch her teeth out she will fall in Love with you. Also if you are shoot or get into a serious accident you will miraculously gain full health in only a few episodes.  Furthermore I have seen how some(?) Thai's raise their children. If their child does something wrong they will try to distract their child, but will not discipline their child nor instruct it about what they did wrong. Thus we have a country full of ignorant children who think it is ok to walk in front of moving cars, because they are sure the cars can stop for them!

[tutone]

Sounds like my home country. The good ole U.S.A.

[crusty]

It's a tough issue. Boys of that age have a lot of hormones going on. The only gang type activity that I was involved with was when me and my buddies were 7 yrs old - maybe we get the ya yas out earlier in the States. One of my gang (of that time long ago) went on to be a US Senator, another became head of a Wall St. Investment group - go figure.

I think crappy videos are a factor. Granted, there's no one 'silver bullet' that will make boys mature, but being fed on a steady diet of violent videos from the age they could sit up by themselves, sure doesn't do any good for a kid's psyche. Slightly less polluting for the mind, are videos which have any number of other awful messages. Go in to any video store, and see what the most showcased selections are. Are there any true science or nature items (like Nat'l Geo or Animal Planet)?. Absolutely none. Are there any which teach redeeming character traits such as tolerance, wisdom, fairness, environmental husbandry, etc? Zip, Zero.

Another related factor (pun intended) is the influence of elders. Whether it be top politicians or businesspeople (like Thaksin, Newin) or their parents, or other elders, ...one key messages is: Lying is ok if it makes you richer and more popular. Most other messages from elders are fraught with hypocrisy. For example, "don't do drugs" ...when nearly every adult they see drinks like a drunken fish.

Purely the Government to blame, by not funding sports activities. 15 years ago Singapore went on a massive spending program on youth sports programs. with free lessons in everything from tennis and sailing to the arts and they don't have this problem as they actually have some educated M.P.'s unlike the morons Thailand throws up !

[GeorgeO]

My perception of this phenomenon is they are "wanna be" gangsters. They see American gangsters in the movies and think it is cool. They try to flash gang-sign that they do not fully understand. They walk the gangster swagger, etc.

I've only seen it a few times in Thailand...in clumps. If no other youngster is around to appreciate it or fear it, what they do is meaningless. It's like a game of , "Let's all pretend we're gangsters! It'll be cool!" The culture and the way of thinking here does not support the mentality. There was a gang of "kids" around ChiangMai about 5 or 6 years ago that went around on motorcycles killing people with Samurai style swords. I believe the police basically "exterminated" them, which is surely what should have been done in America when gangs first sprouted up there. Mexico is no longer run by the government, the drug gangs have the government and the law abiding population on the run, with lots of gangsters, guns, and the blackest of black hearts. Let's hope that here, unlike the west, the police will have the wherewithal and "patriotism" (if you will) to nip this phenomenon in the bud. The "powers that were", in the west, were forced to stand back and watch while their country went down the tubes, because of certain interpretations of laws and social correctness. Here I believe the police have more latitude, by tradition and law. The current "state of emergency" in Bangkok, giving the police even more latitude, is an excellent opportunity to "Nip this in the bud, or Rue the Day!"

Longtooth,

This is a most incisive and accurate response, which gets right to the heart of the problem; unfortunately, however, you place some reliance on the police to deal with the problem, but with their level of ineptitude and 'couldn't care less' attitude, they are clearly not going to be the ones to solve it.

The state needs to make parents responsible for the actions of their children; that will have an immediate effect on what they are allowed to do, and what they will do.

[Richb2004v2]

The schools, parents and police can't be bothered to prevent their young children riding four to a scooter towards the flow of traffic and getting killed daily, so I doubt they can figure out what to do to prevent them shooting each other. 'Mai pen rai' it will be.

[AlanL1275]

Get rid of all uniforms and it will be more difficult for gangs, and hot heads, to recognize each others schools, and rivals.

Edited September 2, 2010 by AlanL1275

[MILT]

Probably not the same students. BUT, yesterday everyone was whining and crying with shouts of "hang em high" at the teacher that was caning some high school boys. Perhaps if there was more of that caning going on there would be less of this killing going on. This is not the first young child to be killed by high school boys.

Ever heard the maxim: Violence breeds Violence?

