Recent Visit By Roman Polanski

[mouse]

Go to this link in the Nation Newspaper to see about Roman Polanki's recent visit to the Kingdom.

And now I wish to say that I am thoroughly confused. On one hand Thailand's autorities deport foreigners that may have committed a non-violent crime such as having overstayed their visit to Thailand, but, when a sought after and confessed rapist of a little girl, such as Roman Polanski (see story at http://www.vachss.com/mission/roman_polanski.html) comes to visit the Kingdom he granted him the status of a superstar. Supposedly he is still being sought by American authorities after having been arrested, then having plead guilty to a lesser charge and then fleeing to avoid sentencing, for having forced a thirteen year old girl into numerous sexual and also indecent acts after plying her with liqueur and illegal drugs.

I have seen farang being denied visas due to sometimes inconsequential reasons, but, when a sexual predator comes to visit it does not seem to phase the authorities and no move is made to block such a visit or to arrest and deport such a person as is required under International law and treaties between the United States and the Kingdom of Thailand.

Remember what I have written, the next time you hold your little daughter in your arms. I hope for you and her sake, that nothing as horrible ever happens to her.

[OldAsiaHand]

Yes, the hero's welcome Polanski is getting here bothers me, too. Even in Paris, folks are a little shaky about him. I was having dinner there with a group of friends eight or ten years ago when Polanski joined out table with a (very, very young) friend. Three of my fellow diners got up and left without a word.

I suppose the point is that whatever passes for 'the authorities' here in Thailand must be completely overwhelmed by the presence of this icon of international film (who is, alas, the very definition of a has-been, which is one of two reasons he may be hanging around the Bangkok Film Festival). Thus, since he brings prestige to them by being here, they don't care if his love life involves goats dressed up like little girls.

Status in Thailand is everything. Substance in Thailand is nothing. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Boon Mee]

The very definition of Eurotrash...

[haha]

it has been my experience that many caucasian folks can't tell the correct ages of asians, and vice versa.

many times, I have had foreign friends make critical comments about couples where the guys are in their 50's, and their girlfriends/wives are in their 20's.

more often than not... asian girls in their 20's are mistaken by foreigners as being age 12 or 13.

on a few occasions, I took some of my "judgemental" friends to the chulalongkorn university to walk around. and they were surprised that the students they saw walking around there were actually college age.

on the reverse side, I have had asian friends look at some of my caucasian friends and comment on how "young" and handsome they looked even though I knew them to be over age 50.

when asked, they would reply that my friends age was around 30 to 35.

..even I have mistaken peoples ages. I was looking at this caucasian lady the other day whom I thought was age 40+ and was told that she was in fact in her 20's.

in no way am I trying to justify the actions of pedophiles with this reply. but I think people are too quick to make judgements without the facts, and this needs to be pointed out.

[Old Croc]

The last thread on the Polanski visit disappeared without trace after things got nasty. Any reason this one has started up and been allowed to continue?

[Judge]

I have often seen Western women pointing out "pedophiles" who were actually middle-aged expats walking down the street with their teenage daughters.

There are very few true pedophiles around and the ones that haven't ended up in jail can not operate freely in Thailand. People are on to their disgusting activities.

This hysteria surrounding this issue is starting to remind me of witch-burning in Salem.

[sriracha john]

I have often seen Western women pointing out "pedophiles" who were actually middle-aged expats walking down the street with their teenage daughters.

There are very few true pedophiles around and the ones that haven't ended up in jail can not operate freely in Thailand. People are on to their disgusting activities.

This hysteria surrounding this issue is starting to remind me of witch-burning in Salem. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently they are still quite a few out there if the numerous arrest reports are any indication, or perhaps there are just that many new ones gravitating to Thailand to replace the ones that have been locked up already.

[Pink Mist]

The last thread on the Polanski visit disappeared without trace after things got nasty. Any reason this one has started up and been allowed to continue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so far it's remained civilised

[qwertyuiop]

(who is, alas, the very definition of a has-been, which is one of two reasons he may be hanging around the Bangkok Film Festival). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I would not wish to argue about the rest of your post and certainly everyone is enttitled to an opinion I think that "has-been" might be a tad off the mark.

Certainly he rose to the heights quickly. his first film being reagrdsed by may as one of the best ever made. Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby feature on many such lists as well.

On "leaving" Hollywood his stock diid drop quite dramatically perhaps not all due to his filmwork.

