I can understand well people's wish for privacy, but some take it too far.

For instance, I am currently working from an internet site from which I find free-lance writing jobs. They are based in the US and as such are subject to all sorts of big brother stuff, including ID verification of the people who use the site. The site are obliged to conform to prevent issues with tax and money laundering etc.

The way that some go on, you'd that it was demanded that a stranger moves into their home. They are kicking off massively about being asked for a passport as though it is a massive violation of their rights, of course they could just refuse and leave the site). Of course, they seem to forget that they hand over their passport to a complete stranger each time they pass through an airport.

It''s usually the same kind of people who would scream riots violation when CCTV cameras are installed, only to complain about a lack of security when somebody gets attacked.

Or they'll complain about schemes such as the national database, only then to complain that the criminal next door wasn't picked up sooner because police were unaware of him.

I think some people just like to complain because it gives them something to do and makes them happy.

Oh and here I thought you were going to talk about people who think its all a masssive alien invasion in conspiracy with the heads of state of every nation on earth with the goal to enslave all the women as sex slaves and neuter all the men and send them off to some planet for slave mining.

You mean to say that isn't true?

Oh and here I thought you were going to talk about people who think its all a masssive alien invasion in conspiracy with the heads of state of every nation on earth with the goal to enslave all the women as sex slaves and neuter all the men and send them off to some planet for slave mining.

I'd no idea you could have the Eagle comic delivered to Koh Phangan.

For instance, I am currently working from an internet site from which I find free-lance writing jobs. They are based in the US and as such are subject to all sorts of big brother stuff, including ID verification of the people who use the site. The site are obliged to conform to prevent issues with tax and money laundering etc.

The way that some go on, you'd that it was demanded that a stranger moves into their home. They are kicking off massively about being asked for a passport as though it is a massive violation of their rights, of course they could just refuse and leave the site). Of course, they seem to forget that they hand over their passport to a complete stranger each time they pass through an airport.

Well tin foil aside ...that is an odd site. Even the US govt sites do not ask for a passport.

Also I do not consider the officers working at the airport hired & screened in person to work there strangers.

That is after all the function of the passport to physically pass the gates to depart or enter countries not web sites.

I can understand folks being reluctant to release such info to a faceless web site. If your not versed in security issues you may not even be able to tell the difference between a phishing site & the real deal.

I understand you know & trust this site that is good but even paypal has had some beautiful knock off sites done that look just like theirs yet its sole purpose is to harvest numbers & identities.

As for rights? Well it is all a slippery slope isn't it.

PS: if you think cctv cameras are high zoot you should see google maps these days with the street view.

If you know someones street address for most of the US you can virtually walk up their driveway on these maps & look around.

If these are the free to the public tools it does make you wonder how much further the technology stretches.

I live in a very rural area & after this years census & them GPS painting our driveway I can now see our house too. Surprising....

I didn't say they asked for a passport, I said they asked for photo ID.

They are required to ask for ID for money laundering purposes, similar sites have been used in the past for money laundering purposes. I don't think you understand the nature of the site, it is an employment site money is exchanged through that site. If it was to fall prey to a phishing scam then somebody asking for ID would be the lest of their problems.

I didn't say they asked for a passport, I said they asked for photo ID.

They are required to ask for ID for money laundering purposes, similar sites have been used in the past for money laundering purposes. I don't think you understand the nature of the site, it is an employment site money is exchanged through that site. If it was to fall prey to a phishing scam then somebody asking for ID would be the lest of their problems.

Sorry I read your original to say....

They are kicking off massively about being asked for a passport as though it is a massive violation of their rights

OK, my mistake.

In this case the photo ID happened to be a passport because it's the ID they had.

And I was talking about CCTV, not google.

This is just going to be a typical pointless OTB thread where the subject itself doesn't get discussed, isn't it? I forgot where I was then for a minute.

Moonrakers, I used to go to a political forum in the USA (makes this place look peaceful & well-behaved) and opposition to a national ID was the only issue that both sides agreed on. For some reason they are crazy about privacy back home. I've lived in countries that have issued me a national ID and it's more helpful than anything else. Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Well I think that's much of my point. I can't see what harm it does and if anything it will probably make the world a safer place. People just seem to scream that their rights are being violated for no particular reason.

