Difference In Riding A Cruiser And A Sport Bike

[floridaguy]

As you may know, I drive a Honda Steed and a Honda Phantom both customized to raked out choppers. I have been thinking of adding a sport bike to the stable. I am not sure what kind yet, leaning towards a Kawasaki. But, what I would like to know is the difference in riding I should expect. I have never driven a sport bike, so I am a little concerned with the seating position and the ride height. I am a smaller guy at about 167cm and 64kg, and know the riding height will be higher than my very low seated chopper. Also, the seated position, my feet will be behind me? Do you put more of your weight forward on your hands instead of your butt? I am worried about balancing at stops since I am short.

I am heading down to Pattaya this weekend and thought I would rent a couple of sport bikes to get a feel for them. I know rentals can be dodgy, but I am not talking about speed tests, just how they feel and how well I can maneuver one.

Any advice on type of bike to look for? I am looking for at least a 600 to test, but would really like to own a liter bike when I buy.

And please, let's not debate which type of bike is best, which type sucks, etc. I am looking for honest pointers here on actual differences in driving.

Edited January 7, 2011 by floridaguy

[katabeachbum]

My GF is 155 and she rides a kwaker Ninja 650R. slippers is difficult, but sneekers works fine.

riding position very different, I used to have a VTX 1800cc V-twin

riding a cruiser your back take all the hits

while on a sport bike, your hips/ thighs/legs make suspension taking most load off your back

pressing your knees around the fuel tank area, there is no load on hands/wrists at all

the most noticable difference is brakes, handling and engine response

highrevving engine, no low end tourque, less than 3000rpm doesnt really work, 7000-11000 is the fun area

as a rental, try to find a kwaker ER6n/Ninja 650R as they are not more than 2 years old

[Captain Chaos]

Riding position will be hands down, arse up compared to what you are used to. More weight on the wrists (unless at high speed when the air flow will support the torso more). Not good in town conditions (IMHO) as a result. Probably more comfortable than a cruiser on the open road (due to fairing), but high pegs might give you knee ache / leg cramps until you get used to it.

If you are physically small, seat height may be an issue, although at 1.67m I doubt it. Anyway, modern sports bikes are pretty compact, and you can always have the seat lowered if need be.

I am 1.89cm and so I prefer big naked muscle bikes or trailies over either sports or cruisers. I like the commanding riding position and extra leg room!

Like you say, a test is the only way to be sure...

CC

[RusticCharm]

Pattaya Soi 8 and Beach Road junctions has some nice new(ish)  R6's and CB600RR's to rent. They dont offer a decent helmet though so you may want to bring your own.

[submaniac]

If you are used to riding cruisers (I don't like using the Thai slang for "choppers" because a chopper is a "chopped" customized bike) , it will take some getting used to the sportbike. Not necessarily uncomfortable, but being used to a cruisers all the things aren't where they'd normally be. Specifically the footpegs. I switch(ed) between sportbikes and cruisers, and going from one to the other, putting my foot on the pegs was the area that was the biggest difference. On the cruiser it is forward, on the sportbike it is behind you. So when I put my feet up after I took off, you find that the pegs aren't where you are used to them.

The cruiser is like riding a nice lounge chair. Comfortable. The seating position is pretty much that of a scooter (but more macho since it is a motorcycle). On the sportbike, you are putting alot of weight on your wrists. Almost like doing a constant pushup. Another big difference is that you will find your wrist getting sore.

I am about your height (172 cm). The sportbike shouldn't be that big of a problem coming to a stop. In the states I ride a CBR1000rr which is a fairly tall bike for me. I could not flat foot it until I lowered it. But before it was lowered, all you have to do is just come to a stop and lean the bike over to one side/foot. Like on the cruiser it's so low that when you stop, you can put both feet on the ground. The sportbike, when coming to a stop put one foot down and lean the bike to that side. Problem solved. You'll get used it it fairly quickly.

Edit: I realized that as your bikes are customized, they are "legitimately" choppers, not just the Thai slang for a cruiser style bike.

Edited January 7, 2011 by submaniac

[JonnyF]

The modern japanese sports bikes are pretty small now, in my opinion the perfect height for most of them is around 170-175. I'm about 170 and while I can only just flat foot my gsxr while stopped, I find that being on the short side makes it pretty comfortable while on the move due to the high pegs. As you don't weigh much but are on the short side, you'll probably find it a bit of a reach to the bars but if you sit properly and use your body to support your weight then it won't be uncomfortable once you get used to it.

