Pigs 101 (A Start)

[revar]

Allgeier,

Inject 2cc of oxytosin after the 3rd piglet is born.

Do not do it earlier because it will contract ( make smaller) the birth canal in addition to stimulating birth.

Check birth canal for obstructions if time between births is higher then 30 minutes. I usually do it at 15 minutes too. I tend to help get the piglets out to make it easier for the sow. Exhaustion may be a problem if birthing takes long, especially for gilts. When I notice that a sow/gilt is squirting milk I always open up the vulva/birth canal to make it a bit wider so she can get the first piglets out more easily. If you feel a piglet You can make a fist inside which opens up the canal in front of the piglet so she pishes it outceasier. Other times you can grap the legs or teeth and help it out.

This is very useful in speeding up the process and preventing mechanist ion of the mother.

An hour after the second afterbirth passes you can be relatively sure she's done ( although I have had piglets born hours later)

The amound of piglets can be regulated somewhat in the first weeks after conception.

If you feed a lot in the first month of pregnancy, you tend to get fewer but bigger piglets. If you feed little you get more but smaller piglets .

Piglets are most likely to be crushed I the first 24 hours after birth since they don't know yet to get away if the sow moves.

We do not use crates so crushing is a big risk. The first 8-12 hours one of us stays with the sow and moves the piglets to the creep box every time he falls asleep after drinking from the teats. After a while they learned where to sleep and go there themselves . even doing this only a few times already helps. Especially with experienced sows.

I call out 'pai baan pai baan' doing this and after a few days they go to their sleeping quarters as soon as I call this. Makes cleaning a lot easier.

All breeds can reach 120kg live weight without fat. Its all in how and what you feed at the various stages.

Iv used many brands of feed and adjusted feed programs. Now I get them to 120 kg in 4.5 month after birth with a minimum of fat.

Othersxwho use perfeqc feed have similar quality .

In fact the feedprogram is so successful that we can export and have many buyers. At the moment my foodcompany buyer can sell about 50 pigs a day in the region but more buyers are asking.

I myself use largewhite-landrace and largewhite-pietrain sows. Boars are Duroc.

Hope these tips help a bit

Edited March 23, 2016 by revar

[thoongfoned]

One hour after the first piglet i made a quick search on the web and there wrote about quecking the birthcanal and this was free and i inject 2 ml.

My thinking i was to late because 3 came out dead. The size from this 3 are normal. Maybe this birthprozess was to long for 20 piglet. But i am not sure. I have not to mutch expirience in this.

But when i look at this piglet today i am not happy. I am worry there not grow.

One month ago i bought 7 piglet from a friend. The sow give birth to 13 piglet and there normal or perfect.

I hope in the future i not have again more than 13 piglet in one litter. I try not to count the head. I like to count the Kilo i can sell and i have a bad feeling when look at them.

The sow is a LR with some DU insite. The boar was a LW. Maybe this was the reason.

In our village there is also a pigfarmer with 9 sow. But there sleep insite the pighouse to bring the small piglet every 2 hours the the sow to dring milk. But this is not what i want. I not like to sleep with the pig.

But the breed of them is LR with some wildpig insite and i slaugtered last week some of them for somebody else and there are to fat with 110 kg.

But there have all the time about 8 - 10 piglet in a litter.

Many question. The Time will bring the answer's. But the importends think is to manage the sow not have more than 12 piglet. In my case.

was it the next 3 piglets that came out dead after you did the 2ml injection? some times in the past I have found that if you use the oxytocin too early (say

when the mum is still having strong contractions - early labor) you will have still born piglets due to broken umbilicord. hence suffocate in the birthing canal. from my understanding of the use of said med it is usually applied in the second or last stage of labor.

how old are the piglets now? if they are drinking milk and the milk is good they will grow..... why not weight them today and check them again one or two

days time? average growth should be 200g a day per piglet, if they are very small less than this. 200g a day till around day 10, then more weight gain if all

is well. good luck.

[thoongfoned]

Iv been quiet a while. This is why :

We are going to be the regional ( si kew- dan khun tod- khorat area) distributer for perfeqc feed from inteqc feed co ltd. I have used their feed for over a year now and pigs reach 100kg in 3 to 3.5 months after weaning.

We got a buyer/export network in place and batches of 10+pigs feed on perfeqc feed will be bought by our buyers if the seller .wants ( he is free to sell to others too). Batches of 50+ high quality pigs will be bought at higher prices for export.

To give you an idea: todays prices are 61thb for small batches, 64 for export pigs.

