Will Advice

[SweatiePie]

...<snipped>...'I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally)...'

SweetiePie,

Your reply brings up my question:

I'd like my brother-in-law, a trial lawyer whom I implicitly trust, to function as the executor. My sister will be listed as primary beneficiary and

he as secondary beneficiary, should she not survive.

As he, like myself is a US citizen, would there be a problem for him to communicate with the Thai courts as he doesn't speak Thai??

Thank you

LD, you can name anyone you like as your executor/administrator. It doesn't make any difference if they can speak Thai or not (although if they can't you will need a Thai lawyer to represent you in court, for which they will charge a fee, so that you can be registered as the administrator); the process is very simple and, usually, very brief. The important thing is that you trust them, not whether they are a lawyer, can speak Thai, etc.

[BlackJack]

try thai888.com

english and Thai documents

fast efficient service

[gerry53]

I am the O/P and had a will drawn up by a local lawyer on Theppasit Rd (near Soi 10) for a 5,000 baht fee. This included 4 copies in English and Thai, one each for lawyer, executor, alternate executor and myself - all sealed. I thought the fee was reasonable as it included about 2 1/2 hours of consultation. I appreciate others recommendations but I felt more comfortable with a lawyer familiar with Thai and the legal system here drawing up my will. I had mentioned peviously my bank would not just add her as a beneficiary, she would have to have full signing rights! The will is a very detailed 8 page document leaving no doubt of my possessions and allowing for future possessions should I aquire a new car or motorcycle. Identities were well proven with passports, Thai IDs and supporting documents and should I die I am comfortable my wishes will be carried out. Should I and my girlfriend die I am confident the alternate executor will proceed with my wishes. Thanks to all.

[melvinmelvin]

I am a (retired) Will writer with over 25 years experience with a UK firm of Solicitors. To put it simply, if you are a "Western" expat you must make a Will, drawn up by a Western lawyer in English. He will make sure it contains your required provisions and that it is executed correctly. Translations may be necessary after your demise, but the document itself will almost certainly be recognised by foreign Courts.

Of course, nothing is 100% certain, as you are all well aware. This is Thailand after all, but I believe my suggestion is the best course.

?????????????????????

When you say Western, I take it you mean UK?

What you say above certainly does not apply to "Western" countries in general.

[Spaniel]

How is this for simple. I have a condo in Pattaya registered in my name and a bank account at Bangkok Bank in Bangkok. All other assets are in the USA and I have a proper stateside will. I want to leave the condo to my 21 y/o son and the bank account to my Thai wife. Dispensing with all the "legaliese" would this do it:

Upon my death, I xxxxxxxxx leave my condo in Pattaya located at xxxxxxxxx to my son xxxxxxxxx, Thai ID # xxxxxx. And my Bangkok Bank account #xxxxxxxxx located at Bangkok Bank Ltd address xxxxxxx to my wife xxxxxxxxx, Thai ID #xxxxxx.

If either should predecease me then the entire estate will go to the survivor. I appoint my wife, xxxxxxxx, as the executor of my estate.

Will take this to one of the translation services to put it in Thai, get a couple of witnesses and sign it. Couldn't possibly get any simpler but is it legal?

[Spaniel]

Suppose I were to die with no Thai will. How would my wife/son legally get the condo and access my bank account?

[gerry53]

Suppose I were to die with no Thai will. How would my wife/son legally get the condo and access my bank account?

I am no fan of lawyers in any country but with your assets a 5,000 baht investment in a lawyer for consultation, 4 copies written in both languages to fufill your wishes seems cheap. The legal system in my home country confuses the h_ll out of me, here it is mind boggling. Having a will drawn up by myself tucked under my pillow would not allow me to sleep very well.

[SolarOhm]

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.

The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.

Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

[gerry53]

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.

The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.

Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

Please don't expect a meeting with me, your solution sounds too complex. Of course wills are for dead people trying to provide assistance to people they care about. I am not stupid enough to transfer my assets to a girlfriend who may not be with me in 6 months (no indication of this but we are in Thailand) - I protect my assets. I don't rule from the grave as you put it but if I am dead I won't have any need for my Thai assets. How much do you charge for your "solution"?

[SolarOhm]

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.

The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.

Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

Solutions depend on the actual circumstances and how involved your financial affairs are.

It is impossible to tell remotely - so if we never meet there can never be a solution - just a few suggestions as to the direction you should go in.