However the fact that he won the Oscar for Best Director in 2003 in a country in which there is still an open warrant out for his arrest, would suggest that he is far from being the poster boy for "has-been" as suggested and that he still has something to offer the film world.

Hey but what do I know I haven't been to a movie in 5 years

[Thomas_Merton]

(who is, alas, the very definition of a has-been, which is one of two reasons he may be hanging around the Bangkok Film Festival). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I would not wish to argue about the rest of your post and certainly everyone is enttitled to an opinion I think that "has-been" might be a tad off the mark.

Certainly he rose to the heights quickly. his first film being reagrdsed by may as one of the best ever made. Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby feature on many such lists as well.

On "leaving" Hollywood his stock diid drop quite dramatically perhaps not all due to his filmwork.

However the fact that he won the Oscar for Best Director in 2003 in a country in which there is still an open warrant out for his arrest, would suggest that he is far from being the poster boy for "has-been" as suggested and that he still has something to offer the film world.

Hey but what do I know I haven't been to a movie in 5 years

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and yet you seem to know more than most of the posters in this thread.

Good posting.

[RDN]

The last thread on the Polanski visit disappeared without trace after things got nasty. Any reason this one has started up and been allowed to continue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so far it's remained civilised

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. So far, so good. Let's have more informed comment - like "qwertyuiop" - please.

From my point of view, I think it is amazing that he has been allowed in, especially considering the "special" relationship that is supposed to exist between Thailand and the US.

[marquess]

What Polanski did in the past was indeed detestable. However I think he should be cut some slack, if you had had your pregnant wife murdered in that brutal way. Who is to says what permanent effect it would have on an otherwise rational mind?

Edited October 16, 2005 by marquess

[GuestHouse]

There is a warrant for his arrest on a charge of statutory rape. He jumped bail to escape justice.

The man is many detestable things, including a coward.

[Johpa]

What Polanski did in the past was indeed detestable. However I think he should be cut some slack, if you had had your pregnant wife murdered in that brutal way. Who is to says what permanent effect it would have on an otherwise rational mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what about his partner in this crime, Mr. Nicholson, who has remained up on his pederastal all these years? We sure did cut him some slack. And ol' Woody "The Woody" Allen, sure did get some slack for thumping his step-daughter. And slack was sure given to Mr. Seinfeld and his Jr Hi darling. I want to move to Hollywoood and get some slack for myself too. But hey, wait a minute, I am not one of the rich and shameless so the only slack I could hope for would be from my cellmate Bubba in prison for such deeds as he dresses me up for his own private fantasy derived from the brutality of his backgound.

I hear the teahouses in Bangkok intend to hold honorary dinners for Mr. Polanski during his stay.

[Thomas_Merton]

I wonder if contributors to this thread would like to consider the following questions:

Does a man’s sexuality define his character? Or is it the opposite; his character defines his sexuality?

Or maybe his sexuality and his general character exist on two separate planes - independent of each other?

Perhaps we should also consider our own situation, when answering these questions.

[Queers for Fears]

What Polanski did in the past was indeed detestable. However I think he should be cut some slack, if you had had your pregnant wife murdered in that brutal way. Who is to says what permanent effect it would have on an otherwise rational mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what about his partner in this crime, Mr. Nicholson, who has remained up on his pederastal all these years? We sure did cut him some slack. And ol' Woody "The Woody" Allen, sure did get some slack for thumping his step-daughter. And slack was sure given to Mr. Seinfeld and his Jr Hi darling. I want to move to Hollywoood and get some slack for myself too. But hey, wait a minute, I am not one of the rich and shameless so the only slack I could hope for would be from my cellmate Bubba in prison for such deeds as he dresses me up for his own private fantasy derived from the brutality of his backgound.

I hear the teahouses in Bangkok intend to hold honorary dinners for Mr. Polanski during his stay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean when you talk about Nicholson but agreed that as far as Polanski, Seinfeld and Allen are concerned, it seems that a few chosen people are allowed to get away with engaging in illegal activities

[cdnvic]

Technicaly I think Allen got off the hook because he never legally adopted the girl, and although in their teens, both her, and Seinfeld's little missy were at or above age of consent in that state.

Legalities aside, it comes down to what society finds acceptable, and while Seinfeld may have raised alot of eyebrows, he was just being a dirty old man, whereas Allen was getting it on with his defacto step daughter which if not technicaly illegal, definitley should be. Where Seinfeld came off looking silly to most, I imagine to the same people Allen must have looked absolutely sickening.