I myself made better proffit with perfeqc then with any other food. Prices are available upon request. We can deliver in the area if sufficient quantity.

200+ bags will get discounts, 320+ bags bigger discounts and we can arrange delivery outside area.

However, outside our area we can only guarantee buying

export quality pigs.

Our farm/shop is on Line, name Renofarm.

sounds goods.

when wife said that she wanted to do pigs as a way of making money I just laughed, said it will take to long to make the local contacts ect... we had never

even owned a pig before.... but then she explained the business that she was thinking of doing ie work for a large company that has the infrastructure in place. after visiting many farms that operate in this way I was happy to give it a go. for me it makes sense to work for the "big boz" if you want to make decent reliable money every month. (if you can produce the goods that is)

all the best hope you do well.

[revar]

Yeah, same here. I was teaching when wife started with 10 pigs together in a pen of a friend.

Gave up my job after I found I liked working with pigs and had a knack for it.

Became a self thought vet, village advisor. Wife is a wizard with people and she's always managed to get discounts for our food.

She's lousy at business, so that's my job.

Taking care of the farm and pigs we both love and do.

The big struggle was always to find buyers, especially non sharks.

I'm very happy with my new arrangement since it has only good points:

-guaranteed buyers of our own pigs as well as of our food customers.

That's the biggest business -risk of pig farming in Thailand solved

-better prices then other quality food iv used.

-buyers who are paying reasonable prices for good pigs. And others who pay premium for high quality. A big difference from the sharks.

- a company who actually likes that I am doing things differently. They recognise quality and use some of my learnings. None of the 'that's not how we do it in Thailand' stuff.

Of course they need to. They are trying to become the third pig company in Thailand after cp and betagro. They doing things differently themselves and I believe it will work out.

-and of course I pay factory price for my own farm, so even if I don't sell anything in my shop I still make a profit by using it myself lol.

My son is quiting his current job and will run the food business from our house in the village so we keep locations from shop and farm separate for biosecurity reasons.

He will also do the deliveries and car will be decontaminated after each delivery.

Happy pigging pigsters

Edited March 24, 2016 by revar

[Allgeier]

thoongfoned:

The 3 dead pig came on the end. But there are not small. Normal size.

I take them away from the mother the last days. 10 will grow and 2 maybe not.

This umbilicord cord came not out broken. But i am not sure.

But i my case. I know is maybe not easy to answer. How long should be the deadline between to piglet befor injektion? On the web there take about have an hour.

Revar:

Here the site from

http://www.inteqcgroup.com/

I am happy with my SPM Shop but it's all the time good to upgrade the Knowledge in this direction. I started with Balance feed, but there not buying the pig's after.And after a while we found SPM.

And this makes the life easier to know somebody buy the pig after.

[thoongfoned]

re injection its up to you. when you think the time is right. I have said already that I would use the injection nearer to the end than at the start, for me the oxytocin is to help give the mum that little extra boost re contractions to get the last piglets out and then the after birth. every mum will be different re how long between piglets and how long total birth time. just check the mum for signs of stress ie. you can see she pushing but nothing coming out, always good to my mind to check she inside, ie hand arm in to have a feel about. always make sure your hand ect is clean and a little bit of water or lube would be good, try and not over check she inside as you can cause infections, damage by checking to much. if she is on she side and giving milk its a good sign that all is well, if she is up down ect she could need help. again for me its about the more time and births you see that you will get the feel for "all well" or "a little dodgy.".... this time of year when its very hot it will also not help the mums.....

oh if you can try and cut the piglets teeth as soon as possible, this will help the mum relax as she will not have all those little razor teeth biting she.

for me the sooner the mum is relaxed the sooner the piglets can get on the milk. also its good to teach the piglets where to go and sleep-and hide when mum stands up.

[revar]

My methods:

Oxytocin stimulates contractions which will help push the piglet out but can also cause it to het stuck. After I use oxytocin I always check each 15 minutes by inserting hand/ lower arm.

There are signs that the sow is trying to push, many will lift her leg to chest and if piglet is getting to the end of the birth canal many will wag their tails franticly. If you see this last happen a few times and no piglet gets out , better check. Often she has problems getting them past the pelvis hole or just not enough push power. I usually help gilts with getting the first piglet out. And after 12 she's often very tired and I help again.

After or during the farrowing I inject 7 cc (for a 150 kg sow) of penstrep to the sow to prevent infections.

Most vets here will advice waiting one day to clip the teeth and tail, but iv seen teats destroyed fast.

