CMU Fails To Provide Visa Support Documents

[electracm]

Has any TV member with more than 10 posts who has been a member since before this episode begun received any sort of refund yet?

.

Not I!

I know quite a few students who received refunds and I know for a fact that Dr. Matt paid airfares, overstays, and other monies from his own pocket - also I saw him at LICMU (until they kicked him out of the place, cancelled his work permit, and tried to have him arrested - all because he was fighting to get refunds out of LICMU for students!!!) giving out money to students everyday!

Warning .....if anyone has received a letter in Thai from the LI director or his staff, get it translated before you take it anywhere,

[CMX]

In just two days, hundreds of students will be ejected from Thailand, their one year visas canceled.

They arrived, having made contracts with CMU for a year's educational program through the Language Institute. CMU abruptly canceled the program (although the director of the language institute has assumed all blame and fault), and in spite of the contracts, those people are - best we know - to leave within two days. Or they have left.

SIC

[0zz1]

I think this topic should be under Chiang Mai category rather than here....

Edited September 28, 2010 by Maestro
Deleted off-topic comment.

[kawtot]

Warning .....if anyone has received a letter in Thai from the LI director or his staff, get it translated before you take it anywhere,

The letter from CMULI director says (heavily paraphrased)

"

Dear Director of Immigration

<student name & other details> enrolled in the CMU <program name> via IUS from <program start date>.

CMU will no longer contract services from IUS after 30 Sep 2553 so please consider cancelling this student's ED visa from that date.

<signature block>

"

It's not pleasant, but its pretty straightforward... no hidden nasties.

[thaiguy55]

I've gotta say, as much as I dislike the director and feel bad for the students who he tricked, that letter is brilliant and pretty amusing.

[harrry]

I've gotta say, as much as I dislike the director and feel bad for the students who he tricked, that letter is brilliant and pretty amusing.

But it can also be used as evidence that the student was enrolled at CMU and that CMU broke the contract.

[Mario2008]

That letter means that persons who are on an extension of stay based on their study will have to leave Thailand on Sept. 30th. One can get an extension of stay of 7 days for 1,900 baht. (don't forget to bring a pass photo)

Persons with an Ed-visa who are still on their initial 90 day entry they got at the border are not affected by this. Their permission to stay remains valid.

[Beanster1]

Has any TV member with more than 10 posts who has been a member since before this episode begun received any sort of refund yet?

.

Not I!

I know quite a few students who received refunds and I know for a fact that Dr. Matt paid airfares, overstays, and other monies from his own pocket - also I saw him at LICMU (until they kicked him out of the place, cancelled his work permit, and tried to have him arrested - all because he was fighting to get refunds out of LICMU for students!!!) giving out money to students everyday!

I'm not sure how CMU can cancel his work permit if he worked for a company named IUS?

Loaded you sure like to go head hunting even though you have nothing invested in this thread at all. Dr Kay was employed by the university to help the Language institute make much needed income as it was losing money. IUS was not a company, it was a department set up to manage international students. Dr Kay was contracted as an individual to work for LI to help them out and agreed to help setup successful programs without a salary but a profit share as the language institute didnt have the funding to set up such programs themselves. This is why all of the staff working for the programs received work permits through the university. IUS was not setup as a company until all programs were ejected out of the university and DR Kay thought he might be able to save the programs by setting up elsewhere.

[RKO10]

Here is the official statement from LICMU about the situation.

[richard10365]

For those students who are serious about studying Thai language, Payap University does have a Thai language program that does offer a visa. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will do what I can to assist you with studying at Payap.

[rob101]

Be very very careful - the word is that LICMU has issued a completely false letter (all attendence records were kept by LICMU and show an average attendence rate of 80% by all students enrolled in LICMU's 1 Year Thai Language Program) claiming that the reason that LICMU had to cancel the programs is because students were not going to class - LICMU is now trying very hard to place all the blame on students - in some cases they have even threatened students with ARREST!!! The real cause for the cancellation of the classes - and this is common knowledge amongst ALL the staff at LICMU is that the incoming director did not want foreign students there anymore - don't let them put the blame on students! The new director on a whim decided that the fastest way to get rid of the farangs was just to cancel their visas - boy! was he wrong!!

BTW - all the students are well-aware of how popular and well attended the classes were - would anyone who was in any of the classes care to back me up on that?

Edited September 28, 2010 by rob101

[Loaded]

Here is the official statement from LICMU about the situation.

Wow!

[Austeyr]

Here is the official statement from LICMU about the situation.

Wow!

Wow! A biased letter from the Director himself who refused to work through the situation to help students get refunds..

[hagler]

Here is the official statement from LICMU about the situation.

hmmmmmm. As always if one waits a while both sides of the story eventually start to come out.

