Felt 35 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 My father-in-law gave a loan to some neighbours 3-4 years ago with an guaranty in land if they should fail to pay him back. We are talking about 300K+. The neighbours have not paid him back the loan and their land is now going to an auction because nobody want to buy it . (In fact a nice piece of land in North,3 Rai) My father-in-law are afraid he will get less money back than what he lend out because its going on an auction, and are asking me for a loan so he can buy the land and then sell it again for the same price or higher so he not loose to much money!! Well Iàm that kind of person who have very firm principles about borrow or lend out money. The family is not rich either poor and owned a lot of land in the past. But of course I like to help my father-in-law so I suggested for my wife to buy the land at the auction, and in here name. Then we get a nice piece of land to a reasonable price and it still will be in your family and my father-in-law would at least get some money pluss the land will be in his family. But no that was not interesting. Well I explaned to my wife that all I want and can do. I`m not very popular just now!! I like to hear your opinion (members) Thanks and Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkok-bob Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Where is this land?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnustedt Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 with an guaranty in land if they should fail to pay him back. My understanding of such loans is that the deeds of the land are transferred to the lender until the loan is paid off. If the loan does not get paid off the lender keeps the land. Unless your father-in-law has done something different he can just keep the land. I do not understand why it has to go to auction unless your father-in-law wants it to. If you want the land you (if you are Thai), or your wife, should be able to purchase it from your father-in-law if he wants to sell. If you loan money to your father-in-law you can consider it a gift to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 But of course I like to help my father-in-law so I suggested for my wife to buy the land at the auction, and in here name. Then we get a nice piece of land to a reasonable price and it still will be in your family and my father-in-law would at least get some money pluss the land will be in his family.But no that was not interesting. Well I explaned to my wife that all I want and can do. I`m not very popular just now!! I like to hear your opinion (members) Thanks and Regards Doing it your way is fair and reasonable if the property has to go to auction, but for the life of me, I can't understand why an auction is being done, unless someone else has an equitable interest in the land as mortgagee. If you do it father's way, his problem becomes your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I think you are being bullshitted to at a family level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translator Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hello there If I was you dear fella. I would find out the type of documents held for the land. then get down to the head person in the village (land located) and pick his mind with the use of your wife. Make sure the land is not destined for future govt plans, etc. ask yourself also, why do's no-one run to buy the land. sounds a bit iffy to me (If it was the right price there would be a que). I live south. Land outside of towns is going for about 25.000 a rai to 35.000. If its agry land, what i mean is rubber etc, then your looking at 30.000 to 50.000 south side a rai. from my understanding North is more expensive but at what cost. I dont know. But get to the head poncho and talk to him. ask him about the past and future on the land. Be lucky...Don't worry about being unpopular, family always forget when they want something sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translator Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 In fact talking to the wife. We both agree it sounds like a problem you should not be involved with. Its something between him and his mate next door. he knows all about loaning and lack of return. as many of us do. if it was good land you would not see or hear about it. its not your problem he cant get the return he expected on the papers. as it said said..... just look after yourself, wife and kid(s). dont take on extra you cant get rid of later.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 If the land is in the bank, (which to me it sounds like as they are the only people that can authorise an auction without consent of the "owner" to claim the amount owing.) on the back of the land title it will have a list of owners etc and the name of the bank/person will be the last on that list. Further more you can go to the land department and see whos name this land is in. I personally do no believe the story, but very easily checked out. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Research is the way to go....NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translator Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 FELT 35 - Wait a few days and read this forum before you say yes to the father in law. I'm sure someone will be more direct and to the point for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaiiguy Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 any money you offer up, you will lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling Stone Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Tell the father-in-law to sod off. Tell the wife ot get over it or you can find a new wife. Sounds to me she cares more for herself and her family than for you. I am not one of the believers in the wife has X responsabilities to the family, especially when dad seems to have a bit of jingle himself. She has a new family now and that should be number 1 in her life now, if its not she has the wrong priorities, IMHO. I wouldn't even buy the land for your wife to keep it in the family. Put your foot down and be a man. Keep it real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Felt, you are being