If you care to schedule a face to face at my office the first meeting can be at no charge for the first half hour. If it is at your office there will be a charge (payable up front for the traveling time)

Please don't expect a meeting with me, your solution sounds too complex. Of course wills are for dead people trying to provide assistance to people they care about. I am not stupid enough to transfer my assets to a girlfriend who may not be with me in 6 months (no indication of this but we are in Thailand) - I protect my assets. I don't rule from the grave as you put it but if I am dead I won't have any need for my Thai assets. How much do you charge for your "solution"?

[poanoi]

This will is made by me xxxxxxxxx

I revoke all former wills and testamentary depositions.

I appoint xxxxxxxxxx to be sole executor of this my will.

I give all my property and funds worldwide to which I may be entitled or over which I have any disposing power at the time of my death' date=' after my funeral and testamentary expenses and any taxes rightfully due, to xxxxxxxxxx ID card number xxxxxxxxxxx.

In the event of the prior death of xxxxxxxxxx I give all such property to xxxxxxxxxxx.[/quote']

I like that simplicity, and would only want to add one phrase my uncle used in his testament,

i'm not native english but i hope the gist of the translation goes through:

That which beneficiary receive from this testament shall, as well as the profit thereof,

remain private property in the event of marriage.

This property shall also not be part of division in case of separation.

Oh, and of course location & witness

Pattaya 2011-07-25 .....................

Witness

[prk888]

UPDATE

just registered my Will at the Banlamung Office next door to Police Station. Simple process if papers are correct. Need a medical certificate.

A word of warning though. If you specify specific assets (eg car, house, condo, motor bike etc,) then they can ask for the supporting associated paperwork. Keeping the Will generic and non-specific (eg any automobiles, any bank accounts, any property etc) then no extra supporting paperwork needed. They also insisted in having 2 Thai witnesses to witness both the Thai and English versions. Sealed the Will and retained it at their Office. Cost B20.

[coralia]

If a person living in Thailand on a retirement visa dies,what happens to the 800.000 Bt. that person had transferred to Thailand? Should that be dealt with in a will? Or do the children (assuming there is no wife/husband) inherit the money automatically? And in that case, can they take the money out of Thailand?

[penwithchris]

On this question of Wills, what would happen if I was legally married to and living in Thailand with my Thai wife, and she was to die intestate. Would her assets, which are composed of a house and land in her sole name, automatically devolve to me as her spouse? We have no children.

[schlog]

UPDATE

just registered my Will at the Banlamung Office next door to Police Station. Simple process if papers are correct. Need a medical certificate.

A word of warning though. If you specify specific assets (eg car, house, condo, motor bike etc,) then they can ask for the supporting associated paperwork. Keeping the Will generic and non-specific (eg any automobiles, any bank accounts, any property etc) then no extra supporting paperwork needed. They also insisted in having 2 Thai witnesses to witness both the Thai and English versions. Sealed the Will and retained it at their Office. Cost B20.

Medical certificate is necessary if you are 60 years up.

[Phil Conners]

Hm, sounds complicated and expensive for our situation. No complicated issues, never married before, no other people in the world who might dispute anything, our daughter who is not yet at legal age. Why does it need to be so complicated?

Can we just write "I leave everything to my wife/husband" and sign it at the amphur? (my wife is for practical reasons listed as owner of car, bike etc. so in case she was to depart first it would just make sense to do the will both ways).

[Tropicalevo]

On this question of Wills, what would happen if I was legally married to and living in Thailand with my Thai wife, and she was to die intestate. Would her assets, which are composed of a house and land in her sole name, automatically devolve to me as her spouse? We have no children.

I am definitely not an expert on this, but there is no way that you will get the land. You probably will not get the house either as that needs approval from a government department. (Sorry - I cannot remember which one.)

Please take legal advise on this one (and not from a family friend).

[sandgroper2]

Totonjoy, agreed - your will should be in your native language (although not necessarily "English" for all "Western expats") unless you can read and write fluent Thai, as I explained above at some length. It does not, however, have to be made by a lawyer (Western or Thai) and if it is made by a "Western lawyer" you should ensure that he is versed in Thai law - there are considerable differences, such as the trust laws which I touched on briefly, and a "Western lawyer" may not be aware of these.

I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally, unless you have no option as well as no friends) he will not "make sure ..... that it is executed correctly". If you have only paid him to draw up your will that is where his responsibilities begin and end; anything done with it after your demise is up to your administrator.

NALAK, I don't know which solicitor you finally used, but you did name a lawyer on 14 March; you are definitely not using me - most of my legal work is pro-bono, but when I charge my minimum fee to simply look at a case is 7 figures (baht).

1000000 bt, you must be in great demand.