I found it got more and more comfortable the more I rode it, not sure if my wrists got stronger or if I started using my body to support my weight more than my wrists but I can go 250 kms in one sitting (the range of the bike) with no discomfort. Chiang Mai to BKK in one day was a bit tiring but I think it would be on any bike, it's even tiring in a car. Having said that I'm around 70 kgs so maybe for bigger guys it might be less comfortable.

In terms of handling it's chalk and cheese really. I don't ride choppers often but when I do I am always a bit shocked by the way they (don't) turn or stop. I'm sure that would improve if I rode one more often and got used to it but to be honest I don't really want to (not a dig just my personal preference). 600's are fairly sedate below 7k rpm but be a bit careful above that. I'd also be a bit careful if you are getting a litre bike as your first sports bike, a modern 600 would probably be enough.

Any jap 600 will be OK for the test ride, just get the one that looks like it has been well maintained, not sure if that exists in Pattaya, never rented a bike there.

Good luck and report back once you've ridden it, be interesting to see how you like them.

[submaniac]

Oh, one more thing, if you are heading to Pattaya to rent a sportbike, be careful with the clutch and the throttle. The Steed and Phantom are not real "powerful" machines. If you hop on a 600cc+ race replica bike, you need to be real careful because they are very powerful machines. If you let go of the clutch too quickly, or twist the throttle like you are used to on the cruisers, you may just launch and do an unintended wheelie. I think most of the people who get into accidents or rented bikes do so because they do not realize how much power those bikes really have. The bikes are really meant for long stretches of open road where they can stretch their legs. In local, in-town traffic, the struggles is to try to keep the beastie under control because it will want to go.

[katabeachbum]

Oh, one more thing, if you are heading to Pattaya to rent a sportbike, be careful with the clutch and the throttle. The Steed and Phantom are not real "powerful" machines. If you hop on a 600cc+ race replica bike, you need to be real careful because they are very powerful machines. If you let go of the clutch too quickly, or twist the throttle like you are used to on the cruisers, you may just launch and do an unintended wheelie. I think most of the people who get into accidents or rented bikes do so because they do not realize how much power those bikes really have. The bikes are really meant for long stretches of open road where they can stretch their legs. In local, in-town traffic, the struggles is to try to keep the beastie under control because it will want to go.

very good advice, from steed 600 to any sportsbike 600, power doubles or more, so easy to loose traction when you reach 7k rpm, and when shifting down. Go easy on the clutch until you get used to it

preferable also get a bike with ABS, as the braking power is more than double of Steed

[submaniac]

katabeachbum reminded me of something else: WATCH YOUR BALLS and be careful of the brakes. Sportbike brakes are really power at stopping. The tank is also right in front of your nuts. If you hit the brakes too hard, you will slide forward and your nuts will hit the tank. Learn the lesson from my post. If you learn the lesson "the hard way" it is a painful lesson you will not soon forget.

[floridaguy]

katabeachbum reminded me of something else: WATCH YOUR BALLS and be careful of the brakes. Sportbike brakes are really power at stopping. The tank is also right in front of your nuts. If you hit the brakes too hard, you will slide forward and your nuts will hit the tank. Learn the lesson from my post. If you learn the lesson "the hard way" it is a painful lesson you will not soon forget.

HAHA, that is funny. I will definately pay some attention to the fellas when I get on. Thanks for the leaning advice. That is what I am probably most worried about. My Steed is heavy, and I found there is a tipping point, where if I lean it past this point, it goes on its side. I am afraid of dropping the sport bike if I am leaning too far.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I am heading out now, I will post tomorrow after my ride and let you know how it goes.

Happy riding!

[BigBikeBKK]

Any advice on type of bike to look for? I am looking for at least a 600 to test, but would really like to own a liter bike when I buy.

Always nice to have a variety in the stable but I would caution you about going straight to a 160-200Hp 1000cc sport bike if most of your riding experience has been on low powered cruisers...

The bikes you ride now are very tame- if you twist your wrist nothing much will happen.

A liter bike requires a lot more skill and finesse and will spit you off in a split second if you screw up.

My personal recomendation- start off renting an ER6n / Ninja 650R as they are sporty, but not supersport and are very forgiving and easy to ride. If you enjoy the EX650 try a "real" sport bike, like an R6 or CBR600 and see how that goes.