The truth is out there. Somewhere.

[harveyBKK]

just sent the US Consul General in Chiang Mai nice little letter expressing my contempt and disgust with the actions of CMU. Don't know if it will help, but officailly asserted my rights as a human being. Wont hold my breath.

[brycat]

That letter means that persons who are on an extension of stay based on their study will have to leave Thailand on Sept. 30th. One can get an extension of stay of 7 days for 1,900 baht. (don't forget to bring a pass photo)

Persons with an Ed-visa who are still on their initial 90 day entry they got at the border are not affected by this. Their permission to stay remains valid.

Hi Mario,

I'm one of the lucky ones that just enrolled in the course that started this month. I will be on my initial 90 ED-visa until November 31st. Are you sure my visa will still be valid? I don't want to do another visa run, but I really don't want to pay 15,000 baht for a month overstay. Thanks.

Brycat

[rob101]

You might ask yourself this question: if what the LICMU director is saying in his letter is true - that LICMU had no idea what IUS was doing!:

1. Why did the president of CMU sign ALL certificates until only a few months ago?
2. Why is IUS in possession of CMU board meeting minutes which completely and utterly contradict everything said in the LICMU director's letter - including a motion to approve 1 year Thai classes to be administered by IUS?
3. Why is IUS in possession receipts that show very clearly that millions!!! of baht were paid directly to LICMU?
4. Why did the president's office continue to sign visa letters for years and years - while LICMU collect hundreds of thousands of baht from IUS?
5. Why is IUS in possession of a contract signed by the vice president of CMU that CLEARLY shows that they knew EXACTLY what classes where being taught?
6. Why is IUS in possession of attendence records for all course that show average students attendence was over 80%?

The story that LICMU is trying to sell is that they knew nothing about what IUS was doing AT THEIR OWN INSTITUTE!! Even though there are reams and reams of evidence that show THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!

If this is the truth - then LICMU is either very very incompetent or lying.

WOW!!!

WOW - indeed!!!

Edited September 28, 2010 by rob101

[harveyBKK]

too many acronyms....what's the conspiracy? are we angry at thai people or farang people? like i said before, knew 1.5 months ago they weren't signing new visas which means something was up then. But I still don't really have clarity on anything really, just what I read here.

You might ask yourself this question: if what the LICMU director is saying in his letter is true - that LICMU had no idea what IUS was doing!:

1. Why did the president of CMU sign ALL certificates until only a few months ago?
2. Why is IUS in possession of CMU board meeting minutes which completely and utterly contradict everything said in the LICMU director's letter - including a motion to approve 1 year Thai classes to be administered by IUS?
3. Why is IUS in possession receipts that show very clearly that millions!!! of baht were paid directly to LICMU?
4. Why did the president's office continue to sign visa letters for years and years - while LICMU collect hundreds of thousands of baht from IUS?
5. Why is IUS in possession of a contract signed by the vice president of CMU that CLEARLY shows that they knew EXACTLY what classes where being taught?
6. Why is IUS in possession of attendence records for all course that show average students attendence was over 80%?

The story that LICMU is trying to sell is that they knew nothing about what IUS was doing AT THEIR OWN INSTITUTE!! Even though there are reams and reams of evidence that show THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!

If this is the truth - then LICMU is either very very incompetent or lying.

WOW!!!

WOW - indeed!!!

[MagnumForce]

I've just read this whole thread from start to finish and it makes me sick. If this is true, then I will have no hesitation in saying that the people behind this are nothing short of scam artists and scum. I feel very sorry for those who face the prospect of visa cancellations on Thursday and no refund.

Surely Thaivisa could use their connections to the Nation to publicise this in the national press and maybe the shame of losing face for the CMU director and his cohorts, in what is essentially a racially motivated rip-off, might lead to some sort of compensation for the victims.

Just a thought and best wishes to those in the difficult position.

[heybruce]

For those students who are serious about studying Thai language, Payap University does have a Thai language program that does offer a visa. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will do what I can to assist you with studying at Payap.

Students who have to leave the country in two days may have trouble making the appropriate arrangements in the time available.

[richard10365]

For those students who are serious about studying Thai language, Payap University does have a Thai language program that does offer a visa. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will do what I can to assist you with studying at Payap.

Students who have to leave the country in two days may have trouble making the appropriate arrangements in the time available.

They better hurry and contact me then.

[Mario2008]

That letter means that persons who are on an extension of stay based on their study will have to leave Thailand on Sept. 30th. One can get an extension of stay of 7 days for 1,900 baht. (don't forget to bring a pass photo)

Persons with an Ed-visa who are still on their initial 90 day entry they got at the border are not affected by this. Their permission to stay remains valid.