I clip teeth and tail within a few minutes after the piglet is born. It doesn't feel any pain and isn't scared yet so there are no screams to disturb the sow. I inject the piglet with 0.5cc of penstrep to prevent infections.

Day 3 I inject 2cc of iron. Day 5 I will remove the festivals of the males and inject 1cc of penstrep. This is usually also the last antibiotic they get in their lives.

allgeier, you were very passionate about animal wellfare , so I'm sorry to hear you saying you think you will use birthing cages now

I don't find it necessary if you establish a trusting relation with the sows, take care not to make piglets scream and leave the sow alone if she wants.

A screaming piglet will often make sows ( even the others close) aggressive. If a piglet screams often depends on how you handle it.

A few tips:

- lifting a piglet up high will most likely make it scream. So I do the following.

1)Best time to handle a piglet is when they are drinking. Even if it screams the sow often won't react. She's getting a kind of natural trabqualizer when piglets are suckling.

2)grap piglet by tail, and inject in neck while its drinking. No need to lift it up often.

3) alternatively lift it just a little it won't scream then. This is also how I teach them their sleeping quarters. Lift them so legs are just above/touching ground and 'walk ' them to the sleeping area.

4) if you need to inject many and lift them high Grap them by the head. They scream and struggle a lot less.

5)f they bigger and you can't do this anymore press them against your chest while moving them. Your body heat makes them feel safer.

Hope u find these tips useful.

[revar]

And yes allgeier. That's the company I be area distributor/stock for.

They started as food supplier.

In my area (isan) they now have buy back the pigs of farms using their feed. Collect them in their own farms for export. Sell to butchers, have their own butchers. Basicly the whole chain.

The buying part is not for whole Thailand yet BTW. That's something regional although expending to other regions. but I can arrange it for some other areas as well especially for batches of 50+ pigs.

If anyone needs/wants more details pm me.

Edited March 24, 2016 by revar

[Allgeier]

Somebody know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbetocin

Its a Alternativepraeparat to Oxytocin?

And its's possible to buy in Thailand. The google search is a little bit pur. I could't find somethink.

[thoongfoned]

well its well and truly roasting here now, just over 42c for the last few days, that's the temp five meters from the front of the farm building under shade. been able to keep the front end of the farm (inside, building sealed ie. suspended ceiling ect) 26 -27c and seventy meters to the back at the fans its just about 29c. the mums seem happy enough, the mums on full feed (nursing piglets) are still eating 12 plus kg each a day...

I am always looking at the "cheap" roof we have on the building and wishing that at the time of build we had had the extra money that was needed to put a quality roof on say like a blue scope...... I will be looking at trying to add some insulation to the roof soon ish money allowing to try and drive down the electric and fuel bills, so much heat comes down through that roof!

[Allgeier]

Last week i got visit from a seller who sell's

http://www.vcffeedmill.com/

I never hear from this company. But my first questions was if there buy the finised pig after. And he told me "Yes".

I will try in the nearly future some piglet with this feed and i will see what happen. But in my eyes i can not see so a big differant between the feedcompony's.

Or is there a big differant?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Allgeier

[Robert24]

I think they are fairly similar. The advantage I thought with CP was that you have a contract and a fixed date when they come pick up the pigs, it's just that their food is overpriced, on the other side they guarantee the published CP price for when you sell the pigs. In my view it's probably still the easiest way with the least headache to operate that way.

[thoongfoned]

Last week i got visit from a seller who sell's

http://www.vcffeedmill.com/

I never hear from this company. But my first questions was if there buy the finised pig after. And he told me "Yes".

I will try in the nearly future some piglet with this feed and i will see what happen. But in my eyes i can not see so a big differant between the feedcompony's.

Or is there a big differant?

I would look at: how much the feed cost. how often they deliver. line of credit on the feed, for how long. how much they pay for pigs at what weight. then look at the composition of the feed.

[thoongfoned]

I think they are fairly similar. The advantage I thought with CP was that you have a contract and a fixed date when they come pick up the pigs, it's just that their food is overpriced, on the other side they guarantee the published CP price for when you sell the pigs. In my view it's probably still the easiest way with the least headache to operate that way.

are you still working with CP? all good?

[revar]

I'm no longer a neutral party since I now sell perfecq feed, but even before I noticed big differences in feed quality between brands. So much difference that I could get pigs to 100-120kg on a bag less or 3weeks faster by switching feeds.

Also feed recommendations on the bags are usually aimed at 'moo baan'. if you got high quality piglets it pays to find out a better feed strategy. Experience will make this easier .

