Oh, i woke up with my knickers round my neck...

Freud would have a field day with that one.

He was really good on " Just a Minute" but that was radio, so where he wore his knickers was always in doubt ( must admit it could explain all those sniggers from Kenneth Williams )

This thread needs to be taken back to the beginning so we can start again. Too many misunderstandings methinks.

But this is Bedlam!

ooops.......Black eye for the fish coming !!!!!

This thread needs to be taken back to the beginning so we can start again. Too many misunderstandings methinks.

But this is Bedlam!

ooops.......Black eye for the fish coming !!!!!

Ppppfffhut, phooey, and bring it on. You can hold his coat, but before you place your money, just remember that I have tits.

Moobs?

Oh, i woke up with my knickers round my neck...

Freud would have a field day with that one.

He was really good on " Just a Minute" but that was radio, so where he wore his knickers was always in doubt ( must admit it could explain all those sniggers from Kenneth Williams )

Not many people my age know "Just A Minute".....or "The Clithero Kid" and others of that genre. Growing up in tellyless Fiji of the '70's and 80's, (and we didn't have electricity anyway), all we had was BBC hand-me-downs to Radio Fiji.

We used to sit around the radio of an evening and listen to the comedies and the radio dramas....We had to save the batteries for the weather forcast, so the radio was only on in the evenings, and at 10 am on Wednesdays and Fridays for whatever BBC show was offered.

Them were the days.

Sorry to have gone off on a tangent yesterday.

I hesitate to wade into this touchy topic for fear it will set off a shit storm. There are many degrees of rape and none of them are good, but they can't all be treated as equal. There is the street assault rape that everyone first thinks about, but then there are all the various degrees of date rape. It's still considered rape but there are extenuating circumstances. A woman who is out jogging and gets attacked is far different than a couple in the heat of passion and the woman at the last moment decides she doesn't want to go through with it. Or, after having sex and before she gets her clothes back on, her parents walk in on the scene and she cries "rape".

I have a feeling that the policeman who made that stupid statement was taken out of context. There are many things that women shouldn't do (for safety sake) that a man can do with impunity. I'm sorry, but men and women are NOT the same. It may be unfair, but it is a fact. Men can get away with stuff that will tarnish a woman's reputation. A man can walk around a sleezy area at night without being accosted (except maybe by gays) whereas a woman might be treated much differently, and possibly even threatened. What she wears might have something to do with that. Is it fair? No. Is it life? Yes.

I hesitate to wade into this touchy topic for fear it will set off a shit storm. There are many degrees of rape and none of them are good, but they can't all be treated as equal. There is the street assault rape that everyone first thinks about, but then there are all the various degrees of date rape. It's still considered rape but there are extenuating circumstances. A woman who is out jogging and gets attacked is far different than a couple in the heat of passion and the woman at the last moment decides she doesn't want to go through with it. Or, after having sex and before she gets her clothes back on, her parents walk in on the scene and she cries "rape".

I have a feeling that the policeman who made that stupid statement was taken out of context. There are many things that women shouldn't do (for safety sake) that a man can do with impunity. I'm sorry, but men and women are NOT the same. It may be unfair, but it is a fact. Men can get away with stuff that will tarnish a woman's reputation. A man can walk around a sleezy area at night without being accosted (except maybe by gays) whereas a woman might be treated much differently, and possibly even threatened. What she wears might have something to do with that. Is it fair? No. Is it life? Yes.

Exactly.

By the way, when were you last in Soi Yodsak?

I doubt that there will ever be full agreement between men and women on this subject. The one sex coming in from left field, the other camped out in right field. Most men understand there own psyche and most men have a similar psyche - some control it easily, others cannot. But the underlying hormones, brain waves, whatever, are sending the same signals. Similarly women are broadly of the one underlying make-up, but it is not the same as a man.

We think in different ways, we have different basic priorities. To me the policeman was just trying to explain one of the causes of provocation that may lead to rape, and the feminazis seized on it, misunderstood it and twisted it. The guy was right. Provocative dress will provoke. Sit a child in a room with a box of sweets and he will eat them. When it comes to women, most men are still small kids - gimme, gimme, gimme. Women fail to understand this - always have, always will.

Moobs?

Not moobs matey......one day they will dissolve into moobs, but at the moment they are iron hard, rounded pecs.

Moobs?

Not moobs matey......one day they will dissolve into moobs, but at the moment they are iron hard, rounded pecs.

Oh Gawd - Ian's taken on another identity

Moobs?

Not moobs matey......one day they will dissolve into moobs, but at the moment they are iron hard, rounded pecs.

Oh Gawd - Ian's taken on another identity

Hehe...as I pressed "add reply", I had a fleeting thought that someone might say that.

Next I'll be posting photos.

