Chiang Mai, Loi Kroh Road

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They don't have a point at all; just they personally don't like going to bars, which is fine.

And objectively bars didn't get worse, they got better. And there's more of them. Go look at older pictures of bars from any era that someone might claim were the good old days; not exactly a Ms. Universe parade to put it mildly.

Totally disagree.

I am not a sexpat, just a normal guy who enjoys going to bars once in a while for a social night out.

Certainly cannot agree with you that the quality of nightlife entertainments and girl staffs were the same 10 years and longer ago as they are today. That’s nonsense. I know because I was around in the so-called good old days and can tell you it was a completely difference scene back then.

I’m with our jaideeguy all the way on this one. And in my experience over the years, the Chiang Mai bar and social scene has become only a remnant of what it used to be, the majority either gone downhill or closed and gone completely. How do you come to the conclusion that the nightlife and adult entertainment scene has improved in Chiang Mai?

Because there are more bars, and more people than ever before. And because in the Reggae area there is now a sensible after hours place that are actually very nice; that's a type of spot you won't find in Pattaya. You DO find it in Bangkok, but that's an loongg taxi ride that most people wouldn't be up for. Here you can actually walk, or grab a 40 baht tuk tuk. And because there is a bit of a convergence in some mostly Thai oriented nightlife and places that a Westerner might enjoy. That's an incredible addition too: the old Riverside Pub was never a party place for anyone but it is now, on weekends. And Nimmanhaemin was a sleepy residential road, where the only thing open at night was the 7-11; now there are pubs and bars down every soi.

And of course I was around in any time that I've so far heard was the golden age.. When I got here there were just two mediocre bars on Loy Kroh (Marin was okay, then, though very quiet. Linda was the same it is today, with largely the same approach to doing business. Most other bars were kind of sedate, other than Cosy Corner and the old Bar Beer Center at Thapae which was an incredibly seedy, decrepit place. (Fun though!) After hours there was Bubble's.. I liked it, though it was expensive for the time, with that two-tier priced cover charge they had for foreigners. Good place though, if a bit loud. And a bit later in the alleged golden age there were two strips of small bars down either side of the old Night Bazar buidling, a gay side and a straight one. Again perfectly nice for a drink and a chat, but objectively more than a little slummy.

So overall though to consider Loy Kroh downhill from Cosy Corner/John's Place or the nasty that was the old Bar Beer center, decrepit even, shows that memories do get better with time. But again, I enjoyed myself at the time, as I do now. And in another 10-15 years someone will be calling this here year a golden age, and I'll be likely calling BS on that, too.

You know what my fear is: that Loy Kroh will experience the same disaster that happened on a smaller scale in Bangkok in Sukhumvit Soi 7/1. There were some very nice, cheap, easy going little bars there, a bit run down, but comfortable and fun on a good night. They were all bought up by investors who turned it into posh looking knocking shops, with a focus on sex, but not fun. That's my nightmare. If that happens then I might actually join the people calling today a golden age, when the time comes. I like LK / Thapae just the way it is. And was.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree that the bar scene now is better than back in the early 90s and Chiang Mai looks better than it did back then, but, again, there were a lot more hot women around during the renaissance era of Western-oriented bars in Chiang Mai (1995-2009?). However, Winnie is right that it is not that bad now and he has photos to prove it.

[amexpat]

Distant memories of Bar Beer Centre in the early 90s, & LK in the late 90s. Even with beer goggles, don't remember too many "stunners". Golden age - never existed

Agreed, but the Go-Go bars had a heyday from the late nineties until fairly recently. Winnie let me have look at some of his photos and I agree that there are some real lookers out there, but still say maintain there were a lot more of them during the golden era.

Maybe it just depends on one's taste in women. The slim, fit, spinner that attracted so many westerners is now an endangered species.

I recall a few years ago a female tourist bureau official declared the then-current slump in tourism was because the bar girls were getting fat.