Also note that some feedcompanies change their formula over the year to profit from raw material price differences. So the no.x you use now can be different from the no x 9 months ago.

[IsaanAussie]

Remember, like humans, pigs excrete up to 80% of what they eat so the protein levels consumed are only 20% of the marked differences across the range. Also consider that feeds laced with antibiotics and other growth hormones will produce faster results. Look for the carcass quality you want and then find the cheapest way you can produce it, money and time wise. Many other ways to fill a pig without using only pellets.

[Mosha]

Help, last week the government pig handout arrived in the shape of piglets. Now 1 is sick, very sick. From google it looks like swine fever. Purple legs and snout. I know nothing of keeping pigs. So is there a cure, and what needs to be done?

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[BSJ]

Remember, like humans, pigs excrete up to 80% of what they eat so the protein levels consumed are only 20% of the marked differences across the range. Also consider that feeds laced with antibiotics and other growth hormones will produce faster results. Look for the carcass quality you want and then find the cheapest way you can produce it, money and time wise. Many other ways to fill a pig without using only pellets.

Hi there, was wondering if your still selling processed pig poo.....and do you have a web site?

The wife needs fertilizer for mango and lime trees.

Cheers

[thoongfoned]

Help, last week the government pig handout arrived in the shape of piglets. Now 1 is sick, very sick. From google it looks like swine fever. Purple legs and snout. I know nothing of keeping pigs. So is there a cure, and what needs to be done?

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dont sound good. move said piglet away from others, as far away as you can. for me i would kill it but that coz im........... if you only have afew and this is new to you its not easy, as you have not bred the piglets, hence know the history ect....... look at sick piglet and keep an eye on others to see if they get the same. main thing i would say is move the sick one away. ask around and try and find said source of piglets ie breeder. then see what is happening with other people that have had same piglets from same farm ect... ask the locals what they think, are doing, would do.... best of luck.

[Mosha]

Help, last week the government pig handout arrived in the shape of piglets. Now 1 is sick, very sick. From google it looks like swine fever. Purple legs and snout. I know nothing of keeping pigs. So is there a cure, and what needs to be done?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

dont sound good. move said piglet away from others, as far away as you can. for me i would kill it but that coz im........... if you only have afew and this is new to you its not easy, as you have not bred the piglets, hence know the history ect....... look at sick piglet and keep an eye on others to see if they get the same. main thing i would say is move the sick one away. ask around and try and find said source of piglets ie breeder. then see what is happening with other people that have had same piglets from same farm ect... ask the locals what they think, are doing, would do.... best of luck.

Thanks, trying to get er indoors to go see the put yai.

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[thoongfoned]

if it is raining down your end make sure they have a dry warm area. best not to let them get wet, or be able to lick the wet land/ground ect...

[Mosha]

Not raining yet, but it's due. Winds off the Andaman now.

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Edited April 18, 2016 by Mosha

[Mosha]

OK it's gone, just gotta keep nagging so she see the put yai. Wish they'd gone for chickens. Looks like our egg man has retired.

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[Robert24]

I think they are fairly similar. The advantage I thought with CP was that you have a contract and a fixed date when they come pick up the pigs, it's just that their food is overpriced, on the other side they guarantee the published CP price for when you sell the pigs. In my view it's probably still the easiest way with the least headache to operate that way.

are you still working with CP? all good?

not sure yet. They are great but I don't have enough mom pigs yet to create batches of more than 50 pigs, so I would have to buy baby pigs again. Currently thinking about it. But definitely will work again with CP once I have enough baby pigs.

[Mosha]

Spoke to the put yai wife. Many piglets have died, even after inoculation.

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[Allgeier]

- how much the feed cost.

- how often they deliver.

- line of credit on the feed, for how long.

- how much they pay for pigs at what weight. then look at the composition of the feed.

And at this point i asking me if i pay immediately my feedbill and pick up the feed by my self. Now it's the question if my pig's are good or bad quality.

But if there good quality,how to get the offical price?

Last month i slaughter some pigs from the village for some party's and there are fat in my eyes.A pig with 90 kg alive should not have 2 cm of fat on the neck.

But if i have some hybrid pig i will get after the some price like for the fat pig's.

Is this normal?

In my eyes not.

A couple of month ago there was a pigfarmer meeting in Roi Et and there was one spokesman from Mahasarakham and he said he will pay 4 Bath more if there are hybrid. But i am not sure if must buy the piglet from them.