We think in different ways, we have different basic priorities. To me the policeman was just trying to explain one of the causes of provocation that may lead to rape, and the feminazis seized on it, misunderstood it and twisted it. The guy was right. Provocative dress will provoke. Sit a child in a room with a box of sweets and he will eat them. When it comes to women, most men are still small kids - gimme, gimme, gimme. Women fail to understand this - always have, always will.

wow, so what your saying is because men are like children who aren't able to control themselves then women should cover up or else risk getting attacked?. imo if that IS the case then maybe men need to be locked up to prevent themselves from hurting others. Sounds just about as wrong doesn't it, as justifying why it's a womans fault she gets raped.

Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.1

73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.1

38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1

28% are an intimate.1

7% are a relative.1

More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.2

4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.

2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.

1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.

43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.2

24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.

The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.

The Criminal

The average age of a rapist is 31 years old.2

52% are white.2

22% of imprisoned rapists report that they are married.2

Juveniles accounted for 16% of forcible rape arrestees in 1995 and 17% of those arrested for other sex offenses.2

In 1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs.3

In 2001, 11% of rapes involved the use of a weapon — 3% used a gun, 6% used a knife, and 2 % used another form of weapon.2

84% of victims reported the use of physical force only.2

Rapists are more likely to be a serial criminal than a serial rapist.

46% of rapists who were released from prison were re-arrested within 3 years of their release for another crime.4

18.6% for a violent offense.

14.8% for a property offense.

11.2% for a drug offense.

20.5% for a public-order offense.

References

U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.

U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1997 Sex Offenses and Offenders Study. 1997.

U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1998 Alcohol and Crime Study. 1998.

2002 Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994 Study. 2002.

The average age of a rapist is 31 years old.2

52% are white.2

22% of imprisoned rapists report that they are married.

Rapists are more likely to be a serial criminal than a serial rapist.

46% of rapists who were released from prison were re-arrested within 3 years of their release for another crime.4

18.6% for a violent offense.

14.8% for a property offense.

11.2% for a drug offense.

20.5% for a public-order offense.

Wow.....So it's not men in general, it's the criminally inclined men...and drunk white ones at that, with their neighbours or relatives.

Moral of the story is no matter what you wear, if you're female out and about in a white trash neighbourhood, beware.

I'm white, often drunk, but have yet to rape my neighbour..........Dear Sibby, is there something wrong with me ??? ................................( apart from the obvious, but I have cream for that )

wow, so what your saying is because men are like children who aren't able to control themselves then women should cover up or else risk getting attacked?. imo if that IS the case then maybe men need to be locked up to prevent themselves from hurting others. Sounds just about as wrong doesn't it, as justifying why it's a womans fault she gets raped.

I know what you're saying..........but there is a "but".

You're argument suggests that Indians in the Sunderbans should not take precautions against tigers, and that Americans travelling to Afghanistan should not take precautions against kidnap or IEDs.

If it is a fact of life that there are rapists about, and if it is a fact of life that some of those rapists are encouraged by slutty attire.....then surely it is a fact of life that wearing slutty clothing carries a risk.

wow, so what your saying is because men are like children who aren't able to control themselves then women should cover up or else risk getting attacked?. imo if that IS the case then maybe men need to be locked up to prevent themselves from hurting others. Sounds just about as wrong doesn't it, as justifying why it's a womans fault she gets raped.

I know what you're saying..........but there is a "but".

You're argument suggests that Indians in the Sunderbans should not take precautions against tigers, and that Americans travelling to Afghanistan should not take precautions against kidnap or IEDs.

If it is a fact of life that there are rapists about, and if it is a fact of life that some of those rapists are encouraged by slutty attire.....then surely it is a fact of life that wearing slutty clothing carries a risk.

Says the man with moobs Boo. He knows what he's taking about ( sad really )

I'm white, often drunk, but have yet to rape my neighbour..........Dear Sibby, is there something wrong with me ??? ................................( apart from the obvious, but I have cream for that )

There's another important ingredient......being criminally inclined.

So, there's nothing wrong with you (as far as being a potential rapist is concerned anyway).

wow, so what your saying is because men are like children who aren't able to control themselves then women should cover up or else risk getting attacked?. imo if that IS the case then maybe men need to be locked up to prevent themselves from hurting others. Sounds just about as wrong doesn't it, as justifying why it's a womans fault she gets raped.

I know what you're saying..........but there is a "but".

You're argument suggests that Indians in the Sunderbans should not take precautions against tigers, and that Americans travelling to Afghanistan should not take precautions against kidnap or IEDs.

If it is a fact of life that there are rapists about, and if it is a fact of life that some of those rapists are encouraged by slutty attire.....then surely it is a fact of life that wearing slutty clothing carries a risk.