Remember that riding a sport or supersport is totally different from riding a cruiser. Hold the tank with your knees and use your core muscles to support your weight. Do NOT put weight on your arms and wrists- a common mistake that will make riding a sport bike very uncomfortable. If ridden correctly a sport bike can be very comfortable and you will enjoy far superior acceleration, braking and handling compared to the cruisers you are riding now.

Ride On!

Tony

[ScubaBuddha]

Don't let everyone's comments scare you. Try a Ninja650R/ER6n first. At 72HP it's very managable, but still sport bike power. After getting comfortable with that, try a full sport CBR600RR, R6 etc. That puts you at about 110-135HP. A liter bike (meaning 1000cc) can be 180+ HP. To much for a new sport bike rider in my opinion. I felt it was a bit absurd at the time, but when I had a YZF600R and then R6 spanning 3 years, I was still advised by the semi pro-1000cc guys to not go straight to a liter bike even from an R6. Better a GSXR750, Ducati 848 or something similar. Other than a fleeting desire to own a Ducati 1098 when it first came out, I have never felt the need for that kind of power. Having said that, at 136hp, I think my next bike will be the 2011 Ninja1000 (Z1000sx). IMHO it's the Goldilocks and three Bears of sport/sport touring bikes. Not too sporty, but still sporty enough. Ninja650shop says their engineer is currently designing sport bars for her.

[katabeachbum]

Don't let everyone's comments scare you. Try a Ninja650R/ER6n first. At 72HP it's very managable, but still sport bike power. After getting comfortable with that, try a full sport CBR600RR, R6 etc. That puts you at about 110-135HP. A liter bike (meaning 1000cc) can be 180+ HP. To much for a new sport bike rider in my opinion. I felt it was a bit absurd at the time, but when I had a YZF600R and then R6 spanning 3 years, I was still advised by the semi pro-1000cc guys to not go straight to a liter bike even from an R6. Better a GSXR750, Ducati 848 or something similar. Other than a fleeting desire to own a Ducati 1098 when it first came out, I have never felt the need for that kind of power. Having said that, at 136hp, I think my next bike will be the 2011 Ninja1000 (Z1000sx). IMHO it's the Goldilocks and three Bears of sport/sport touring bikes. Not too sporty, but still sporty enough. Ninja650shop says their engineer is currently designing sport bars for her.

and I wonder if we will see this one Thai made by November 2011 at 400-450k baht, and I want it in RED

[BigBikeBKK]

Don't let everyone's comments scare you. Try a Ninja650R/ER6n first. At 72HP it's very managable, but still sport bike power. After getting comfortable with that, try a full sport CBR600RR, R6 etc. That puts you at about 110-135HP. A liter bike (meaning 1000cc) can be 180+ HP. To much for a new sport bike rider in my opinion. I felt it was a bit absurd at the time, but when I had a YZF600R and then R6 spanning 3 years, I was still advised by the semi pro-1000cc guys to not go straight to a liter bike even from an R6. Better a GSXR750, Ducati 848 or something similar. Other than a fleeting desire to own a Ducati 1098 when it first came out, I have never felt the need for that kind of power. Having said that, at 136hp, I think my next bike will be the 2011 Ninja1000 (Z1000sx). IMHO it's the Goldilocks and three Bears of sport/sport touring bikes. Not too sporty, but still sporty enough. Ninja650shop says their engineer is currently designing sport bars for her.

and I wonder if we will see this one Thai made by November 2011 at 400-450k baht, and I want it in RED

Not a chance mate. Kawasaki has no plans to produce 4 cylinder bikes at their Rayong factory in the foreseeable future. If you want one of these bad boys give Red Baron a call. Is this new Ninja 1000 just a faired Z1000? Ride On! T

[Captain Chaos]

D'oh! Everyone knows GREEN Kwacks are faster than the other colours!!

[saorsa]

My fav sports bike was the GSXR750. I found the 600s a bit revvy and the 1000 just too much for my skills when I tried a mate's R1. the 750 gave a nice balance between the two.

In town, I found major problems with all sports bikes I have ridden hurting my wrists and lower back due to the riding position, but as soon as I got out of town, it was fine.

[Garry]

.....................Remember that riding a sport or supersport is totally different from riding a cruiser. Hold the tank with your knees and use your core muscles to support your weight. Do NOT put weight on your arms and wrists- a common mistake that will make riding a sport bike very uncomfortable. If ridden correctly a sport bike can be very comfortable and you will enjoy far superior acceleration, braking and handling compared to the cruisers you are riding now.

