One Year Visa: Is It Really Worth It?

[Nonja]

Okay, I am off to Bangkok tomorrow to try and get a one year visa. This is my summary of the information I can find. I may very well have made some mistakes here. I would appreciate being corrected, if I have. Having summarised it all, I am feeling quite despondent. Is it really worth it? It seems a very unwelcoming country from an official viewpoint. All I want to do is live quietly, mind my own business, and pay my way.

__________________________________________

Thai One-Year Non-Immigrant Non-Working Visa 2010

The multi-entry Non-Immigrant ‘O’ visa is easier to process than the Non-Immigrant ‘O-A’ (retirement visa) because the Non-Immigrant ‘O’ does not require a medical certificate or a criminal background report. Also, it is said that you can only apply for a Non O-A in your home country and that you must apply in person. Whether this is true or not, I do not know.

________________________________________________________

To start with, be aware of any public holidays which apply in any of the countries involved in this convoluted process. For example, if you go to the Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur to apply for an extension, you will have to take Ramadan into consideration.

Be aware of specialized office hours. The Thai Consular Office in Bangkok only accepts visa applications between 09.30-11.30 and visas are only available for collection between 14.30-16.30 hrs.

Be over 50 years of age to be eligible for this visa.

Be patient.

Be prepared for bewildering complexities which make no sense whatsoever.

Be prepared for the fact that your application can be turned down at will, even if you are eminently eligible and have provided all the appropriate paperwork. Under Thai law, no reason needs to be given if your application is refused. The issuing of a visa is entirely at the discretion of the issuing officer.

I think I would say at this stage get 6 additional copies of all documents (4 for the Thai Embassy and 2 for you). In the presence of a notary, sign each page, and get each and every page of every copy notarized. That includes forms that you usually think would not need to be notarized, such as bank statements, police reports and medical certificates. Not just the originals need to be notarized, but the copies also. It is not good enough just to make copies of the original notarized certificate.

____________________________________________________

Prepare the following documentation:

Visa application form duly filled out. See attachment below:

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1321.php?depid=220

One original and 4 copies. Get some copies for yourself at the same time.

Applicant’s passport valid for not less than 6 months.

Four copies of your passport.

4 passport sized photographs (4 x 6 cm) of the applicant, taken within the past 6 months. Put your full name on the back of every photo. What the hell, get each photo signed and dated by you and a notary, as well.

Original and copy of return flight ticket to Thailand. Get a few extra copies just in case.

Copy of a house rental contract. Throw in a few extra copies. (Rental contracts don’t actually exist here regarding domestic condominiums rented from Thai families, although I would imagine if you are staying long-term in a serviced apartment you might be able to use whatever documentation they provide instead. For me, we have drawn up a sort of statement, translated into Thai, which we are hoping will work. If you are living with a Thai family, as I am, you will need something which provides names, address, contact numbers, etc. and has lots of stamps from various authorities on it.

_______________________________

It’s a good idea also to have:

A personal data form: presumably a CV. Include a few extra copies.

Evidence of a Thai bank account. These are somewhat difficult to come by, as you need the Immigration Visa to get one. Ideally, you will have 800,000BHT on deposit and will have evidence that this money has come from outside Thailand and has been in your account for at least three months. No interest is paid on deposits by foreigners. You will also have a Statutory Declaration (Income Certificate) notarized by the Australian Embassy in Bangkok (nowhere else will do) that you have a monthly income of at least 65,000BHT. Ensure all specified amounts are in BHT or otherwise you will be sent home to fill out your forms a second time and have them notarized again. ‘It is suggested that you have a copy of your bank statement showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht. In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required.’ Get copies of everything. Get every copy notarised.

Let’s get those figures in perspective (December, 2010).

800,000BHT: $26,900AUD

65,000BHT: $2,183AUD monthly

Or a combination of the above. Or both an 800,000BHT deposit in a savings account and a 65,000BHT monthly income.

There are problems with having large deposits in Thai banks:

1. No interest for foreigners

2. The 50% devaluation of the Thai BHT in 1997. Thailand went through five finance ministers in 1996. ‘The Asian Financial Crisis was a period of financial crisis that gripped much of Asia beginning in July 1997, and raised fears of a worldwide economic meltdown due to financial contagion. The crisis started in Thailand with the financial collapse of the Thai baht caused by the decision of the Thai government to float the baht, after exhaustive efforts to support it in the face of a severe financial over-extension that was in part real estate driven. At the time, Thailand had acquired a burden of foreign debt that made the country effectively bankrupt even before the collapse of its currency.’ There are rumours another devaluation is possible.

3. Deposits are unsecured

4. You are effectively tied to the branch you opened your account with. You cannot deal with another branch of the same bank elsewhere without difficulty and additional cost.

5. Cheques will take up to 60 days to clear, even if they are government authorized cheques such as overseas pensions from America and Britain. Even if you have been receiving these cheques for 20 years, they will still take up to 60 days to clear.