Some guys I know would consider that a good thing.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I agree that the bar scene now is better than back in the early 90s and Chiang Mai looks better than it did back then, but, again, there were a lot more hot women around during the renaissance era of Western-oriented bars in Chiang Mai (1995-2009?). However, Winnie is right that it is not that bad now and he has photos to prove it.

Aight, I think we're pretty much on the same page. And let me of course stress that at any time in the past I of course thoroughly enjoyed myself in the bars. But not a moment goes by pining for the old times, because I'm having just as much fun today.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Maybe it just depends on one's taste in women. The slim, fit, spinner that attracted so many westerners is now an endangered species.

I recall a few years ago a female tourist bureau official declared the then-current slump in tourism was because the bar girls were getting fat.

Some guys I know would consider that a good thing.

Ha, thanks for rescuing the topic, just when general agreement was about to break out..

(Wait for it..) :

Indeed I don't mind them a little chunky, but I do have a theory why girls were slimmer in the 90's. Not just in CHiang Mai but Bangkok and Pattaya too. I think it is because Ya Ba was rife, and cheap. Then the war on drugs happened, which caused a price increase that made the stuff cost prohibitive for many, along with the realization that it actually does a LOT more harm than good. One of the side effects of the stuff is that people just don't get hungry. Or sleepy. The downside was that people could at any time turn a bit psycho, of course. Ultimately I can't see any of that as a good thing, but it did result in staff that were slim and could dance all night. But trust me, less drug use is for the better, also for the staff themselves long term.

[amexpat]

How does that theory fit in with the rest of the world-wide obesity epidemic?

[binjalin]

I do have a slight 'sentimentalism' for the bars that were opposite Foxy Lady years ago - i really liked those as an alternative to Loi Khro (which i still like) they were ripped down years back

as for Loi khro - don't like it don't go - as i said before I have friends there and still find the odd 'diamond' and part of the thrill is IN the hunt

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Exactly. People in Pattaya can't help but lose their hunter-gatherer skills. It's just too easy, then they get fat and complacent. They'll be the first ones to perish, come Sanuk Doomsday. We retain our skills, stay sharp and alert. We are the Bear Grylls' of Thai nightlife, the chosen ones who will live to see a new dawn.

[daoyai]

I do have a slight 'sentimentalism' for the bars that were opposite Foxy Lady years ago - i really liked those as an alternative to Loi Khro (which i still like) they were ripped down years back

as for Loi khro - don't like it don't go - as i said before I have friends there and still find the odd 'diamond' and part of the thrill is IN the hunt

The Peak zone was always good to check after the more popular areas were depleted.......

[binjalin]

Exactly. People in Pattaya can't help but lose their hunter-gatherer skills. It's just too easy, then they get fat and complacent. They'll be the first ones to perish, come Sanuk Doomsday. We retain our skills, stay sharp and alert. We are the Bear Grylls' of Thai nightlife, the chosen ones who will live to see a new dawn.

Dawn? do I know her? but yes if she's 'new' I'd like to meet her please as 'new' recruits are my favourite 'experience' - don't care if her name's Dawn though

[OldChinaHam]

If you want to know what I think, I think the best looking specimens now go to ShangHai, North Korea, and Hong Kong.

Well I know they have been going to Hong Kong for quite some time. The ones there, there's nothing out of place or amiss about them, they are true beauties.

To buy them out for coffee used to be about USD600, with most of that going to the HK bar. I am not just fooling here, I did buy one out after I had celebrated way too much.

I recall this girl was extremely nice, nothing like the typical local bar girls in Hong Kong,

But that was about 20 years ago.

Time flies when having fun, even when having too much fun.

[cmsally]

Maybe it just depends on one's taste in women. The slim, fit, spinner that attracted so many westerners is now an endangered species.

I recall a few years ago a female tourist bureau official declared the then-current slump in tourism was because the bar girls were getting fat.

