Thaksin Could Accept Brief Imprisonment In His Reconciliation Plan

[ratcatcher]

In any fair or equitable arrangement he would have no chance of being given bail if he returned. As he has already made a mockery of that trust when he defaulted on his bail and fled the country. Immediate incarceration would have to be the only option upon his return.

However, as has been pointed out, incarceration for the mega rich is a very different kettle of fish sauce in comparison to prison for the average Thai or farang. His time spent inside would be in a luxurious, probably purpose built facility, with no restrictions on home comforts, visitors, consumables or access to all forms of contact with the outside world, (Though it would be politic to avoid issuing press releases or speaking to political rallies via webcam). Time off for good behaviour could shorten his sentence considerably, and a further part of that sentence could be commuted to home curfew. Then there's always the possibility of a Royal Pardon.

However, to appease those in Thai society who would insist that he was seen to "Serve his time" he would have to show remorse for his crimes. That would be essential before a pardon could be granted, and would be the only way of paving the path towards any form of genuine reconciliation.

As to his further involvement in politics, I would imagine that a short ban would be arranged, again to show that he was fully prepared to demonstrate his desire for full reconciliation.

Yes, it may not be fair by the standards of some countries, but I think it's the best anyone could realistically hope for in Thailand with his daughter as PM.

You make some very good points, however:

1. Mr Thaksin denies any wrongdoing therefore why should he go to jail.

2. Mr Thaksin says all allegations against him are politically motivated.

3. IF...he was to return and not go to prison, there would be a huge outcry by his foes.

4. IF...he was to return and be sent to prison,regardless of the conditions in said prison, there would be a huge outcry by his devoted followers.

5. IF...he does serve any time in prison following conviction of a crime, surely his status as a convict should make him ineligible to be a government minister?

It is a no-win situation and Ms Yingluck, although his loving sister, would be wise to keep him away as long as possible until her government becomes established. They are already walking through a political minefield of broken promises, so bringing Mr Thaksin aka Dear Leader back early would add to the problems.

[siampolee]

What ever happened to the search to find out where the money for the red shirt uprising came from

.

Might well be an interesting fact to see who the money went to in total and how much was actually paid out to the , ''little people".

[softgeorge]

How about he does his full stint in prison like everyone else 'convicted' of a crime! How about being banned from politics forever no ifs or buts. This would set an example to the rich that they can't do what they please. Rich or poor - you are the same and will be treated the same.

Has he actually been sentenced yet? How long did he actually get or did he skip before sentencing was passed? If he hasn't actually been sentenced then he could possibably just get the 15 days home detention. I'm asking because I have no idea if he has been sentenced so please don't attack me. It's a fair and reasonable question.

Sentenced 2 years. Bail was granted and he skipped. Many other cases, most far more serious, pending

Thanks for that.... well if already sentenced then he skipped he should do this time and more for skipping.

[eezergood]

How about he does his full stint in prison like everyone else 'convicted' of a crime! How about being banned from politics forever no ifs or buts. This would set an example to the rich that they can't do what they please. Rich or poor - you are the same and will be treated the same.

Has he actually been sentenced yet? How long did he actually get or did he skip before sentencing was passed? If he hasn't actually been sentenced then he could possibably just get the 15 days home detention. I'm asking because I have no idea if he has been sentenced so please don't attack me. It's a fair and reasonable question.

Sentenced 2 years. Bail was granted and he skipped. Many other cases, most far more serious, pending

Thanks for that.... well if already sentenced then he skipped he should do this time and more for skipping.

You would hope/think so but TIT

[SteeleJoe]

"The Elite" don't go to jail. Only the poor and poorly connected.

The very uppermost tiers? No, of course not. But occasionally some rich and well-connected -- certainly better connected than most people -- have "gone to jail" (in a manner of speaking). Definitely not only the poor.

And as I said earlier, their time isn't likely to be like that of the other prisoners.

[softgeorge]

"The Elite" don't go to jail. Only the poor and poorly connected.

The very uppermost tiers? No, of course not. But occasionally some rich and well-connected -- certainly better connected than most people -- have "gone to jail" (in a manner of speaking). Definitely not only the poor.

And as I said earlier, their time isn't likely to be like that of the other prisoners.

And it definately would not be a rat infested 6X6 mt cell with one toilet and occupied by 30 other desease ridden criminals. Maybe more likely the presidetial suit leased at the Hilton complete with made and personal chef.

[BrianCR]

How about he does his full stint in prison like everyone else 'convicted' of a crime! How about being banned from politics forever no ifs or buts. This would set an example to the rich that they can't do what they please. Rich or poor - you are the same and will be treated the same.

