American Jumps To His Death

[ChiangMaiThai]

American in his mid 40s jumped from 3rd or 4th floor of the inside of the shopping complex around 9am this morning. I often saw this man sitting in front of the Starbucks all day. The staff said that he had run out of money and was homeless. I feel pretty bad that I never offered to help, but I also wonder about out embassy. Do they do anything to assist Americans who have come here and run out of money?

[Boater]

Do they do anything to assist Americans who have come here and run out of money?

no , unfortuanlty not, even the british embassey do nothing apart from advise on western union transfers, its a sham that the british goverment will help every tom , dick and harry in the uk who doesnt hold a uk passport, but wont help there own abroad, but thats a whole different subject

RIP to man

[GuestHouse]

One more tragedy - and presumably we can put aside the usual claims that the jumper was pushed.

A couple of weeks back the Thai news channels were running a report on a young Australian who is seen in the report leaping from the top of a15+ meter bill board.

These stories are all to common place in the Land of Smiles.

RIP and condolences to his family.

[saintofsilence]

There was also the guy who jumped at the airport i think he was irish.

[sillyman99]

I went to the Pattaya Consulate Office in Pattaya yesterday, ( It's closed till the 20th I discovered ), there was a gaunt looking man sitting outside the closed door, looked liked he was homeless, he told me he was waiting for a friend, but he was homeless I'm sure. Plastic bags with belongings etc.

Many Farangs come to Thailand after completely screwing everything up in their own countries, Credit Cards maxed out, Bank loans etc etc, screwing up relationships with Family and Friends and employers to live the Dream, then it all goes tits up and the dream becomes a nightmare.

Many people seem surprised that so many Farangs commit suicide in Thailand, personally, I'm surprised there's so few.

[CWMcMurray]

I actually believe that the American Embassy will help with an ""Emergency Loan" that can only be used to get back to USA... not cash.

I believe it because it was told to be by a Embassy Officer. granted, this was only mentioned in passing. We were just having a social conversation about what the embassy can and can not do.

I understand that this is a loan and must be paid back and that if not paid back uncle Sam will garnish your wages. I also remember her mentioning that there were safeguards to ensure that you could only use the money to travel back to the USA and that you would not be allowed to leave the country or get a passport again until the money was paid back to the government.

[Norcan]

My office is in the Ploenchit Center and I have been observing Jeff's (that was his name) gradual demise over the past year.

He used to use one of the benches outside my office to sleep on and was totally harmless, but unfortunately he was sleeping rough and had been for 3 years.

Oddly enough, I was having a coffee at Danube this morning and happened to look at my watch. It was 9:20am when he marched past me and he actually looked healthier than he has done for weeks.

Sadly, 10 minutes later he had jumped. I had left for a meeting by then and am grateful I did as his fall would have ended about 2 meters from where I was sitting.

I only had a few chat's with him, but he was very friendly and obviously an intelligent man who had fallen on very hard times.

RIP.

[cheynewalk]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

[WarpSpeed]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

Yep, truer words were never spoken....I might add though instead of "concerned" when they're dead I'd use the term suddenly compassionate...

I'd even go a step further and say that if he had for example come on here and sought out help I can just imagine the lambasting he'd a gotten about his being a loser, tosser in life etc. he'd just have off'd himself a bit sooner is all ...

Edited November 9, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[ableguy]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

Yep, truer words were never spoken....I might add though instead of "concerned" when they're dead I'd use the term suddenly compassionate...

I'd even go a step further and say that if he had for example come on here and sought out help I can just imagine the lambasting he'd a gotten about his being a loser, tosser in life etc. he'd just have off'd himself a bit sooner is all ...

If he was living rough for three years I wonder how the BIB never picked him up or imigration ?

[GuestHouse]

I'm not sure how offering condolences on hearing of the death of someone in such tragic circumstances is considered as 'suddenly compassionate' or 'suddenly concerned about some we have not been concerned about while they were alive'.

I don't know many expats who have not tried to help a friend or stranger out at some time or another (the bitter types who rant against beggars might be an exception).

I, or any one else for that matter, hears a guy takes his own life having got himself into problems in Thailand, I/we don't need to know the whole story (as Transam suggests) in order to consider it a tragedy or even to offer condolences.

