Phuket Chief Exec

[stuandchris]

This might be better off in the visa section but it comes from the Cheif Exec in Phuket.

He is pushing for compulsary health insurance and 800,000 in the bank at all times, not just three months.

It seems there is a whole 40 expats in Thai hospitals with no funds and this is too many, forget the thousands of myannmar then.

quoted article deleted as it is from a source that cannot be quoted.

[Mario2008]

Above post has been edited as the forum rules do not allow to quote certain news sources.

[Jingthing]

Many retired expats over a certain age can't purchase health insurance for any price and there is also the matter that even younger expats can't buy insurance that covers preexisting conditions.

My personal opinion about this is that although it is no doubt a problem, the majority of retirees who develop serious health problems here and can't afford to pay or have insurance cover issues either manage to repatriate or they die fairly quickly here for lack of decent care. So, I think this Phuket man is overreacting.

Ideally, it would good if the government offered/required if uncovered, a retired expat health plan, but we all know that isn't going to happen. Before you bite my head off, it isn't unheard of for governments to offer a way for retired expats to buy into some kind of government system.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[LivinLOS]

Many retired expats over a certain age can't purchase health insurance for any price and there is also the matter that even younger expats can't buy insurance that covers preexisting conditions.

Exactly.. Its just a vague enenforceable thought that popped out of his head before it was actually analyzed or considered..

Resident expats shouldnt be using travel insurance and medical health insurance often isnt possible or riddled with gaps for many with conditions. I am only young but with multiple plates and pins, previous MRSA etc, the exclusions list on a policy starts to make you wonder if its worth the effort.

But dont worry.. It wont happen and the whole thing will be forgotten.

[barka]

I agree..i dont think this will happen and if it does it will take a long time before they can enforce it..carry on with your life retirees..have a merry xmas and happy new year...be happy

[Jingthing]

Another point about the idea to require a minimum of 800K baht year round. I really think only a small minority of people are using loans for that purpose. It would be easy to crack down on abusers by actually examining the bank books and requiring documentation of unusual large drains. For example if the day after you got your extension your balance went from 850K to 100K it would indeed look dodgy, but not if you could prove you bought a car! Again, this idea is a big overreaction.

[schlog]

Many retired expats over a certain age can't purchase health insurance for any price and there is also the matter that even younger expats can't buy insurance that covers preexisting conditions.

Exactly.. Its just a vague enenforceable thought that popped out of his head before it was actually analyzed or considered..

Resident expats shouldnt be using travel insurance and medical health insurance often isnt possible or riddled with gaps for many with conditions. I am only young but with multiple plates and pins, previous MRSA etc, the exclusions list on a policy starts to make you wonder if its worth the effort.

But dont worry.. It wont happen and the whole thing will be forgotten.

+1

[Jingthing]

Yeah, but some nervous nellies are probably putting their condos on the market as we post, and I'm not sure I would blame them.

[ESB7]

Well, why should hospitols that are either state or privatley owned pay medical care for someone that hasnt paid tax here or wont purchase BUPA etc.........not nice but if you cant afford to retire somewhere with appropriate funds/insurance in place then you are best off in you natural country....I wish the UK would introduce something similar rather than having half the world going there for abortions and HIV/TB treatment as they cant afford it where they are originally from..

[stuandchris]

Ok I can afford to pay my hospital bills and it will be less in the long run than BUPA etc, I also don't need 800,000 in the bank I have a pension.

The point is times are hard for a lot of people here and the 'better' expats try to stay in the rules, this just makes things harder for them.

It strikes me as another shot in the foot, they only want the mega rich here.

As I was told in immigration one day, spend your money and go home.

Lets have your money and give no service back, the Thai way.

[chiang mai]

I wonder is the CEO's message is in any way related to this issue?

Regardless, I for one would see it as being quite difficult to effectively implement such a plan in Phuket only and it's hard to imagine this concept being rolled out nationwide.

[kenny999]

At the moment you can get a retirement visa through the back door, no money in the bank etc 25000 bht how do I know this I was offered this service which I declined as I already have the visa, so if these new changes should ever come in there will still be the back door option but maybe it will cost a little bit more..

[69690jay]

In my opinion i would like to see only responsible ex-pats who can afford to live here.

800,000B in the bank is hardly mega rich?

For those who abuse the system send them packing, it's long over do.

Can't believe you compared the underprivileged from Myanmar to Farangs who can't afford a BUPA Health insurance plan and 800,000B for a retirement visa! They work long hours most everyday for peanuts! building the villas, cleaning the villas, cutting your grass, serving you in restaurants and more, allowing you to live in your villa that maybe you could not afford in your native country.. Congratulations to the Thai government for giving them Medicare, in lieu of a descent wage. Most alien workers from Myanmar live in deplorable conditions sending most of there earnings home to support families.