I remember a while ago there was a thread about single guys being searched on their way to S.E. Asia to help protect the kiddies. People were screaming that they were being profiled to which my response was: No shit Sherlock. They can go sifting through the dirty undies in my bag if they really wanted to because there's nothing in there of interest. Just as long as they don't keep me for too long. Even if one child is protected then the whole thing is surely worth it.

I don't quite understand why people think governments would take a particular interest in them anyway, it's quite arrogant to think that might be more than just a blip. A major international business man or politician might have genuine cause for concern but the average Joe is likely to have nothing of interest unless you are doing something that you shouldn't be.

To me it is just protesting for the sake of protesting.

It's important to remember that the founding of the USA was established on very different principles than many other nations. The crafters of the US nation and its constitution took it as an article of faith that all government is by it's very nature both corrupt and prone to tyranny. That most of the protections (including a right to privacy) that US citizens have enjoyed are being eroded, both broadly and quickly, is of grave concern to many . Sadly that "many" has not yet reached a critical mass to put an end to increasingly officious and downright illegal behaviour taken by the government against the citizens everyday.

It's important to remember that the founding of the USA was established on very different principles than many other nations. The crafters of the US nation and its constitution took it as an article of faith that all government is by it's very nature both corrupt and prone to tyranny. That most of the protections (including a right to privacy) that US citizens have enjoyed are being eroded, both broadly and quickly, is of grave concern to many . Sadly that "many" has not yet reached a critical mass to put an end to increasingly officious and downright illegal behaviour taken by the government against the citizens everyday.

Go to the head of the class.

On the one hand, I agree wholeheartedly with koheesti and Moonrakers......things like a national id card, or profiling for paedophiles are ok: if you've got nothing to hide, then why worry.

On the other hand, I can see what LRB and Flying see; an erosion of rights. A slippery slope.

Constitutions and Bills of Rights everywhere are designed to protect the (otherwise powerless) masses.

Power currupts. Ultimate power currupts ultimately.

On the profiling sideline...... koheesti, what would you say if the authorities started profiling people for breaches of a law that you disagreed with? Marijuana use, for example. What if you fit the profile and were constantly harrassed?

And no, Moonrakers, I'm not a troll.....some people should reflect on their own biases drawn from a Daily Mail article and their jump to a conclusion about any Muslim that has the audacity to make a protest against the military.

Ultimately at the end when it is too late you will ask....Who is watching the watchers?

On the profiling sideline...... koheesti, what would you say if the authorities started profiling people for breaches of a law that you disagreed with? Marijuana use, for example. What if you fit the profile and were constantly harrassed?

I would probably laugh because I'm not much of a pot smoker and don't fit the profile.

I get harrassed all the time in some bars here in Dubai. apparently I fit the profile of the guy who has $300 to waste on a hooker (I don't). Even when I dress rattier than usual they still grab at me. I'm told it's because I'm white.

On the profiling sideline...... koheesti, what would you say if the authorities started profiling people for breaches of a law that you disagreed with? Marijuana use, for example. What if you fit the profile and were constantly harrassed?

I would probably laugh because I'm not much of a pot smoker and don't fit the profile.

I get harrassed all the time in some bars here in Dubai. apparently I fit the profile of the guy who has $300 to waste on a hooker (I don't). Even when I dress rattier than usual they still grab at me. I'm told it's because I'm white.

I'm npt saying you're anything of a pot smoker...I used the example because I know you disagree with the law.

You missed the point of the question, although you gave an example of a constant harrassment, albeit one you can say "no" to or walk away from.

What if you legally had to stop and answer all the hooker's questions, show documents, accompany her to her office......

The point of the questions is....we both agree that profiling for paedophiles would be ok, even good, even if it occassionaly affected ourselves, we'd be taking one for the team and wouldn't mind too much because it's for a good cause. Right?

And who cares about a child molester's rights? I certainly don't.

Personally, I don't agree with the marijuana laws of most Western countries, and I could potentially fit the possible profile, and so I'd have a little bit less enthusiasm for profiling for pot smokers if it was to occur.

