Pigs 101 (A Start)

[IsaanAussie]

I am a pig herdsman. I wash them.I feed them. And I listen to them. No I take more than few minutes to clean each pen, in fact 14 pens takes all day. So what? Do your pigs crowd the door when You want to come inside,but move away and let you in?

I didnt start this about 5.5 kg runts. I'm out, i have a few great animals that will not realize tjheir potential. That is hurt enough. fuc_k you all

[somo]

I guess I am a hypocrite. I eat meat but no way could I farm it. I find it impossible to understand someone loving doing it.

There are other ways of being independent and living off the land.

There is an inbuilt dilema facing any animal farmer that I choose not to face.

It is that there has to be a tradeoff between profit and animal welfare/happiness.

Even the most beautifully designed concrete room is not a natural enviroment for any animal

just a convenience for the farmer. Fattening animals in an unnatural enviroment then cutting their throats

to make money is disgusting. Loving them but still doing it because needs must is worse.

Leave it to the heartless and do something else like growing vegetables or fish who at least live in a natural enviroment.

You will feel better.

[Khonwan]

I never had a problem with this. As with my pets in the house (currently 3 cats but have also had dogs, and even goats and sheep), I enjoyed being around the livestock and working with them but I never became emotionally attached in any way; I wouldn’t have farmed livestock otherwise and can’t personally understand those who do. Perhaps it helps, though, if you are farming a larger number of livestock as I did. I believe in good animal husbandry and have no time for animal cruelty whether whilst raising them or at their point of death; cruelty is counterproductive from a food quality perspective anyway.

As for the act of confining livestock to a small concrete area, if that is to be deemed unfair or cruel how can we justify treating our own species in this same manner by jailing convicts? “Ah but convicts deserve it, animals haven’t done anything wrong.” I’m sure most convicts do deserve such treatment but as animals, as we humans are, many convicts have simply been true to their nature. So if society deems such enclosure for the human species as acceptable and not cruel why should society consider otherwise for other animal species that many regard as inferior to humans? “Ah but locking up convicts is the most practical solution”. Also true in the case of livestock.

“Let’s get back to nature”. Fact is, as anyone living close to nature must know, nature is extremely cruel.

Rgds

Khonwan

[somo]

I disagree.

Nature is not cruel but can indeed be harsh. Survival of the fittest etc.

Cruelty implies inflicting unnecessary suffering which we sometimes justify for economic reasons.

There is a big difference between economic survival and a life or death struggle.

There is no doubt that most animals raised for human consumption have an unatural life

Only after decades of camapigning in the UK has the outlawing of battery chicken farming been implemented.

It was just economics that stopped it happening earlier. Nothing to do with nature.

We humans can understand the difference but find it convenient to ignore it.

$'s drive it not concern for animal welfare

[revar]

Why don't u guys mixing your own feed instead of being worried all the time about higher price on commercial feed.

U can make profit from:

* Raise your own piglet (from own sow)

* Raise your piglets to 100 kg

* Mix your own feed

Then if possible, slaughter and sell meat on market.

I found that mixing your kwn feed is difficult if you aim to raise pigs from 15-105kg in 4 months.its ok if you want to do it in5-6 months. biggest problem is that some of the ingredients spoil very quickly. lam (bran) of 2 days old can go bad. to make mixing yourself profitable you need large quantaties ( each day) so either have many pigs buy with a group of fArmers.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[humblefalang]

I am a pig herdsman. I wash them.I feed them. And I listen to them. No I take more than few minutes to clean each pen, in fact 14 pens takes all day. So what? Do your pigs crowd the door when You want to come inside,but move away and let you in?

I didnt start this about 5.5 kg runts. I'm out, i have a few great animals that will not realize tjheir potential. That is hurt enough. fuc_k you all

i have been reading this forum for quite a while and i have learned a lot a hell of a lot, most if it from IA, and i thank you for you contribution, i really mean it.

but there 5-6 user names that are also knowledgeable, i can see that and also experienced,

IA i think i understand your point of being a herdsman, but also you have to respect that other look at it as income,/wages.

such as my self, yes sure you can get attached to the beast as i am at the moment for example, i have a sow that i care for everyday, it has given me 6 rounds of piglets, and i have only lost 3 piglets from her out of all the 6 rounds, but she will be sold for meat, i feel a bit (errr, not sure how to say it) sad maybe, but the reason i got her first was for in income, give me piglets, raised them kill them eat them, simple as hard as it may sound,

your (F_uck you all) leaves a bit shocked, i have a feeling you may have other things going on that have accumulated such a feeling and you have just let it out,

I sincerely hope that once you reflect back on you last post you decide to came back and continue this great thread that actually as we all know you started it.

