Actually it's the supporters of no campaign finance reform. The lobbyists, the PACS, the corporations to include defense contractors, finance companies, energy companies, industrial and pharmaceuticals, interest groups foreign and domestic. They get a huge return on their investment buying politicians of all parties. Everything in America is for sale, and dam_n cheap too.

Actually it's the supporters of no campaign finance reform. The lobbyists, the PACS, the corporations to include defense contractors, finance companies, energy companies, industrial and pharmaceuticals, interest groups foreign and domestic. They get a huge return on their investment buying politicians of all parties. Everything in America is for sale, and dam_n cheap too.

Top 20 Pacs 2009 Dems % Rep%

National Assn of Realtors $3,791,296 55% 44%

Honeywell International $3,654,700 54% 45%

National Beer Wholesalers Assn $3,300,000 53% 47%

AT&T Inc $3,262,375 45% 55%

Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $2,993,373 98% 2%

American Bankers Assn $2,870,154 32% 68%

American Assn for Justice $2,820,500 97% 3%

Operating Engineers Union $2,789,220 88% 11%

National Auto Dealers Assn $2,483,400 44% 55%

International Assn of Fire Fighters $2,372,500 82% 18%

Credit Union National Assn $2,367,846 57% 43%

American Federation of Teachers $2,361,250 99% 0%

Teamsters Union $2,330,900 97% 2%

American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $2,314,000 99% 0%

Carpenters & Joiners Union $2,275,375 88% 12%

Laborers Union $2,220,500 96% 4%

Boeing Co $2,215,000 53% 47%

National Education Assn $2,169,800 95% 4%

American Crystal Sugar $2,147,500 68% 32%

National Assn of Home Builders $2,131,000 37% 63%

Actually it's the supporters of no campaign finance reform. The lobbyists, the PACS, the corporations to include defense contractors, finance companies, energy companies, industrial and pharmaceuticals, interest groups foreign and domestic. They get a huge return on their investment buying politicians of all parties. Everything in America is for sale, and dam_n cheap too.

Top 20 Pacs 2009 Dems % Rep%

National Assn of Realtors $3,791,296 55% 44%

Honeywell International $3,654,700 54% 45%

National Beer Wholesalers Assn $3,300,000 53% 47%

AT&T Inc $3,262,375 45% 55%

Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $2,993,373 98% 2%

American Bankers Assn $2,870,154 32% 68%

American Assn for Justice $2,820,500 97% 3%

Operating Engineers Union $2,789,220 88% 11%

National Auto Dealers Assn $2,483,400 44% 55%

International Assn of Fire Fighters $2,372,500 82% 18%

Credit Union National Assn $2,367,846 57% 43%

American Federation of Teachers $2,361,250 99% 0%

Teamsters Union $2,330,900 97% 2%

American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $2,314,000 99% 0%

Carpenters & Joiners Union $2,275,375 88% 12%

Laborers Union $2,220,500 96% 4%

Boeing Co $2,215,000 53% 47%

National Education Assn $2,169,800 95% 4%

American Crystal Sugar $2,147,500 68% 32%

National Assn of Home Builders $2,131,000 37% 63%

Source?

Interesting is that the Beer Wholesalers seem to have no preferences and 'invest' their money most balanced. Meanwhile the silly unions think that it would make a difference.

The American Association for Justice is also known as The Association of Trial Lawyers of America. One major reason the Democrats did not include tort reform in Obamacare.

Spreading the numbers from the labor unions, it seems the Democrats received $20,537,912 and the Republicans took in $1,289,006.

The unions are run by a bunch of thugs. Is it any wonder they have Obama in their pocket?

Edit in: Following is a list of the top 20 PAC contributors to the Democrats in 2009/2010. Anybody notice a trend here?