BTW, (What was the prop 18 outcome? I haven't heard about it since before the elections),

I'm npt saying you're anything of a pot smoker...I used the example because I know you disagree with the law.

You missed the point of the question, although you gave an example of a constant harrassment, albeit one you can say "no" to or walk away from.

What if you legally had to stop and answer all the hooker's questions, show documents, accompany her to her office......

I understand and it would get old real fast and suck.

That said, some people deserved to be hassled. I remember once seeing a black kid walking down the street in Florida wearing a black t-shirt with big white letters, fuc_k THE POLICE. Sure, it's a rap song and freedom of speech covers wearing nasty t-shirts - just don't bitch and whine when the cops stop you.

The point of the questions is....we both agree that profiling for paedophiles would be ok, even good, even if it occassionaly affected ourselves, we'd be taking one for the team and wouldn't mind too much because it's for a good cause. Right?

And who cares about a child molester's rights? I certainly don't.

Personally, I don't agree with the marijuana laws of most Western countries, and I could potentially fit the possible profile, and so I'd have a little bit less enthusiasm for profiling for pot smokers if it was to occur.

BTW, (What was the prop 18 outcome? I haven't heard about it since before the elections),

I prefer Western laws on pot to those from places like Thailand or Dubai.

The prop failed. I'm not sure how though.

National Opt Out Day coming soon:

http://www.optoutday.com/

@#%&suckers! Every one of'em.

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

When I'm Emporer, they'll be among the first to go to the wall.

National Opt Out Day coming soon:

http://www.optoutday.com/

I'm a fence sitter on this one.

Is it very intrusive: YES!

Is it necessary: Quite probably!

National Opt Out Day coming soon:

http://www.optoutday.com/

I'm a fence sitter on this one.

Is it very intrusive: YES!

Is it necessary: Quite probably!

I'm guessing you haven't travelled in the USA lately. These people and the organization they work for are an an abomination. I'd shoot every f'ing last one of them if I could. Even before the bankers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/12/travel.screening/index.html

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

When I'm Emperor, they'll be among the first to go to the wall.

Geez ......Anti Terrorism..I agree with the wall

from your link

(Nov. 6, 2010 ): TSOs have a long, if anecdotal, history of showing extra interest in attractive women. At dual-device checkpoints I have seen TSOs urging teenage girls and young women into the nud_e-o-Scope while middle-aged men like me were allowed to use the conventional mag without complaint. This is de facto profiling, of course, but not in the name of air security.

After reading.....

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

My wife wishes to go to the US.

I think NOT.

Posting in OTB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFfJqhOFdFg

Moonrakers, I used to go to a political forum in the USA (makes this place look peaceful & well-behaved) and opposition to a national ID was the only issue that both sides agreed on. For some reason they are crazy about privacy back home. I've lived in countries that have issued me a national ID and it's more helpful than anything else. Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Totally agree.

In Britain there is a fanatical bunch against introducing any sort of universal ID. My driving licence is still a bit of green paper with no photo. In Iran, Libya, Vietnam and other places I have had a work permit and/or residence permit with photo and other information on it. When stopped for any reason and this is produced, there is usually a smile and 'That's alright, Sir' and I'm on my way. Without it - a few hours in the local nick. I always carry good identification.

Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Well I think that's much of my point. I can't see what harm it does and if anything it will probably make the world a safer place. People just seem to scream that their rights are being violated for no particular reason.

I remember a while ago there was a thread about single guys being searched on their way to S.E. Asia to help protect the kiddies. People were screaming that they were being profiled to which my response was: No shit Sherlock. They can go sifting through the dirty undies in my bag if they really wanted to because there's nothing in there of interest. Just as long as they don't keep me for too long. Even if one child is protected then the whole thing is surely worth it.

I don't quite understand why people think governments would take a particular interest in them anyway, it's quite arrogant to think that might be more than just a blip. A major international business man or politician might have genuine cause for concern but the average Joe is likely to have nothing of interest unless you are doing something that you shouldn't be.

To me it is just protesting for the sake of protesting.

There's two things to be worried about; perhaps three.

First of all, in order to increase their performance measures, and take their detection rates past 100%, the forces of law and order might choose to solve some crimes that have not yet been committed, and convict you of something that you have not done. Of course, if, like me, you have great faith in the process of the law, then this will not be a worry.