Ok I can afford to pay my hospital bills and it will be less in the long run than BUPA etc, I also don't need 800,000 in the bank I have a pension.

The point is times are hard for a lot of people here and the 'better' expats try to stay in the rules, this just makes things harder for them.

It strikes me as another shot in the foot, they only want the mega rich here.

As I was told in immigration one day, spend your money and go home.

Lets have your money and give no service back, the Thai way.

[Jingthing]

There's a huge flaw in the 800K change idea. What about the thousands already in the system who are six months into their current extension, for example, with a balance as normal sub 800K? Meeting this change would be impossible for their next extension, all such people would have to start over.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[barka]

i think the present systen for a retire ment visa is fair..if you dont have this money eg ...800.000 bht or a monthly sum ot 65.ooo bht in the present time with inflation and the strong bht...you need every bit of this money just to survive.....as far as insurance..it is up to the person to insure or not.. certainly accident insurance is worth taking... i personally dont think..they wiil enforce this insurance scheme its only one thai mans ..opinion. many other countries expect you to have a lot more than this to retire there....

[madmitch]

In my opinion i would like to see only responsible ex-pats who can afford to live here.

800,000B in the bank is hardly mega rich?

For those who abuse the system send them packing, it's long over do.

Yes, but it's not going to be 800,000 baht any more, is it.

The 800,000 baht is there to cover your annual living expenses and may include the cost of health insurance. If you spend 800,000 baht during the year you are effectively going to need to deposit twice that in the first year. It's not economical to transfer smaller amounts on an ad hoc basis and using foreign ATM cards is expensive.

A proper look at the bank book by the immigration official is a far better way of doing things, surely.

[BillR]

I always thought the 800k baht was NOT for annual living expenses, rather a security in case something bad happens, such as a hospital stay.

[KarenBravo]

No, originally the 800,000 was for living expenses, to be drawn down over the year, not to be withdrawn in one lump sum.

Also before, you didn't have to have the lump sum if you could show you were bringing in 65,000 a month for living.

This official doesn't really understand what it's for.

[LivinginKata]

I always thought the 800k baht was NOT for annual living expenses, rather a security in case something bad happens, such as a hospital stay.

I thought it was proof of enough living expenses for the next year in lieu of 65,000 baht/month pension/income.

[BillR]

ah ok, Ive just seen it mentioned (I thought) that you could have problem if the balance dropped below 800k

[KarenBravo]

You're meant to keep 800,000 in your account without it going under that for three months before your retirement visa application, or, renewal.

[merijn]

The retirement extension rules are very simple.

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 2 months for the first extension or,

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 3 months for the next extension or,

- prove of 65.000 Baht income a month or,

- A combination of those two. ( combined more then 65.000 baht a month )

[Sophon]

The retirement extension rules are very simple.

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 2 months for the first extension or,

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 3 months for the next extension or,

- prove of 65.000 Baht income a month or,

- A combination of those two. ( combined more then 65.000 baht a month )

Actually, that should be:

"A combination of those two (combined more than 800,000 baht per year)"

Sophon

[merijn]

The retirement extension rules are very simple.

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 2 months for the first extension or,

- 800.000 in Thai bank account in your sole name for 3 months for the next extension or,

- prove of 65.000 Baht income a month or,

- A combination of those two. ( combined more then 65.000 baht a month )

Actually, that should be:

"A combination of those two (combined more than 800,000 baht per year)"

Sophon

NO it is a combination of at least 65.000 Baht a month.

The target is 65.000 Baht a month and not 800.000 in account.

This calculation is used by the Phuket Immigration officers.

Edited January 6, 2011 by merijn

[kenny999]

Dear Ken,

Thank you for your email.

I too have seen the reports in Phuket Wan regarding the meeting with the Chief of Provincial Organisation, Khun Paiboon Upatising and I think, although the authorities might eventually push for something like this, the report does not go into detail of the current Immigration Rules. The Baht 800,000 requirement is one of three alternatives of proof of income for those seeking annual retirement visas; therefore, I think the report is misleading, as it totally leaves out mention of the alternatives. These alternatives include the proof of Baht 65,000 income each month, or a combination of income and savings if there is a shortfall in the monthly income.

However, having said this, the Thai authorities do have the right to change the conditions of the Retirement Visa process at any time. I know in Phuket the Immigration Department is fairly lenient with its procedures, especially with regards to the requirement of the medical certificate. This must be provided if one is applying for an AO Visa (Retirement Visa) at an overseas Thai Consulate office, but is rarely asked for at Phuket Immigration offices.