Agree totally. The man is a convicted criminal, and very likely would have been found guilty of numerous other serious crimes if the judicial processes had continued. But any discussion / action today should / must be based on the current conviction.

He must be treated like any other convicted criminal. Special consideration for this man is totally wrong and totally unacceptable.

Anything else makes a mockery of the intent and the process of the law and creates highly undesireable precedents.

Scorecard, if you are right does that mean that the likes of Nelson Mandela - The Birmingham Six - The Cardiff Three and many others - 'all convicted' and found guilty of offenses, should have remained where they were imprisoned? Or perhaps the right of appeal should apply? So, if you agree with that, do you think that Nelson Mandela would have had an appeal upheld? Politically accused people do not have much reason to appeal when courts are controlled by those political persons who, for their own interests, have accused you of wrong-doing. Or, let me get this straight, TS is the only Prime Minister or Member of Thai Government to ever face charges so the rest are innocent right? Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal? Thailand better start building a lot more prisons then!!

[Crushdepth]

Has he actually been sentenced yet?

Hell yes.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Crushdepth

[SteeleJoe]

Scorecard, if you are right does that mean that the likes of Nelson Mandela - The Birmingham Six - The Cardiff Three and many others - 'all convicted' and found guilty of offenses, should have remained where they were imprisoned? Or perhaps the right of appeal should apply? So, if you agree with that, do you think that Nelson Mandela would have had an appeal upheld? Politically accused people do not have much reason to appeal when courts are controlled by those political persons who, for their own interests, have accused you of wrong-doing. Or, let me get this straight, TS is the only Prime Minister or Member of Thai Government to ever face charges so the rest are innocent right? Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal? Thailand better start building a lot more prisons then!!

Can't believe I'm even going to entertain the notion of comparing Thaksin to Mandela but...

Mandela served 27 years of his sentence! And in doing so, and not fleeing the country, he became a more powerful force for change than ever.

If Thaksin did something similar, then more power to him.

Mandela was eventually acknowledged as being a political prisoner even by the head of state of his country (and a member of the very same regime that imprisoned him) when he was released along with other political prisoners. (Moreover Mandela was released because the turning of the tide was inevitable and the ruling elite were hoping to get out with their heads still attached and knew his release (among other things) was the only way they could.)

If Thaksin is imprisoned and then proven to be indisputably a political prisoner, then he should be released.

The Birmingham Six won a successful appeal due to suppression of evidence and police fabricating evidence.

If such an appeal is successful while Thaksin is in prison, he should be released.

The Cardiff Three won a successful appeal due to the fact that police "molded, manipulated and fabricated" evidence to secure their convictions.

If such an appeal is successful while Thaksin is in prison, he should be released.

Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal?

No, not one suspected of a crime. Only those convicted. Like Thaksin.

(And anyone who thinks that because others guilty of crimes haven't been punished then no one should be is clearly not thinking very sensibly; so the reference to other equally dirty -- but arguably far less dangerous -- politicians is irrelevant. Make a case for apprehending and punishing them, by all means. But that has nothing to do with defending Thaksin.)

EDIT to add a major (though seemingly obvious) point I wanted to make regarding Mandela vs. Thaksin that I just now see I forgot:

Mandela was imprisoned for fighting to overthrow a government that most of the world saw as terribly unjust and one which eventually even implicitly conceded that itself.

Thaksin -- if he went to prison -- would be imprisoned for corruption.

Fighting a brutal oppressive racist regime as a member of an oppressed racial minority.

Abusing your massive and virtually unchecked power as head of state to enrich yourself to the detriment of your country.

See any difference?

Edited July 17, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[IAMSOBAD]

I have a great idea for the Shinawatra family.

Yingluck make your older brother in charge of Anti-Corruption in all of Thailand.

His job...Remove ALL tuk-tuk, taxi, jetski, Nigerian, Russian,BIB, Drug etc. Mafias!

It could make honest Thais happy and show farang you are reformed. Your sister will look good and we all will benefit in the removal of scams and scum.

Remember Thaksin you started out as a cop ...now clean up the sleaze you let get rich being con artists.

To me that is a win win!

[softgeorge]

Scorecard, if you are right does that mean that the likes of Nelson Mandela - The Birmingham Six - The Cardiff Three and many others - 'all convicted' and found guilty of offenses, should have remained where they were imprisoned? Or perhaps the right of appeal should apply? So, if you agree with that, do you think that Nelson Mandela would have had an appeal upheld? Politically accused people do not have much reason to appeal when courts are controlled by those political persons who, for their own interests, have accused you of wrong-doing. Or, let me get this straight, TS is the only Prime Minister or Member of Thai Government to ever face charges so the rest are innocent right? Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal? Thailand better start building a lot more prisons then!!

