Pakistan in killing row with US

THE murky case of an American diplomat who shot dead two Pakistanis has escalated into a diplomatic standoff, as the US embassy demanded his immediate release and accused Pakistan of illegally detaining him.

US officials in Islamabad said the man, Raymond Davis, was a diplomat who had fired in self-defence and qualified for immunity from prosecution.

Bang bang

I didn't think murder qualified for diplomatic immunity.

And as to the second incident, with another car hitting a passer-by, if the driver was just that - a driver - then he has no immunity whatsoever.

In most countries now, I have a driver. I will not drive myself where there is a liklihood of an accident or vehicular offence, because, as a foreigner, I would not have the same treatment as a citizen of the country.

However, in Pakistan I would carry a weapon, as I used to in Nigeria. Whether to use it or not depends on circumstances at the time.

If I'm travelling much outside the province I use a driver.

My farang neighbour hires one full time.

Certainly saves on stuffing around looking for a park.

THE murky case of an American

Murky is putting it mildly in the case of that story

It would be cut & dried if he was in fact a card carrying diplomat

According to British Broadcasting he was on a visitor visa.

What would you pay a driver, full or part time? (ballpark)

It would certainly solve some of the parking problems I have around Patong, and relieve my anxiety about unlit ghost riders on the dark streets further afield.

(Why do those guys who can't afford light bulbs on their bikes go twice as fast as everyone else? Do they think it would be safer to get home quicker?)

What would you pay a driver, full or part time? (ballpark)

It would certainly solve some of the parking problems I have around Patong, and relieve my anxiety about unlit ghost riders on the dark streets further afield.

(Why do those guys who can't afford light bulbs on their bikes go twice as fast as everyone else? Do they think it would be safer to get home quicker?)

Can't help you with Thailand, but here in Vietnam I pay 5,000,000 dong (250 US$) per month. Full time - 60 hour week.

We have the same problem in VN, tail-lights of motorbikes are very often out - on unlit streets. Pedal bikes have no lights at all. Absolutely crazy. Suicide by stupidity.

That would be about right for a bit of light driving duties and car care in Thailand country areas as well.

Thanks guys. I guess it would cost about 3x that amount when you include the special Phuket zone levy.

Thanks guys. I guess it would cost about 3x that amount when you include the special Phuket zone levy.

One of the reasons I sold up in Phuket around year 2000.

Couldn't afford to maintain a place there when working in Saudi, and I gave up diving due to age. So sold up, bought a better place in Pattaya and had change.

For full-time living Phuket is much more attractive, but when just having an operational base to store all my spare kit, it works out too expensive.

I've good friends, relative newcomers to the Thai tourist scene, who love Phuket.

They're talking about buying a condo/apartment there and are all over me for advice.

I haven't been near the place since before the tsunami but from what I hear it might better to direct them elsewhere though.

Do you peeps want to know who this "Raymond Davis" really is, and what really happened?

Do you peeps want to know who this "Raymond Davis" really is, and what really happened?

Buddy of yours eh Alex? Or do you also work for the .....firm

Do you peeps want to know who this "Raymond Davis" really is, and what really happened?

Yeah, sure. Tell us who he is and what really happened.

Dear Chuck, do you believe this guy was an official registered diplomat?

Dear Chuck, do you believe this guy was an official registered diplomat?

I asked you first in response to your question asking..."Do you peeps want to know who this "Raymond Davis" really is, and what really happened?"

How could I possibly know?

My crystal ball has been down for repairs and my Ouija board isn't accurate enough.

Provide us the answer so we can sleep at night.

Fair enough.

A guy named Gerald,(I will not reveal his full name here) is his CIA handler. What the CIA has been doing now for some time is very similar to how these "Mercenaries" are hired by private "Security" contractors in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world.

"Mr. Davis" was doing some "Intelligence gathering" work in Pakistan.

This "Intelligence gathering" goal was, to look for people willing to blow themselves up in Pakistan

to create chaos and expand "The war on terror"

ISI found out and chased him. Mr. Davis knew he was caught with his pants down and shot the ISI agents following him, hoping the embassy people would be there to save him and get him out. The people driving the embassy car fled the scene as they hit and killed another driver of a motosaai and were afraid of being lynched by the locals (if they stopped their vehicle) as all of this happened in broad daylight with many witnesses.

But this you will not hear on the MSM as it is a bit of a sensitive issue.

You will not hear on the MSM as it is a bit of unsubstantiated nonsense.