Says the man with moobs Boo. He knows what he's taking about ( sad really )

I KNOW you're just egging me on to post a photo. I won't do it because I know you will get too excited.....and you're not the person I want to excite, sorry.

dam_n !!!

Was it that obvious ?

I think the the assumption being made that revealing clothes increase the chance of rape is just wrong.

Personally, I'd be more sexually attracted to a woman who was wearing more sophisticated clothing. Not some 'slutty' rags that reveal all. But then, I'm unable to see things from the perspective of a rapist.

There are men who rape old women, young girls etc. The suggestion that women who get raped are raped because they are dressing like sluts is so outdated as to be neanderthal and extremely insulting to those innocent victims of rape.

I fully agree; last night I watched a horrible documentary about young South African -mainly black- lesbian girls* (this one 13 years old) who are gang raped and murdered afterwards; they do the same with young gay boys, bisexuals and transgenders.

The Canadian policeman -or any other person who talk BS about rape- wouldn't talk the way he did if HIS daughter would come home one day and tell her dad she was gang raped; she would be lucky she wasn't murdered. He should be fired or at least reprimanded by his superiors.

Teenage lesbian is latest victim of 'corrective rape' in South Africa

The rape of the 13-year-old, the latest such attack to 'cure' homosexuality, adds to calls for action – and retaliation

* http://www.guardian....pe-south-africa

LaoPo

So what some people are saying is there is NEVER a situation where a woman's own actions leads to her being raped. I can think of several without really trying. It seems some people are a bit confused. The policeman did NOT say that a woman SHOULD be raped if she took foolish chances. His intentions where an attempt to PREVENT rapes, not encourage them.

Using some of the same faulty logic I see here I guess a man who gets assaulted, for whatever reason, has never contributed to his own assault. I should be able to walk around in a low class black or hispanic neighbourhood in Detroit or Los Angeles at night, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't recommend a gay dressed up in drag enter a biker bar either, but he should be able to.

No Ian, nobody is saying that, but what some are saying is faulty logic based on zero facts to assume that a certain style of dress leads to rape when its pretty clear from the statistics of women getting raped in their homes (what now? time to watch what we wear at home too?) that the majority of rapes have nothing to do with clothing or location. MAJORITY. And while some rapes may be due to clothing its also very clear that its not that many.

Yes, of course women should take precautions but anyone can see that from the numbers that it is an exaggeration to suggest that its down to slutty clothes.

Also, I'd be curious who gets to define what is "slutty" and worthy of attracting rapists? Its all so subjective since what what one man finds slutty another man won't.

And honestly it smacks of blaming the victim rather than the perpetrator and I am sure none of you are so low as to think that a woman deserves to be raped, regardless of what she wears.

And finally, it just goes to show that many fail to grasp the nature of rape and seem to equate it with sexual desire when generally it has very little to do with sexual desire. If it were simply that, why not just go hire a prostitute? There are prevalent enough it shouldn't be a problem for any man to find one.

Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.1

73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.1

38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1

28% are an intimate.1

7% are a relative.1

More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.2

4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.

2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.

1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.

43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.2

24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.

The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.

The Criminal

The average age of a rapist is 31 years old.2

52% are white.2

22% of imprisoned rapists report that they are married.2

Juveniles accounted for 16% of forcible rape arrestees in 1995 and 17% of those arrested for other sex offenses.2

In 1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs.3

In 2001, 11% of rapes involved the use of a weapon — 3% used a gun, 6% used a knife, and 2 % used another form of weapon.2

84% of victims reported the use of physical force only.2

Rapists are more likely to be a serial criminal than a serial rapist.

46% of rapists who were released from prison were re-arrested within 3 years of their release for another crime.4

18.6% for a violent offense.

14.8% for a property offense.

11.2% for a drug offense.

20.5% for a public-order offense.

References

U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.

U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1997 Sex Offenses and Offenders Study. 1997.

U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1998 Alcohol and Crime Study. 1998.

2002 Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994 Study. 2002.

This appears to be a study in America, not world-wide.

Therefore the statistics (remember Churchill's quote regarding 'Lies, damned lies and statistics') are of limited value.

The racial mix is different to that of the UK, South Africa, Thailand (as examples), therefore needs to be read in context.

"In 1 in 3 rapes the perpretrators were inoxicated" "30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs" What were the other 66% intoxicated with? I have said before that alcohol plays a big part in this problem. How many of the victims were intoxicated?

No Ian, nobody is saying that, but what some are saying is faulty logic based on zero facts to assume that a certain style of dress leads to rape when its pretty clear from the statistics of women getting raped in their homes (what now? time to watch what we wear at home too?) that the majority of rapes have nothing to do with clothing or location. MAJORITY. And while some rapes may be due to clothing its also very clear that its not that many.

Yes, of course women should take precautions but anyone can see that from the numbers that it is an exaggeration to suggest that its down to slutty clothes.

