CMU Fails To Provide Visa Support Documents

[thaiguy55]

My apologies. I thought Dr. Matthew Kay was another former employee.

[pbert]

I received a reply from Matthew on Monday as below. Must be some confusion about him leaving the company?

I hope the course at FEU is as good as the reviews used to be at CMU. I'll be applying through this website soon "http://www.tefl-feu.com/" And expect to receive supporting documents due to the reply and explanation from Matthew. Has anyone already handed over their hard earned on this website?

The inquiry letter mentioned is the one already posted in this thread.

*** From Matthew***

I have included our inquiry email for 1 Year Thai Language students which explains the situation. All the courses will remain the same, with the same curriculum and teachers; the 1 Year Thai Program, however, is no longer offered by CMU and is instead now being offered by Far Eastern University (Chiang Mai).

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me directly.

All the best,

Matt

*********************

[thaiguy55]

Dr Kay was contracted by the language institute to start up and run a TEFL course. After running a very successful program he then helped CMULI to develop a 1 Year Thai program amongst others. All this was done while under the supervision of the old CMULI director and with the support of the president of the University. These programs were ran very well and gained alot of popularity and i am sure if you ask most of the Thai language students they will rave about how much they had enjoyed studying on these courses. Everything was going well until the old director retired and a new director took over CMULI. The new director without any notice refused to sign Visas and announced that no more of the programs Dr Kay had set up were allowed to run after September and that CMULI would not be liable for refunds even though they had taken the majority of the enrolled students money. So from the sounds of this CMULI is essentially stealing money and leaving students high and dry without Visa's. Also to add another twist. The new director looks to be starting up programs that mimic alot of Dr Kays work.

That's pretty ridiculous. After treating foreign students the way he has this month, does the new director actually believe he will be able to attract foreigners to a new program?? Then again, it does seem in line with everything I've heard he's done so far.

[thaiguy55]

pbert,

i confused dr. kay with another employee who quit earlier this month.

on monday, everybody thought the deal with feu was set, and the visas would be issued with no problem. afaik, dr. kay and his staff we're only aware of the potential problem with the visas last night and tried everything they could do fix it early today. they have been very sympathetic to the students and are trying their best to recover some of the lost money.

[RKO10]

Last night I heard that the FEU program is not going to happen because the director of CMULI will not sign some document that allows the students to get new visas with FEU. I expect that the program will be disbanded at the end of this month. I don't know what will happen to my fees or how I will get another visa. I will be meeting with Matt, the head of IUS, today. I think that I may try to meet with the Dean of CMU or proceed with legal action. The CMULI promised us a one-year visa and 1 year of language instruction. This is really a simple case of not honoring a contract.

For everyone who is still in his or her own country and who is thinking of joining the program, DO NOT DO IT!

[harrry]

If this is the case and the arabgement with FEU does not work out it may be time for people to lodge a payment dispute with the credit card company. THis may at least force some action from CMU.

[Thaigift]

i just got back from CMU literally 5 minutes ago. my visa expired on sep. 5th. i gave my passport to the LI on the 8th for them to take it to immigration and get it stamped. everyone said not to worry as everything would be taken care of. overstay would be taken care of, everything would be fine. i went in there 30 minutes ago to pick up my passport and looked at the stamp. no new stamp. the immigration would not stamp the passport and would not give me an extension.

the program was going to be turned over to the far eastern university but now they will not take us in. one of the reasons why i signed up for this class was obviously to learn thai but i also got sick and tired of leaving the country every 3 months. CMU will not give us a visa and neither will far eastern. so basically everyone who is at CMU is up you know which creek with out a paddle.

i have no clue what to do now. im on 17 days overstay. i have been here for the last 2 years on tourist visas. i have a question: do you think i will have problems getting a tourist visa now since i have been here for so long on tourist visas?

thanks

Edited September 22, 2010 by Thaigift

[lopburi3]

You will likely be able to obtain another tourist visa but I would do so before your overstay gets much longer - as it is now you will owe about 9,000 baht on exit.

Currently 2 entry tourist visa is available to most people from Vientiane Embassy.

[thaiguy55]

If anyone knows a good lawyer in Chiang Mai please PM me

[Loaded]

If anyone knows a good lawyer in Chiang Mai please PM me

Can I ask who you paid?

Was it CMU or CMULI or IUS or Dr Matt?

Edited September 22, 2010 by Loaded

[shepsel]

I think the most logical thing to do now is to get a list of the people who have registered at the Language Institute at CMU for Thai classes, and for the people who are registered and paid for the Cultural Exchange Program is to list their names, email addresses, phone numbers, so we can ask a lawyer jointly of what to do. It would be far less expensive for those affected to sue jointly than individually if there is a case. I am not sure if it would be considered a class action against the university and their affiliates, but jointly we could ask a lawyer.

Khun Sumalee is a very respectable Thai lawyer, and she is in Santitam, but I don't know for sure if she will deal with this type of law. If not, she would advise of who to go to.