In some juristictions age of consent is 14 or younger. I think this is too young. While I'd hate to see a 14yr old and a 15yr old get busted over a teenage fling, I don't think it should be ok for a 65yr old to be dating a junior highschool girl. It may technicaly be legal, yet I, and I imagine many others would find it unacceptable.

So can, or should we judge on legallity alone?

cv

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is a bit hard to judge it any other way I'd say

[jimbob]

What Polanski did in the past was indeed detestable. However I think he should be cut some slack, if you had had your pregnant wife murdered in that brutal way. Who is to says what permanent effect it would have on an otherwise rational mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charles Manson's gang actually cut her unborn baby out of her then wrote things on the wall in her blood. Really bad stuff.

I have been to his hideout ranch in the desert where they caught them, there was a very big bush of Jimson Weed there, all those psychodelics can really screw up the mind.

[Judge]

In some juristictions age of consent is 14 or younger. I think this is too young. While I'd hate to see a 14yr old and a 15yr old get busted over a teenage fling, I don't think it should be ok for a 65yr old to be dating a junior highschool girl. It may technicaly be legal, yet I, and I imagine many others would find it unacceptable.

How about 18 and a 65 year old man?

How about 20?

If you had a thirty-five year old daughter would it be "acceptable" for her to bonk an 85 year old man? The truth is that many people would be quite happy to make that illegal as well.

Also many religious people would like to ban sex without marriage, until, of course, they wanted to do it, in which case anything becomes acceptable.

The reason that prostitution is illegal in many places is because when the laws were first passed, the legislators knew that they would still be able to do as they wanted. They wouldn't have supported these laws if they knew that they couldn't keep on doing exactly as they pleased. Sex laws were only for the "common" man.

Legislating man's strongest natural instinct shouldn't be done by religious groups, feminists, puritans and hypocrites, but it very often is.

[girlx]

There are very few true pedophiles around and the ones that haven't ended up in jail can not operate freely in Thailand

do you have some proof of this? people wear very convincing masks. sounds like a pretty naive statement to me.

Legislating man's strongest natural instinct shouldn't be done by religious groups, feminists, puritans and hypocrites, but it very often is.

in general i agree with this, but when your sexuality affects someone's life so profoundly and negatively, you would need to be held accountable for it. this includes pedophilia. but since pedophilia is by definition sexual attraction to the pre-pubescent, then discussions about 18 year olds with 65 year olds is pretty irrelevant.

[Judge]

There are very few true pedophiles around and the ones that haven't ended up in jail can not operate freely in Thailand

do you have some proof of this? people wear very convincing masks. sounds like a pretty naive statement to me.

Legislating man's strongest natural instinct shouldn't be done by religious groups, feminists, puritans and hypocrites, but it very often is.

in general i agree with this, but when your sexuality affects someone's life so profoundly and negatively, you would need to be held accountable for it. this includes pedophilia. but since pedophilia is by definition sexual attraction to the pre-pubescent, then discussions about 18 year olds with 65 year olds is pretty irrelevant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been heavily involved in the sex scene with and for adults in Thailand and South East Asia for many, many years and have NEVER seen a pre-pubesant child being offered for sex ANYWHERE.

Also, I have never met someone who admitted being interested in one, even way back when, when one could get away with almost anything around here.

I'm not saying that there are no pedophiles around, or those catering to them, but they are both about as sparse as caviar in Rwanda.

Since you admit that a pedophile, "is by definition sexual attraction to the pre-pubescent", please examine this and other threads like it. People are talking about teenagers, age of consent laws and other immaterial matters, equating them to pedophilia, when they have little to do with each other.

By the way, you might try reading more carefully. I was responding to a post that implied that legal ages of consent should be raised because the author didn't think that they were acceptable to him.

My answer was totally relevant to his statement.

Edited October 17, 2005 by Judge

[SiamOne]

I wonder if contributors to this thread would like to consider the following questions:

Does a man’s sexuality define his character? Or is it the opposite; his character defines his sexuality?

Or maybe his sexuality and his general character exist on two separate planes - independent of each other?

Perhaps we should also consider our own situation, when answering these questions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends!! If a man has a strong character, then it defines his sexuality.

But if a man is obsessed with sex (as are paedophiles) then that will define him. He lives for it and it dominates his life

I would not consider Polanski a paedophile based on one relationship. If he likes young women, fine, many men do, but if he preys on young girls, that is a different thing.