A medical certificate, certifying, among other things, that you are not suffering from leprosy, elephantiasis or tertiary syphilis. ‘A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535): (certificate shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notarised by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic or consular mission).’ This means that, if you apply in Kuala Lumpur, you will need to see a doctor there and somehow get it notarised by your own embassy: you may be able to get it notarised in the country where the application is submitted: I am not clear whether it has to be notarised in Bangkok or not. It is suggested you use a Thai doctor to complete the form. Surely it would not be necessary to fly to KL, see a Thai doctor there, get the form completed, fly back to Bangkok, get the form notarized by the Australian Embassy, and fly back to KL to continue the visa application process. Surely not. Four copies plus original, each notarized.

‘A letter of verification issued from the country of his or her nationality or residence stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notarised by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic or consular mission)’. Get copies. Get them notarised. The term ‘notary organs’ is a most interesting one.

Other criteria:

1.2 Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).

1.3 Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicant’s nationality or residence.

1.4 Having the nationality of or residence in the country where applicant’s application is submitted.

1.5 Not having prohibitive diseases (Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 B.E. 2535.

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Over and above the travel costs overseas, hotel costs, visa costs, notaries’ fees etc. you will usually also need to pay an immigration agent to walk you through the process on an annual basis: this can cost anything between 10,000BHT ($336AUD) and 20,000BHT ($700AUD). Every year.

When it is estimated that Chiang Mai alone has 20,000 expatriates living here, one can only speculate on the flow-on effect to the Thai economy of:

• Substantial interest-free bank account deposits
• Visa runs across the border every 3 months
• Regular return flights in and out of Thailand
• Immigration agents: annual fees
• ‘Guaranteed’ visa applications
• Photocopying and printing perhaps 50 pages, on a regular basis, every time you apply
• Cost of notarization of every page

Obviously, the system is so complex that it cannot possibly work efficiently or fairly. Additionally, the rules change on a regular basis. The rules seem to vary from embassy to embassy, and the granting of a visa is entirely at the discretion of the officer involved, without recourse in any way. There are rules, and then there are no rules. It is a most interesting situation.

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Having gone through all this, if your application is successful, what exactly will you have achieved?

‘Upon arrival in Thailand, open your bank account (no problem with a Non Immigrant ‘O’ visa) and deposit your 800,000 THB. After about 75 days, go to Immigration and apply for your one year retirement extension.’

However, you really won’t have achieved very much at all. Every 90 days you will have to report to the authorities, and at the end of the year you will have to go through the whole application process all over again. Every time you renew, the process gets more complex and more demanding.

• Transit visa
• Tourist visa
• Non immigrant visa-B
• Non immigrant visa-ED
• Non immigrant visa-O-A
• Non immigrant visa-F
• Non immigrant visa-O

Edited December 19, 2010 by Maestro
For eawsier reading, changed font format to default, deleted multiple blank lines, etc.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Where are you coming from? Upcountry in Thailand some place?

If what you are looking for is a one-year extension to the Non-O visa you already have, you do that at your "local" Thai Immigration office, NOT in Bangkok unless you live in the Bangkok catchment area.

The process for a Retirement extension of a Non-O visa is actually fairly simple.

From all the info you listed, looks more like a person is/was/will apply for an O-A visa in their country of residence, not in Thailand.

Or, am I just misreading your post.

Mac

[beechguy]

You appear to be making it far more complicated than it really is. And, by the way, you will be applying for a one year "Extension of Stay" in Bangkok, not a visa.

Edited December 19, 2010 by beechguy

[Colabamumbai]

Yes you are certainly complicating things, and the reason for your post is? Get on track.

[Lite Beer]

Apply at your local Immigration Office. It is simple.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

[Jingthing]

Thailand is relatively welcoming to retirees compared to most countries. But the welcome is very short term, one year at a time, while a number of other countries offering retirement programs (often at lower financial requirements than Thailand) offer a defined path towards permanent residence and sometimes even citizenship. It certainly isn't the best offer in the world, but nowhere near the worst. One special feature of the Thailand offer is the bank account qualifying method, most countries that offer retirement visa options don't offer that. However, sometimes they offer similar methods such as residency based on investments and/or real estate purchases.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

I do not know where or what you are talking about - perhaps you could post reasonable questions rather than trying for a short story. You information appears highly suspect as there is no Consular office issuing visas in Bangkok.

The fact is that a retirement extension of stay is about the easiest thing in the world to apply for and get if you qualify. Proof of financials and a few photo copies are it. A Tm.7 form plus 1,900 baht. Total time a few hours for proof/paperwork/application/approval. Every 90 days a mail or in person or send someone to submit a TM.47 address report is the only other requirement.

[Jingthing]

Yes but people can start the retirement extension process at some Thai immigration offices including Bangkok without an existing O visa. I agree the OP needs more focus. I totally agree once you're in the system and you learn the rules (not as odious as the OP indicates) it can indeed become quite easy and routine. Cheers.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[sarahsbloke]

You have confused a 1 year Retirement VISA with a 1 year multiple entry non-immigrant '0' VISA and a 1 year extension of stay due to retirement.