I think the underlying problem here is the increase in people applying for the Retirement visa and the reported (see Phuket Wan report) way that some applicants get around the application process. This possibly indicates that there are many who have the Retirement Visa but do not actually have the funds. In this case, it is a positive thing that Paiboon Upatising brings these alternatives procedures up; hopefully they will stop and those that have fair income and savings are not unduly punished.

With regards to the medical insurance, I know it is not easy to get insurance at a certain age, or it is prohibitive because of the costs (my own parents do live in Phuket); however, I do think there will eventually be a procedure adopted by the Thai authorities to ensure that individuals’ funds are available for medical treatment at all times.

Unfortunately, the articles you have seen are a little misleading and are reported in such a way that has caused unnecessary panic and concern of many people.

A REPLY FROM MARTIN CARPENTER REGARDING POSSABLE CHANGE IN RETIREMENT VISA....

[Sophon]

Actually, that should be:

"A combination of those two (combined more than 800,000 baht per year)"

Sophon

NO it is a combination of at least 65.000 Baht a month.

The target is 65.000 Baht a month and not 800.000 in account.

This calculation is used by the Phuket Immigration officers.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The official regulation taken from the Immgration Bureau web site:

Quote:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date.

Unquote

Some immigration officers in Phuket may find it easier to calculate it on a monthly basis using the Baht 65,000 amount as the target, and in most cases it won't make much difference. But 65,000 times twelve is only 780,000, so if your "monthly amount" comes in at less than Baht 66,667 then you don't qualify for the extension and you are likely to be refused. That's why it's important to know what the rules actually say, which is "deposit plus yearly income totalling no less than Baht 800,000".

Sophon

[kenny999]

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The official regulation taken from the Immgration Bureau web site:

Quote:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date.

Unquote

Some immigration officers in Phuket may find it easier to calculate it on a monthly basis using the Baht 65,000 amount as the target, and in most cases it won't make much difference. But 65,000 times twelve is only 780,000, so if your "monthly amount" comes in at less than Baht 66,667 then you don't qualify for the extension and you are likely to be refused. That's why it's important to know what the rules actually say, which is "deposit plus yearly income totalling no less than Baht 800,000".

Sophon

You dont mention a combination of the 2 tottaling 800,000 bht. if your monthly income is say 36,000 bht this is 432,000 which then leaves you 368000 to have in your bank account.

[Sophon]

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The official regulation taken from the Immgration Bureau web site:

Quote:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date.

Unquote

Some immigration officers in Phuket may find it easier to calculate it on a monthly basis using the Baht 65,000 amount as the target, and in most cases it won't make much difference. But 65,000 times twelve is only 780,000, so if your "monthly amount" comes in at less than Baht 66,667 then you don't qualify for the extension and you are likely to be refused. That's why it's important to know what the rules actually say, which is "deposit plus yearly income totalling no less than Baht 800,000".

Sophon

You dont mention a combination of the 2 tottaling 800,000 bht. if your monthly income is say 36,000 bht this is 432,000 which then leaves you 368000 to have in your bank account.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying, but item (5) in the above post deals with the combination of income and bank deposit.

Sophon

[merijn]

Actually, that should be:

"A combination of those two (combined more than 800,000 baht per year)"

Sophon

NO it is a combination of at least 65.000 Baht a month.

The target is 65.000 Baht a month and not 800.000 in account.

This calculation is used by the Phuket Immigration officers.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The official regulation taken from the Immgration Bureau web site:

Quote:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date.

Unquote

Some immigration officers in Phuket may find it easier to calculate it on a monthly basis using the Baht 65,000 amount as the target, and in most cases it won't make much difference. But 65,000 times twelve is only 780,000, so if your "monthly amount" comes in at less than Baht 66,667 then you don't qualify for the extension and you are likely to be refused. That's why it's important to know what the rules actually say, which is "deposit plus yearly income totalling no less than Baht 800,000".

Sophon

Theoretically you are correct but how I explained it is how Phuket immigration is doing it.

As you properly know, you can be 100% correct but the only thing what’s count is the opinion and interpretation of the rules by the immigration officer.

[Jingthing]

That doesn't make any sense. Maybe you need to rephrase and be more precise.

If the "target" is 65K per month and you are using the bank account method, you would only need 780K in the account (65K x 12) rather than 800K, and basically I don't believe any immigration office is accepting that.

As far as the letter in this thread about Phuket being so liberal not asking for a medical report for extensions, that was a bit bizarre as the national rules don't require such a letter at ANY Thai immigration office.