Although convicted of statuary rape (ie sex with a girl under the age of consent), that offence does not make him a paedophile.

[p1p]

I have been heavily involved in the sex scene with and for adults in Thailand and South East Asia for many, many years and have NEVER seen a pre-pubesant child being offered for sex ANYWHERE.

Also, I have never met someone who admitted being interested in one, even way back when, when one could get away with almost anything around here.

I'm not saying that there are no pedophiles around, or those catering to them,  but they are both about as sparse as caviar in Rwanda.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The definition of a Paedophile is as follows: Pedophilia (American English) or pædophilia/paedophilia (British English), from the Greek παιδοφιλια (paidophilia) < παις (pais) "boy, child" and φιλια (philia) "friendship", (ICD-10 F65.4) is the condition of people (either adult or adolescent) whose primary sexual attraction is toward prepubescent children. Pedosexuality is used as a synonym. ...

The important factor to consider is that the attraction is for prepubescent children.

I fear that your "heavy involvement in the sex scene " has not been as heavy as you like to think. There are far more people engaged in paedophilia, suppliers and consumers, than you would believe. They do not hang out in areas, bars and brothels catering to the "adult sex scene" but are found underground, in shacks and private houses and are generally publicised only by word od mouth, the paedophile network if you will. They do not advertise themselves or their tastes for the very reason that they recognise that they form a generally unacceptable under-belly of society.

What would your reaction be of the guy on the barstool next to you asked where he could get a six year old, or offered you the use of one? They do not advertise themselves in this way.

[sriracha john]

I wonder if contributors to this thread would like to consider the following questions:

Does a man’s sexuality define his character? Or is it the opposite; his character defines his sexuality?

Or maybe his sexuality and his general character exist on two separate planes - independent of each other?

Perhaps we should also consider our own situation, when answering these questions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends!! If a man has a strong character, then it defines his sexuality.

But if a man is obsessed with sex (as are paedophiles) then that will define him. He lives for it and it dominates his life

I would not consider Polanski a paedophile based on one relationship. If he likes young women, fine, many men do, but if he preys on young girls, that is a different thing.

Although convicted of statuary rape (ie sex with a girl under the age of consent), that offence does not make him a paedophile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Utilizing the internationally-prepared and internationally-accepted DSM-IV criteria, he is, in fact, a pedophile:

A pedophile is a person, most frequently a man, who focuses his sexual fantasies and behavior toward children. People who enjoy child pornography are pedophiles. Some pedophiles are sexually attracted only toward children and are not at all attracted toward adults. Pedophilia is usually a chronic condition. Main characteristics are:

Repeatedly for at least 6 months, the patient has intense sexual desires, fantasies or behaviors concerning sexual activity with a sexually immature child (usually age 13 or under).

This causes clinically important distress or impairs work, social or personal functioning.

The pedophile is 16 or older and at least 5 years older than the child.

[GuestHouse]

If Polanski would be man enough to return to the jurisdiction of the court he might defend himself and employ a lawyer to assist him.

The defense he's receiving here is pretty dismal and once again reflects badly on the majority of TV Members.

[SiamOne]

If Polanski would be man enough to return to the jurisdiction of the court he might defend himself and employ a lawyer to assist him.

The defense he's receiving here is pretty dismal and once again reflects badly on the majority of TV Members.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not sure why you say that.

As to being man enough to return, why would he? he is guilty of statutary rape, by definition, so would go to jail for a long tiime

BUT he is not a paedophile, from the definitions given

Utilizing the internationally-prepared and internationally-accepted DSM-IV criteria, he is, in fact, a pedophile:

A pedophile is a person, most frequently a man, who focuses his sexual fantasies and behavior toward children. People who enjoy child pornography are pedophiles. Some pedophiles are sexually attracted only toward children and are not at all attracted toward adults. Pedophilia is usually a chronic condition. Main characteristics are:

Repeatedly for at least 6 months, the patient has intense sexual desires, fantasies or behaviors concerning sexual activity with a sexually immature child (usually age 13 or under).

This causes clinically important distress or impairs work, social or personal functioning.

The pedophile is 16 or older and at least 5 years older than the child.

He had sex with a girl who was past puberty. She was hardly a child, certainly not sexually immature. He was/is also attracted to adults, was not obsessed by sex and functioned normally etc etc

he broke the law, but is not a Paedophile

[chownah]

Having had sex with an underage person does mean that he has broken the law and he has admitted that.....it does not make him a pedophile.....and I don't think that any of us know enough about the man to know if he is a pedophile or not.