People, Caning is just one example of resorting to violence (no matter what the intention or reasoning) to solve our problems. Violence has no place in a learning environment. I am deeply sorry for the loss of a young life because more than likely some if not all members of this gang were caned in school in front of the class. There are scores of methods and practices to teach respect and to solve our problems in a way that is up lifting and beneficial to society and humanity in whole.

[rafish]

I warned yesterday of not caning in schools, how on earth are kids supposed to learn disciplin if there is no detterent.

Perhaps by setting a good example yourself!

[hungryhippo]

Perhaps if there was more of that caning going on there would be less of this killing going on. This is not the first young child to be killed by high school boys.

That's the dumbest thing i've ever read. Going along with your reasoning perhaps if you oldies weren't canned as kids you would be running around thailand molesting children.

[dighambara]

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

I believe the point was that firm control of youngsters at an early age leads to self control as the grow older.

It is not poorer countries that hold parents accountable, it is stupid governments. The very idea that one person should be punished for what someone else did is completely stupid.

One of the major astonishments (for westerners)within Thai society is the apparent complete lack of manners in the children. In public, children are quite rude, running rampant yelling and screaming and never do you see anyone say or do anything.

My children knew that any misbehavior received, first, a calm warning, later, a stern warning, lastly, a swat, or swats - directly related to the intensity of their misbehavior - public or not.

As a result, my young children are well mannered and my adult son is quite successful...

[rafish]

My perception of this phenomenon is they are "wanna be" gangsters. They see American gangsters in the movies and think it is cool. They try to flash gang-sign that they do not fully understand. They walk the gangster swagger, etc.

I've only seen it a few times in Thailand...in clumps. If no other youngster is around to appreciate it or fear it, what they do is meaningless. It's like a game of , "Let's all pretend we're gangsters! It'll be cool!" The culture and the way of thinking here does not support the mentality. There was a gang of "kids" around ChiangMai about 5 or 6 years ago that went around on motorcycles killing people with Samurai style swords. I believe the police basically "exterminated" them, which is surely what should have been done in America when gangs first sprouted up there. Mexico is no longer run by the government, the drug gangs have the government and the law abiding population on the run, with lots of gangsters, guns, and the blackest of black hearts. Let's hope that here, unlike the west, the police will have the wherewithal and "patriotism" (if you will) to nip this phenomenon in the bud. The "powers that were", in the west, were forced to stand back and watch while their country went down the tubes, because of certain interpretations of laws and social correctness. Here I believe the police have more latitude, by tradition and law. The current "state of emergency" in Bangkok, giving the police even more latitude, is an excellent opportunity to "Nip this in the bud, or Rue the Day!"

Longtooth,

This is a most incisive and accurate response, which gets right to the heart of the problem; unfortunately, however, you place some reliance on the police to deal with the problem, but with their level of ineptitude and 'couldn't care less' attitude, they are clearly not going to be the ones to solve it.

The state needs to make parents responsible for the actions of their children; that will have an immediate effect on what they are allowed to do, and what they will do.

"the state needs to make parents responsible..." Yea like government laws can enforce good safe environments for children to grow up in. You must subscribe to the POUS Obama's form of socialist rule? government responsible for every aspect of your life. Education is the answer, not canning or gangs.

[rafish]

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

I believe the point was that firm control of youngsters at an early age leads to self control as the grow older.

It is not poorer countries that hold parents accountable, it is stupid governments. The very idea that one person should be punished for what someone else did is completely stupid.

One of the major astonishments (for westerners)within Thai society is the apparent complete lack of manners in the children. In public, children are quite rude, running rampant yelling and screaming and never do you see anyone say or do anything.

My children knew that any misbehavior received, first, a calm warning, later, a stern warning, lastly, a swat, or swats - directly related to the intensity of their misbehavior - public or not.

As a result, my young children are well mannered and my adult son is quite successful...

Must make you feel very "manly," swatting as you say, "children?"

[newermonkey]

Probably not the same students. BUT, yesterday everyone was whining and crying with shouts of "hang em high" at the teacher that was caning some high school boys. Perhaps if there was more of that caning going on there would be less of this killing going on. This is not the first young child to be killed by high school boys.

I total agree with "ThaiRich" .

The mother was quoted as saying : "My son will not be the last victim to die in similar circumstances. There is no benefit from fighting each other. I want them to stop fighting," Ungsu Khamwong, the boy's mother, said on Thailand's PBS television channel.

I feel so sorry for the boys family, this must be devastating.

The mother said "I want them to stop fighting" but unfortunately its gone way past asking them to stop, This will only encourage the gangs! Also even if they arrest most of the culprits the parents will have the opportunity to pay for their release.