Can't believe I'm even going to entertain the notion of comparing Thaksin to Mandela but...

Mandela served 27 years of his sentence! And in doing so, and not fleeing the country, he became a more powerful force for change than ever.

If Thaksin did something similar, then more power to him.

Mandela was eventually acknowledged as being a political prisoner even by the head of state of his country (and a member of the very same regime that imprisoned him) when he was released along with other political prisoners. (Moreover Mandela was released because the turning of the tide was inevitable and the ruling elite were hoping to get out with their heads still attached and knew his release (among other things) was the only way they could.)

If Thaksin is imprisoned and then proven to be indisputably a political prisoner, then he should be released.

The Birmingham Six won a successful appeal due to suppression of evidence and police fabricating evidence.

If such an appeal is successful while Thaksin is in prison, he should be released.

The Cardiff Three won a successful appeal due to the fact that police "molded, manipulated and fabricated" evidence to secure their convictions.

If such an appeal is successful while Thaksin is in prison, he should be released.

Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal?

No, not one suspected of a crime. Only those convicted. Like Thaksin.

(And anyone who thinks that because others guilty of crimes haven't been punished then no one should be is clearly not thinking very sensibly; so the reference to other equally dirty -- but arguably far less dangerous -- politicians is irrelevant. Make a case for apprehending and punishing them, by all means. But that has nothing to do with defending Thaksin.)

EDIT to add a major (though seemingly obvious) point I wanted to make regarding Mandela vs. Thaksin that I just now see I forgot:

Mandela was imprisoned for fighting to overthrow a government that most of the world saw as terribly unjust and one which eventually even implicitly conceded that itself.

Thaksin -- if he went to prison -- would be imprisoned for corruption.

Fighting a brutal oppressive racist regime as a member of an oppressed racial minority.

Abusing your massive and virtually unchecked power as head of state to enrich yourself to the detriment of your country.

See any difference?

I'm with you

[scorecard]

How about he does his full stint in prison like everyone else 'convicted' of a crime! How about being banned from politics forever no ifs or buts. This would set an example to the rich that they can't do what they please. Rich or poor - you are the same and will be treated the same.

Agree totally. The man is a convicted criminal, and very likely would have been found guilty of numerous other serious crimes if the judicial processes had continued. But any discussion / action today should / must be based on the current conviction.

He must be treated like any other convicted criminal. Special consideration for this man is totally wrong and totally unacceptable.

Anything else makes a mockery of the intent and the process of the law and creates highly undesireable precedents.

Scorecard, if you are right does that mean that the likes of Nelson Mandela - The Birmingham Six - The Cardiff Three and many others - 'all convicted' and found guilty of offenses, should have remained where they were imprisoned? Or perhaps the right of appeal should apply? So, if you agree with that, do you think that Nelson Mandela would have had an appeal upheld? Politically accused people do not have much reason to appeal when courts are controlled by those political persons who, for their own interests, have accused you of wrong-doing. Or, let me get this straight, TS is the only Prime Minister or Member of Thai Government to ever face charges so the rest are innocent right? Do you think that other politicians, suspected of a crime, should be treated like any other criminal? Thailand better start building a lot more prisons then!!

Thaksin has been convicted of a crime - abuse of power. The sale of this specific piece of land required (by law / regulation) that it be approved by the head of government, the pm, and the law says specifically that the pm cannot sign such documents involving transactions with members of his own family.

It's an appropriare law / regulation, the exact same laws (same intent) exist and are taken seriously in many many countries across the world.

It's a clear case based on specific law and the evidence is clear that he broke the law. His conviction is based on law and evidence. Let's not also forget the PM of any country is expected to be the moral compass, and in the situation thaksin was in, he should have said 'honey, sorry whilst I'm the pm we just can't do this'. And was it the only piece of land available for purchase in Bkk? NO.

Thaksin had, by law, the right to appeal. He didn't, he fled.

Nelson Mandela was jailed on fuzzy politically motivated charges, totally wrong and unfair imprisonment, a whole different scenario to thaksin.

There is an old saying 'the law is an ass' - where laws are unfair the population should fight such laws.

Why would anybody fight thakins conviction. He broke a specific law, there is clear documentary evidence. A law which should exist to prevent abuse of power.

And please don't say this law was started by the military dictators who conducted the coup. The law thaksin broke has been part of Thai law for decades.