Cheers, HF

[IsaanAussie]

HF,

Of course you are right. There are some very knowledgeable pig farmers on this topic and their inputs are valuable to me. I can never be a factory farmer of livestock. What others do is of course up to them. For me the animals welfare comes first, ahead of profits. That is my ethic and I am not going to change it.

My personal circumstances have become very difficult and I am planning to depopulate the sty, at least for a while and concentrate on related things. This is not a move I wish to take but it is a business decision the return on the pigs is too small to warrant the effort needed.

So yes, heaps of pressure on me and I exploded. You all have my apology for the outburst.

[jompa67]

Just talked with my contact in Betagro. They sell on 66-68 bath/kg in Korat.

[revar]

sold 25 pigs (avg 98 kg) at 60 thb/ kg.

Bough new stock:15 from 4-8 kg for 6000.

5 between 30-55 kg for 10000. and 10 between 14-20 + 5 between 20-27 for 18000.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

sold 25 pigs (avg 98 kg) at 60 thb/ kg.

Bough new stock:15 from 4-8 kg for 6000.

5 between 30-55 kg for 10000. and 10 between 14-20 + 5 between 20-27 for 18000.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

Mathematically a very good deal on the piglets (leave my opinion out ). By my numbers you paid 67 baht a kg instead of 100 and will spend another 5,000 baht to get them to the "normal" piglet selling weight. A total cost of 11K which at current price you could sell in two weeks for 24,000.

Hope they all make it for you.

[revar]

I think its a good deal too. I actually bought these small piglets at the 22nd. they were bought at a cp farm in ayutaya by my suplier and had just arrived in si kiuw a day before. they were tired but healthy and not thin but nice round tummies. because they were tired they didn't look that good to my supplier who likes to sell pigs on very quickly. so I got a good deal with nice profit potential. fed some if the smaller ones milk with a bottle for a few days and the 15 have already aten 80 kg belac. they are between 8 and 14 kg now.

I dont like to buy piglets this small normally because they have been seperated from mum to quickly. this is not good ethically and commercially(higher risk of disseases/gut problems). but the big farms do sell these'surplus piglets' and they have a good chance with our intensive care. and with a low enough price its also commercially attractive. And they are so cute.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[MrChangers]

sold 25 pigs (avg 98 kg) at 60 thb/ kg.

Bough new stock:15 from 4-8 kg for 6000.

5 between 30-55 kg for 10000. and 10 between 14-20 + 5 between 20-27 for 18000.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

I hope the feed prices do not rise for you! Sounds a great deal, good luck!

[revar]

[/url]revar, on 2013-02-01 17:07:26, said:

sold 25 pigs (avg 98 kg) at 60 thb/ kg.

Bough new stock:15from 4-8 kg for 6000.

5 between 30-55 kg for 10000. and 10 between 14-20 + 5 between 20-27 for 18000.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

I hope the feed prices do not rise for you! Sounds a great deal, good luck!

thanx, I hope so too, but don't count on it. probably another 30% rise in prices this year.

But the high feed prices have driven 70% of (small) pig farmers around here out of business, so the local sharks and back-of-the-car meat sellers have fewer places to go to get their pigs. So I am hoping that prices will not go back to under 50 but stay at 54+.

they have been offering 54 around here now but in the end bought my pigs at 60 sincethey coundn't find people who would sell at these prices. I have been telling the few farmers who are left not to sell under 58 and most are listening to me/us.

We are in the lean years amd buying piglets at the listed prices is a sure loss but we now buy cp rejects who don't look that good and who others don't immediately want. Luckily we are very good at estimating if they are seriously sick or just tired/underfed and need other better food and more intensive care.