Hi Mario,

I'm one of the lucky ones that just enrolled in the course that started this month. I will be on my initial 90 ED-visa until November 31st. Are you sure my visa will still be valid? I don't want to do another visa run, but I really don't want to pay 15,000 baht for a month overstay. Thanks.

Brycat

Yes, I'm sure. On your initial 90 day it doesn't matter if you study or not as your permission to stay is not tied to your study. Only once you get an extension of stay means stop studying that you have to leave the country.

You can also just find another study and get extension of stay through that study.

[MacWalen]

Walen here.

I am sad to hear that CMU has treated students this way. It is bad for the whole business. It is a long thread but basically CMU were audited by the Ministry of Education and were found not good enough to provide student visa support so their paperwork is not recognized by the immigration office. Walen was audited about the same time but as things are run strictly according to the exact government guidelines we had no problems at all. Those who have not visited our school in Chiangmai yet and live there please do come to see for yourself. We did not always get a fair coverage on thaivisa.com by some who do not like us so much however we strive to provide the highest quality of service and certainly provide the most reliable ED visa support for our students.

Till date we had no problems at any of of the Walen schools. One reason is that we indeed teach Thai and not just pretend we do but really hope to make money on ED visa support. This is our 10th year of doing business in Thailand and each year we are becoming more and more popular so we must be doing something right.

Walen School - Great method and reliable ED visa support

www.thaiwalen.com

[thaiboy999]

For what it's worth, may I also suggest we write to the "Permanent Secretary for Education", Mrs. Charuaypon Torranin (attached bio and contact info from Ministry of Education website) and the Minister of Education himself, Dr. Wichit Srisa-an, to voice our frustration and grievances. It's fairly clear that reasoning with CMU President Pongsak Angkasith or his LI puppy Rien would not get us anywhere.

just sent the US Consul General in Chiang Mai nice little letter expressing my contempt and disgust with the actions of CMU. Don't know if it will help, but officailly asserted my rights as a human being. Wont hold my breath.

charuayponeng.pdf

Edited September 28, 2010 by Mario2008
Libelous comment deleted

[happyrobert]

I am/was a student at the one year Thai Language course, until two hours ago

I moved at great expense from Koh Chang for the sole purpose of attending the Thai course at CMU. I did this for two main reasons: 1) they taught reading and writing also, from the outset, 2) it was a university, not some private school that might not be there next month. I paid the course fee of 30,000 IN ADVANCE, leased a house for one year, bought a motorbike and had a 100% attendance record for the past 6 weeks. I felt if I were living full time in Thailand, it would be disrespectful not to learn their language. They apparently don't appreciate this fact.

The facts are this: the Thais in charge of all this at CMU and the Thai director at the language institute hate farangs. The Thai students know this, too. Furthermore, the farang "owners" at IUS (International University Services) were simply too sucessful, taking away a lot of business from local Thai owned language schools. Thais don't appreciate that too much. The IUS course is excellent and the instructors are very qualified.

Consider this: all of this started just days - yes, days - after enrollemnt and payment of the new term, with 60% going to the University. Then, out of nowhere, no visas anymore...not wait until next term, but ex - post - facto - stop - signing - those - farang - visas - and - keep - their - money - get - off - our - campus - or - we'll - arrest - you. I had to leave the country. Upon return one week later, CMU had "changed their mind", no problem now. Then tonight we are told go home, get lost, you have two days left on your visas. If you come to our office, we'll call the police.

Then, someone who lacked the testicles and professionalism to sign the letter that was issued on CMU stationary, tore into IUS (the farang owners of the school) about how dishonest they are - also attacking the character of Dr. Matt Kay. The letter is just about the most libelous piece of BS I've ever seen. Virtually every statement is either misleading or an ouright lie. It's insulting to my inteligence.No great wonder the Thai writer "neglected" to sign it. IUS has many programs of different types throughout Thailand. The letter, posted on the internet, was sure to "advise" everyone not to enroll in any courses anywhere operated by IUS. An obvious effort to financially cripple IUS into collapse. Pathetic.

So, CMU took my money and not only refuses ANY refund, but threatens to arrest anyone who comes into the offices at CMU, regardless of how polite, calm and patient the student is. This has affected 300 students, do the math!

As for Dr. Matt Kay, I called him this evening on his cell phone. He answered immediately and stated that he would take out loans if necessary to refund the student's tuition, even the 60% stolen by CMU, by the end of October.

The level of professional and emotional maturity displayed by the director at the Language Institute at CMU, and the President of CMU is pathetically lacking. They would not be qualified to manage a KFC in Bangkok.