Attempts to compare Nelson Mandela with thaksin have no common basis whatever, like trying to compare a chicken with a rotten apple - there are no common factors on which to base any real comparison.

To be honest, I find such attempts to be strongly disrespectfull to Nelson Mandela.

Edited July 17, 2011 by scorecard

[a99az]

How about he does his full stint in prison like everyone else 'convicted' of a crime! How about being banned from politics forever no ifs or buts. This would set an example to the rich that they can't do what they please. Rich or poor - you are the same and will be treated the same.

Whats the point of being filthy rich, if you have to do time?

[Phuket Stan]

Do many of u remember when the actual auction of the land took place ??....The first time they auctioned it there were several willing buyers who were prepared to pay much more for the land than Thakins's wife was willing to pay....the auction was called off and all the other buyers were heavied not to contest the new auction that was called...when the 2nd auction took place there was only 2 other buyers present...Thaksin's stooges....Correct me if I am wrong

[geriatrickid]

It is quite conceivable that Mr. Thaksin could undergo a symbolic detention. It might be house arrest or it might be at a facility suitable to a non violent offender. Whatever, the views are on Mr. Thaksin are, his charges relate to economic crime allegations. There was no violence involved. It is not unusual for non violent offenders in Thailand to receive alternatives to detention. House arrest is one such alternative.Keep in mind some of the characteristics of Thailand's approach to detention;

1. Convicted inmates are classified into 6 classes, which are Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Bad and Very Bad. Each class is entitled to different privileges. For example, inmates in the Good class or above are considered for granting parole. I would expect that Mr. Thaksin would be classified as "excellent".

2. There is an option for the use of good time allowance . Inmates in Good Class and above who demonstrate their good conduct may have remission of sentencing.

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

However, the most likely scenario is a Pardon . As commonly defined, pardon shall refer to the reduction or termination of a sentence, with or without conditions. A pardon allows for the early release of detainees or erasure of the criminal records. The common feature for this kind of early measure is that the highest authority approves the pardon. There are 2 types of pardons in Thailand;

i) An individual pardon is granted in view of the correction or rehabilitation of each offender and,

ii) A collective pardon is available contingent upon special events.

I would not be surprised to see a collective pardon issued in December. The collective pardon would most likely include additional political figures, some of which were involved in the illegal military coup. Thailand has some interesting ways to maintain the peace. It might puzzle some westerners, but it works. The Thais have an uncanny ability to walk on eggshells without breaking them. It is a skill heavy footed foreigners could learn from..

[nurofiend]

I have a great idea for the Shinawatra family.

Yingluck make your older brother in charge of Anti-Corruption in all of Thailand.

His job...Remove ALL tuk-tuk, taxi, jetski, Nigerian, Russian,BIB, Drug etc. Mafias!

It could make honest Thais happy and show farang you are reformed. Your sister will look good and we all will benefit in the removal of scams and scum.

Remember Thaksin you started out as a cop ...now clean up the sleaze you let get rich being con artists.

To me that is a win win!

careful what you wish for, you just might get another 'license to kill on sight' war on drugs policy

[lannarebirth]

It is quite conceivable that Mr. Thaksin could undergo a symbolic detention. It might be house arrest or it might be at a facility suitable to a non violent offender. Whatever, the views are on Mr. Thaksin are, his charges relate to economic crime allegations. There was no violence involved. It is not unusual for non violent offenders in Thailand to receive alternatives to detention. House arrest is one such alternative.Keep in mind some of the characteristics of Thailand's approach to detention;

1. Convicted inmates are classified into 6 classes, which are Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Bad and Very Bad. Each class is entitled to different privileges. For example, inmates in the Good class or above are considered for granting parole. I would expect that Mr. Thaksin would be classified as "excellent".

2. There is an option for the use of good time allowance . Inmates in Good Class and above who demonstrate their good conduct may have remission of sentencing.

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

However, the most likely scenario is a Pardon . As commonly defined, pardon shall refer to the reduction or termination of a sentence, with or without conditions. A pardon allows for the early release of detainees or erasure of the criminal records. The common feature for this kind of early measure is that the highest authority approves the pardon. There are 2 types of pardons in Thailand;

i) An individual pardon is granted in view of the correction or rehabilitation of each offender and,

ii) A collective pardon is available contingent upon special events.

I would not be surprised to see a collective pardon issued in December. The collective pardon would most likely include additional political figures, some of which were involved in the illegal military coup. Thailand has some interesting ways to maintain the peace. It might puzzle some westerners, but it works. The Thais have an uncanny ability to walk on eggshells without breaking them. It is a skill heavy footed foreigners could learn from..

