Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

Read on...

So does this explain why they are also, stereotypically, spoilt little inconsiderate cnuts?

Interesting piece. Thanks for sharing.

My youngest daughter went to a school for gifted children. It was from grade 2 through grade 12. The school was in America but there was a much higher ratio of Asian students than the average school. They worked the kids very hard. No sports only academic subjects. If the students wanted sports they could play for another nearby school. The parents were almost all professionals. There was a high number of doctors children at the school. I was admitted to the local hospital once and all of the doctors who saw me had children in my daughters school. The school won all the state math contests and debating contests and those kinds of things. For graduation they had a symphony orchestra play. The orchestra was composed entirely of students from the school.

At graduation they also read off the colleges that the students were going to. 99% of the graduating class went to college.

The audience clapped when the big name colleges were mentioned.

The parent teachers meetings were attended by 99% of the parents. That was impressive. At the other schools my other 3 children attended PTA meetings got 20 or 30% attendance.

The children's parents regardless of nationality took their offspring's education seriously. A grade of less than a B in any subject and the students were transferred to another school.

That was the deal, A's or B's or gone.

Pine View School for the Gifted, Osprey, Fla.: This public school opened in 1969. Only those with 130 IQs or above may apply. Foreign language and technology are part of the curriculum for all students in grades two through twelve. High school classes are honors level and above. With 99% of our seniors preparing for college, Advanced Placement classes are an integral part of the high school curriculum.

The school ranks #1 in the State for SAT and ACT scores.

Also it is one of the most cost effective schools in the State. It was a public school. It didn't cost me a dime for her tuition.

I am convinced that is the way to do it. Put the smart kids in a school of their own. There were no class disruptions, no drugs no unruly students. The kids were there to study.

My daughter wanted to change schools a number of times. Too much work, too hard, not enough fun. Her mother said no. Dad usually an easy touch and rarely in agreement with mom about anything also said no. It was a shock to the poor child. Dad actually agreed with mom on something.

I know there are people here who think America has a poor school system. Check out www.newsweek.com/2010/06/13/america-s-best-high-schools-in-a-different-class.print.html

It might change your mind. I think the schools listed pretty much conform to the Chinese mother philosophy which I am in complete agreement with.

There was considerable reaction about the article in the US, child abuse was one of the milder accusations flung at Ms Chau.

This comment is quite thought provoking... "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way."

The concept of calling a child a loser for not being able to play a difficult piece on the piano must have raised a few eyebrows.

I begged and pleaded with my parents to send me to a different high school. One with girls. My pleas and tears fell on deaf ears. They didn't even look up from dinner to respond to my tales of horror from the beatings I took from the Priests and Brothers. “Dad he hit me with his fist and knocked me out. Pass the mashed potatoes please.” I didn't know any losers in school. The losers got kicked out.

There is another thread running about caning. What a joke. The priests used to strap us with leather straps. It didn't kill anyone. Go to a hockey practice and see what Canadian children do for fun. And what's this helmet thing? We rode motorcycles and bikes without helmets. We played hockey without helmets. Kids, toughen up. Thank God the Aussies still have a handle on masculinity and don't use no sissy helmets when playing football, no not soccer, real Aussie rules football.

I suppose it depends on what someones definition of success is. For me a successful & happy life is a hell of a lot more than grades.

I suppose the point of the article is, you can't have one without the other.

I suppose it depends on what someones definition of success is. For me a successful & happy life is a hell of a lot more than grades.

I think one of the points was you can't enjoy (be happy) doing something unless you are good at it. The violin teacher is not going to give you an F if you have learned how to play the violin well. The French teacher is not going to give you an F if you have learned how to speak French.

My youngest daughter cried real big tears that her terrible father made her study French in 2nd grade. A couple years later you should have seen the little lady chatting away like a magpie with her new French friends at her older sisters home in Quebec.

Later as a 16 year old living in Paris for the summer, she phoned to say, “Dad, I am sooo glad you made me study French.”

but the article suggests that it was the mother who decided what her kids should be good at. If making your children into proteges is at the expense of their childhood & the myriad experiences that go with it then I would prefer to have a normal achieving child with a more rounded life.