scammed! Dont give them a dime What a BS story if I ever heard one! Tell the father in law "This falang not buffalo" and you'll get respect in a few days he'll be back to normal Give in now and you'll be a target forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabkk Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 with an guaranty in land if they should fail to pay him back. My understanding of such loans is that the deeds of the land are transferred to the lender until the loan is paid off. If the loan does not get paid off the lender keeps the land. Usually both parties make a contract with a notary public. The lender loans much much less than the market price and expect to receive some interest every month (often 3% a month). At the end of the contract if the borrower doesn't pay back the loan + interests, the property belongs automatically to the lender. Was there really a loan between the neighbor and the father-in-law or was a stupid story invented to avoid losing face by asking money from the farang? Whatever the truth is, lending money for the auction will be considered a gift; the father-in-law wants the papers under his name to be able to sell the land whenever he wants and pocket the money! Welcome to the family, son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seykota Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 My wife always says No No No! to any family members who 'put the bite' on her. I never need to get involved. I explained early on that the myth that farangs money grows on trees, was exactly that a MYTH. They all know they are on a good wicket & only a couple ask, rarely. I agree that it gains their respect. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun ? Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 If he loaned the money why is it going to be auctioned. It is normal and by law he will be able to charge 3% on the loan monthly. The money loaned should of been paid to the bank so the bank would not have no rights of the land. This sounds like a complete story being made up by the family. Better to not get involved and come up with your own story. Save face for all. You are definetly not thought of being no more smart than a kwai. I think you may need to be looking for a trade in, on the wife, to even get you involved in such scheme. Take a long trip away until the smoke clears. I am sure you need to have some business at the embassy that you must leave quickly for because your bank at home requested you to go to the embassy. Your life with this family is of no value now and will be no better in the future. Love is blind see the eye doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi and Thanks for many sensible anwers and advices. Few moments got clearer after some questions to my wife yesterday. 1. Nothing is written and my father-in-law want to take the case to court!! 2. The first amount mention here on the web is what he (Father-in-law) have lend out to some neighbours without any documentation. My wife have changed strategi and now it is about help for pay the expences in court. Which she estimate to be around 50K. Well I can accept to help with that amount, but what changes is it in court when money is borrowed between neighbours and no document is written. Word against word? By the way we live in another province and have no access to whatever deal my father-in-law have made. Thanks and Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun ? Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 It just seemed a shame they would go to you so he could get his money back while you would be out of yours. Think about it, if you paid the 300G to the bank the father got the property and sold it for 300G he has his 300G what do you have as it seems the property is not what they wanted as he would of bought it straight out instead of the loan. Thais do not loan this type of money for no reason something still seems amuck with this regardless of where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabkk Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Which she estimate to be around 50K. Well I can accept to help with that amount, but what changes is it in court when money is borrowed between neighbours and no document is written. Word against word? No contract, no case in court! The 50,000 will be lost! It seems that the story changes everyday. Refuse again and wait for the next episode! In the end you'll buy them a case of beer and they'll be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnustedt Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Oh so, there is no land guarantee, there is no auction - maybe there was no loan and there will be no court case. Perhaps your father-in-law just wants to buy a motor bike! Find out the truth and don't part with your money until you are sure what you are going to buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Sorry to say mate, but it really is bullshit I think - I would say no! I am not sure how long you have been with this lady, but this might be the first test for you, say no from the onset and keep saying it - they will stop asking in the end.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translator Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 RabbKK 100% Daddy of wife never had deal on loan before farang was around. Man friend of Daddies next door loose land to bank or govt loan 4 years ago.... cant pay back. Bank or govt sell land to recoup loan loss. Daddy hear's land for sale and wants land for more family power in village... gives shit sob story to farang who worries about feelings. Felt - every action has an equal and opposite re-action. Dont worry about loosing face. Tomorrows your day. Keep it in your pocket. If you give once you will be asked from all in the family for the rest of your marriage. you have been warned Ps - keep us updated felt. maybe we can smooth the flow for you and wife after the event. Take her away for a week to a nice location, without Daddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maerim Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 First let me apologise for not replying to this before. I have taken the liberty to do some calculations on your behalf. Without