[damian7000]

What is your evidence they donot want farang students at the school, are you just shooting from the lip.

sounds like you're the one 'shooting from the lip'. did you read the post? you must of not been here long enough to even begin to understand how we're tolerated at best by most thai and less than dirt to many.

[Austeyr]

How many Lawyers do you think would take on one of the biggest and most powerful universities in Thailand on behalf on foreigners?

[Loaded]

How many Lawyers do you think would take on one of the biggest and most powerful universities in Thailand on behalf on foreigners?

If you are paying, 100% will. Are you suggesting CMU will order a hit against anyone who sues them in the civil court? LoLs.

My recommendation for a lawyer:

Ajarn Sanyalux Panwattanalikit - LL.B. (Thammasat), LL.M. (Thammasat), Ph.D. (Thammasat) -30 Soi Chumpee Sirimangkalachan Rd. Tombol Suthep Amphur Muang Chaing Mai 50200 (053) 2160101/216012 018173150/019989222 email: //removed as per forum rules//

[Austeyr]

How many Lawyers do you think would take on one of the biggest and most powerful universities in Thailand on behalf on foreigners?

If you are paying, 100% will. Are you suggesting CMU will order a hit against anyone who sues them in the civil court? LoLs.

I am not talking about people ordering hits out on anyone. For one it goes alot deeper than money, some of the people who run the university have alot of power and pull in places that farang could ever imagine. That combined with the fact Thai courts very rarely take the side of farang espeically if it means tarnishing one of the most well known university in Thailand's name. Going to court which could take months and winning is a whole different story.

[Loaded]

How many Lawyers do you think would take on one of the biggest and most powerful universities in Thailand on behalf on foreigners?

If you are paying, 100% will. Are you suggesting CMU will order a hit against anyone who sues them in the civil court? LoLs.

I am not talking about people ordering hits out on anyone. For one it goes alot deeper than money, some of the people who run the university have alot of power and pull in places that farang could ever imagine. That combined with the fact Thai courts very rarely take the side of farang espeically if it means tarnishing one of the most well known university in Thailand's name. Going to court which could take months and winning is a whole different story.

The first consultation with Ajarn Sanyalux is normally free plus it's not clear yet whether it's CMU that should be sued or IUS/Dr Matt.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Loaded

[rob101]

I am not sure why you would waste your time suing Dr. Matt - the guy would just go home wouldn't he? Anyway, from what I heard Dr. Matt was fighting (and I mean really going hammer and tongs) at the CMU director today - in front of all the Thai language students - yelling at the LICMU director to give back the money to the students - was anyone else there?

Edited September 22, 2010 by rob101

[Austeyr]

How many Lawyers do you think would take on one of the biggest and most powerful universities in Thailand on behalf on foreigners?

If you are paying, 100% will. Are you suggesting CMU will order a hit against anyone who sues them in the civil court? LoLs.

I am not talking about people ordering hits out on anyone. For one it goes alot deeper than money, some of the people who run the university have alot of power and pull in places that farang could ever imagine. That combined with the fact Thai courts very rarely take the side of farang espeically if it means tarnishing one of the most well known university in Thailand's name. Going to court which could take months and winning is a whole different story.

The first consultation with Ajarn Sanyalux is normally free plus it's not clear yet whether it's CMU that should be sued or IUS/Dr Matt.

The people not refunding the money or issuing visa's as promised is the language institute at CMU not Dr Kay. The students met with Dr Kay and the Director of CMU this afternoon. Dr Kay was the one going in to bat for the students in attempts to get the students what is due to them. If you were to contract someone to help promote and run your business, then after receiving payment from 100's of clients you changed your mind and decided you wouldnt offer your services anymore. Would you be liable to pay back the money to your customers? Our would you keep the money yourself and force the person who you had signed a contract with to pay back the money themselves out of their own pocket?

[Loaded]

I really do not think CMU will be issuing any kind of refund or visa concession if the director of the university has been shouted at in public. They probably wouldn't anyway as 'refund' is not an idea Thais seem to understand.

[TheWalkingMan]

Sounds like CMU is following the "Ferengi Rules of Acquisition" Number one rule: Once you have their money ... never give it back.

TheWalkingMan

[Austeyr]

I really do not think CMU will be issuing any kind of refund or visa concession if the director of the university has been shouted at in public. They probably wouldn't anyway as 'refund' is not an idea Thais seem to understand.

Yes you are right, we should wai him and ask him nicely for our money back. And when he says no we should wai him again and apologize for causing him problems.

[rob101]

From what I heard - it all started okay - but when the LICMU director said point-blank that he was not giving the money back to the students - that's when Dr. Matt when to town on him - I do tend to agree with you Austeyr - I mean there is only so much sucking arse you can tolerate!

Edited September 22, 2010 by rob101

[Loaded]

I really do not think CMU will be issuing any kind of refund or visa concession if the director of the university has been shouted at in public. They probably wouldn't anyway as 'refund' is not an idea Thais seem to understand.

Yes you are right, we should wai him and ask him nicely for our money back. And when he says no we should wai him again and apologize for causing him problems.

Thais understand this.