Ride On!

Tony

My fav sports bike was the GSXR750. I found the 600s a bit revvy and the 1000 just too much for my skills when I tried a mate's R1. the 750 gave a nice balance between the two.

In town, I found major problems with all sports bikes I have ridden hurting my wrists and lower back due to the riding position, but as soon as I got out of town, it was fine.

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen. I have a buddy on a Ninja 650R that has mentioned about sore hands and arms. I mentioned my process and he will try it. I have no problems, as my gloved hands are resting on the handlebars with no more than arm weight at most at any one time. This concept is totally alien to most riders and does take time to get your body used to this type of riding style. Once you get used to this regime, you will not look back.

I have a 999S and have no dramas doing a 400+ km ride in a day. I'm doing a 700km ride with a buddy next week and all I'm expecting is a lot of fun and nothing else.

:jap:

[ScubaBuddha]

and I wonder if we will see this one Thai made by November 2011 at 400-450k baht, and I want it in RED

Not a chance mate. Kawasaki has no plans to produce 4 cylinder bikes at their Rayong factory in the foreseeable future. If you want one of these bad boys give Red Baron a call. Is this new Ninja 1000 just a faired Z1000? Ride On! T

Yes, it's a faired Z1000. Manager of Phuket Kwacker says we will get it, but didn't state if it was going to be built here like the 650R. I agree it's unlikely, but you never know!! In all likelihood it will be the 600k range.

[CMX]

Generally, sports bikes do everything related to maneuvering better. Even given the same engine, the sports bike is an invitation to faster turns, higher speeds, and better braking. Few riders can resist the challenge. So a lot of what is above means take it easy at first - more to learn.

Then too, sports bikes appeal to those who prefer the fetal position for some reason.

[dave_boo]

I want to chime in on the position assumed on a sports bike; it's utterly critical. I've done quite a few 1000+ km rides on my Ninja 250 (which obviously takes longer than those fellows who spend more on a faster bike!) and they have not been a problem yet. Sliding a bit forward relieves a tonne of pressure on the wrists or even laying down on the tank (needed on several trips to kinda keep up with flying Tony) is the way to go.

Also would like to second the 'try a small sportsbike first' comments....you learned to walk before running right?

[LivinLOS]

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen.

It also depends on what your riding.. Put me on a CBR 400.. and the size of the bike means the combination between my leg angles and seat position puts all of my upper body out over the tank and almost over the bars.. Theres no way my core can hold that in balance, the size of the machine with me as a tall guy just doesnt work.

So yes, a lot is rider position, but if you under say 6'2" ish.. Its a LOT easier to hold that spot, add a couple inches in height on the same pocket rocket and you cant and more upper body ends up on the bars.

[katabeachbum]

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen.

It also depends on what your riding.. Put me on a CBR 400.. and the size of the bike means the combination between my leg angles and seat position puts all of my upper body out over the tank and almost over the bars.. Theres no way my core can hold that in balance, the size of the machine with me as a tall guy just doesnt work.

So yes, a lot is rider position, but if you under say 6'2" ish.. Its a LOT easier to hold that spot, add a couple inches in height on the same pocket rocket and you cant and more upper body ends up on the bars.

riding 1800cc cruiser and yammy TMax auto for a couple of years, I had developed some layed back bad habits. Going back to sportsbike (Ninja 650R) I found myself with far to much load on the handlebar, IOW my wrists. Not only is it hard on the wrists, it affects handling negative. I had to focus on using my body to unload wrists, and every time going downhill or no need for accelerator I took hands off handlebar to find balance.

Later I swapped to lower handlebars (sportsbars) 2 1/2 inches lower one would think makes increased load on wrists, but it actually makes you focus more on unloading wrists

[Garry]

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen.

It also depends on what your riding.. Put me on a CBR 400.. and the size of the bike means the combination between my leg angles and seat position puts all of my upper body out over the tank and almost over the bars.. Theres no way my core can hold that in balance, the size of the machine with me as a tall guy just doesnt work.

So yes, a lot is rider position, but if you under say 6'2" ish.. Its a LOT easier to hold that spot, add a couple inches in height on the same pocket rocket and you cant and more upper body ends up on the bars.

I'm 6'4", 200+lbs with gear on, I ride a purest street legal race bike, your point is moot.