Shouldn't the article be "American mothers with Chinese ancestry are superior"? Or are they forgetting where they were raised. And maybe we should take into account the fact that millions upon millions of Chinese babies (in China, so real Chinese) don't even get to go to school and only have the Firework factory to look forward to.

Anyways, to me, this is just a typical "the way i bring up my kids is better than your way" and then trying to justify it.

I'm with Boo on this one and my daughter will be brought up with love and nurturing, giving her the chance to choose what she does and does not want to do (up to a fashion of course).

As I was saying before about the school that my youngest daughter attended from 2nd through 12th grade the parents were all involved.

PTA meetings were always packed. All the parents always attended. Asian parents, Jewish parents and I am sure many other nationalities that I could not readily identify. I knew the Jewish parents because they were mostly doctors from the local hospitals (my wife worked for a couple of them, cosmetic surgery assistant) and I catered their parties, home and at the hospital.

They drove the kids (Asian and Jewish parents) my daughter would tell us of the problems when the kids got nervous. If the children got less than a B they were kicked out of school. There was no other school of that caliber in the area so it was a big deal.

I had three normal daughters and one very intelligent one. It was also a lot of work for a parent being involved in all the activities of my one quasi celebrity daughter. I became known as Jenny's dad as opposed to Mark.

So I have experience with both kinds of upbringing. 3 normal and one special. The special one got pushed harder than the normal ones because she had more talent. She and her sisters knew it. It was no secret. Everyone expected more from her since she was 7 years old.

After college she went to the Big Apple. Where else would she go?

I'll ask her the next time we communicate in writing if she is glad we pushed her. I look at her facebook page and it is the silly kind of stuff one would expect from a 25 year old woman. She got a boob job too. I thought that was a bit much but her mother being the plastic surgery queen I guess it is understandable.

So from my experience Asian mothers and Jewish doctors push their kids hard. My daughter dated one of the Jewish doctors sons for 5 years. The kid was a brain, well mannered and obviously going to be very successful (Wharton business school). I wanted her to marry him. She blew him off after she moved to NYC.

Do kids with talent naturally rise to the top without parental pushing? I would say no. But what the heck do I know. I retired to Thailand and have a lifestyle that is questionable at best.

It doesn't appear to work for everybody though...

MARTIN HONG, an Australian-born Chinese, recognises the portrait of the drill sergeant mother painted in Amy Chua's controversial book. ''That was my childhood,'' says Hong, 25, of Kirribilli, who works in marketing and as a part-time actor.

Uh oh

My cousin is exception at maths & physics, he went to a uni specializing in a combines maths/physics degree, there were about 20 students in the whole class it's that hard but at school he needed a private tutor just to gt through english lit, he just didn't get it & even today struggles. If I read the article correctly he would have been seen as a failure by this chinese/american mother & probably picked on & made to feel a failure because of it.

His own mother thankfully did enough to get him through his English exams without ruining his chances to do well at his exceptional subject but understood that he was a human being not a machine so was raised to enjoy sport, music & all the other things that kids like to do. Today at 25 he has a close nit circle of friend, a very active social life (too active according to my aunt), likes to travel as often as he can afford, & has just finished a years contract at the UN & his career interestingly seems to be moving towards the home office/foreign office direction as he really enjoys interacting with people rather than going into math/physics academia. Kids are just small people, they have their own personalities & abilities & should be raised & treated accordingly not as some kind of high achiever/genius conveyor belt.

I don't know of any examples of children who were forced to get A's being warped. I do know a lot of examples of people being illiterate because they were not pushed at school.

I think the Chinese mother is saying, you keep working until you get A's.

I have a friend who is dyslexic. No way was he going to compete with others in Literature.

I don't think the Chinese mother thing references that. Some people can't do somethings no matter how hard they try and I don't think the article deals with that. That is a learning disability. I think you are confusing learning disability with lack of work or motivation.

If you can bet a B in arithmetic you can get an A, it is just a matter of study. If you can't get a D in arithmetic no matter how hard you study that is a learning disability.