Actually there has been some reports ( albeit from the Times of India US )

New twist in Davis saga, victims were ISI agents

New twist in Davis saga, victims were ISI agents

Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN, Feb 8, 2011, 08.00am IST

WASHINGTON: While Washington and much of the world continues to be transfixed by the drama over democracy in Egypt, an ugly sideshow involving spooks and spying in Pakistan is consuming the Obama administration, redrawing the security contours with regards to what was once regarded as a stalwart ally.

The Raymond Davis affair, as the episode has come to be known, has become not just curiouser, but also messier. The alleged private security contractor, who was on the rolls of the US diplomatic mission in Pakistan when he shot dead two Pakistanis in what he said was in self-defense after they attempted to rob him, is still incarcerated despite US demands that he be freed because he enjoys diplomatic immunity.

But it turns out that even as Islamabad is publicly resisting American pressure, a section of the Pakistani establishment has revealed that the two men who were shot were in fact agents of the ISI.

Meanwhile, Shumaila Kanwal, the wife of one of alleged robbers/spies died under mysterious circumstances in a Pakistani hospital after consuming poison, but not before she met journalists and issued a revenge call, demanding "blood for blood."

Pakistani officials told the Express Tribune in Lahore that the Pakistani government's "tough stance" on the whole issue was also a "reaction to the attempts by certain elements in Washington to implicate...the ISI in the November 2008 Mumbai attacks," including the decision by a US court to summon top ISI officials in connections with the attacks.

The incredible drama has greatly soured ties between US and Pakistan, with the growing feeling in Washington that its once-famed ally is now turning rogue. There is now a demand in some quarters in Washington to turn off the aid spigot vital for Pakistan's survival, even as there is pressure on the government in Islamabad to hold to account the US whose lifeline to its troops in Afghanistan runs through Pakistan.

For myself........I am sure we will never know the truth...

But a few things stand out

1) This man who is the supposed diplomat was armed & capable in a local registered car not a diplomat plated car.

2) The British have reported he entered Pakistan on a visitor visa & also had done so 9 times before.He claimed in a video after arrest that his passport was lost or possibly under the seat of the Pakistan registered car?

3) He supposedly shot in self defense while being robbed????

Yet he shot through his windshield 9 times.

hitting both the suspects in the back up to 4 times each ???

Shot robbers in the back while they were on the bike?

Was he already robbed & they escaping? Because that is the only scenario that would fit his being robbed story.

4) The other vehicle a 4x4 that came ran over & killed a 3rd person...... Where are they? Why did they flee? Why if they were scared of the local crowd have they not come forward since while under protection of the US embassy?

How about this analogy.......

An armed Pakistani driving down Pennsylvania avenue in Washington in a non diplomat plated car shoots in the back & kills 2 Americans & another car with Pakistanis tries to come to his aid killing a 3rd American then flees.

The Pakistani arrested later claims diplomatic immunity yet has not proof of entering the US on such a passport..........What would be his fate?

There is more holes in this Davis story than a block of Swiss cheese.

Personally as an American I feel the government of the USA is making a big mistake trying to back this one up. They should have followed the old IMF creed & disavowed any knowledge of this spook.

At a time when the drones are falling there it looks bad & may be interpreted as a false flag event & looking for a reason to now also move into Pakistan.

We will see where it goes.

Fair enough.

A guy named Gerald,(I will not reveal his full name here) is his CIA handler. What the CIA has been doing now for some time is very similar to how these "Mercenaries" are hired by private "Security" contractors in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world.

"Mr. Davis" was doing some "Intelligence gathering" work in Pakistan.

This "Intelligence gathering" goal was, to look for people willing to blow themselves up in Pakistan

to create chaos and expand "The war on terror"

ISI found out and chased him. Mr. Davis knew he was caught with his pants down and shot the ISI agents following him, hoping the embassy people would be there to save him and get him out. The people driving the embassy car fled the scene as they hit and killed another driver of a motosaai and were afraid of being lynched by the locals (if they stopped their vehicle) as all of this happened in broad daylight with many witnesses.

But this you will not hear on the MSM as it is a bit of a sensitive issue.

Everybody knows that. His name is Gerald Richardson. An ex SAS ladyboy at Stringfellows told me all about it.

For myself........I am sure we will never know the truth...

But a few things stand out

3) He supposedly shot in self defense while being robbed????

Yet he shot through his windshield 9 times.

hitting both the suspects in the back up to 4 times each ???

Shot robbers in the back while they were on the bike?

This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well. Except maybe Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up.

"Mr. Davis" was doing some "Intelligence gathering" work in Pakistan.

This "Intelligence gathering" goal was, to look for people willing to blow themselves up in Pakistan

to create chaos and expand "The war on terror"

That must be a difficult assignment. Kind of like scouring England looking for men who like to drink beer and watch football.