1 year Retirement VISA needs you to show 800,000bht in a bank account of country of origin (or income) and reporting to Thai immigration every 90 days (you can do it by post)

1 year multiple entry non immigrant 'o' visa requires the VISA fee (100UKP) and border runs every 90 days, no paperwork checks.

1 year extension of stay due to retirement needs you to show 800,000bht in Thai bank account (or income) and reporting to Thai immigration every 90 days (you can do it by post), no paperwork checks.

I've had

a retirement extension of 1 year

a 1 year multiple entry non immigrant 'o' VISA

Nothing notarized, no police check, no medical check

NO difficult paperwork, just a bit of photocopying at 1bht per page.

Easy to get Thai bank account, even with a 14 day VISA on entry, proof of money (letter from bank manager 100bht SCB or 200bht Bangkok Bank) plus photocopies of your bank book.

Rental contract .... not needed, photo copy of house book (Tabien Ban) plus photocopy of ID card of owner (both signed by owner)

Your post has almost every single fact wrong!

Edited December 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[JusMe]

Your post has almost every single fact wrong!

And that's almost an understatement!

Another example, regarding foreigners receiving interest on bank deposits: just checked my savings account with Bangkok Bank, and I've been credited with 158.86 baht for a recent savings period. Can't remember if it's three months, but that's interest received on my bank deposit. And I'm a foreigner.

Go through the short story and find something that's NOT a troll.

[steve187]

Really really hard to read/follow op

[harrry]

However you must apply for the extension in the district in which you live. It is no good going to Bangkok if you live in Udon

[sarahsbloke]

However you must apply for the extension in the district in which you live. It is no good going to Bangkok if you live in Udon

The OP states he is off to Bangkok to get a VISA ....... not an extension.

He clearly doesn't know the difference between a 'VISA' and an 'Extension of Stay'

(or anything else from his post)

Edited December 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Jingthing]

There were actual a number of specific points that did reflect the truth, but overall gist of it was over the top. If the OP is really seeking guidance, perhaps a rewrite with more specific questions tailored to your actual visa strategy is in order.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

Nonja, your post is a whole lot of nonsensical gibberish. Some examples:

“I am off to Bangkok tomorrow to try and get a one year visa”

Off from where? From New York? From Timbuktu? Anyway, you get a “one year visa”, ie a visa valid for travel to Thailand within one year from the date of its issue, from a Thai consulate and these are all outside Thailand, not in Bangkok.

“The Thai Consular Office in Bangkok only accepts visa applications between 09.30-11.30 and visas are only available for collection between 14.30-16.30 hrs.”

There is no “Thai Consular Office in Bangkok”. There is the Department of Consular Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but you won’t get your “one year visa” there.

“I would say at this stage get 6 additional copies of all documents (4 for the Thai Embassy and 2 for you). In the presence of a notary, sign each page, and get each and every page of every copy notarized”

Do as you please, but don’t advise other people to do such unnecessary things when applying for a visa. Not all consulates need four copies or the same documents.

“Visa application form duly filled out. See attachment below:

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1321.php?depid=220”

Most consulates have their own forms, on their own websites, and do not accept the form on the MFA website.

“Evidence of a Thai bank account.”

This is not needed when applying for a visa.

[Maestro]

...If the OP is really seeking guidance, perhaps a rewrite with more specific questions tailored to your actual visa strategy is in order.

The OP had no questions. The only thing that came close to being a questions was this:

This is my summary of the information I can find. I may very well have made some mistakes here. I would appreciate being corrected, if I have.

He has received the corrections he asked for.

[Jimi007]

Wow, the OP is just a bit misguided and it seems somewhat lazy. I easily got 3 back to back O-A visas in the USA. Yes I did have to go and have my to doctor fill and and sign a medical certificate. I have medical insurance, so that was $15 US for my copay to see my doctor and maybe an hour of my time including drive time. I stopped by my count court house and got a copy of my criminal record, the first two years were free, then I think $5 and maybe a half an hour of my time. I then did have to call my bank and have them send me a bank statement and a letter of guarantee, 10 minutes on the phone. Some Thai Consulates require the copies to be notarized, some don't. I dealt with both. I did the visa by mail all three times. The past few years I just get an earnings statement for my Embassy or Consulate outreach visit and a few copies of things from my passport: ID page visa page, last extension page, departure card, 90 days reports and if using an earnings statement, a copy of your ATM card. I just transfered my visa to my new passport Friday and it was busy but it took less than an hour and cost me 15 Baht for the copies. And no other fees including my 90 day checkin. Seems pretty easy to me... Try retiring in another country. The USA, forget it, unless you are a citizen from there.

[glegolo]

Nonja!! Are you for real????? I think that you did it the wrong way?? You should

go to you embassy webpage and READ. And than ask questions. Put it all together

and check up if it is OK.....

It is NOT complicated at all. When I came here just ask a couple of questions and it was all chrystalclear.

And Thailand is NOT especially unwelcome-country VISA-wise. It is exactly or even harder in the US or

Europe to get a VISA there..

Glegolo

Edited December 20, 2010 by glegolo