If i can sell every month 15 pig i will be happy. And this should be maybe in one year.

But what i try to write is why i am worry about some hybrid pig if i not get after a better price.

This LR+ Duroc pig's i can feed up to 120 kg and there are not to fat in my eyes. My thinking is to feed them up to 80 kg with the feed from the shop and after with my one mix to 120 kg.

[revar]

Any breed of pig can get to 100-120 kg without much fat.

The trick is in seeing when to change to the next ( lower protein) type.

Following the recommendations on the bags for any brand will usually lead to fat pigs if you got good quality piglets and a good environment.. The recommendations on the bags are for village pigs (moo baan) which are bought by the sharks etc. All the major brands also have feed programs for farm-pigs. Following these programs will usually lead to better quality meat, but if you have good piglets and a good environment for your pigs you still want to switch feeds at earlier stages then in the program.

This is especially true with the higher proteins ones.

When I fed with betagro for instance I did not use creep feed and switched to the feed for 30-60kg when my pigs were 22-24kg. This reduced belly fat in the finished pigs

With perfect I do something similar .

In general I use feeds for 12-20. 20-60.60-90.90-120

But deciding when to change is more based on body index then on weight.

With experience its not too hard to see where fat is developing. If you see it at an early stage. Switch back to the previous feed a while.

When I sell my feed to new customers I always look at their pigs . iv seen lots of brands used in every wrong way possible .

But even a 80 kg fat pig can become a reasobly good quality 110ish kg pig by changing the feed program at that stage. Only the belly fat is hard toget rid off.

A good feeding program makes for good quality pigs. Not the breed

Since I guarantee that my customers pigs will be bought by our butchers, we insist that they use our feed and feeding program. (If quality is bad, we have to make up the difference)

But since its cheaper and faster then the other brands they are usually happy with that. Free vet visits and such are also included. But it also means no mixing with ram or other things.

If I know how many pigs at diferent stages someone has ( and seen them), I know how much of each type of feed they will need.

If they buy a lot less I know they have been mixing and we won't buy their pigs.

If you want to get closer to farm pig prices and guaranteed buyers there must be quality control, medical checks , biosecurity etc.

Unfortunately mixing your own feed at any stage will make it very hard to get high prices unless you can supply pigs on batches of 100+

At the moment we need around 40 pigs a day for our local butchers ( and there's a butcher waiting list!) in 3 provinces. In addition we need 100-150 real high quality pigs a month for export.

By having all customers use the same feed and programs we can supply these using small farmers with 10-40 pigs ( and a few bigger farms).

[revar]

Various stages of renofarm pigs

[revar]

Installed these in the sow pens to keep them cool on this hot weather.

Total cost for 50 meter under thb 3000. Highly recommended.

[thoongfoned]

- how much the feed cost.

- how often they deliver.

- line of credit on the feed, for how long.

- how much they pay for pigs at what weight. then look at the composition of the feed.

And at this point i asking me if i pay immediately my feedbill and pick up the feed by my self. Now it's the question if my pig's are good or bad quality.

But if there good quality,how to get the offical price?

Last month i slaughter some pigs from the village for some party's and there are fat in my eyes.A pig with 90 kg alive should not have 2 cm of fat on the neck.

But if i have some hybrid pig i will get after the some price like for the fat pig's.

Is this normal?

In my eyes not.

A couple of month ago there was a pigfarmer meeting in Roi Et and there was one spokesman from Mahasarakham and he said he will pay 4 Bath more if there are hybrid. But i am not sure if must buy the piglet from them.

If i can sell every month 15 pig i will be happy. And this should be maybe in one year.

But what i try to write is why i am worry about some hybrid pig if i not get after a better price.

This LR+ Duroc pig's i can feed up to 120 kg and there are not to fat in my eyes. My thinking is to feed them up to 80 kg with the feed from the shop and after with my one mix to 120 kg.

rever has made a very good post regarding your situation........ why not ask him what deals ect are open for a new customer... off line of course.... then you can see what one company would offer......

if you go down the route of "working for" a feed company then expect them to buy your finished pigs I think you will find you will have to jump through the hoops that they set for you. ie. feed per pig into kg in a given time scale, bio security ect ect believe me the list will grow..............

working for or contract farming I believe is getting harder and will continue to do so as the markets develop\change. the demands that are placed on said companies sure do filter down to the "village farmer" if you go down this route.

I do think that working for a large player that can bank roll the day to day is the way to go though if you want sure money in the bank every month - providing the product meets their demands..........