They are an embarrasment to decent Thai people everywhere. Websites are even tonight being built to let the world know.

[jackr]

Be very very careful - the word is that LICMU has issued a completely false letter (all attendence records were kept by LICMU and show an average attendence rate of 80% by all students enrolled in LICMU's 1 Year Thai Language Program) claiming that the reason that LICMU had to cancel the programs is because students were not going to class - LICMU is now trying very hard to place all the blame on students - in some cases they have even threatened students with ARREST!!! The real cause for the cancellation of the classes - and this is common knowledge amongst ALL the staff at LICMU is that the incoming director did not want foreign students there anymore - don't let them put the blame on students! The new director on a whim decided that the fastest way to get rid of the farangs was just to cancel their visas - boy! was he wrong!!

BTW - all the students are well-aware of how popular and well attended the classes were - would anyone who was in any of the classes care to back me up on that?

What a shambles. This type of thing only happens in a banana republic. If true, new director should be sacked, publicly disgraced, and be made to personally reimburse shafted students and apologise.

[femi fan]

Walen here.

I'm sure you do a good job, but this is probably not quite the best time to be coming across as being smug, even if you're not intending to appear this way.

And for the 300 students, how do you expect them to second guess that such an old institution as CMU, with all the authority it is invested in by the thai government (being the biggest university in the north of the country, the oldest, and being a government public one) might have problems on the auditing front?

It does seem pretty clear that a VIP has gotten angry, and is now punishing anybody in his firing line. It's a very sorry story that so many people in life can be so inconvenienced in time, money, and goodwill by the actions of effectively one person.

You might do well to simply offer your services as a way out for those people stranded by the actions of a man who lost his face somewhere.

[happyrobert]

Walen here.

I am sad to hear that CMU has treated students this way. It is bad for the whole business. It is a long thread but basically CMU were audited by the Ministry of Education and were found not good enough to provide student visa support so their paperwork is not recognized by the immigration office. Walen was audited about the same time but as things are run strictly according to the exact government guidelines we had no problems at all. Those who have not visited our school in Chiangmai yet and live there please do come to see for yourself. We did not always get a fair coverage on thaivisa.com by some who do not like us so much however we strive to provide the highest quality of service and certainly provide the most reliable ED visa support for our students.

Till date we had no problems at any of of the Walen schools. One reason is that we indeed teach Thai and not just pretend we do but really hope to make money on ED visa support. This is our 10th year of doing business in Thailand and each year we are becoming more and more popular so we must be doing something right.

Walen School - Great method and reliable ED visa support

www.thaiwalen.com

And you are exactly the reason why I moved all the way from Koh Chang to Chiang Mai rather than go to your school in BKK. I went to immigration here, spoke with the head honcho and was informed that IUS absoloutely was found to be in compliance with all rules. (CMU was not audited, bonehead. Get your facts straight.)He told me the only reason my visa could not be processed is because the the University refused to sign the letters.

I think you just lost a huge amount of business for your school. Can you say, "classified job search"?

I don't believe I need to say much more here, your letter is so transparent I can see the logo on the back of my laptop.

[femi fan]

What a shambles. This type of thing only happens in a banana republic. If true, new director should be sacked, publicly disgraced, and be made to personally reimburse shafted students and apologise.

No it doesn't only happen in a banana republic, and in any case thailand does not qualify for your choice of epithet. It can happen anywhere where someone in authority gets blinded by their anger. Emotional reactions such as yours are hardly conducive to finding solutions. They will just serve to fuel whatever blind anger already exists.

I would anticipate that once the media get involved, a solution may be found. It appears we have a VIP who will only see sense when forced to by the relevant government body/institution.

It does seem a total shambles for the PR of CMU though. The moral of the story is that institutions can spend ages building up respect and authority and can lose it in the blink of an eye through the actions of one or two individuals.

[wynzlo]

I'm just going to throw my situation into the mix.

I registered for the CEP and paid my 18,000 baht at the end of July. While back in the U.S. I desperately emailed the folks at the Language Institute over and over trying to get my visa paperwork, but kept getting the runaround every time. Eventually I had to fly back to Thailand on the flight I had booked months prior and just got my 30 days at the airport.

I was convinced, and still am convinced, that I was scammed by CMU. It's quite shocking since the only reason I signed up for the program was because it was offered by such a reputable institution. It's funny to think about what would happen to the U.S. university I work for if they pulled a stunt like this.

I'm still debating whether to write my university about the situation. They get a number of interns from CMU and while my instinct is to get back at CMU somehow, I'm not looking to affect the students themselves.

Thanks to everyone who's been posting on this thread. While I'm still taking most of it with a grain of salt, it's the only information I have at this point. Thaivisa has proven it's great value once again.