My view is these "gangs" should be made an example of by the police, I think the police should detain all the suspects and some colabouratore and supporters, extract the information and send the guilty ones down for a very long time, This should also be made into a media circus.

Caning should be brought back and applied under supervision of the authorities as it is in Singapore (I am not advocating rouge manic teachers taking the law into their own hands) , you might be horrified but it will save innocent lives.

BTW Gangs in Pattaya are free to do whatever they like and the situation is totally out of control and in part protected by drug dealers, real gangsters and unfortunately the money generated is greedily welcomed by our friends in brown.

Edited September 2, 2010 by newermonkey

[Cynical]

About ten years ago there was a a lot of inter-techno college aggression. When everything had subsided, the investigation concluded that the teachers had encouraged the students to act violently towards students of other colleges.

Caning wasn't the answer then, at a time when most teachers caned students.

It's the society we live in as as the poor mother said (let us pray her and her family) ... it won't be the last time.

[MILT]

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

How about in most civilized countries in the world.

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children until the come of legal age.

Not sure where you came up with poorer countries, but you are way off the mark.

The more time I spend in Thailand, the more the rose-colored glasses come off, revealing the ugly underbelly of a failed state.

Yes look at Thai TV! Do not ever show any type of smoking or a drink but punch your wife teeth out "MAI BPEN RAI"

Actually, if you watch their soap operas. If you do punch her teeth out she will fall in Love with you. Also if you are shoot or get into a serious accident you will miraculously gain full health in only a few episodes. Furthermore I have seen how some(?) Thai's raise their children. If their child does something wrong they will try to distract their child, but will not discipline their child nor instruct it about what they did wrong. Thus we have a country full of ignorant children who think it is ok to walk in front of moving cars, because they are sure the cars can stop for them!

Perhaps you all should get out more. LOL In most cases it is the peers who gain the most influence not the parents. Can you please" tell where the civilized countries are"? Because I yet to find any civilized place on this planet except for perhaps where no humans are gathering. People all over the world are doing horrific things to other people on all levels of life. " There is no Saint without a past and no Sinner without a future"

[dighambara]

You can analyse everything you like about what's wrong with this society, but you'll always end up tying yourself up in knots. Though it's not peculiar to this particular society, if you want to probe the psychology behind the problems that have cause such violence as discussed in this forum, then start with the concept of what I call the "perverse adoration of the Thai male". Move on from there and see where you go with your research.

Wit

I presume you mean the complete lack of honor and decency in most Thai Males..??

Neighbors who stupidly have beer parties from 6PM until 6AM the next morning..??

Men who change women as often as they can, or Fathers who never care for their children, while their beer, their women and their friends come first - clothing for the kids isn't a consideration...

I have heard that Thai men ask "why do foreigners have 'used' women as 'wives'" - for a number of reasons;

1. 'Used' is a strange concept, because most men are 'used' long before marriage, so is a matter of perspective.

It has been said that a widow and widower marrying is like having four in the bed - same for divorced couples.

2. Women are people first and deserve equal consideration and understanding.

3. Western men tend to think of family first and fun second (the opposite of Thai men), so the more mature the woman (& man) the more succseeful the family (better education, more money, happier)..

[seri thai]

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

elitism, tribalism, patriotism, nationalism, factionalism, politicization, disenfranchisement, testosterone, social & educational values.

=Tragic Results

[newermonkey]

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

elitism, tribalism, patriotism, nationalism, factionalism, politicization, disenfranchisement, testosterone, social & educational values.

=Tragic Results

I would ad to that list: Dumb soap operas, A genuine rejection and disbelieving in Buddhism and its values.

[granuaile]

Don't see a lot constructive being posted. This really isn't either.

But the incident happened very close to me. I ride these same buses and others. Sometimes they are packed with school kids of various ages. I've never seen any unruly behavior, I've never seen any violence in this neighborhood, and though it undoubtedly happens, this incident shocks me and I feel so for the child and his parents as well as for the schoolgirl shot in Samut Prakarn.

I don't know the causes or the answers but I am sure that caning students and bashing this wonderful country are not solutions.

[webfact]

UPDATE

16-year-old student arrest over bus shooting

Police have arrested a student of the Bang Kapi Technology College for having fired at a bus, killing a nine-year-old student.

Min Buri police chief Pol Col Rattasak Raksalam said the 16-year-old second-year student of the college admitted that he fired at a group of students from Min Buri Technical College on a No-113 bus Wednesday morning.