[doofus]

Berkshire Legal (http://bbgi.asia/legal/services/will-writing) do professional wills for expatriates for less than 10,000 baht if I'm not mistaken. They've recently established a presence in Pattaya after several years in BKK. They are also doing a promotion on legal services here: http://shar.es/Wz7uQ

Disclosure: I know the boss at Berkshire but I have no stake in his business.

[Bagwan]

My wife and I have both made wills drawn up by a Thai lawyer leaving everything inThailand to each other. My wife has to survive me by 28 days or our estates are shared equally by her two children, or held in trust by my wife's brother until they reach the age of 25 years. Our house is owned by a company of which myself, my wife and her daughter are directors. My understanding is that since the wills were properly drawn up and witnessed then there is no requirement for them to be registered at the Banglamung Amphur. Our properties in Lomsak and our vehicles are already registered in my wife's name.

To get round potential problems with UK banks I had a friend send out a Will form sold by W.H.Smith and completed and signed it with two witnesses, neither of whom are beneficiaries, and sent copies to the banks. They have been instructed to transfer the credit balances to her Thai bank account on receipt of my Death Certificate. I have already obtained and completed the forms to be sent to the Department of Works and Pensions in the UK to claim Death Benefit and a reduced pension for 12 months so that all she has to do is sign and date them.

In the event of my death who is going to ask to see a copy of my Thai will? Cannot my wife simply use my ATM card to transfer the credit balances from my Thai bank acounts into her own? Who will be the enquiring minds into anything if the banks are not informed of my demise?

The Thai lawyer who drew up our wills made it plain that he was not prepared to act as administrator of Executor and advised us not to engage another Thai lawyer to act in such a capacity. He stated that it was likely that the lawyer would end up with more money in his pocket than he shared out. He took his stance as he was not sure that he would be able to resist the temptation to enrich himself from the estate.

I handled the financial affairs of both my parents when they died intestate and nobody asked any questions or worried me about obtaining probate. So why the fuss?

[Spaniel]

Their usually isn't any "fuss" unless someone contests the will.

[Mobi]

Do any of you Thai legal experts out there happen to know if a legally married Thai wife has any claim over her foreign husband's Thai estate, even if he makes a will leaving all his Thai assets to another Thai person?

Does the wife have any automatic rights, as I believe she would have in the UK?

[sandgroper2]

Do I have to write my will out or type it ?

[sandgroper2]

Went to lodge my will, left everything to son in oz, couldnt lodge it, had to hve copy of his passport.

[buzzer]

Hi,

Really good information previously - Thanks!

I, too, am looking for a recommendation of a Law Firm capable of creating a Last Will - for me - in BKK. I'm looking for competence without high expense . Doofus paid ฿10,000 and gerry53 paid ฿10,000. That is an acceptable price range.

Interestingly enough, I don't believe that the original post was actually ever answered (at bottom from jerry53) as the OP found their own firm in Pattaya.

First of all I tried to PM SweetiePie, as he, or she is a lawyer, and had some great suggestions earlier in this post. However, depending on settings, that PM may go unread for awhile.

Then there was a suggestion by the following for Berkshire Legal on Sukhumvit. However, none of their phone numbers were valid, which I took as a bad omen and dismissed them as a possibility. Also, two more legal firms I don't want to deal with are Sunbelt, and Siam Legal due to previous TV posters bad experiences.

Any suggestions you could provide would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks!

Buzzer

From Doofus

Posted 2012-01-11 14:37:57

Berkshire Legal (http://bbgi.asia/leg...es/will-writing) do professional wills for expatriates for less than 10,000 baht if I'm not mistaken. They've recently established a presence in Pattaya after several years in BKK. They are also doing a promotion on legal services here: http://shar.es/Wz7uQ

Disclosure: I know the boss at Berkshire but I have no stake in his business.

From Gerry53

Posted 2011-03-01 14:01:11

I am looking for a lawyer to do my will and last testament for my Thai assets and having my Thai G/F as the beneficiary, I do not want the Thai government to confiscate them. My Thai assets are only a motorcycle, bank account and an investment account at the same bank. I had been advised of a service near immigration that did simple wills and only charged only 5,000 baht, when I enquired it was 20,000 baht which seemed ridiculous. I tried a second Thai law office and they wanted 10,000 baht for Thai only writting and 15,000 if I wanted a copy in english also. Does anyone have any recent experiences and prices? I did a search and know you can do one yourself and pay for translation but feel more comfortable with a real lawyer giving advice. Does a Thai will need to be registered as in many other countries?