At my daughters school the children took IQ and psychological tests to pre qualify them for study at an honors level. I would imagine most teachers could tell you if a student was not able to perform at an average level.

When I went to college everyone took placement tests in all basic areas of study. If any area showed less than normal college freshman level they were required to take remedial course work to bring them to a college level. I don't think this is unusual. I really don't think a college degree should be granted without proficiency in Math, reading, writing, history and so on. Basic skills that whatever the specific degree are necessary to perform in the work place or life. When one gets a BA or MA the world expects you to know how to read write and do math.

A trade school to be a plumber, electrician, deep sea diver or whatever some of those things might not be necessary but that is not a university.

If a child is smart enough to excel at academic subjects they should be allowed to. Instead extra curricular and social activities like attend a sleepover, have a playdate,be in a school play,watching TV or playing computer games and sports have taken the place of reading, writing and arithmetic.

My wife ripped out the cable TV hookup one evening after the kids got less than all A's and B's on a report card. No one watched TV including me. Until the grades improved. The girls got home every day and studied until bedtime. No TV no phone calls no friends over. That is what a good parent does. Remember I am talking about children who have the ability to get A's and not the learning disabled.

I lived and worked in Hong Kong for a number of years and did consulting for the school social work program for the Hong Kong government. I found it sad to read about 10 and 11 year old children who jumped from the top of their housing buildings rather than show a report card with a B on it. And the suicide rate for students was very high. I particularly remember a 16 year old girl who killed herself after getting her first B in a subject.

The time I spent in Hong Kong and in China were in many ways quite depressing. I seldom ran into people that were happy. It was like a billion people sucking on lemons.

I also lived in San Francisco and we had children in group home care because they were beaten for being failures in their studies.

Children need guidance, they need rules, they need pushing. They also need balance. They need to learn priorities and time management. They need to find their own path.

The sharp contrast comes when it comes to creativity, which is largely lacking. They are like horses racing to a finish line. It may matter how fast they go, but in the end they end up starting right where they finished.

Life is about the journey, it's about doing what you like well. Not doing what your mother likes well.

I lived and worked in Hong Kong for a number of years and did consulting for the school social work program for the Hong Kong government. I found it sad to read about 10 and 11 year old children who jumped from the top of their housing buildings rather than show a report card with a B on it. And the suicide rate for students was very high. I particularly remember a 16 year old girl who killed herself after getting her first B in a subject.

The time I spent in Hong Kong and in China were in many ways quite depressing. I seldom ran into people that were happy. It was like a billion people sucking on lemons.

I also lived in San Francisco and we had children in group home care because they were beaten for being failures in their studies.

Children need guidance, they need rules, they need pushing. They also need balance. They need to learn priorities and time management. They need to find their own path.

The sharp contrast comes when it comes to creativity, which is largely lacking. They are like horses racing to a finish line. It may matter how fast they go, but in the end they end up starting right where they finished.

Life is about the journey, it's about doing what you like well. Not doing what your mother likes well.

Or there is the Thai way which the parents don't give a **** and the kids are still not creative.

If a child is smart enough to excel at academic subjects they should be allowed to. Instead extra curricular and social activities like attend a sleepover, have a playdate,be in a school play,watching TV or playing computer games and sports have taken the place of reading, writing and arithmetic.

Where have these things taken place of being able to read or do math? It is quite possible for a normal well rounded & academically successful child to have a balance of all these facets of life & growing up. Socialization & getting involved in non academinc areas is also part of a childs education.

Preventing a child from ever having fun or non academic social interactions in order to get a higher grade is basically child abuse in my view.

I'm not talking about stopping tv when a child starts slacking off but a parent saying these things are never going to be allowed is.

If you can bet a B in arithmetic you can get an A, it is just a matter of study. If you can't get a D in arithmetic no matter how hard you study that is a learning disability.

sorry mark but i disagree here,not everyone is the same & can excel in everything. If one of your kids had struggled with maths (consistent c grade) but was talented at art would they have been expected to study at math every night with no tv or development of artistic ability on the off chance they might progress to a B?

