Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[BuckarooBanzai]

But as I've been monitoring things, the indication is that they're going to use some kind of police truck mounted with water cannon... Almost sounds like the kind they'd use for riot/crowd control.

Have been trying to locate an example of what Japan has and found this.

Tywais - get a [#10171] You do not have permission to view this attachment. when trying to access your image watercanon.jpg (8.76K)

???

Edited March 16, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[jfchandler]

U.S. to review drug supply after Japan reactor breach

(Reuters) - The Obama administration will study distribution policies for a drug to protect against the effects of radiation as part of a review of the implications of Japan's ongoing nuclear disaster, a government spokeswoman said on Tuesday. The new review would reopen a debate sought by safety activists who have called for a greater stockpile of potassium iodide near U.S. nuclear plants.

Debate over the supply has become politically charged, even as U.S. consumers cleaned out some retailers of their stocks of the medicine in recent days with an eye on Japan's struggles to contain the damage at its Fukushima nuclear plant.

Currently 22 U.S. states have stockpiled or requested the tablets known by their chemical name "KI," to be taken by residents within 10 miles of power plants in an emergency.

Nuclear regulators and nuclear industry groups have resisted calls for stockpiles for people in a wider radius, saying planning is better focused on evacuation measures.

MORE: http://www.reuters.c...E72F09G20110316

Edited March 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

If containment fails, radiation plume could reach Tokyo: U.S. scientists

(Reuters) - If the containment at the nuclear power plant damaged by Japan's devastating earthquake fails, a potential radiation plume from a full core meltdown could reach Tokyo, a U.S. scientists' organization said on Tuesday. Japan faces a potential catastrophe after a stricken nuclear power plant exploded and sent low levels of radiation floating toward Tokyo, prompting some people to flee the capital and others to stock up on essential supplies.

The Union of Concerned Scientists also said a "jerry-rigged" cooling system at the Japanese plant would be hard to maintain if all workers there were evacuated.

Nuclear power and safety experts at the group said they were "very concerned" that ongoing activities at the plant would become more challenging for on-site workers. A larger radiation plume could travel hundreds of miles (km), the scientists said in a telephone briefing.

[jfchandler]

Worst case nuclear cloud seen limited to Japan

(Reuters) - In the worst case, any radioactive cloud from Japan's damaged nuclear plant is likely to be limited to the densely populated nation -- unlike the wider fallout from the Chernobyl disaster, experts say.

The 1986 blast in then-Soviet Ukraine, when the reactor exploded, contaminated large parts of Europe in the world's worst nuclear disaster. At the Fukushima plant, the explosive potential within the six reactors is easing with time.

"In the worst case, a radioactive cloud would not go that far up in the atmosphere," said Jan Beranek, head of environmental group Greenpeace's International Nuclear Campaign.

"That is good news for the world, but bad news for Japan."

Despite assurances by Japanese authorities about low health risks, the crisis at the Fukushima plant has worsened since Friday's quake-caused tsunami, with desperate, unsuccessful attempts on Wednesday to water-bomb the facility.

"We are at the beginning of the catastrophic phase," Sebastian Pflugbeil, president of the private, German-based Society for Radiation Protection, said of Japan's efforts to pull the Fukushima plant back from the brink.

MORE: http://www.reuters.c...E72F6H720110316

Edited March 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Reuters on the lethality of radiation:

For cancer risks to be elevated, exposure would have to exceed 100 millisieverts in a year, experts say. To be lethal, the blast of radiation would have to top 5,000 millisieverts, delivered in just minutes or hours.

Measurements at the damaged plants are well below lethal at 400 millisieverts. That means unprotected workers may have been exposed to about four times the level deemed to increase the risk for cancer, or 20 times the annual exposure for some nuclear-industry employees and uranium miners.

"There are 40 people or so that are in the process of risking their lives trying to pump sea water into these plants. They are real heroes. If they get the plants full of sea water, then things will cool down and we'll be OK," Kemper said.