[harrry]

If Matthew was shouting he must have been very very angry. Matthew is a person who I have really respected and knows how to interact with Thais better than most. It is sad CMU or a section of it has done this. This will filter back to overseas Unis as many of the students are ex university students in their own countries and may affect CMUs ability to have exchanges. I wish Matt well and hope he can get things going with the new university. He deserves respect CMU is another issue.

[thaiboy999]

The Thai director, Rien, of CMU LI is able to act so brashly probably because he has the implicit support of his boss, the president of CMU, a Mr. Pongsak Angkasith, according to the CMU website: http://www.cmu.ac.th/about_eng.php?menu=50

For whatever reason, so far he seems to be able to stay comfortably hidden in the background while we the students go through all these anxiety, turmoil and uncertainty from day to day. Could those of us who are more eloquent in speech or experienced in conflict resolution perhaps contact the CMU president directly and demand some answers? Working through Rien, who is also a pawn himself, is not going to get us anywhere.

Thank you for whatever effort you may be able to put in to help all of us who are left to hang out and dry. It's OK if most Thais really do not like us farangs deep inside (and maybe they have good reasons to do so), but we are only asking to be treated fairly here - nothing more, nothing less.

[RogerL]

I have been following this thread since it started. I am retired and living in Chiang Mai. I have a "retirement visa" and like some other retirees have wanted to be able to "volunteer" and legally give some of our time, knowledge and skills back to the Thai community where we live. What appeared to be the best avenue to do so was to enroll in the CMU Cultural Exchange Program (CEP). This decision was based upon the apparent inability of the United States Embassy and the British Embassy to gain any leeeway from the Thai government to allow retirees to give their time to the Thai community without having a work permit. At a presentation where the prior US Consul General was the guest speaker, the host made the statement that enrolling in this program was probably the best answer for retirees to be able to "volunteer" in Thailand - the Consul General did not disagree with this statement.

I have enjoyed the time I have "legally?" spent interfacing with the segment of the Thai community I have been engaged with. I would like to be able to continue to do so. I find it very concerning the disruptions and stress which have been created by CMU's apparent decision to withdraw their support from the the Language Institutes programs of which CEP is one.

Based on this, I have decided not to enroll in any other CMU programs - I had seriously considered enrolling in their TEFL program. I am evaluating what course of action to pursue related to the money paid to "legally" volunteer my time within the Thai community. The payment was via credit card and I will explore the posibility of contesting payment but believe the time window to do so may have closed.

I did a Google search on "Chiang Mai University foreign university collaboration agreements". The top search result URL contained "inter.oop.cmu" which is a PDF document. If you go to page 27 of this PDF, you will find a listing by country of the universities and colleges which CMU has collaboration agreements with. Whichever country you are a citizen of, you might consider voicing your concerns to those institutions listed for your home country. I found the school where I received my masters degrees listed and I will be voicing my concerns to them.

[RKO10]

I was at the CMU LI today from 11 to 2 and talked with Matt. The CMU LI director was not present. When I left, Matt was still there, so maybe this altercation happened after I left. I don't really know who to believe in this situation . All I know for sure is that students are not getting their visas extended. I've heard at least 5 different reasons for this from various sources. If anyone meets with the CMU LI director, please post what he says.

[Rumpole]

What is your evidence they donot want farang students at the school, are you just shooting from the lip.

sounds like you're the one 'shooting from the lip'. did you read the post? you must of not been here long enough to even begin to understand how we're tolerated at best by most thai and less than dirt to many.

Indeed. From reading the events described in this thread, the message is once again very clear. "We do not want you here, farang. Just give us your money and **** off."

[thaiguy55]

I did a Google search on "Chiang Mai University foreign university collaboration agreements". The top search result URL contained "inter.oop.cmu" which is a PDF document. If you go to page 27 of this PDF, you will find a listing by country of the universities and colleges which CMU has collaboration agreements with. Whichever country you are a citizen of, you might consider voicing your concerns to those institutions listed for your home country. I found the school where I received my masters degrees listed and I will be voicing my concerns to them.

Good idea Roger. I will be doing the same.

[rob101]

I have heard from my friend that LICMU is pretty close to cracking - i.e. begin to issue visas and/or refund monies - the pressure has been pretty intense both on the LICMU director (Professor Rien) and CMU's president to do the right thing - many students have been going to see both. There are a few things that you can do if you are affected LICMU's refusal to process students visas for paid for programs - 1) tell you embassy - many countries have trade and educations agreements with Thailand i.e. both countries agree to supply visas to bone fide students - if Thailand is going to refuse visas to, say, Australian students in Thailand, why should Australia issue visas to Thai students, 2) send a copy of your email to your embassy to the CMU president's office and to LICMU's director's office, 2) CMU has associations with over 140 universites around the world - let those universities know what's going on: i.e. money has been taken from students for courses and visas refused, 3) call the editor of the education section of your newspaper at home - this is a warning to other students deciding whether to study in Thailand or not, get a group of affected students together and camp out at the CMU president's office ------ the most important thing is: don't take this lying down - farangs have been considered disposal and treated like second-class citizens for too long (by a certain canary coloured section of Thai society).