Wat Bumpenneu School third-grader Jatuporn Pholphaka sustained gunshot wounds to his face and neck from the shotgun allegedly fired by the arrested student, Rattasak said. Jatuporn was pronounced dead at Kasemrat Hospital.

-- The Nation 2010-09-02

[djayz]

Probably not the same students. BUT, yesterday everyone was whining and crying with shouts of "hang em high" at the teacher that was caning some high school boys. Perhaps if there was more of that caning going on there would be less of this killing going on. This is not the first young child to be killed by high school boys.

You reckon more beatings is the solution? How about parents that actually pay attention to their kids?

I don't think he was advocating beatings... but some good "old fashioned" discipline. It wouldn't be a bad idea if you ask me (here AND back in the west!).

[djayz]

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

I believe the point was that firm control of youngsters at an early age leads to self control as the grow older.

It is not poorer countries that hold parents accountable, it is stupid governments. The very idea that one person should be punished for what someone else did is completely stupid.

One of the major astonishments (for westerners)within Thai society is the apparent complete lack of manners in the children. In public, children are quite rude, running rampant yelling and screaming and never do you see anyone say or do anything.

My children knew that any misbehavior received, first, a calm warning, later, a stern warning, lastly, a swat, or swats - directly related to the intensity of their misbehavior - public or not.

As a result, my young children are well mannered and my adult son is quite successful...

Must make you feel very "manly," swatting as you say, "children?"

What an ignorant comment... did you write it just to get another "point" here on Thai Visa? If it helps to teach the children the difference between right and wrong/polite and rude then so be it. That's exactly how I was raised and if I had any kids myself that's exactly how I'd raise/discipline them aswell.

[Acharn]

My perception of this phenomenon is they are "wanna be" gangsters. They see American gangsters in the movies and think it is cool. They try to flash gang-sign that they do not fully understand. They walk the gangster swagger, etc.

Oh, for goodness sake. Do you think Thailand has no gang tradition of its own? Do you not speak Thai? Do you recognize the words, "nak leng?" Back in 1920 the Army had to send troops down to Chon Buri to recover the city from "bandit gangs." Then there's the Chinese tradition of "secret societies," or "triads." Why are foreigners always so anxious to blame unpleasant aspects of Thailand's culture on America?

I've only seen it a few times in Thailand...in clumps. If no other youngster is around to appreciate it or fear it, what they do is meaningless. It's like a game of , "Let's all pretend we're gangsters! It'll be cool!" The culture and the way of thinking here does not support the mentality. There was a gang of "kids" around ChiangMai about 5 or 6 years ago that went around on motorcycles killing people with Samurai style swords. I believe the police basically "exterminated" them, which is surely what should have been done in America when gangs first sprouted up there. Mexico is no longer run by the government, the drug gangs have the government and the law abiding population on the run, with lots of gangsters, guns, and the blackest of black hearts. Let's hope that here, unlike the west, the police will have the wherewithal and "patriotism" (if you will) to nip this phenomenon in the bud. The "powers that were", in the west, were forced to stand back and watch while their country went down the tubes, because of certain interpretations of laws and social correctness. Here I believe the police have more latitude, by tradition and law. The current "state of emergency" in Bangkok, giving the police even more latitude, is an excellent opportunity to "Nip this in the bud, or Rue the Day!"

I think adolescent and young men have a tendency to violence and will form groups to show off for each other forever. In this case there's also a culture of competition leading to violent confrontations between students at rival vocational schools. It's too bad, but it's there.

[contemplating]

Some people here have suggested sports as a way of suppressing the violence, but all kids are not athletic, and so that leaves them outside of the sports circle, with lots of time to compete fighting for their teams. Getting rid of the school uniforms is also not the answer. In California, there are very few schools that have uniforms, but the gangs are thriving there. One gang has blue shirts another has red shirts. When the school forbids the blue and red shirts, then they put a blue or red rag in their pocket. Us old people dont notice the gang colours, but every kid in the school knows exactly which gang everyone belongs to. Its the same as in Thailand, only 10 times worse; drive by shootings, and also the school bus shootings, or bus stop shootings. Most think they are cowboys, and if they make a run to Mexico, they wont be caught, or hide out in the next town. Its not as bad as the Mexico gangs, but those gangs and killings are about money and power.