The question that has to be answered is whether you'd have liked this woman to be your mother when you were growing up? I don't think I would

^^^ agree endure, what a life.

Marky: Plenty of Thais take a page from the Chinese child raising philosophy, but many are as you state.

The thing is that parents provide the genetic information to the kids and this is a big determination of what they will be good at. Pushing your children a little to do what you know they can do well is OK. I have very limited musical ability. My kids, in spite of interest are pretty mediocre in music. No virtuosos in the family, no matter how much pushing.

In Hong Kong and to a lesser degree in San Francisco, you had parents who had little or no education who pushed their children in areas that they were not genetically gifted in to begin with.

And no, I wouldn't want her for a mother.

Interesting topic which could run for decades....

However, if one looks at the history and life of the writer, American born (from Chinese parents) Mrs. Amy Chua, (married to a Jewish husband*) many interesting facts can be discovered but I object to her generalisation and controversial view that all (or most) Chinese Mothers (parents) are pushing their kids for education so extremely as she paints.

I have seen quite a few Chinese families where her "pushy" style of parenting was not performed but also many families who were/are indeed pushing their kids (on mainland China more often only 1 kid) to study very hard.

We shouldn't forget that the competition amongst children in China and Chinese community outside the mainland is very -extremely- high and more so because this has a reason:

Bitter poverty....

since most Chinese families have endured bitter and long time poverty to such an extreme that they don't want to EVER experience that again and do NOT wish their children to face the same, and the only solution to escape (or re-escape) that poverty is education.

The pushy "Chinese Mother" syndrome as I would call it, finds it's roots in poverty and it is a nightmare for many Chinese families to fall back into poverty, ever again; a second proof for this fight against poverty is Saving Money:

Every Chinese family -and individual- saves money and that's at least 30% or more of their income, no matter how low or high. They save money for unexpected times and situations, something the west has long forgotten: save money.

Most TV members here were born and grew up in a relatively comfortable, luxury and safe environment and we have to go back a very long time in the west (to the very poor life style circumstances in the "20, '30's and beyond until after WWII of last century) to even "find" this extreme poverty. I'm not talking about individual cases but the masses.

The Chinese poverty I'm talking about is very recent, only a matter of one or two decades ago whilst at least 300-400 million Chinese still live in poverty.

I doubt however if Mrs Ay Chua knew about this poverty since her -very high educated- parents were living in the Philippines and emigrated to the US later. But I'm sure her (grand)-parents knew about that poverty very well.

* Chua, whose ethnic Chinese parents emigrated to the United States from the Philippines, published her third book, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, in 2011.^[3][4] The book is a memoir in which Chua explains her views on parenting, specifically as it relates to her claims of being a typical Chinese parent. Chua, whose husband is Jewish, has stated that her children can speak Chinese, and they are "raised Jewish".^[5]

^{From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Chua}

^NOTE:

In Defense of Laissez-Faire Parenting

"Call me the anti-Chua."

From: http://blogs.wsj.com...EYWORDS=AMY+CHU

^LaoPo

Darn it LaoPo, I knew what I was going to say and when I got to the last post, you had already said it.

How many generations, even in Western society, since kids had to work as soon as they could?

A few years in a parish or church school, if they were lucky, RR&R with a lot of R for religion thrown in then off to work. First in agriculture then the Industrial Revolution came in and kids were the right size for all sorts of good jobs, and cheap as well.

It would have been worse in China, and would have still been around early last century, no school, work yourself to death at an early age.

I dare say that a lot Chinese mothers consider missing a few sleepovers pretty small potatoes compared to that.

You make an interesting point. My parents were raised during the great depression. Their attitude was much different than mine. However, regarding education I went to the same kind of tough school with the same kind of no nonsense kind of teachers as my father. I would not let my children go to a Catholic school because of deep seated problems that it created for me. But the overall idea of academics before social conditioning remained in my mind.

I had a roommate in college from Georgia. He entered college two years behind me academically. I watched him struggle with concepts I had mastered two years before in high school. I went out and partied because the first two years in college for me were only a repeat of things I had learned in high school It all came out in the wash and after two years we were on equal footing.