(one trick is to buy them directky after they have been transported for a long distance).

With the last batch of small pigs we bottle-fed 3 for four days and they went from 3.5 to 7 kg in 3 days. now they are puting on almost a kg a day. very rewarding emotionally.

But most importantly we

love pigs and the work involved on this so Iam still happy and reasonbly optimistic.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[revar]

I will share one more thing and appriciate any possitive or negative comments.

We have been concentrating on quality and are allready getting a few bath more/kg then others around here. our main buyer sold 1pig a day but with our pigs ge sells 2.5 a say from the back of his pickup. His customers now want our meat.

He now wants us to expand and he will then buy pigs only from us. I am considering this and are if we do this we will draw up a contract. what I am not sure of is if we should agree on a set price all year round or something like 7 bath below cp price (the local aggriciltural farm sells 3-5 bath below cp-price).

Again, any comments are appreciated.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

My hat is off to you. Recovery/growth like that, I have never got close to that. Given the simple calc's I did then you may well have found a niche, rejuvenating piglets that couldmake you a rich man.

[IsaanAussie]

What advantage would you have signing such a deal? You take all the risks and guarantee him a margin in all market conditions. Drive the pigs over to the market yourself.

[tingtong]

I will share one more thing and appriciate any possitive or negative comments.

We have been concentrating on quality and are allready getting a few bath more/kg then others around here. our main buyer sold 1pig a day but with our pigs ge sells 2.5 a say from the back of his pickup. His customers now want our meat.

He now wants us to expand and he will then buy pigs only from us. I am considering this and are if we do this we will draw up a contract. what I am not sure of is if we should agree on a set price all year round or something like 7 bath below cp price (the local aggriciltural farm sells 3-5 bath below cp-price).

Again, any comments are appreciated.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

If the local agri farm sells 3-5thb bellow CP, why would you be 7 bellow?

Is your pigs inferior to theirs in any ways?

[revar]

What advantage would you have signing such a deal? You take all the risks and guarantee him a margin in all market conditions. Drive the pigs over to the market yourself.

he is a butcher who drives around the villages selling meat. the market sellers only buy at the agricultural office farm ( part of their deal for cheap loans etc).

My reason to do this would be a guaranteed buyer at a guaranteed reasonable price which stay somewhat level. if the local price is low I would still get a reasonable price.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[revar]

I will share one more thing and appriciate any possitive or negative comments.

We have been concentrating on quality and are allready getting a few bath more/kg then others around here. our main buyer sold 1pig a day but with our pigs ge sells 2.5 a say from the back of his pickup. His customers now want our meat.

He now wants us to expand and he will then buy pigs only from us. I am considering this and are if we do this we will draw up a contract. what I am not sure of is if we should agree on a set price all year round or something like 7 bath below cp price (the local aggriciltural farm sells 3-5 bath below cp-price).

Again, any comments are appreciated.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

If the local agri farm sells 3-5thb bellow CP, why would you be 7 bellow?

Is your pigs inferior to theirs in any ways?

most want to buy their pigs because of 1) repuation and 2) its were they get their cheap loans, agricultural bank accounts, etc.

They have good quality pigs but mine are better. but it will take years for the bigger market sellers to start realizing that.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

They have good quality pigs but mine are better. but it will take years for the bigger market sellers to start realizing that.

I believe it will happen as soon as you show them. If it takes you years to show them than you will be proven correct. Ask yourself, why would a middleman promote your pork? It must cost him more as people try to cut him out.

[tingtong]

I will share one more thing and appriciate any possitive or negative comments.

We have been concentrating on quality and are allready getting a few bath more/kg then others around here. our main buyer sold 1pig a day but with our pigs ge sells 2.5 a say from the back of his pickup. His customers now want our meat.

He now wants us to expand and he will then buy pigs only from us. I am considering this and are if we do this we will draw up a contract. what I am not sure of is if we should agree on a set price all year round or something like 7 bath below cp price (the local aggriciltural farm sells 3-5 bath below cp-price).

Again, any comments are appreciated.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

If the local agri farm sells 3-5thb bellow CP, why would you be 7 bellow?

