Triumph 350Cc Single.

[hehehoho]

Based on one cylinder from the 1050cc triple.

Parts produced in the Thai plant and assembled in Brazil.

Would be nice, bar the import tax.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/triumphs-small-bike--rumours-wont-go-away/17981.html#ixzz1M3w2Q8r4

To look something like:

[skybluestu]

Interesting, it suggests it could me made in Thailand, didn't see anything about Brazil but my phone's screen is tiny so could have missed it.

[katabeachbum]

Interesting, it suggests it could me made in Thailand, didn't see anything about Brazil but my phone's screen is tiny so could have missed it.

if its made in Thai BOI zone (where Triumph TH factory is presently) and less than 250cc it is free of importduty and excicetax, and could sell between cbr250 and Ninja 250. Cool

[dave_boo]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

[Richard-BKK]

I also cannot understand why Triumph wants to make a 350cc, who's going to buy it? O, the other hand if they could make a 250cc they have a huge new market of all countries in ASEAN and they have a factory in Thailand – they will sell much more 250cc in ASEAN than they will ever sell 350cc in Europe...

[katabeachbum]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

[BSJ]

What's that old saying about rumours....oh yer, like a$$holes, everyone has one!

Let me know when you've seen em in a dealership.

[Richard-BKK]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

A Thai made Triumph 350cc would fit within the special Japanese below 400cc tax system, but would not benefit from any free-trade-agreement – therefor it would likely be, due to import duties, more expensive than most of the 600cc's available in Japan....

The free-trade-agreement between ASEAN and Japan only specifies motor vehicles of less than 250cc...

Also who wants to buy a 350cc single-cylinder naked, if you can have a 400cc inline-four...

Edited May 24, 2011 by Richard-BKK

[Atmos]

Triumph have sprung a few surprises over recent years

who would have predicted the three-cylinder 2300cc Rocket? the 1600cc parallel-twin Thunderbird? the multi-award winning 675? the Tiger 800 Adventure bikes? and the overall longevity of their core triple range . . .

They have just produced their 500,000th bike in 20 years

Ross Noble Goes 'On Tour' To Celebrate Triumph's 500,000th Bike

Edited May 24, 2011 by genghis61

[barakla]

What's that old saying about rumours....oh yer, like a$holes, everyone has one!

Let me know when you've seen em in a dealership.

Opinions my friend,opinions!

[dave_boo]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

Speed Triple has a 79x71,4 cylinder. Using the same cylinder would necessitate a 50,79mm stroke. That would seem to indicate such an engine would need crazy revs to produce major power. The torque that Triumph is famous for would be out the window. As a point of reference the Ninja 250R has a 1,505:1 ratio, the CBR 250 has a 1,382:1 and the proposed 250 Triumph engine has a 1,555:1 ratio.

[skybluestu]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

Speed Triple has a 79x71,4 cylinder. Using the same cylinder would necessitate a 50,79mm stroke. That would seem to indicate such an engine would need crazy revs to produce major power. The torque that Triumph is famous for would be out the window. As a point of reference the Ninja 250R has a 1,505:1 ratio, the CBR 250 has a 1,382:1 and the proposed 250 Triumph engine has a 1,555:1 ratio.

Dave, I know you are on a par with Stephen Hawking when it comes to IQ so I don't like to question you but doesn't the 'triple' in speed triple refer to the number of cylinders? If so then using one of the 3 cylinders from a 1050cc engine to make a single cylinder 350cc bike would be viable would it not?

Edited May 25, 2011 by skybluestu

[katabeachbum]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

Speed Triple has a 79x71,4 cylinder. Using the same cylinder would necessitate a 50,79mm stroke. That would seem to indicate such an engine would need crazy revs to produce major power. The torque that Triumph is famous for would be out the window. As a point of reference the Ninja 250R has a 1,505:1 ratio, the CBR 250 has a 1,382:1 and the proposed 250 Triumph engine has a 1,555:1 ratio.

good point

but as reducing bore is more expensive, its still an option to reduce stroke to downsize to 249cc

[hehehoho]

The rumour papers do say it would be between 250-350cc depending on the region.

However if it is assembled in Brazil, then sent back to Thailand in one piece surely there'd be some lovely import tax thrown on top.

Now that some of the Kawa 650s can be had for under 150k second hand, it makes spending more baht on (a lot) less power quite a quandary.