Edited March 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[elcent]

Japanese Leaders Leave People in the Dark

On Tuesday, five days after the Fukushima disaster, Japanese Prime Minister Kan Naoto, 64, finally lost his patience. He stepped into his limousine and was driven to the headquarters of Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) in the Japanese capital city. "What is going on here?" he screamed at the flabbergasted executives responsible for the out-of-control Fukushima power plant. "We are depending on you, don't even think about retreating -- pull yourselves together."

Desperation is spreading in Tokyo's government quarters. Finally, Kan has moved to create a joint crisis team comprised of his cabinet and Tepco executives. It appears now that, after days of confusion over responsibility and the constant downplaying and hush-up of the danger through Tepco, but also through his own government, Kan now wants to get things under control.

That is, if it isn't already too late. A short time later, Kan addressed the Japanese people, preparing them for possible new radiation leaks at the nuclear power plant. He said the residents located within a 30-kilometer (around 19 miles) radius of the Fukushima plant should remain indoors. Previously, those measures had only been imposed over a 20-kilometer radius.

continue here http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,751109,00.html

[Tywais]

Tywais - get a [#10171] You do not have permission to view this attachment. when trying to access your image watercanon.jpg (8.76K)

It's working for me. It's a direct uploaded attachment from my PC and not from an external site.

[SomtamFetcher]

Elcent, you can believe what you choose...

But the highest numbers I've seen today were the early morning measurement of 10 milli sievert at the plant gate...

Posted Today, 11:09

JFC note - interestingly, the NISA officials in their televised news conference didn't mention the 10 mSv figure at 10:40 am... They used a 10:30 am reading and then skipped to 10:45 am... See broader readings in prior post above.

Radiation briefly topped 10 millisievert at Fukushima plant

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo News

The radiation level at the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 [Daiichi] nuclear power plant reached 10 millisievert per hour at one point Wednesday morning, possibly due to the damage at its No.2 reactor the day before, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

The maximum level was measured at the plant's front gate at 10:40 a.m. It fell to 6.4 millisievert at 10:45 a.m. and to 2.3 millisievert at 10:54 a.m. but rose again to about 3.4 millisievert as of 11:00 a.m., the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

And then, this afternoon, the posts about the Japanese police helicopter flying over the plant, preparing to do the water drop, that measured 50 milli sievert and then bailed out... 50 mSv presumably because it was flying right into the airborne plume coming from the plant...

And actually, recall that the Japanese govt. just this morning granted a special exception for workers at the reactors to receive up to 250 milli sievert exposure... I believe the limit had been 100 mSv before... Obviously if it was 1,000 mSv somewhere, none of them could or would be there.

If I'm not mistaken, an exposure of 1,000 milliSieverts pretty much means you're going to die.

No, 1 Sv will not kill you. You will likely experience vomiting though. Even 3 Sv won't usually kill you outright. That doesn't mean you won't have secondary problems like cancer that will shorten your life, but the radiation itself won't do you in. In fact, you don't really start seeing large scale death from radiation until about 5 - 6 Sv, and some people can survive up to about 8 Sv. Beyond that, you are pretty much dead.

This come from a US study in Bethesda, MD when deciding how much astronauts can safely tolerate. The recommended limits set for normal people have a large safety factor built in, as they take into account things like being able to reproduce without getting a kid that has 3 eyes.

[elcent]

People are left in dark. A clip from a Tokyo resident. Complaints are since the last explosion this morning no more updates.

[jfchandler]

somtam, thanks for correcting me. spoke to fast on the fly. Yr info sound right and is line w the Reuters lethality info I posted above.

[elcent]

Aljazeera

Andriy Chudinov, one of the first workers to get to the Chernobyl disaster site - the world's worst ever nuclear accident - has applauded the crisis workers at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant.

"These are good guys. After all, they have had it even worse than we did. They had a tsunami first and now there are several reactors with problems. That's a nightmare for any atomic worker."