[LivinLOS]

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen.

It also depends on what your riding.. Put me on a CBR 400.. and the size of the bike means the combination between my leg angles and seat position puts all of my upper body out over the tank and almost over the bars.. Theres no way my core can hold that in balance, the size of the machine with me as a tall guy just doesnt work.

So yes, a lot is rider position, but if you under say 6'2" ish.. Its a LOT easier to hold that spot, add a couple inches in height on the same pocket rocket and you cant and more upper body ends up on the bars.

I'm 6'4", 200+lbs with gear on, I ride a purest street legal race bike, your point is moot.

Thats as small or smaller than a CBR400 ??

Thats my point.. I dont suffer on big sportbikes, 900 blade, etc, are a breeze compared to the pocket rocket 400's which I think are built far more for the asian build.

[floridaguy]

Well guys, after all the great advice, I was unfortunately called back to BKK without having a chance to test out a bike. On the ride back, I realized that I know of 2 or 3 rental places in Pattaya, but not one in BKK. Any decent places around the Sukhumvit area that rents some bikes less than 2 years old? Now that my business is done today, I would like to rent one or two this weekend.

[Hili]

Well guys, after all the great advice, I was unfortunately called back to BKK without having a chance to test out a bike. On the ride back, I realized that I know of 2 or 3 rental places in Pattaya, but not one in BKK. Any decent places around the Sukhumvit area that rents some bikes less than 2 years old? Now that my business is done today, I would like to rent one or two this weekend.

not sure if they still there

http://www.bangkokbikesrental.com

[jahsoldier]

I tried my first "real" sportbike yesterday...a cbr600rr from 2007, had it for a day, the riding position wasnt the most comfortable compared to the ninja 650 but it was soooo much mor fun, even tho i didnt go above 11k rpm.

[Garry]

Have to agree with Tony. A lot of guys experience discomfort on sports bike, through a bunch of or singular things: lack of fitness, not being educated on a better way and some is just plain laziness and don't wanting to change, but will piss and moan about their aches and pains.

Using your core muscle groups to support yourself is a must. Initially it will seem like a lot of work and tiring, but this is just through lack of fitness and core muscle endurance will eventually happen.

It also depends on what your riding.. Put me on a CBR 400.. and the size of the bike means the combination between my leg angles and seat position puts all of my upper body out over the tank and almost over the bars.. Theres no way my core can hold that in balance, the size of the machine with me as a tall guy just doesnt work.

So yes, a lot is rider position, but if you under say 6'2" ish.. Its a LOT easier to hold that spot, add a couple inches in height on the same pocket rocket and you cant and more upper body ends up on the bars.

I'm 6'4", 200+lbs with gear on, I ride a purest street legal race bike, your point is moot.

Thats as small or smaller than a CBR400 ??

Thats my point.. I dont suffer on big sportbikes, 900 blade, etc, are a breeze compared to the pocket rocket 400's which I think are built far more for the asian build.

That's not how I read what you said, but no drama..turns out we maybe on the same page after all

[furyrider]

Now Now floridaguy

Whats this about you jumping ship? or should I say jumping bikes? And here I was looking up to you for riding choppers.

I did get that Honda Fury and love it. Trouble is I have spent half again as much on chrome parts pipes grill accent LEDs lowering kit new forwards and the list goes on.

Anyway it looks like you have a lot of very good advise I hope you find something that fits you as far as comfort goes.

[floridaguy]

Now Now floridaguy

Whats this about you jumping ship? or should I say jumping bikes? And here I was looking up to you for riding choppers.

I did get that Honda Fury and love it. Trouble is I have spent half again as much on chrome parts pipes grill accent LEDs lowering kit new forwards and the list goes on.

Anyway it looks like you have a lot of very good advise I hope you find something that fits you as far as comfort goes.

No, not jumping, more like straddling. Haha. I realized that there is no reason I shouldn't try a sport bike. I am the kind of guy that likes all things, and I like to keep my options open. In the US I have a big obnoxious SUV, and a fast and sexy sports car. I love having the option of either one on any given day. I have always had some kind of SUV and some kind of smaller faster car since I was 16. So I thought, I already have a couple of loud obnoxious choppers, why not try a sexy and fast sports bike? I guess that is probably the reason that I can't decide on any one particular woman.......

Glad you like the Fury. I still love my choppers, but I just gotta scratch the itch and try a fast bike.