Is your pigs inferior to theirs in any ways?

most want to buy their pigs because of 1) repuation and 2) its were they get their cheap loans, agricultural bank accounts, etc.

They have good quality pigs but mine are better. but it will take years for the bigger market sellers to start realizing that.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

my point.

agree at a price at or just 1 thb under the agri farrm prices as a contract, then you will have a fair enough price, and your buyer will have a better quality than buying from there...that is a win-win.

dont sell cheap yourself!!

[revar]

thanx for your replies. gives we something to think about.

Not sure if I will dothis but if I expand for another 100 pigs I do like the idea of a guaranteed market in todays unstable feed and pigprice situation.

If I do thos I will be the one drawing up the contract. I don't trust the buyers enough to rely e on a spoken promise for my future multiple year income.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

I am going to bow out of this issue as it is not something I have first hand knowledge of, or interest in. Revar you are a smart guy,you will do OK as you and only you know the details of your bottomline position. The industry is becoming a minefield of options and perhaps the short term plans need to take precedence. Things are moving too quick for me.

[MrChangers]

Well pigsters I have had to bite the bullet and sell some of the pigs to a shark. Not what I wanted to do but having been let down on several fronts this is the best option today. I have been looking into the future and am considering parting company with the young boar I have, who at about 5 months old is looking very solid. Alas and alack but offers of 52 baht per kilo are neither use nor ornament.

I will hold out for a few more days with the rest or the pick up truck could be doing the village rounds.

All is not lost as I have other ideas in the pipeline but Changers crystal ball sees higher feed prices coming and mixing your own is not a viable option as we know.

Boys, best of luck as times are not packed with humour in this part of sunny Surin!

Changers

[IsaanAussie]

Ratchaburi 69.00. (+4.5). Nakhon Pathom 69.00. (+4.5). Chachoengsao. 69.00. (+4). Chon Buri 69.00. (+4). East. 67.50. (+3). Chiang Mai 70.00. (+2). Sriracha. 69.00. (+4). Surat Thani 67.00. (+5). Songkhla 68.00. (+5). Piglets. 1800.00 + - 67.00.

Seems like a dream here. Did anyone see the DIT meeting outcome where they were to be setting prices last week. Seems like that could be just a sideshow as well. Hey, even at 5 under,10 even, make me an offer.

[randysavage]

am i missing something or just as green as grass? why dont you pig farmers have your sows produce the piglets? then you would now there quality if only one of the piggeries on this forum produced there own piglets other farmers on here could buy them knowing there getting good quality, not wanting to rattle anyones cage is my idea pie in the sky

[IsaanAussie]

am i missing something or just as green as grass? why dont you pig farmers have your sows produce the piglets? then you would now there quality if only one of the piggeries on this forum produced there own piglets other farmers on here could buy them knowing there getting good quality, not wanting to rattle anyones cage is my idea pie in the sky

RS your logic is sound enough, but not very practical. We do sell to each other on ocassion but remember we are separated by 100's of km and this business is cost conscious. Crossing provincial borders means paperwork, approvals, inspections and cost. Plus we are breeding and growing different breeds of pigs and cross breeds. Our markets are different.

RS, I for one would love to deal more often with my peers, but it just cannot be.

[cdmtdm]

guys , what about value adding ? i have no idea about pigs but it seems the person doing the value adding is making the bucks and calling the shots ... why not create a small market for your own produce ? just my thoughts ..shoot me down if need be ...

[revar]

RS. many of us produce our own piglets. But with maintaining a breeding herd there are a lot of costs involved. For me buying piglets often is cheaper then breeding my own. It al depends on your situation.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[tingtong]

am i missing something or just as green as grass? why dont you pig farmers have your sows produce the piglets? then you would now there quality if only one of the piggeries on this forum produced there own piglets other farmers on here could buy them knowing there getting good quality, not wanting to rattle anyones cage is my idea pie in the sky

i think you are missing something.

to simple put what prices you saw above are "paper" prices. i dont think most of them come across offers near to the above...

i am also in Issan, and the offers around here run around 55-56thb now, not 67!!!

on the other hand can buy piglets for 1300thb, not 1800....

those above numbers at best only to serve about price direction in my opinion, but far from facts for avarage pig farmers.