Most of the 64-year-old's colleagues died soon after they were exposed to huge levels of radioactive material following the 1986 blast. The Chernobyl accident released 400times the amount of radiation as that released in the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

[elcent]

[elcent]

11:33pm -Aljazeera"

Russia's state nuclear corporation says the crisis at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant "is reaching the worst case scenario".

[jfchandler]

I dont know why they would have to worry, anyway....

Theyre all in Pattaya, safe and sound... :-)

[elcent]

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

• Timestamp: 3:14am The US military has delivered high-pressure water pumps to Japan to help cool Fukushima's crisis-hit nuclear power plant.
  The pumps were ferried to Yokota Air Force Base for use at the crippled Fukushima plant, with four additional pumps delivered from Sasebo, in Japan's southwest, the US Pacific Fleet said in a statement.
  Rising temperatures caused by damage to the cooling system pumps during Friday's earthquake are cauding the water in the reactor cores to turn to steam, increasing pressure, and exposing the fuel rods.
  When the fuel rods become even partly exposed, the temperature increases rapidly, turning more of the water to steam, and increasing pressure even more quickly. When the rods come into contact with steam, rather than water, hydrogen is produced.
  With large amounts of hydrogen held in a container whose heat and pressure is increasing rapidly, there is a risk of an explosion, which may damage the containment vessel and allow nuclear fuel to leak out, spreading large amounts of radiation.
  The high-pressure pumps are used to re-fill the reactor cores as the water level begins to drop, replacing the water at a speed which cools both the rods and the chamber, reducing pressure and averting the potential for a meltdown.
• Timestamp: 3:07am As foreigners are urged by their governments to consider leaving Tokyo, many Japanese residents are not taking any chances and have started rushing out of the capital.
  Concern is growing in the capital that radiation leaking from the Fukushima plant, about 270km away, will spread. Many have begun hoarding supplies of basic necessities, in case they need to spend long periods indoors.

1:47am Al Jazeera's D.Parvaz (@DParvaz) has been in touch again, and sent us this photo from Tokyo. She tells us:

Shelves are never raided like this here. Notice the shelves behind, where candy was stocked, loom pretty full. So people are far from starving - but the basics, which require constant re-stocking, are low - due to some level of panic buying, but also issues with manufacturing and transportation.

[Maestro]

Praise for 'heroes' working to avert Japan's nuclear catastrophe

By Bryony Jones, for CNN

March 16, 2011 -- Updated 1833 GMT (0233 HKT)

(CNN) -- As the rest of the world waits with bated breath to see if Japan can avert a nuclear catastrophe, a small band of experts is putting their lives at risk to prevent the disaster.

Thousands of people living near the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been evacuated from their homes because of the risk of radiation leaks from reactors damaged by last week's devastating earthquake and tsunami.

More: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.heroes/index.html?section=cnn_latest

-- CNN 2011-03-16

[Maestro]

U.S. to fly spy plane over Fukushima nuclear plant for closer look

TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo

The U.S. military will operate a Global Hawk unmanned high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft over a stricken nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture, possibly on Thursday, to take a closer look at its troubled reactors, a Japanese government source said Wednesday.

Photographs taken by the plane equipped with infrared sensors could provide a useful clue to what is occurring inside the reactor buildings, around which high-level radiation has been detected.

The planned mission comes as the Japanese government appears unable to contain the crisis days after the coastal nuclear plant was struck by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake and tsunami.

It would represent a deepening of Japanese-U.S. cooperation in coping with the escalating crisis, with the U.S. military having already provided logistical transportation, and search and rescue efforts in the wake of the disaster that hit northeastern Japan.

-- Kyodo 2011-03-17

[Maestro]

Steam at Fukushima No. 3 reactor, massive water injection planned

By Miya Tanaka and Maya Kaneko

TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo

Japan's nuclear crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 power station showed no signs of abating Wednesday, five days after a mega earthquake crippled it, with the focus shifting to how to cool the possibly overheating pools that store spent fuel rods at the already troubled No. 3 and No. 4 reactors.

More: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78704.html

-- Kyodo 2011-03-17

[Maestro]

Edano:No health risk 20km away from plant

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary, Yukio Edano says the level of radiation detected about 20 kilometers from the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant does not pose an immediate health risk.