Some guys I know would consider that a good thing.

Ha, thanks for rescuing the topic, just when general agreement was about to break out..

(Wait for it..) :

Indeed I don't mind them a little chunky, but I do have a theory why girls were slimmer in the 90's. Not just in CHiang Mai but Bangkok and Pattaya too. I think it is because Ya Ba was rife, and cheap. Then the war on drugs happened, which caused a price increase that made the stuff cost prohibitive for many, along with the realization that it actually does a LOT more harm than good. One of the side effects of the stuff is that people just don't get hungry. Or sleepy. The downside was that people could at any time turn a bit psycho, of course. Ultimately I can't see any of that as a good thing, but it did result in staff that were slim and could dance all night. But trust me, less drug use is for the better, also for the staff themselves long term.

It could just be from having a 7-11 on every corner. Unless all you buy from there is the low fat yoghurt; you are pretty much doomed to an expanding rear end and the looming possibility of diabetes.

[beautifulthailand99]

Distant memories of Bar Beer Centre in the early 90s, & LK in the late 90s. Even with beer goggles, don't remember too many "stunners". Golden age - never existed

Agreed, but the Go-Go bars had a heyday from the late nineties until fairly recently. Winnie let me have look at some of his photos and I agree that there are some real lookers out there, but still say maintain there were a lot more of them during the golden era.

Maybe it just depends on one's taste in women. The slim, fit, spinner that attracted so many westerners is now an endangered species.

I recall a few years ago a female tourist bureau official declared the then-current slump in tourism was because the bar girls were getting fat.

Some guys I know would consider that a good thing.

They were probably pre-Thaksin drug crackdown - chewing yaa-baa tablets like smarties.

[muchogra]

I, for one, do not want to see Loh Kroh transforms into entertainment complexes full of coktail lounges, members clubs, etc, which require a few hundred grands to be a member like what Bangkok was in the 90's. It's like a status symbol being a member paying several hundred grands for a few bottles of Blacks and some escorts free. My friends paid 800k for a membership then he died with a couple of bottles not yet open. Don't know about the escorts though!

Keep things simple and let the Thai way goes with the progress without demanding the Western ways! It's no good for anybody, I say!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If you want to know what I think, I think the best looking specimens now go to ShangHai, North Korea, and Hong Kong.

Well I know they have been going to Hong Kong for quite some time. The ones there, there's nothing out of place or amiss about them, they are true beauties.

To buy them out for coffee used to be about USD600, with most of that going to the HK bar. I am not just fooling here, I did buy one out after I had celebrated way too much.

I recall this girl was extremely nice, nothing like the typical local bar girls in Hong Kong,

But that was about 20 years ago.

Time flies when having fun, even when having too much fun.

If this is Wanchai we're talking about then most of those are fairly ordinary looking. Even tend to be a bit older and experienced I'd say. Like you walk into a place like Neptune and chances are you're eyeballs aren't popping out of their sockets..

[OldChinaHam]

Well I know it probably was not a Kowloon establishment, because I recall at the time I was living in Kowloon, and had to taxi my way through one of the tunnels at sun rise. Sometimes it is terrible to be lying in a taxi at 6:00 AM, in stop and go bumper-to-bumper traffic, on the way home to Kowloon.

That is the nice thing about these places in CM,

There are no tunnels.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Hungry Male Ghosts,

Yes, I hear you, clinking the chains of testosterone past. Vainly attempting to recapitulate the fantasy residue of your hallucinatory hunter-gatherer past (when size really mattered).

Hmmm ... do phii preta exist in all four genders ?

All the wonderful expression, on this thread, of the higher aspects of male Homo Saps biological and psychic nature is most touching, but, it is about to be rendered moot.

Yes, I have it on good authority from a high-ranking Provincial administrator that all bars in Chiang Mai, involved in what is euphemistically referred to as "night life," will be temporarily shut-down, then re-furbished, and then re-opened, under centralized administrative control.