[welsh1]

this is all you seem to be hearing nowa days ..should always make sure you have enough money at least for your flight home back to your family

i know how a few cases where falangs have gone to there embassy and have gotten help from there embassy ...they will organize flights accommodation ETC.

But will only do so through the victims family who will then pay all money back to the government.

there is so many foreigners coming to thailand to live the dream but for what ever reason ending up penny less and on the streets and then seeing no other way out.

[richard_smith237]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

Yep, truer words were never spoken....I might add though instead of "concerned" when they're dead I'd use the term suddenly compassionate...

I'd even go a step further and say that if he had for example come on here and sought out help I can just imagine the lambasting he'd a gotten about his being a loser, tosser in life etc. he'd just have off'd himself a bit sooner is all ...

If he was living rough for three years I wonder how the BIB never picked him up or imigration ?

What benefit would there be in that for the police or immigration. The man in question; RIP, clearly had no means in which to be taken advantage of.

Additionally: I don't believe it is the responsibility of the the British Embassy to hand out money to those in need. The Embassy is not a charity.

I think many of us believe the Embassies are there for us, they are not. They exist for our Governments and Countries, they exist to generate trade by diplomatic means and as an add on they are there to provide some small measure of assistance without interfering with local law. It seems too many of us these days have expectations of our embassies beyond reasonable measures.

Yes, unfortunately, some people do fall by the wayside and that is terrible. But we should all be responsible for ourselves and when that fails there is 'usually' a social security network in place for us in our home countries.

More could and always should be done but the sad story is that if the British Embassies around the world did have a system in place to support its 'fallen subjects' there would be many who take advantage of such a system and it would fail all too quickly. The very same folk who are requesting such systems would then be the first to criticize. The means for a flight home (as a loan) is more than enough.

[WarpSpeed]

I'm not sure how offering condolences on hearing of the death of someone in such tragic circumstances is considered as 'suddenly compassionate' or 'suddenly concerned about some we have not been concerned about while they were alive'.

I don't know many expats who have not tried to help a friend or stranger out at some time or another (the bitter types who rant against beggars might be an exception).

I, or any one else for that matter, hears a guy takes his own life having got himself into problems in Thailand, I/we don't need to know the whole story (as Transam suggests) in order to consider it a tragedy or even to offer condolences.

My post was generally stated and not in reference to any one particular case.

As for our embassies not helping to avoid scams. That's just plain horse manure the country in question for example just like my own helps more immigrants and outsiders on a consistent basis under the guise of humanitarian aid merely for the purposes of PR then they will ever come close to losing in any legitimate citizen scams to aid their own citizens even if it was a constant occurrence... The risk is worth the life's saved and furthermore my tax dollars are there for that and the embassies to assist our citizens first and foremost..

I might also add that it's mostly about being human and showing compassion for your fellow human beings let alone citizens as next time it might be you or someone else falling on hard times as it can happen to anyone at anytime in spite of perfect planning..

Anything else is a cop out...

Edited November 9, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[stander]

Many years ago there was a sort of word of mouth system, with the source usually being an embassy official.

You would get a phone call telling you of a Brit down on his luck and then it was up to you whether you wanted to help.

I would imagine what has happened over the years is that there has just been too many cases and the friend of a friend word of mouth system was just overwhelmed

Edited November 9, 2010 by stander

[Chunky1]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

[sillyman99]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

Edited November 9, 2010 by sillyman99

[JurgenG]

When I first read this forum I expected to see some kind of solidarity between "farangs".

I didn't find any.

Don't blame your country, your embassy or your consulate.

How many people did you help today ?

If you need help tomorrow, remember how many people you did help yesterday.

[Chunky1]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

What?

Anyone planning to leave Thailand or who came here as a backpacker can claim that they are broke and need a free ticket home, as some here are advocating the governments should provide to them. I am simply pointing out how such a policy would be abused.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Chunky1

[IanForbes]

When I first read this forum I expected to see some kind of solidarity between "farangs".

I didn't find any.

Don't blame your country, your embassy or your consulate.

How many people did you help today ?

If you need help tomorrow, remember how many people you did help yesterday.