Edano was referring to a maximum radiation level of 0.33 millisieverts per hour detected by Japan's science ministry on Tuesday evening.

More (with video): http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_45.html

-- NHK World 2011-03-16

[Jdietz]

Sorry, was asleep for a bit. I see you got the radiation level reporting sorted, good job keeping all the confusion at bay.

To add and maybe repeat a few things:

Reports here: http://www.bousai.ne.jp/eng/ are in nanoGray per hour. Divide by 1,000 to get microSievert per hour(μSv/h), Divide by 1,000,000 to get milliSievert per hour (mSv/h).

Basically even the largest reported dose at the moment is well below concern level. (Horiguchi Hitachinaka City 981nGy/h = 0.9μSv/h)

Radiation intensity falls off at the square of the distance. So if you measure 100mSv/h at 1 meter from the source, it will be about 11mSv/h at 4 meters, 1mSv/h at 20 meters etc. So you can see very high numbers right at the reactor core, but you're still OK standing at the gate of the complex.

A total absorbed dose of about 1 Sievert (1,000mSv or 1,000,000μSv) in a short time won't kill you, but after that you really don't want to expose yourself more. If it is long-term exposure danger is less.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Jdietz

[brahmburgers]

It seems to depend on who's talking and when...

Sometimes it's Reactor 3 because of its plutonium fuel component...

Sometimes it's Reactor 2 because it's apparently had the greatest actual reactor/core damage.

Sometimes it's Reactor 4 because of fears about the large pool of nuclear fuel rods stored and overheating on its roof area.Take your pick...

It could be #1 as it's already suffered a partial core melt-down, if we're to believe an earlier report.

Also, there's an infra-red telescope orbiting the earth called Herschel (named after the British scientist who first identified infa-red spectrum). Could that be directed at the damaged reactors?

Addendum: am not sure if Herschel is still orbiting, since its launch in 2009, as a search online only seems to have news of its launch - and nothing after that.

Edited March 16, 2011 by brahmburgers

[Maestro]

BBC reports that a special police vehicle with a large water cannon has arrived at the Fukushima nuclear plant.

[Jdietz]

I don't think any space based IR detectors will have the resolution we need. Best information you'd get out of that is that it's bloody hot inside those buildings.

US is planning to send an IR equipped drone flying at low altitude over the plants, this may give better information.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78680.html

[Organicpete]

It seems to depend on who's talking and when...

Sometimes it's Reactor 3 because of its plutonium fuel component...

Sometimes it's Reactor 2 because it's apparently had the greatest actual reactor/core damage.

Sometimes it's Reactor 4 because of fears about the large pool of nuclear fuel rods stored and overheating on its roof area.Take your pick...

Hello, First post here, this forum thread has been very useful to follow the disaster, thankyou.

Did either of the reactor buildings that lost their roof also have the pool with 'depleted' rods as part of the structure ?

cheers

Pete in NZ

[elcent]

There's a little more hope now. Electric installation is nearly ready. TEPCO tries to build a road to unit 4 so that firetrucks can reach that one too. Every minute counts now. The American sent a drone with special cameras over the place to get more images and details of the damage.

.

Time's running out and Friday is absolut the deadline or before. Some experts doubt that there's a chance, they fear that the situation is already between a Gau to a super Gau now.

SPON

[Jdietz]

Hello, First post here, this forum thread has been very useful to follow the disaster, thankyou.

Did either of the reactor buildings that lost their roof also have the pool with 'depleted' rods as part of the structure ?

cheers

Pete in NZ

Hi and welcome!

All plants have a storage pool, but no mention has been made about the status / amount of fuel rods in there except for the #4 plant.

The #4 plant itself is fine, as there is no fuel in its core due to it being in maintenance at the time. However due to the maintenance its fuel rods were moved to the storage pool, which is most likely a bit crowded, which lead to overheating when the power went and lost cooling.