At this moment, a special task-force from several branches of Chiang Mai Jungwat, and Chiang Mai Amphur Muang, are at work on this project, code-named "การสร้างล่าสุดของปู่" ("Grandpa's Last Boner" is my working translation of that, but I may be way off).

All the re-cycled "night-life" bars will then have one generic name, followed by a number, making them easy to identify in emergency calls, and easy to display on special maps, and a future special 3-d multi-media web-site.

The post on this thread by "OldChinaOink" may have inadvertently leaked the proposed future generic name, "Specimen," however, I believe this may be just another code word, and/or a pun: since the sounds of "specimen" ("ตัวอย่าง") and "condom" ("ถุงยาง") in Thai are slightly homophonic. Another hypothesis would be that "specimen" could be a somewhat Tinglish contraction of "Special Man."

Putting names aside, since I cannot speak for the two minds inside me with one voice, and say, as Humpty-Dumpty said: "When I use a word ... it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less," it is the uniform design aspects of these refurbished sexual alms-houses for the geriatric foreign male that may be of most interest.

My source will only tell me that there is strong debate about the numeric classification scheme at this time, but he did say that all the new emporiums of earthly delights will have double-wide wheelchair access ramps; will have wheelchairs, crutches, and walkers, on site, as well as defibrillators, vending machines with both erectile resurrection pharmaceuticals, and their antidotes, straight-jackets, and gurneys.

Sounds like a solid idea to us me. "O tempora, o mores:" times change, demographics change: business must adapt ?

I can imagine it would be much easier for arthritic fingers to text: "c u 9 @ 42;" than to text: "c u 9 @ Whalebelly."

~o:37;

[OldChinaHam]

Now that I am actually able to recapitulate, the lesson learned is that facing a sunrise under such circumstances is really not worth the pleasure.

[beautifulthailand99]

Apparently there is science to back up why the past seems better than the present . For one who is back in the UK now after having my three months stay over winter you in-country guys moaning about this and that should maybe open your eyes and remind yourself of some of the many pleasures that Thailand is uniquely able to offer. Thailand to me is a bit like a women can't live with it - can't live without it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-markman-phd/past-less-intense-than-present_b_987726.html

[nikster]

Let me add some more for comparison.

Look at IanForbes pictures of Loi Kroh by day. I was in Bangkok yesterday and walked around the lower Sukhumvit area. Do you have ANY idea what, say, Nana Entertainment Plaza looks like by day? It's a certified sight to behold. And the Sleaze Explosion late at night? Any street in Chiang Mai including LK looks like sacred temple ground compared to that.

In NEP by the way, bars tend to charge 135 or even 145 baht for a small glass of Sangsom & Coke or a beer. Out on the street it's still a hefty 80-100. Of course you do get to experience the Tsunami of Sleaze for that. A mix of crazy young chicks, desperate old aunties, plenty ladyboys, a big contingent of African hookers, tuk tuk drivers thinking you might want a sexy lady or a body massage, and that in a steaming hot, grimy street filled with the trash of the earlier night market. Loi Kroh and the moat near Thapae? It's the Champs-Élysées in comparison!

You make NEP sound really great fun actually. Intentional?

I've a good Loi Kroh area massage run away story too.

I went to this weird barber / massage place near Ta Pae Gate / Starbucks, one of the tiny shops - God knows why, I just wanted to try them out I guess. A respectable looking middle aged lady led me upstairs. Then she left and in came a much older and much less respectable looking woman. Ok, I thought. The first 5 minutes her "massage" was already hurting me - not good. Then she grabbed my private parts and made grunting sounds! Regardless of the fact that I hadnt come there for that, and that if I'd come there for that then certainly not with this lady - in what world is a move like that sexy?? Put on my clothes, paid for the massage (200) and left as quickly as I could without running....