Did you lift that post off some notthenation.com article? if not you make yourself a laughing-stock

[janverbeem]

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

Hey that would fit Thaksin very well,though not sure if acting as a Prime Minister qualify's as public work outside prisons.

[Phuket Stan]

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

Hey that would fit Thaksin very well,though not sure if acting as a Prime Minister qualify's as public work outside prisons.

They usually have to get down and dirty in the sewers....cant see Thaksin doing that....he would be afraid someone might slam the cover down hard

[lannarebirth]

Do many of u remember when the actual auction of the land took place ??....The first time they auctioned it there were several willing buyers who were prepared to pay much more for the land than Thakins's wife was willing to pay....the auction was called off and all the other buyers were heavied not to contest the new auction that was called...when the 2nd auction took place there was only 2 other buyers present...Thaksin's stooges....Correct me if I am wrong

Noppadol said four bidders competed in the auction for the 33 rai land plot near the Thailand Cultural Centre on Ratchadaphisek Road in December 2003, which Pojaman won.

Nobody competed in the first auction in July of the same year as the appraisal price was too high. Pojaman proposed the highest price at Bt772 million, higher than the second high bidder for Bt20 million when the appraisal price by the Department of Lands was at Bt695 million.

Moreover, the other bidders were big companies listed on the Stock Market including Land and Houses Public Co Ltd, Noble Development Public Co Ltd and Asian Property Development Public Co Ltd. There was definitely no conspiracy by such companies, he said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/03/politics/politics_30017935.php

[lannarebirth]

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

Hey that would fit Thaksin very well,though not sure if acting as a Prime Minister qualify's as public work outside prisons.

They usually have to get down and dirty in the sewers....cant see Thaksin doing that....he would be afraid someone might slam the cover down hard

Well, at least this would see him back to be sentenced and charged on the remainder of the charges amd ongoing cases awaiting him.

[surangw]

slowly sliding him back into power so no one notices until its too late

[nurofiend]

slowly sliding him back into power so no one notices until its too late

i think most people at the moment are aware of this possibility to be fair

[Jingthing]

slowly sliding him back into power so no one notices until its too late

i think most people at the moment are aware of this possibility to be fair

I have been calling this, greasing the hole, but that's just me.

[geriatrickid]

Did you lift that post off some notthenation.com article? if not you make yourself a laughing-stock

Is that the best that you can write? The classification of prisoners is accurate and my statement in regard to parole and alternative sentencing reflects the reality in Thailand.

The prisons are over crowded and Thailand makes an effort not to incarcerate non violent offenders.

Perhaps you disagree on the possibility of parole. Time will tell.

Last week someone decided to descend into childish name calling when I wrote that various presumed opponents of Mr. Thaksin had either met with him or sent emissaries. Yesterday, the Nation reported " Rumours have it that, since the 2006 military take-over that he was a part of, Anupong has somehow fostered secret ties with the politician he had overthrown". He's not the first to be surrounded by such "rumours". In Thailand, foreigners always seem surprised by events that they think are unexpected. Mr. Thaksin will most likely be pardoned and the most appropriate time for a pardon will be in December as Thaialnd celebrates. It is common practice to allow pardons on certain special occassions. Look at your calender and the date whould be obvious. It is impossible at this time to offer an individual pardon, but if given to a group, then it would be more acceptable.

[EnhancePlus]

Give him the comfy chair and the pointed pillows. CONFESS, CONFESS!!!

[SteeleJoe]

In Thailand, foreigners always seem surprised by events that they think are unexpected.

How very odd! They are surprised by things that they think unexpected?! Normally people ate only surprised at the expected stuff, right?

(BTW your implied superiority to most foreigners or those you speak of is noted and humbly acknowledged).

[otissp]

In many countries, man exploits man. In Thailand, it's the other way around.

[Crushdepth]

3. Inmates whose remaining sentence is less than 2 years are allowed to engage in public work outside prisons. The number of working days are recorded as remission days.

In respect to points 2 & 3, I don't think it would be unusual to see an interesting use of the procedure in this case.

Hey that would fit Thaksin very well,though not sure if acting as a Prime Minister qualify's as public work outside prisons.

They usually have to get down and dirty in the sewers....cant see Thaksin doing that....he would be afraid someone might slam the cover down hard

One advantage of forcing Mr T to serve his sentence - if he feels the prisons are inhumane, he might decide to improve them when he gets out.

[Colin Yai]

Possibally something like 15 days home detention or an electronic tag so he does not go further than say 500 kms from his home.

Yeah I'm all in favour of an electronic tag ,about 10,000 volts should be ideal.