knowing the precise location of the said land and the relationship you have with this gentleman. So what I have done is to make some estimates the odd guess. I have checked the figures several times and I have come up with what I think is a reasonable figure to sort this out once and for all. Nothing, zilch,zero.nowt, Speaking from a very expensive lesson with Thai families once you start going down this road you won't be able to stop or more to the point they won't let you stop. You say he had some land previous to this wheres that gone? If it's a typical case it's been flogged off and the proceeds drunk or gambled away. The question you should be asking yourself is why they are asking you for the cash it's simply because they can that's why.Who would they ask if you were not there? Tell him you are very sorry but life's tough and as he got himself into this fix(or so he says) so let him get himself put of it. They will pull a face and your missus might get a bit snotty but don't give him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi and Thanks for many sensible anwers and advices.Few moments got clearer after some questions to my wife yesterday. 1. Nothing is written and my father-in-law want to take the case to court!! 2. The first amount mention here on the web is what he (Father-in-law) have lend out to some neighbours without any documentation. My wife have changed strategi and now it is about help for pay the expences in court. Which she estimate to be around 50K. Well I can accept to help with that amount, but what changes is it in court when money is borrowed between neighbours and no document is written. Word against word? By the way we live in another province and have no access to whatever deal my father-in-law have made. Thanks and Regards Wake up, man, you are being scammed. The 50K to go to court is the bait. It does not cost that much in Thailand to go to court, and I bet they won't go and use the money to buy the latest mobile or some other shit like that. Welcome to Thailand. Rule #1 : Never lend money to a THAI Rule #2 : Never lend money to a FARANG The auction story does not add up. If it is being auctionned, it means that someone else is already a creditor of the land (Bank for another loan ?), and the price is probably more than 300,000 so there is no chance for you or the father to buy it back. The father just want his money back, and since the neighbor won't pay, he needs another "sucker" to pay (that is you) This is a classic story. I have seen it happen even between Thais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Felt. look at it like this... The father in law is like a safe-cracker, he keeps changing the story like a thief trying to find out the correct combination by feeling the safes tumblers. In this case the safe is YOUR WALLET ! DONT GIVE IN, and WHATS THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOUR WIFE! She should tell him to go ##### ! sorry but this stuff gets me steamed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I have been keeping an eye on this thread as my father-in-law does loan money out using the land papers as a guaranty. He has never loaned a substantial amount without getting 1)a written IOU (you can buy these contracts in most local villages and they are binding) and 2) the land papers. He is currently trying to get money out of people who borrowed from him, the due date is past and they cannot pay. (or will not) . The land never goes to auction in these cases, only when the bank is the creditor. My point being, you are either being given a complete story or are expected to cover your father-in-law's poor judgement. Agree this point cannot be reiterated enough, If you start giving money now, it will never stop. It is never pleasant but you will have to tell your wife that she owes you as much loyalty as she does her family, esp since you are her family now. Tell her you no longer want to hear these family stories and you will not bail them out of their own self-induced problems. It will not be easy but perhaps it will be better since you do not live near her family. I had to live next door to my lazy, gambling brother-in-law for years, and altho it made me the bad guy I refused to let any money be loaned out to him to bail him out. I must say, that altho he doesn't like me much, he does respect me (also thinks I wear the pants in the family but that is another story!). For your long-term mental health, you need to stand up on this one and not cave in to family pressure. good luck to you and keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyflip Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Man, sorry to say that but you are being used here. Please take advice from those who suggest to not give money. There are a couple reasons for that: 1. Nobody would lend anyone money without any written document, alrite? and we talk about 300000 baht here that alot of money in Thailand as you might know. 2. If there is no document written, it cannot be taken to the court and everyone know that!!! 3. 50000 baht to go to court? It never cost that much for the whole thing. Lawyer cost maximun for this case is around 10000 baht, but no lawyers wanna do this case coz they all know they will lose. Get yourself out of this story. Your wife just wanna help her father, I dont blame her but this is not right. Believe it or not , she knows the whole true story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 1. Nothing is written and my father-in-law want to take the case to court!! Old Sam Goldwyn of MGM movie fame used to say that verbal contracts ain't worth the paper they are written on. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maerim Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Dis you know that Sam's real name is or was Shmuel Gelbfisz? Yes I know, I really should get out a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Dis you know that Sam's real name is or was Shmuel Gelbfisz?Yes I know, I really should get out a bit more Sounds like old Shmuel was a Roman Catholic businessman Too much knowledge like that does suggest you should get out a lot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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