[gerry53]

I am the O/P and had a will drawn up by a local lawyer on Theppasit Rd (near Soi 10) for a 5,000 baht fee. This included 4 copies in English and Thai, one each for lawyer, executor, alternate executor and myself - all sealed. I thought the fee was reasonable as it included about 2 1/2 hours of consultation. I appreciate others recommendations but I felt more comfortable with a lawyer familiar with Thai and the legal system here drawing up my will. I had mentioned peviously my bank would not just add her as a beneficiary, she would have to have full signing rights! The will is a very detailed 8 page document leaving no doubt of my possessions and allowing for future possessions should I aquire a new car or motorcycle. Identities were well proven with passports, Thai IDs and supporting documents and should I die I am comfortable my wishes will be carried out. Should I and my girlfriend die I am confident the alternate executor will proceed with my wishes. Thanks to all.

Hi BUZZER,

I am the OP and my final price was 5,000 baht (not 10,000) as your post indicated and I think was a good value (but prices can change!). The legal firm I utilized was PJ Law on Thepprasit Road near the Soi 10 Thepprasit intersection (Ms. Panisama) for anyone interested about Pattaya and good english was spoken. I hope you find a reasonable priced lawyer in Bangkok.

[buzzer]

Hi gerry53,

I don't know how that happened. I distinctly remember you paid 5,000 baht, and writing it down that way. Also, I reread the post several times.

It wouldn't make any sense to talk about being willing to pay for a Will in the range of ฿10,000 and ฿10,000.

I meant to say ฿5,000 and ฿10,000. Sorry!

I need a Bangkok lawyer, but this site had the best info about legally accurate wills.

Thanks,

Buzzer

I am the O/P and had a will drawn up by a local lawyer on Theppasit Rd (near Soi 10) for a 5,000 baht fee. This included 4 copies in English and Thai, one each for lawyer, executor, alternate executor and myself - all sealed. I thought the fee was reasonable as it included about 2 1/2 hours of consultation. I appreciate others recommendations but I felt more comfortable with a lawyer familiar with Thai and the legal system here drawing up my will. I had mentioned peviously my bank would not just add her as a beneficiary, she would have to have full signing rights! The will is a very detailed 8 page document leaving no doubt of my possessions and allowing for future possessions should I aquire a new car or motorcycle. Identities were well proven with passports, Thai IDs and supporting documents and should I die I am comfortable my wishes will be carried out. Should I and my girlfriend die I am confident the alternate executor will proceed with my wishes. Thanks to all.

Hi BUZZER,

I am the OP and my final price was 5,000 baht (not 10,000) as your post indicated and I think was a good value (but prices can change!). The legal firm I utilized was PJ Law on Thepprasit Road near the Soi 10 Thepprasit intersection (Ms. Panisama) for anyone interested about Pattaya and good english was spoken. I hope you find a reasonable priced lawyer in Bangkok.

[sandgroper2]

Did my will yesterday, translation cost 300 bht, 3 spelling mistakes of names, so, have your translation checked before you lodge the will.Three passport copies of persons mentiond in will,witness fees and cost of lodgement, 22400 baht. (plus the 300)

[prk888]

I recommend to note well what sandgroper2 says about checking names translations. We've had several misspellings/translations (both of English & Thai names) not noticed at the time which although overcome subsequently were annoying/frustrating to deal with and lots of paperwork involved too.

[jimsrant]

Some excellent advice here. Thailands options are much easier than Europe but just like Europe it has rules of the dispersion of your Estate in the event of you not having a Will. You get out for nout.

Lawyers the world over believe in the sanctity of their role and protect it jealously, particularly to justify their exorbitant fees. Thailand is the same as the rest of the world. After all the will is written by a clerk who earns 500 to 1000b a day if they are really lucky. Takes one to two hours and then the lawyer looks through it. Decide what you think the expertise for that is worth to you.

Writing a will is about creating peace of mind and the most important criteria is what will give you peace of mind not what will give someone else peace of mind. The price needs to fit your peace of mind criteria.

Thailand does not have trust laws as do some European countries and particularly of course the UK. Therefore in Thailand they are not valid.

It is always best to have a will for each country you have assets in that you want to distribute assets. It saves a massive amount of time on death and reduces any complications dramatically.

A simple will can be produced for a low cost and in Thailand if the will is not contested then you do not have to probate it ie: register it with the court on death.

As in all things if you lack the skills pay someone you trust to do the work professionally.

Do you know two Thais of real status in society, If so, get them as your witnesses. Will contested, I doubt it very very much..

I have two senior Thai police officers and two prominent farangs who witnessed my English language Thai Will. No it does not need be be 2 just a minimum of 2.