Also, I'd be curious who gets to define what is "slutty" and worthy of attracting rapists? Its all so subjective since what what one man finds slutty another man won't.

And honestly it smacks of blaming the victim rather than the perpetrator and I am sure none of you are so low as to think that a woman deserves to be raped, regardless of what she wears.

And finally, it just goes to show that many fail to grasp the nature of rape and seem to equate it with sexual desire when generally it has very little to do with sexual desire. If it were simply that, why not just go hire a prostitute? There are prevalent enough it shouldn't be a problem for any man to find one.

As I have said above, there are the serial rapists and there is the 'date-rape' problem.

Sometimes the same guy, in which case it is serial rape.

With a serial rapist I would suggest there is no sexual content as such. It is all about dominance and an underlying hatred of women. (I'm not a psychologist or anything, this is just my view) Such men need strong treatment, probably in many cases castration in one form or another.

The one-off date-rapes are just as horrifying to the victim, but the perpetrator is not cast in the same mould. He may later turn into a serial rapist, but the first time probably affects him as strongly as the victim. And these are the guys who can be led into thinking that a girl is 'available' if she wears provocative clothes, especially in a bar or other place that serves alcohol.

With regard to the 'in-home' rapes, these are to my mind as bad as the serial rapist. Brother-on-sister, father-on-daughter, husband-on-wife, not acceptable at all. Neither is mother-on-son, father-on-son, etc.

This is all about respect.

But if a woman dresses in a slutty manner - does she have respect for herself?

I still support the Canadian cop for trying to prevent at least some of the factors that may lead to rape, or even just sexual assault. He wasn't blaming the woman, he was just saying that one should think before making a decision about dress.

Ragarding he 'victims of rape' I'd like to recount my experience of an event back in 1990.

I was a teenager living at home and on the evening concerned my parents had gone out for the evening leaving me to babysit the younger kids. At around 11pm I heard frantic knocking at our door and on answering found one of my female schoolfriends standing outside with her clothing ripped and in tears.

I invited her in and she was barely able to speak, to be honest at that age I wasn't possibly the best support she might have got but anyway I phoned the police who arrived within a few minutes as I assumed she had been assaulted.

The police took her from the house and sat me down and questioned me continuously for more than three hours without any break. I guess in the abcence of any other suspect for the supposed crime they thought I might confess to it....as I became increasingly belligerent the threats of charges and prison increased. Luckily for me my parents eventually arrived home and the interrogation ended.

I haven't forgotten the incident and never will. Was she crying wolf or was she really assaulted?

I never found out as she simply disappeared shortly afterwards but it left me with a 'say nothing' approach to policing. Also a belief in the right to suspects anonymity until conviction.

You're argument suggests that Indians in the Sunderbans should not take precautions against tigers, and that Americans travelling to Afghanistan should not take precautions against kidnap or IEDs

so what you are saying is that men are no better than criminals or mindless wild animals?

Hmm pretty sure if I had made these comments then the whining cries of feminazi & man hater would have been started already. funny really.

Individuals chose to commit crimes, they will commit them regardless so why does it seem that a lot of posters are still trying to somehow lay blame at the feet of the victim, based singularly on what she wears?

It's alot like saying that a gay man who gets attacked by homophobes was at fault for being gay near a homophobe, or a black man getting attacked by white supremacists is at fault for being black near a bigot.

If you carry the 'don't dress as a slut because it provokes men' argument to its logical conclusion then all women ought to wear a burka, no? How does that sit with you straight boys who seem to think that women ought to wear clothes to pander to your lack of control?

You're argument suggests that Indians in the Sunderbans should not take precautions against tigers, and that Americans travelling to Afghanistan should not take precautions against kidnap or IEDs

so what you are saying is that men are no better than criminals or mindless wild animals?

Hmm pretty sure if I had made these comments then the whining cries of feminazi & man hater would have been started already. funny really.

Individuals chose to commit crimes, they will commit them regardless so why does it seem that a lot of posters are still trying to somehow lay blame at the feet of the victim, based singularly on what she wears?

It's alot like saying that a gay man who gets attacked by homophobes was at fault for being gay near a homophobe, or a black man getting attacked by white supremacists is at fault for being black near a bigot.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it is a fact of life that SOME men ARE criminals and ARE no better than mindless wild animals.

That being so, it is a sad fact that there is greater risk for women if they choose to dress in a way that makes them appear to be saying "I want sex".

Someone (Ian?) posted a simmilar analogy, that of a drag queen entering a biker bar; Fact is he's taking a risk....just as a Bengali entering the Sunderbans is. Facts of life.

Perhaps if you had said all men are mindless wild animals, the misogynist whingers might howl, but I doubt anyone would dispute that SOME men are indeed a complete waste of space and air.