[dave_boo]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

Speed Triple has a 79x71,4 cylinder. Using the same cylinder would necessitate a 50,79mm stroke. That would seem to indicate such an engine would need crazy revs to produce major power. The torque that Triumph is famous for would be out the window. As a point of reference the Ninja 250R has a 1,505:1 ratio, the CBR 250 has a 1,382:1 and the proposed 250 Triumph engine has a 1,555:1 ratio.

Dave, I know you are on a par with Stephen Hawking when it comes to IQ so I don't like to question you but doesn't the 'triple' in speed triple refer to the number of cylinders? If so then using one of the 3 cylinders from a 1050cc engine to make a single cylinder 350cc bike would be viable would it not?

A. Yes, it's called a Speed Triple because of the three cylinders.

B. Yes, using a single cylinder from those engines would create a 350cc engine much like Honda did with the CBR 250 (1/4 the cylinders of the CBR 1000).

The comments were directed at katebeachbum to point out that going with a shorter stroke would require a bit of a sacrifice.

[dave_boo]

How much would one be talking about if it was a 350? 200 000 THB?

a 350cc made in BOI zone would be 80% importduty to TH and ad excice tax

a 350 with shorter stroke as 249cc fits most Asian countries tax systems

so a 350 would in simple terms cost 2-3 times a 250cc

a 350cc BOI zone made would fit Japans 400cc tax limit, and same bike with shorter stroke as 249cc fits TH/ASEAN and some other markets. Makes sense to me. Wonder how much the 249 to 350cc long stroke kits would cost 55555

Speed Triple has a 79x71,4 cylinder. Using the same cylinder would necessitate a 50,79mm stroke. That would seem to indicate such an engine would need crazy revs to produce major power. The torque that Triumph is famous for would be out the window. As a point of reference the Ninja 250R has a 1,505:1 ratio, the CBR 250 has a 1,382:1 and the proposed 250 Triumph engine has a 1,555:1 ratio.

good point

but as reducing bore is more expensive, its still an option to reduce stroke to downsize to 249cc

I doubt it will be more expensive. Doesn't seem that Triumph uses modular cases and cranks so they would have to produce new ones for such a bike anyways instead of breaking down complete 1050 engines for their parts....

[katabeachbum]

I doubt it will be more expensive. Doesn't seem that Triumph uses modular cases and cranks so they would have to produce new ones for such a bike anyways instead of breaking down complete 1050 engines for their parts....

If same manufactoring price, I sure would go for a long stroker 249cc to stand out as a Triumph

[dave_boo]

I doubt it will be more expensive. Doesn't seem that Triumph uses modular cases and cranks so they would have to produce new ones for such a bike anyways instead of breaking down complete 1050 engines for their parts....

If same manufactoring price, I sure would go for a long stroker 249cc to stand out as a Triumph

There's only so far you can go with torque in such a small engine. Internal combustion engines are interesting designs in compromises. Shooting for the high revving rush leaves a weak bottom. Stump pulling low end usually equates to not that 'frisky' of an engine. One can attempt to approximate one type of engine with a different configuration, but it will never be the same. Even attempting to reach the same bore/stroke ratio won't cause a 250 engine to behave like the original engine. A 250cc engine with the same bore/stroke would be

70.5 x 63.8mm.

Attempting to make a single have the bottom end grunt of the triple, along with the top end sizzle will not happen. And even going the route of say the Yamaha XT 660 (nearly the same ratio) and keeping the same overlap, duration, etc you would only end up with something like 18 HP and 17 ft-lb of torque...that's of course assuming the numbers scale downwards linearly. Granted this isn't a fair comparison due to the SOHC of the 660, but it's something to think about.

[BigBikeBKK]

However if it is assembled in Brazil, then sent back to Thailand in one piece surely there'd be some lovely import tax thrown on top.

Where did you get that Brazil bit???

[gregchambers]

The savings from using common engine parts is probably trivial given the flexibility of modern factories. In the seventies Ducati made an interesting range of thumpers from 250-450cc, using a common bottom end. They were notable for economy (90-100mpg) and vibration. Euroland has a 33hp limit for learning so that would be one area Triumph would aim at. I think it was noted that Triumph have a Brazilian factory not that the bike would solely be assembled there. Makes sense to make it wherever they get the best deal on tax-free zones and exchange rates and design it in such a way that limits personal exports back to the UK/Euro where small machines are normally priced at exorbitant levels (compulsory rider insurance is one area that limits individual imports, trying to insure a CBR150 rather than CBR125 would cost a lot more, for instance). Given that most western countries are in decline and fun vehicles like motorcycles will be the first to be hit, a much more practical 250/350 thumper might well save Triumph from future fiscal disintegration a decade down the line.