Secondly, since there is a 1 in a million chance of some random piece of evidence matching something from a crime scene, then statistically, from time to time, the wrong person is going to get randomly linked to a crime scene.

Thirdly, they may find some other material while carrying out their unwarranted "random" search and decide to waste hours or days of your time wasting taxpayer's money pursuing some minor infringement - say a tacho card that showed you had exceeded the speed limit, or some DVDs that you may have bought in good faith but turned out to contravene some intellectual property regulations.

My career as a tobacco-smuggler ended when I was 18; I was hitching back from Germany, and I got a lift off a lorry-driver headed for Peterborough. He said "Can you take this extra carton of cigarettes through for me?" I held up a box of cigars I'd bought for my dear old father. Anyway, not to worry. I put the cigars in the glove box, and we traipsed through customs with our carrier bags of duty free.

"Mind if I take a look in the truck sir?"

"Not at all"

Straight to the glove box "what about these cigars then"

"They're mine, duty paid in the EC" - unfortunately, I was anticipating the "Free movement of goods and services" act by several years, and the officer made a point of wasting twenty minutes searching the rest of the truck. He let me keep the cigars, though, but I reckoned next time I might not be so lucky and I gave up a possibly-lucrative career in smuggling - it would be too easy t find a customs official or policeman with less of a sense of humour, tolerance and natural justice.

SC

Moonrakers, I used to go to a political forum in the USA (makes this place look peaceful & well-behaved) and opposition to a national ID was the only issue that both sides agreed on. For some reason they are crazy about privacy back home. I've lived in countries that have issued me a national ID and it's more helpful than anything else. Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Totally agree.

In Britain there is a fanatical bunch against introducing any sort of universal ID. My driving licence is still a bit of green paper with no photo. In Iran, Libya, Vietnam and other places I have had a work permit and/or residence permit with photo and other information on it. When stopped for any reason and this is produced, there is usually a smile and 'That's alright, Sir' and I'm on my way. Without it - a few hours in the local nick. I always carry good identification.

You are living in the past, with your paper-only driving licence. Mine shares a photo with my passport, so they can print a new up to date one off without me submitting a picture.

I am not sure how reliable the biometrics they use in passports are now - whether they are good enough to identify you from a picture. If so, then that could be a big constraint for those amongst us who like to disappear and re-invent themselves as someone new, for whatever reasonable and perfectly legitimate reason they may have. I was surprised that this could be done so effectively with finger prints.

SC

Moonrakers, I used to go to a political forum in the USA (makes this place look peaceful & well-behaved) and opposition to a national ID was the only issue that both sides agreed on. For some reason they are crazy about privacy back home. I've lived in countries that have issued me a national ID and it's more helpful than anything else. Personally, I don' see what it hurts.

Totally agree.

In Britain there is a fanatical bunch against introducing any sort of universal ID. My driving licence is still a bit of green paper with no photo. In Iran, Libya, Vietnam and other places I have had a work permit and/or residence permit with photo and other information on it. When stopped for any reason and this is produced, there is usually a smile and 'That's alright, Sir' and I'm on my way. Without it - a few hours in the local nick. I always carry good identification.

You are living in the past, with your paper-only driving licence. Mine shares a photo with my passport, so they can print a new up to date one off without me submitting a picture.

I am not sure how reliable the biometrics they use in passports are now - whether they are good enough to identify you from a picture. If so, then that could be a big constraint for those amongst us who like to disappear and re-invent themselves as someone new, for whatever reasonable and perfectly legitimate reason they may have. I was surprised that this could be done so effectively with finger prints.

SC

When I got my new US passport a couple years ago I also opted for the Passport Card - which is credit card-size version with a tiny radio card inside. It is good for international travel between the US and Canada/Mexico/and parts of the Caribbean. I use it as a regular ID in other countries.

National Opt Out Day coming soon:

http://www.optoutday.com/

@#%&suckers! Every one of'em.

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

When I'm Emporer, they'll be among the first to go to the wall.

This is an interesting article and there are many others about Obama, the ex Homeland Security head and the body scanner company

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/21/body-scanner-ceo-obama-india/