Road rage in Thailand? Yes, lots of it, but then in the US also. Maybe for different reasons, but the outcome is the same. Never used to be like this in the fifties and sixties, so what happened, and what has changed? Now it happens every day. I have even warned my European friends, when you go to California and get stuck in traffic, dont stare at the people around you, because someone just might get pissed and shoot you.

I wonder if the Thai shooter, and all his friends were taken to see the body of the boy they killed, would that change anything? Maybe not, but then maybe it would have an effect. Im not sure if the Thai soaps have anything to do with the violence here, since maybe the boys dont watch it much, but it does show the mentality about violence here, its accepted from young to old. As someone pointed out, if the police cannot do anything about 4 on a bike, without helmets, can they do anything? Too much suffering in this country, and for nothing!

[Wozzit]

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

How about in most civilized countries in the world.

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children until the come of legal age.

Not sure where you came up with poorer countries, but you are way off the mark.

I find it strange that most of the posts on this thread are about schools and society. The fact is that parents should be held firmly accountable for their children. If they choose to have children, it is their responsibility to bring their children up and instil in them values which will stand them in good stead throughout their lives. Thailand is rather like Japan, in my view. Younger children are cosseted and doted upon, people give up their seats on public transport to them, the little darlings can do absolutely no wrong. If they are constantly to be found in Starbucks after school, as many of them from wealthier families are, and are getting fat, as many are, parents seem to regard this as just a phase. But once a child is no longer a child and moves into his/her teens, it seems parents virtually abandon them. In Japan, after all the freedom and can-do-no-wrong of their early years, the military-style uniforms and hard discipline that the boys go through in schools must do some damage to the psyche in many cases. In Thailand, it is the opposite. Too much freedom, parents abandoning their responsibilities.

Of course this is a generalisation. But I do believe it is the root cause of many of the problems with Thai youngsters.

[mssabai]

This is not a new problem in Thailand. Most of my Thai male friends, many from middle-upper class families, have talked about the violence they experienced at school. Most of them experienced at the absolute minimum, a knife fight. This is going back at least 15 years. Violence in Thai schools is nothing new. The lack of gun control here though brings a whole other element into the mix, generally if you are going to stab someone, no-one else will get hurt, but stray bullets are another matter.

And to those who say caning is the answer. Have you been a teacher in a Thai school??? Have you seen how little effect corporal punishment has? Especially on the 'bad' kids and older kids. If you are brought up in an environment where you feel like no-one loves you, you lash out against society, if you are getting beaten at school, this feeling of self depreciation is only going to grow. Violence is the easy answer that rarely solves the problem. You have to actually use your brain to get to the source of the problem, rather than your fist. Is there no murders in America because of the death penalty? No theft in Arab states because of the threat of corporal punishment? Does it work???

At the end of the day, these are children we are talking about. It's tragic, for the boy who was killed, and also for the other boys, who felt like using guns would be the only way they could get any self worth in this society. I feel for all of them.

[Buchholz]

UPDATE

16-year-old student arrest over bus shooting

Police have arrested a student of the Bang Kapi Technology College for having fired at a bus, killing a nine-year-old student.

apparently there's been a second arrest

Police Arrest Vocational Students for Shooting of 9-Yr-Old

Police have arrested two Bangkapi Technical school students for the shooting of a nine-year-old student on a public bus yesterday.

The two students were targeting students from a rival school but their bullet hit the boy, who was an innocent bystander.

-- Tan Network 2010-09-02

[snowflake]

We had some M3 students joining a gang a few weeks back, they started bullying other people around, so what did we do? Not the "Normal Caning", we had them come to the office and see some "real gang boys" that we hired. We told them that they were in school to beat them up and because they had started a gang, they would no longer be protected by us "teachers", needless to say that the students were scared shitless and promised to stop their wrong doing if we helped them... (sure we did since we do like them)...

They have now been nice for several weeks, nothing bad has come from it once they understood that gang fighting is not the best way to go...

Not sure this would work in Bangkok, but one could always try, take the students to the prison and show them what life that awaits them if they continue down the bad path...

RIP to the child and bless the family. Let us hope it will be the last life lost... (HOPE)

[JetsetBkk]

Channel 7 just showed a police interview of the killer. My g/f was looking suitably traumatised as she told me what was said.

I said "It's because of all these crap Thai soaps on Channel 3 and Channel 7. They are garbage!"

Then the news finished and Channel 7 showed an advertisement for an upcoming soap. Yes, the guy was pointing a gun and about to shoot someone.