[sriracha john]

BUT he is not a paedophile, from the definitions given

Utilizing the internationally-prepared and internationally-accepted DSM-IV criteria, he is, in fact, a pedophile:

A pedophile is a person, most frequently a man, who focuses his sexual fantasies and behavior toward children. People who enjoy child pornography are pedophiles. Some pedophiles are sexually attracted only toward children and are not at all attracted toward adults. Pedophilia is usually a chronic condition. Main characteristics are:

Repeatedly for at least 6 months, the patient has intense sexual desires, fantasies or behaviors concerning sexual activity with a sexually immature child (usually age 13 or under).

This causes clinically important distress or impairs work, social or personal functioning.

The pedophile is 16 or older and at least 5 years older than the child.

He had sex with a girl who was past puberty. She was hardly a child, certainly not sexually immature. He was/is also attracted to adults, was not obsessed by sex and functioned normally etc etc

he broke the law, but is not a Paedophile

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She was 13 as per the diagnostic criteria, I don't see how you can he isn't a pedophile. He also meets ALL the other criteria as stated by the DSM-IV.

It also sounds from Old Asia Hand's Post, his behavior hasn't changed:

I was having dinner there with a group of friends eight or ten years ago when Polanski joined out table with a (very, very young) friend. Three of my fellow diners got up and left without a word.

Perhaps a review of the court documents regarding the ordeal are in order:

Two weeks after Polanski plied her with Champagne and a Quaalude, Samantha Gailey appeared before an L.A. grand jury and recalled Polanski's predatory behavior.

The girl's testimony of her abuse at Polanski's hands begins with her posing twice for topless photos that the director said were for French Vogue. The girl then told prosecutors how Polanski directed her to, "Take off your underwear" and enter the Jacuzzi, where he photographed her naked. Soon, the director, who was then 43, joined her in the hot tub. He also wasn't wearing any clothes and, according to Gailey's testimony, wrapped his hands around the child's waist.

The girl testified that she left the Jacuzzi and entered a bedroom in the home, where Polanski sat down beside her and kissed the teen, despite her demands that he "keep away." According to Gailey, Polanski then performed a sex act on her and later "started to have intercourse with me." At one point, according to Gailey's testimony, Polanski asked the 13-year-old if she was "on the pill," and "When did you last have your period?" Polanski then asked her, Gailey recalled, "Would you want me to go in through your back?" before he "put his penis in my butt." Asked why she did not more forcefully resist Polanski, the teenager told Deputy D.A. Roger Gunson, "Because I was afraid of him."

Following his indictment on various sex charges, Polanski agreed to a plea deal that spared him prison time (he had spent about 45 days in jail during a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation). But when it seemed that a Superior Court judge might not honor the deal--and sentence Polanski to prison--the director fled the country.

A logical person might deduce that the psychiatric evaluation was highly unfavorable and classified him as a pedophile, hence the judge deciding on prison time for him.

Btw, from the court documents, it sounds like he's a really great guy though, doesn't it?

[girlx]

I have been heavily involved in the sex scene with and for adults in Thailand and South East Asia for many, many years and have NEVER seen a pre-pubesant child being offered for sex ANYWHERE.

Also, I have never met someone who admitted being interested in one, even way back when, when one could get away with almost anything around here.

I'm not saying that there are no pedophiles around, or those catering to them, but they are both about as sparse as caviar in Rwanda.

i have not been heavily involved in the sex scene in thailand, yet i know personally of one self-admitted pedophile who comes here quite often, and absolutely no one who knew him would guess he was a pedophile. i also have personal knowledge of another pedophile who was later convicted of a different charge and is now behind bars for life. he was a mormon missionary. my comment about your post being naive was because people are not always what they seem, and pedophiles don't wear labels on their foreheads or go around openly spouting the fact that they are pedophiles. it is much much more common than you seem to think, and once a pedophile, always a pedophile, so they need to be locked up for life. you don't know as much about people as you think- serial killer ed gein's wife slept next to him every night for many years without the knowledge that he would sneak out to kill and eat his male victims.

roman polanski may or not be a pedophile. his victim was 13. however, the nature of him crime makes him a definite predator, and most predators never rehabilitate. i find it repulsive that bangkok newspapers had him splashed across their pages like he was some sort of hero. they even had him pictured with kids from the local orphanage! the height of stupidity in my opinion.