Plants #1 to #3 all had hydrogen explosions due to core pressure venting, and while the damage -looks- extensive, it is limited to the outer building. Except for #2 where it originated in the torus. (still outside the actual reactor vessel, but inside the containment)

[elcent]

I'm a little concerned about authorities keeping to quiet in their TV News broadcasts for the locals there. This could be a bad sign. Hope I'm wrong.

[elcent]

Some comfirmation of what was earlier mentioned in this thread, except the military website ban. Seems as if something is brewing too hot now.

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

• Timestamp: 6:07am IAEA officials warned Japan in December 2008 that nuclear safety rules were outdated and earthquakes could cause "serious problems" for nuclear power stations, according to a leaked US embassy cable, reports Britain's Daily Telegraph:
  
  The document states: "He [the IAEA official] explained that safety guides for seismic safety have only been revised three times in the last 35 years and that the IAEA is now re-examining them.
  
  
  "Also, the presenter noted recent earthquakes in some cases have exceeded the design basis for some nuclear plants, and that this is a serious problem that is now driving seismic safety work."
  
  

• Timestamp: 5:57am The US military has banned access to 13 websites - including YouTube, eBay, Amazon, MTV and ESPN [but not Facebook] on its computer network - to free up bandwidth for relief efforts in Japan, say officers at US Cyber Command. The Pentagon said:
  
  This action is in no way a reflection on any specific site or the content of any specific site ... [it is] in response to the needs of the military in a time of extreme demand on all circuits and networks in a region of the world that has been devastated by geological activity.
  
  

  The step was requested by US Pacific Command, which is overseeing the military's disaster relief efforts, said the Pentagon.

• Timestamp: 5:45am More from US NRC boss Gregory Jaczko, who earlier spoke in near-apocalyptic tones, has told Congress that he "strongly believes" the United States could "mitigate" the impact of a nuclear crisis similar to the one unfolding in Japan, if it had occured in the US.

//Edit: Source: blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/disaster-japan-march-17-live-blog

Edited March 16, 2011 by Maestro
Added link to source.

[LaoPo]

I'm a little concerned about authorities keeping to quiet in their TV News broadcasts for the locals there. This could be a bad sign. Hope I'm wrong.

According to European and American specialists in Atomic Energy, the IAEA -International Atomic Energy Agency- is best to be trusted and believed although they are also depending on Japanese info as well but have all the other technical expertise info available about all Nuclear factories around the world :

http://www.iaea.org/

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Some comfirmation of what was earlier mentioned in this thread, except the military website ban. Seems as if something is brewing too hot now.

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

• Timestamp: 6:07am IAEA officials warned Japan in December 2008 that nuclear safety rules were outdated and earthquakes could cause "serious problems" for nuclear power stations, according to a leaked US embassy cable, reports Britain's Daily Telegraph:
  
  The document states: "He [the IAEA official] explained that safety guides for seismic safety have only been revised three times in the last 35 years and that the IAEA is now re-examining them.
  
  
  "Also, the presenter noted recent earthquakes in some cases have exceeded the design basis for some nuclear plants, and that this is a serious problem that is now driving seismic safety work."
  
  

• Timestamp: 5:57am The US military has banned access to 13 websites - including YouTube, eBay, Amazon, MTV and ESPN [but not Facebook] on its computer network - to free up bandwidth for relief efforts in Japan, say officers at US Cyber Command. The Pentagon said:
  
  This action is in no way a reflection on any specific site or the content of any specific site ... [it is] in response to the needs of the military in a time of extreme demand on all circuits and networks in a region of the world that has been devastated by geological activity.
  
  

  The step was requested by US Pacific Command, which is overseeing the military's disaster relief efforts, said the Pentagon.

• Timestamp: 5:45am More from US NRC boss Gregory Jaczko, who earlier spoke in near-apocalyptic tones, has told Congress that he "strongly believes" the United States could "mitigate" the impact of a nuclear crisis similar to the one unfolding in Japan, if it had occured in the US.

Which website are you quoting from Elcent and WHICH DATE(s) ?

LaoPo