Many are helped all the time. They just don't use the help wisely. I don't see anything wrong with suicide. There are only so many resources available. The authorities have to use what funds they have wisely. There is bound to be collateral damage.

I've helped many people financially and otherwise. Most often it has been in vane and actually caused me harm. But, every once in a while I'm rewarded by seeing positive results. It is those few successes that keep me helping the unfortunate. In North America and the UK there are many societies that provide help for the needy. If people are too stupid, too stubborn or too lazy to make use of help when it 's provided then there isn't much more we can do. In Thailand it is only personal families that help, and the poor in Thailand don't have the budget to do much good..

[tmd5855]

aplogies if this appears an unwelcome thread diversion but it is about depression and failing to cope.

Many things go through my mind when reading a sad tale such as this.

Were depressed back in the UK 12 years ago for about a year.

Popping seroxat every day to keep the demons in my head that tried to take over me at bay.

Problems inside family and wife pushed me to looking at the pill bottles and a large whisky on more than a few occasions.

When I put my head on the pillow at night did not care if I woke in the morning. Just wanted all my worries to go away.

Job kept me sane, now seperated from the ex, work out in Asia (Offshore) live thailand 6 years and have a dream of a partner.

That poor guy will have woken up and said today is the day............. He was probaply smiling since his torment was over.

3 years ago a friend from my old town came out here. Met a girl and married her. Bought a house then he was kicked out?

H went back the UK, max'd the credit cards, took out bank loans from a load of banks/lenders. Came back out here and bought a bar. The rest we all know.

Told a few of us he was going back the UK, He had lost the bar and ended up sleeping in one of the girls room, near walking street. He just vanished one day. Thought he had went back the UK, but his son had never seen him. To this day no one knows where he is?? Just vanished without trace??

[sillyman99]

If you're out of the UK for many years, you won't be able to walk back into immediate benefits, cos your English.

Best bet, get really drunk and do some Air rage on the way home towards the end of the flight, you'll be arrested at Heathrow, put in a nice cell at Heathrow Police Station, get taken to court and hopefully jailed.

That way you're back in the system immediately and entitled to everything !! And they can't kick you out of Jail without you having an address, so you'll get help with that too, in fact, you'll get helped with everything, get your dental and all medical problems taken care of while you're at it !

If you arrive and land with nothing, you're really screwed, you will have to pay to get a prescription etc after being out of UK for so many years, getting arrested is much better. You'll get all the help available and be back in the system immediately, but you have to do something to get a jail sentence.

Air rage is a classic and has been used by people to get immediately back into the system, a UK guy I knew did just that, it was get arrested and get a bed and be in the system, or arrive in Heathrow with no money at all and nowhere to go and no bed.

It was a no brainer for him.

He's back in Thailand now.....

Edited November 9, 2010 by sillyman99

[lomatopo]

Are any members interested in forming some sort of informal advocacy/support group for ex-Pats down on their luck? It seems like we could be doing more? I have limited organizational/leadership skills, and no experience in social work, but would be more than willing to contribute my time in order to help people like Jeff. Comments? Do organizations like this exist?

I guess my first steps would be talking with embassy staff to see what they might recommend. In Jeff's case I might have tried to track down family, and try to get him re-patriated.

[welsh1]

aplogies if this appears an unwelcome thread diversion but it is about depression and failing to cope.

Many things go through my mind when reading a sad tale such as this.

Were depressed back in the UK 12 years ago for about a year.

Popping seroxat every day to keep the demons in my head that tried to take over me at bay.

Problems inside family and wife pushed me to looking at the pill bottles and a large whisky on more than a few occasions.

When I put my head on the pillow at night did not care if I woke in the morning. Just wanted all my worries to go away.

Job kept me sane, now seperated from the ex, work out in Asia (Offshore) live thailand 6 years and have a dream of a partner.

That poor guy will have woken up and said today is the day............. He was probaply smiling since his torment was over.

3 years ago a friend from my old town came out here. Met a girl and married her. Bought a house then he was kicked out?

H went back the UK, max'd the credit cards, took out bank loans from a load of banks/lenders. Came back out here and bought a bar. The rest we all know.