____________________________________

Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $2,940,473

American Assn for Justice $2,738,500

Operating Engineers Union $2,459,220

American Federation of Teachers $2,348,750

American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $2,299,500

Teamsters Union $2,263,400

Laborers Union $2,127,000

National Assn of Realtors $2,096,499

National Education Assn $2,060,500

Carpenters & Joiners Union $1,999,125

Honeywell International $1,982,500

Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $1,974,500

Plumbers/Pipefitters Union $1,961,350

International Assn of Fire Fighters $1,943,000

Communications Workers of America $1,888,400

United Food & Commercial Workers Union $1,869,250

Service Employees International Union $1,844,500

National Assn of Letter Carriers $1,785,000

National Beer Wholesalers Assn $1,751,500

National Air Traffic Controllers Assn $1,691,500

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php

When everything really goes bad guys go to a bar or home and drink beer.

Perhaps the beer lobby is the real culprit. They give money to both parties knowing they both screw things up equally. Hence increased beer sales.

It things go well one goes out and buys an expensive single malt. Bad? Go home and have a beer and kick the dog.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

Everybody has an opinion.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

What are you using as a criterion to conclude that America is anything other than exceptional? And, while we're at it, please enlighten us as to what countries, if any, you believe to be superior, and why.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

Only a cursory check of American history will show that America was far more corrupt in its past history than today. It was also far less educated and drank twice as much alcohol and opiates and cocaine were legal.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

That is maybe all correct but it isn't controlled by the lluminati, the Juice, The Man nor the Martians. If the system is to blame its a collective failure. Dumbing down the choice of the people.

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

Only a cursory check of American history will show that America was far more corrupt in its past history than today. It was also far less educated and drank twice as much alcohol and opiates and cocaine were legal.

Look at the intellectual level of the debate and quality of arguments. I think zzaa09 has a point when he speaks of a Dumbing Down affair.

Obama is very intelligent.

Look at the intellectual level of the debate and quality of arguments. I think zzaa09 has a point when he speaks of a Dumbing Down affair.

Maybe you have a point.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

That is maybe all correct but it isn't controlled by the lluminati, the Juice, The Man nor the Martians. If the system is to blame its a collective failure. Dumbing down the choice of the people.

My point was that the dumbing down is not recent. 20 to 50% of the colonists were against splitting with the British Empire during the Revolutionary war. Either way you look at it half the country were idiots even at the beginning.

I would be interested in knowing how many Brits are dummies? 20%? What % of Americans are dummies? Given the population differences I suspect there would be more smart people by number in the US than say the UK. Also, of course there are a higher number of dumb people.

Of course the system is broken. It has been since the primary voting system was changed in the 1950's. The smart male Americans got their money out and moved to Thailand so they would not have to foot the bill for the defense of the Free World. I have advised my daughters still in the States to move to Sweden.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

What are you using as a criterion to conclude that America is anything other than exceptional? And, while we're at it, please enlighten us as to what countries, if any, you believe to be superior, and why.

Any and most cultures, comparatively. It's difficult for apologists to absorb, though. Mindless conditioning is everything, ya know.

Any and most cultures, comparatively. It's difficult for apologists to absorb, though. Mindless conditioning is everything, ya know.

Apologists for what? Dumbing down indeed.

The bottom line towards reality would suggest that any true alternative counter-establishment Presidential candidate will never be allow to rise. Same as it ever was. and always will be.

Agree with the the part that there is a lack of a true alternative and not much difference between Obama and all other options. Same as it ever was.

Not sure what you wanna hint with "will never be allow". Are you suggesting that there is a force that hides in the background and consciously controls the whole thing?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

What are you using as a criterion to conclude that America is anything other than exceptional? And, while we're at it, please enlighten us as to what countries, if any, you believe to be superior, and why.

Can we assume from your question that you think America is exceptional?

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

What are you using as a criterion to conclude that America is anything other than exceptional? And, while we're at it, please enlighten us as to what countries, if any, you believe to be superior, and why.

Can we assume from your question that you think America is exceptional?

No. I know America is exceptional. Some disagree. Often they come from third world or communist/socialist backgrounds - the cradle-to-grave-I-deserve mentality who quite possibly will never see the light. People who are self-sufficient, individualists embrace what America has, up until recent years, always stood for; if one has drive and initiative, nothing will stand in one's way.