I have tried to tell my children to take advantage of the head start they got by going to a good high school. One listened out of 4. Or maybe I wasn't tough enough. But the kids are OK and didn't jump out of windows. My mother stayed married to my father because she didn't have any alternatives. I didn't want my daughters in the same situation. I wanted them to have an education that could provide a career if they chose to be single or if they didn't like their marriage.

It is difficult to impress upon a 16 year old the importance of a future career. Parents! What do they know? Few people appreciate the knowledge that comes from age and experience at any age anyway. I used to fly a lot of helicopters. I had a choice of pilots. Young, recent training and sharp reflexes or old and experienced. Which would you choose?

The tiger mom is certainly not new wave. I think she embodies a rather old fashioned approach to child rearing.

I am more like this chinese mother than not, though I'd say she is way OTT in some areas. Fortunately my lack of personal balance in this regard is well compensated for by my wife, who is ironically a chinese mother (though fully Thai enculturated). The blessing I've received from my rather single minded pursuit of academic excellence is that I can give it up finally. My girls no longer do their best, and certainly better than they imagined they could do, to please me. They now set their own goals, which in many case are higher than mine ever were, in order to please themselves. That's all i could ever ask for.

All is not bliss however as the boys are starting to come sniffing around. It's always something!

I am more like this chinese mother than not, though I'd say she is way OTT in some areas. Fortunately my lack of personal balance in this regard is well compensated for by my wife, who is ironically a chinese mother (though fully Thai enculturated). The blessing I've received from my rather single minded pursuit of academic excellence is that I can give it up finally. My girls no longer do their best, and certainly better than they imagined they could do, to please me. They now set their own goals, which in many case are higher than mine ever were, in order to please themselves. That's all i could ever ask for.

All is not bliss however as the boys are starting to come sniffing around. It's always something!

Now, THAT's something to worry about....hormones

But, on a more serious note, going back to Mrs. Amy Chua, I have a strange feeling in my mouth when I just read this:

"Reaction by Chua's daughter Sophia

18-year-old Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld says her mother's "tough love" parenting methods raised her to be an independent thinker who makes the most of new opportunities.

On January 17 an open letter from Chua's eldest daughter, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld, to her mother was published in the New York Post.^[20] Sophia's letter defends her parent's child-rearing methods and states that she and her sister were not oppressed by an "evil mother". She discusses some of the incidents that have been criticized as unduly harsh, and explains that they were not as bad as they sound out of context. She ends the letter saying, "If I died tomorrow, I would die feeling I've lived my whole life at 110 percent. And for that, Tiger Mom, thank you."^[20]

Wiki with a lead to:

From: http://www.nypost.co...eteY0u2KXt7hM/0

NOTE:

I have the feeling this whole story by Amy Chua is overdone and I have no doubt she has a wonderful and close family but in my mind it's all a bit overdone. Let's see HOW this works out since beautiful girls like daughter Sophia are chased after by hormone filled young chaps also.....like all girls are.

I wonder, would girls like Sophia have iPods...an iPad...a Mac ? No Twitter, No Facebook...no dating ?

Hmmmm

LaoPo

I am more like this chinese mother than not, though I'd say she is way OTT in some areas. Fortunately my lack of personal balance in this regard is well compensated for by my wife, who is ironically a chinese mother (though fully Thai enculturated). The blessing I've received from my rather single minded pursuit of academic excellence is that I can give it up finally. My girls no longer do their best, and certainly better than they imagined they could do, to please me. They now set their own goals, which in many case are higher than mine ever were, in order to please themselves. That's all i could ever ask for.

All is not bliss however as the boys are starting to come sniffing around. It's always something!

Now, THAT's something to worry about....hormones

But, on a more serious note, going back to Mrs. Amy Chua, I have a strange feeling in my mouth when I just read this:

"Reaction by Chua's daughter Sophia

18-year-old Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld says her mother's "tough love" parenting methods raised her to be an independent thinker who makes the most of new opportunities.