[hehehoho]

However if it is assembled in Brazil, then sent back to Thailand in one piece surely there'd be some lovely import tax thrown on top.

Where did you get that Brazil bit???

http://www.triumphtorque.com/news/32/Triumph-building-a-new-300cc-naked-single.aspx

According to Motorcycle Sport & Leisure, on sale now, a new Triumph is being lined up as an affordable entry-level bike for developed markets (US/Europe) and as a prestige model in growing markets (Asia, Africa and South America). News of the bike first emerged last month in the Brazilian magazine Motociclismo, which reports that it will be assembled in Brazil from kits sent from Thailand to a new Triumph assembly plant in Manaus.

As we already know, Triumph wants to expand its line up to 23 models across 7 categories by the end of 2012 and are keen to tap in to the rapidly expanding Asia markets. Currently, Triumph has 21 models across 6 categories; so with this model rumoured to be formally announced in 2012 there is speculation that there will be 2 variants and a new category - could this be a new Triumph Cub?

The liquid cooled four-valve single cylinder engine is rumoured to measure between 267cc and 350cc depending on the country in which it will be sold. If correct, then this would position it against KTM's 200cc Duke for India, Brazil and other developing markets.

Triumph's 800 Thailand employees are under the direction of locally based British management and outweigh the 600 strong workforce at its Hinckley HQ. The Thai operation manufactures a significant proportion of both engine and chassis components for all current models. Triumph is rumoured to be building a volume production plant in Thailand to enable it be compete in the Asian export markets to other countries throughout the region.

Naturally, Triumph have not commented on any speculation regarding the development of any new models.

Posted: 05 May 2011

[gregchambers]

The bit about kits being assembled in Brazil does not preclude whole bikes being made in Thailand or even the UK, looks like Triumph are setting up yet another factory in Thailand. Seems to me to be the next step on from the way Honda have perfected the cheap manufacture of their step-thrus and strongly hints at Triumph's belief in the decline of bigger bike sales (why bother otherwise, much more difficult to produce small bikes very cheaply and make a profit starting from ground zero in that sector). It is typical of the way Triumph do things that they are not running to China to subcontract engine production, etc, having initially despaired of the quality of UK engineering and produced a huge amount of stuff themselves. The prices of small Japanese bikes in the UK/Euro a disgrace, let's hope Triumph can do better.

[hehehoho]

Triumph motorcycle production continues to reach new heights, with the company on-track to build 53,000 motorcycles this year in two British and three Thai factories. Much of this growth is the result of a headlong rush into new markets with bold products like the Tiger 800 adventure bike and Daytona 675 supersport. Triumph will continue to extend its range, which has grown from 13 models in 2007 to 20 models in 2011, with even more new models planned for the next two years. We’ve already spied the large-capacity Trophy tourer (Up To Speed, February), and it’s widely understood this motor will also power a new adventure-tourer to compete with BMW’s R1200GS. Now we’ve learned that Triumph is developing new product at the opposite end of the spectrum, in the form of a small-displacement, single-cylinder beginner’s bike.

News of this machine first broke in Brazilian magazine Motociclismo, which says the bike will be assembled at a new Triumph factory in Manaus, Brazil, from kits produced at one of Triumph’s Thai factories. The so-called Street Single will be presented in 2012 and will be powered by a liquid-cooled, four-valve, single-cylinder engine displacing 267 to 350cc, depending on where it’s sold. This will be a potent rival for the Indo-Austrian KTM 350 Duke in developing markets, and a distinctive and desirable alternative in America to the Kawasaki Ninja 250 and Honda CBR250R—the latter, by no coincidence, also made in Thailand.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/motorcycle_news/122_1108_triumph_street_single/index.html

[VocalNeal]

The so-called Street Single will be presented in 2012 and will be powered by a liquid-cooled, four-valve, single-cylinder engine displacing 267 to 350cc, depending on where it's sold.

2c?

If 350 is a requirement . Make the production version 24Xcc with a 350 kit available after market. It will probably end up 267 here. Like the KYMCO? scooter which is 250.7cc