Told a few of us he was going back the UK, He had lost the bar and ended up sleeping in one of the girls room, near walking street. He just vanished one day. Thought he had went back the UK, but his son had never seen him. To this day no one knows where he is?? Just vanished without trace??

myabe living on a remote island some where in Thailand with a long beard now and going by the name of Friday

[tmd5855]

For sure life has it's twists and turns, some can cope, some cannot, unless you have been there it is hard for some to understand. I always wondered how can anyone jump under a train or jump off a roof, l thought it was daft BUT when l lost my wife l learnt a big lesson and will NEVER talk a bad word about anyone who takes his own life..[/quote]

Then you know what it is like when your thoughts start drifting to strange places.

It is only when you come back to yourself that you realise the scary place you were going or just had been.

I go to sleep now wanting to wake up. When I awake, thank my God he has given me another day of life on his/her earth.

[Goinghomesoon]

A sad story. But a bit of a long shot to blame Embassy officials for not helping when we don't know if he even sought their assistance. Maybe he was one of those guys who doesn't want help, or refuses to seek it. Maybe he chose to be here and on the streets (heck I've seen it happen back home, so it probably happens here). Or yes, maybe he asked and they refused. But I don't think we can automatically assume that is what has happened.

[JurgenG]

Many are helped all the time. They just don't use the help wisely. I don't see anything wrong with suicide.

That's a personal opinion. One of my best friend comitted suicide a couple of years ago and I took it as a personal failure, I wasn't able to help ...

There are only so many resources available. The authorities have to use what funds they have wisely. There is bound to be collateral damage.

I'm not talking about help from the "society" I'm just talking about solidarity.

I come from "socialist" Europe, I guess it's my own problem ....

[IMA_FARANG]

Probably upset by the falling Dollar/Baht exchange rate.

That was intended as a joke, but maybe it isn't all that funny, was it?

But as for your question...what will the U.S. embessy do if you are out of money in Thailand and need their help...unfortunately the answer is not very much.

They do NOT provide free tickets home, and if they do send you back to the U.S. it is only usually AFTER they get confirmation that there is someone (relative or whatever) who will pay the fare BEFORE you travel.

And they WON'T lend you money unless the amount is already confirmed in the U.S. or vouched for by a relative or friend.

Now, somebody from the U.S. embessy....post a rebuttal here and prove me wrong.

(Some years ago I had a friend who was mugged and robbed in Bangkok. The injuries put him in to a Thai hspital. He then went to the embessy for help, since all his money had been stolen. They were willing to help him AFTER someone in the U.S. guarenteed the money for the fare AND he settled all his hospital bill from the treatment for the injuries he sustained in the mugging. Nothing before that.)

[MrRichard2009]

Probably upset by the falling Dollar/Baht exchange rate.

That was intended as a joke, but maybe it isn't all that funny, was it?

But as for your question...what will the U.S. embessy do if you are out of money in Thailand and need their help...unfortunately the answer is not very much.

They do NOT provide free tickets home, and if they do send you back to the U.S. it is only usually AFTER they get confirmation that there is someone (relative or whatever) who will pay the fare BEFORE you travel.

And they WON'T lend you money unless the amount is already confirmed in the U.S. or vouched for by a relative or friend.

Now, somebody from the U.S. embessy....post a rebuttal here and prove me wrong.

(Some years ago I had a friend who was mugged and robbed in Bangkok. The injuries put him in to a Thai hspital. He then went to the embessy for help, since all his money had been stolen. They were willing to help him AFTER someone in the U.S. guarenteed the money for the fare AND he settled all his hospital bill from the treatment for the injuries he sustained in the mugging. Nothing before that.)

Your correct they are not the welfare office for broke tourists.

[Tonto21]

Firstly, I feel very sad for this guy, I didn't know him and I can't really imagine the nightmare this bloke must have gone though to end his life. For an individual to over-ride his or her basic instinct to live and pull the pin....He must have gone though a living hel_l.

What I find the most upsetting is what was going on in his head to see no other way out.

Rest in Peace Mate! There but for the grace of God go I.

Maybe we can all learn something from this, and not be to quick to dismiss others....maybe.

My first post on TV “should I stay or should I go now” touched on the subject of the dream turning into a nightmare.