The latest, and this is from the MSM:

______________________________________________________

Pakistan Softens on Issue of American's Immunity

Tuesday, February 15, 2011

By Zarar Khan, Associated Press

Islamabad (AP) - Pakistan will tell a court that most of its legal experts believe a detained American has diplomatic immunity, but will leave it to a judge to rule on his status, an official said Tuesday -- a sign that Islamabad is trying to give the U.S. an opening to free the man while avoiding domestic backlash.

Raymond Allen Davis has been held by Pakistani authorities since he fatally shot two Pakistanis in the eastern city of Lahore on Jan. 27, and his case has become a bitter point of contention between Washington and Islamabad, two countries whose relationship is considered key to ending the war in Afghanistan.

The U.S. says Davis, a former Special Forces soldier and an embassy worker, shot two robbers in self-defense and that his detention is illegal under international agreements covering diplomats. U.S. officials have threatened to withhold billions of dollars in aid to Pakistan to get Davis freed.

U.S. Sen. John Kerry was expected to arrive in Pakistan later Tuesday to discuss the case with senior Pakistani officials, the U.S. Embassy confirmed.

Pakistani government officials have avoided taking a definitive stand on Davis' legal status in the face of popular anger over the shootout. Thousands have rallied against Davis, demanding he be hanged, while the Taliban have threatened attacks against any Pakistani government official involved in freeing the 36-year-old Virginia native.

Article continues here: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pakistan-softens-issue-americans-immunit

This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well.

Not really....any competent shooter could do the same. I dont think the bike was very far off left front of the car.

Pakistan Softens on Issue of American's Immunity

All else aside.....I would imagine his pound of flesh is not worth 2 billion a year in US scrip .....So am guessing he will be released

I had thought Pakistan would like to trade Davis for Aafia Siddiqui

Quote: This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well. Except maybe Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up.

Nonsense! During my time in the military I was able to hit three moving targets withing two seconds at 50 meters distance after some training.

Quote: Actually there has been some reports ( albeit from the Times of India US )

New twist in Davis saga, victims were ISI agents

You see I am not talking bull here.

Quote: That must be a difficult assignment. Kind of like scouring England looking for men who like to drink beer and watch football.

You mis the point I made again.

Quote: You will not hear on the MSM as it is a bit of unsubstantiated nonsense.

Please provide info on what you think happened and believe to be true.

What I said before is the truth, if you choose not to believe it , that is up to you.

Kind regards,

Alex

Quote: This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well. Except maybe Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up.

Nonsense! During my time in the military I was able to hit three moving targets withing two seconds at 50 meters distance after some training.

Quote: Actually there has been some reports ( albeit from the Times of India US )

New twist in Davis saga, victims were ISI agents

You see I am not talking bull here.

Quote: That must be a difficult assignment. Kind of like scouring England looking for men who like to drink beer and watch football.

You mis the point I made again.

Quote: You will not hear on the MSM as it is a bit of unsubstantiated nonsense.

Please provide info on what you think happened and believe to be true.

What I said before is the truth, if you choose not to believe it , that is up to you.

Kind regards,

Alex

I believe the story as I posted before the lady boys confirmed it and they deal with a lot of Indians who read the India times.

My only point about the shooting is if the guys were shooting back. I have seen a lot of marksman shoot when people are shooting back at them. Big difference than shooting at targets.

Quote: This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well. Except maybe Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up.

Nonsense! During my time in the military I was able to hit three moving targets withing two seconds at 50 meters distance after some training.

It is not quite the same when the "targets" are doing their best to kill you.

Unless these targets were shooting over their shoulder while riding a motorcycle.....it would appear by the holes in their backs that they were not shooting back. Not to mention no holes in the side windows of the car so they also did not shoot as they passed.

But....yes it is surely harder to be precise when copper jacketed lead is whizzing by...depending on many things as always

Quote: This guy must be the world's all-time great marksman. Even Hollywood heroes can't shoot that well. Except maybe Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up.

Nonsense! During my time in the military I was able to hit three moving targets withing two seconds at 50 meters distance after some training.

What military were you in that allowed its soldiers to handle weapons with live ammo?

Unless these targets were shooting over their shoulder while riding a motorcycle.....it would appear by the holes in their backs that they were not shooting back. Not to mention no holes in the side windows of the car so they also did not shoot as they passed.

But....yes it is surely harder to be precise when copper jacketed lead is whizzing by...depending on many things as always

Any idea how the back window got knocked out in the process or was it just damage after the shooting?