BTW the other places in my experience are totally safe; if they offer the happy ending - not all do - then they do it in a very nice way, and they have no issues with a polite decline. If that scares you, just go to the temples - great massage, very cheap, and guaranteed no happy endings on offer...

[beautifulthailand99]

If it wasn't for the bloody toxic smoke - I would spend most of my winter's in Chiang Mai for sure. The best overall place for a middle-aged + farang to live in LOS.The last two times I come back from lengthy stays in Thailand I have coughs and sore throats that seem to last forever.

[OldChinaHam]

Maybe your coughs come from too many rounds of golf in the fresh air.

Try a 3M respirator.

This may also have dual purpose if the powers that be in ShangHai keep sending down their guys who are also under the weather.

People seem to make too much, or complain too much, about the air pollution.

CM air is actually, I think, quite good. And there is plenty of sun. This is not really a true basin, after all.

If you really wish to enjoy some pea soup, you should go to plenty of places in China,

I can recommend a few if you wish to try out your new respirator.

[OldChinaHam]

Thanks folks, I just broke a 100.

[beautifulthailand99]

Well done OldChinaHam on busting your 100 cherry. There's always a worm in paradise so maybe I should stop thinking about the smoke as a reason not to come and live here.

Hyku wise words I have got many fond memories of Loi Kroh Road.

[Ulysses G.]

D. Get some naughty massages, and stop acting like a TV goodie two shoes.

Who could turn down such good advice?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Apparently there is science to back up why the past seems better than the present . For one who is back in the UK now after having my three months stay over winter you in-country guys moaning about this and that should maybe open your eyes and remind yourself of some of the many pleasures that Thailand is uniquely able to offer. Thailand to me is a bit like a women can't live with it - can't live without it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-markman-phd/past-less-intense-than-present_b_987726.html

That is a brilliant article! It deals with perceptions of people in their younger years versus when older, but I dare say it applies exactly the same to our collective 'second youth' after moving to Thailand.

Specifically:

When people make judgments about things, they usually do it in relation to something else. For example, when they say that a concert is excellent, they mean that it is excellent compared to the concerts they have seen up to that point. [...] When we look back on events from our youth, we are likely to remember many things as being excellent, or awesome, or brilliant. We just forget how we decided on their excellence or brilliance. With a broader base of experience as an adult, it takes a lot for us to be truly awed. So we decide that things must have been better when we were younger.

[Another] factor comes from the time difference itself. Quite a bit of research suggests that we tend to think about the distant past more abstractly than we think about the present. Lots of the specific things that are happening right now involve the petty annoyances that you have to deal with to navigate daily life. There are bills to be paid, stacks of laundry to be done, tests to be taken and errands to run. When you think about the past, those petty annoyances don't come up. So, all you think about are the great times you had.

BTW, I did start that topic in the Pattaya forum to see if the people there thought if it was better in the old days, with very predictable results:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/635144-changes-in-pattaya-over-the-last-10-or-so-years/

Of course, everyone considers the exact time they got to Thailand (or started going to bars) to be the best time, even though it's different for everyone.

[beautifulthailand99]

[CorpusChristie]

On 4/26/2013 at 8:41 AM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

So overall though to consider Loy Kroh downhill from Cosy Corner/John's Place or the nasty that was the old Bar Beer center, decrepit even, shows that memories do get better with time. But again, I enjoyed myself at the time, as I do now. And in another 10-15 years someone will be calling this here year a golden age, and I'll be likely calling BS on that, too.

 

   Whilst not exactly the "Golden age" , a lot better than it is today

[Bill97]

44 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Whilst not exactly the "Golden age" , a lot better than it is today

Go back to bed for another 7 years.

[ChakaKhan]

Just realize this post was originally from 2011, but I suppose its still relevant as to LKs current state....

 

I would ride down it daily on my bike to get the cat calls and see if the grannies were quick enough to catch me!