On January 17 an open letter from Chua's eldest daughter, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld, to her mother was published in the New York Post.^[20] Sophia's letter defends her parent's child-rearing methods and states that she and her sister were not oppressed by an "evil mother". She discusses some of the incidents that have been criticized as unduly harsh, and explains that they were not as bad as they sound out of context. She ends the letter saying, "If I died tomorrow, I would die feeling I've lived my whole life at 110 percent. And for that, Tiger Mom, thank you."^[20]

Wiki with a lead to:

From: http://www.nypost.co...eteY0u2KXt7hM/0

NOTE:

I have the feeling this whole story by Amy Chua is overdone and I have no doubt she has a wonderful and close family but in my mind it's all a bit overdone. Let's see HOW this works out since beautiful girls like daughter Sophia are chased after by hormone filled young chaps also.....like all girls are.

I wonder, would girls like Sophia have iPods...an iPad...a Mac ? No Twitter, No Facebook...no dating ?

Hmmmm

LaoPo

You don't sell a lot of books by not shocking peoplke's sensibilities. Of course she's not a Dragon Lady, but people buy the book to see if she is and by the end they discover she is more like them than not and that makes them feel good and ready to buy her next book.

I am more like this chinese mother than not, though I'd say she is way OTT in some areas. Fortunately my lack of personal balance in this regard is well compensated for by my wife, who is ironically a chinese mother (though fully Thai enculturated). The blessing I've received from my rather single minded pursuit of academic excellence is that I can give it up finally. My girls no longer do their best, and certainly better than they imagined they could do, to please me. They now set their own goals, which in many case are higher than mine ever were, in order to please themselves. That's all i could ever ask for.

All is not bliss however as the boys are starting to come sniffing around. It's always something!

Now, THAT's something to worry about....hormones

But, on a more serious note, going back to Mrs. Amy Chua, I have a strange feeling in my mouth when I just read this:

"Reaction by Chua's daughter Sophia

18-year-old Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld says her mother's "tough love" parenting methods raised her to be an independent thinker who makes the most of new opportunities.

On January 17 an open letter from Chua's eldest daughter, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld, to her mother was published in the New York Post.^[20] Sophia's letter defends her parent's child-rearing methods and states that she and her sister were not oppressed by an "evil mother". She discusses some of the incidents that have been criticized as unduly harsh, and explains that they were not as bad as they sound out of context. She ends the letter saying, "If I died tomorrow, I would die feeling I've lived my whole life at 110 percent. And for that, Tiger Mom, thank you."^[20]

Wiki with a lead to:

From: http://www.nypost.co...eteY0u2KXt7hM/0

NOTE:

I have the feeling this whole story by Amy Chua is overdone and I have no doubt she has a wonderful and close family but in my mind it's all a bit overdone. Let's see HOW this works out since beautiful girls like daughter Sophia are chased after by hormone filled young chaps also.....like all girls are.

I wonder, would girls like Sophia have iPods...an iPad...a Mac ? No Twitter, No Facebook...no dating ?

Hmmmm

LaoPo

You don't sell a lot of books by not shocking peoplke's sensibilities. Of course she's not a Dragon Lady, but people buy the book to see if she is and by the end they discover she is more like them than not and that makes them feel good and ready to buy her next book.

Agreed, and she also isn't aware -or doesn't talk about a (new?) phenomenon- a seemingly greedy group, the so called NEET (adult) youngsters: Not in Education - Employment or Training.

In the Chinese Eastern province of Jiangsu a new law has been enforced that this group of adult children can't force their parents to give them money (anymore). They even say that this group would be up to 30% of the total adult youngsters.

"According to the statistics released by the China Research Center on Aging last year, up to 30 percent of young people fall into the NEET category and 65 percent of families must contend with NEET children."

http://www.beijingne...et/story/734758

LaoPo

I used to work with a guy who allowed his two son's no dating until they had finished university/college.

He had been raised as an orphan and spent his teenage years on an isolated farm as a virtual slave after he was "adopted".

They could go out with friends but he said that nothing was going to distract them from what really mattered, a good education.

He used to work seven days a week at basic wage to pay for them and said that while he did that, he made the rules.