Yes. And one doesn't have to be terribly observant, or even wise, to comprehend this. It's become rather a Dumbing Down affair, where the ultimate losers are the people. Contrary to the popular notions and fuzzy illusion that the American system {including culture and character} is somewhat exceptional and extraordinary, it ain't. In fact, the surface and deluded ideal that America is a prototype for "goodness and light" is yet another fallacy perpetuated and absorbed by most.

What are you using as a criterion to conclude that America is anything other than exceptional? And, while we're at it, please enlighten us as to what countries, if any, you believe to be superior, and why.

Can we assume from your question that you think America is exceptional?

No. I know America is exceptional. Some disagree. Often they come from third world or communist/socialist backgrounds - the cradle-to-grave-I-deserve mentality who quite possibly will never see the light. People who are self-sufficient, individualists embrace what America has, up until recent years, always stood for; if one has drive and initiative, nothing will stand in one's way.

I agree with you, VL.

Though, you can't expect somebody who learns everything they know about the US from television shows and the liberal media to know any better.

low income assistance plus unemployment compensation now equals 15% of the average american family's tax bill. education gets under 3%.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

low income assistance plus unemployment compensation now equals 15% of the average american family's tax bill. education gets under 3%.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

Spot-on k'joe84330.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

Just when all the European nanny states are going under. You would think that the left could figure that out.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

Just when all the European nanny states are going under. You would think that the left could figure that out.

well maybe this time it really really really, will be different.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

Just when all the European nanny states are going under. You would think that the left could figure that out.

why not take a look at some figures of European nanny states (before they go under ) and then compare them with the figures of the Greatest Nation on Earth™? of special interest should be comparing the latter with the "bankrupt" states Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain (aka PIGS) and then try to "figure out" something.

"Greatest Nation on Earth". Might that be akin to the Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Baily Circus - The Greatest Show on Earth???

Oh sorry, sorry that I forgot that those European nanny states are doing so well financially. What's a little citizen's riot or two every now and again?

"Greatest Nation on Earth". Might that be akin to the Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Baily Circus - The Greatest Show on Earth???

It is unfortunate that the very common often bash what they are incapable of understanding; concepts of freedom, conservatism, rugged individualism. Usually they lack character and are in the Dark Ages as far as development - exhibiting contempt for entities that are beyond their reach. They offer jokes in defense of their ignorance, believing that it establishes that they possess wit when in fact it proves they lack character.

sadly, the american work ethic and independent nature will soon be phased out for a european style nanny state. it's unfortunate really but all of these "poor underprivileged" are the political capital of the left and it won't stop until the house of cards collapses.

Just when all the European nanny states are going under. You would think that the left could figure that out.

why not take a look at some figures of European nanny states (before they go under ) and then compare them with the figures of the Greatest Nation on Earth™? of special interest should be comparing the latter with the "bankrupt" states Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain (aka PIGS) and then try to "figure out" something.

As I said in the financial crisis thread in the banking forum....That chart is sobering & shocking.

Putting aside the useless GDP which includes government spending & looking at the actual debt/revenues% makes one realize or should.

"Greatest Nation on Earth". Might that be akin to the Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Baily Circus - The Greatest Show on Earth???

It is unfortunate that the very common often bash what they are incapable of understanding; concepts of freedom, conservatism, rugged individualism. Usually they lack character and are in the Dark Ages as far as development - exhibiting contempt for entities that are beyond their reach. They offer jokes in defense of their ignorance, believing that it establishes that they possess wit when in fact it proves they lack character.

You're a real piece of work, VL.

Oh sorry, sorry that I forgot that those European nanny states are doing so well financially. What's a little citizen's riot or two every now and again?

These ever-loving managed Nanny States are not they way to go, either.

Oh sorry, sorry that I forgot that those European nanny states are doing so well financially. What's a little citizen's riot or two every now and again?

irrelevant remark as usual. nobody said something about doing "well financially". i presented naked hard facts which prove that the financial situation of the U.S. is much worse than some of the "nanny states"

before they go under

.