enough with the bickering, I think your point has been proved more than adequately Harcourt.

enough with the bickering, I think your point has been proved more than adequately Harcourt.

For a minute I thought I heard the crack of thunder outside. But no, methinks I heard the crack of a whip.

enough with the bickering, I think your point has been proved more than adequately Harcourt.

Indeed. It would be nice, and a refreshing change, if people would be gracious enough to concede something when a point has been adequately made.

Funny thread this... I've posted twice that it was a so-called Christian... and you people are still arguing who posted what first without even referring to that.

Maybe to get this thread back on to a sensible track.... what do you do about people like this? The guy seems to have been a loner; he didn't belong to any group, as far as we know, but nobody suspected he would do anything like this. There might be somebody capable of terrible acts like these living just along the road from you..... and YOU"D NEVER KNOW!

Posts referencing the Islamic connection and who did or did not make it have been removed. Please stay on the topic.

This person is purported to be a conservative Christian, among other things, and I am quite sure the majority of the people killed were Christian.

[snip] . . . There might be somebody capable of terrible acts like these living just along the road from you..... and YOU'D NEVER KNOW!

Rather than promote fear of imagined potential danger and allude to our inability as individuals to protect ourselves from harm I would instill within people the knowledge of safety and personal power. To anyone who would argue that individual safety and personal power do not exist I would quote from Richard Bach, "Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

Have people in general been so consummately convinced that the condition of their lives is nothing more than as leaves blowing in a merciless, uncaring, and purposeless wind? Have people been so absolutely indoctrinated to the poor beliefs which abound abundantly, beliefs which have been taught, mind you, to all of us since birth, which serve only to rob us of our self-determination and ability to produce for ourselves a life of abundance in all things which are beneficial to not only ourselves but to all other life? Has our birthright to create in life anything we wish been so obscured and obfuscated by destitute and infertile beliefs which teach only misery, fear, and hatred that we no longer even believe that we have a birthright? Has the concept of the miracle of life been replaced with the idea of the horror of life? What of love? Or is love a fallacious feeling, illusory in that it has no power to create and is merely a fraudulent concept we create in our minds to give us comfort in an otherwise despicable and hostile environment?

It is my sincere hope that others will eventually awaken from the illusion of a life of powerlessness. For myself, I will humbly and graciously decline to accept the offering of fear for I know where it leads. :jap:

Have people in general been so consummately convinced that the condition of their lives is nothing more than as leaves blowing in a merciless, uncaring, and purposeless wind?

Sadly yes.......With a few well placed words such as TERROR & TERRORISM folks are easily subdued & gladly hand over their freedoms

Followed up with the Patriot Act <sic> people are quickly becoming numb to free thinking.

Many have chosen to be herded instead.

PS: nice to see you Tip....Always enjoy your posts

Thank you, Tippaporn, for a good post. I agree with much of what you say, but I think it's good for us occasionally to stop and think about things like this and why they happen. It is not so much a feeling of helplessness as a need for preparedness. I take that in a Christian sense; non-Christians have to find some other way to prepare.

One of many articles in today's Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658664/Hunt-for-Britons-linked-to-Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html

From this it appears that he is looking back to a 'Golden Age' of Europe, where we were mostly united against the threat of Islam overcoming the civilisation of the West. I am not talking about Suleiman, who was ruling Byzantium at the same time as Henry VIII was ruling Britain and claiming sovreignty over France(rightfully), but probably the time later when Jan Sobieski of Poland and the Serbs saved Europe at the Battle of Vienna against the Tartar hordes.

Rather than promote fear of imagined potential danger and allude to our inability as individuals to protect ourselves from harm I would instill within people the knowledge of safety and personal power.

Regrettably the media choose to promote such fears as it is easy reporting and boosts both sales and the subservience to big business / political dogma (of any current major party).

People as a mass watch the TV most evenings and from my area have very little of any thought-provoking content to watch. It is all mindless, cheaply-produced drivel from one or two global networks. The same applies to the daily newspapers and the majority of weekly magazines. And that is as far as 99% of the population wish to read. Then at the coffee-break / lunch-time break they can gather and all 'discuss' the news of the day, happily agreeing with each other and feeling content that there is a commonality of opinion. (Never mind that this commonality is that written by a hack-journalist doing as instructed by Rebbeka Brookes) - hey! a hack caught hacking!! - Comfort is what the majority seek, in this case comfort is mis-placed.

Our politicians now are not the men of the world that we used to have. From school debating societies, through the Oxford Union or similar and then working for the appropriate political party, these people have no experience of going out and earning a living at turning a lathe, welding a pipeline, being a counter-clerk at a bank or supermarket. All they know is politics and how to manipulate the electorate.

And we all tolerate this. We do not ourselves stand up on street corners (unless we are BNP or EDL members) because we have no political structure behind us. So we tick the blue or red box at elections and think this is democracy. It is not - it is the domination of the many by a few, who are either in government or in opposition for the whole of their lives, not giving a dam_n about the man in the street, because they have their fall-back directorships, consultancies, think-tanks, elevation to the Lords, even when they are out of Parliament itself.

A self-perpetuating bunch of cronies, with fat pensions ahead, whatever they do, or do not do.

I like your ideas, Tipp, but how can we put them into practice?

Adding to the last:

The school curricula are laid down by these same self-serving politicians, so who is to instil into our children the ideas you promote? The parents are to go up against the school national curriculum? What then will the children believe, not just in social justice and culture, but in subjects such as history (one of the main foundations of our social culture), then trending to geography, physics, maths and so on.

(Sorry, I was ever the dunce at languages).

Our politicians now are not the men of the world that we used to have.

I think they are very much the same. Communication has evolved tremndously since the old days. Just go back 50 years, does anyone really think that JFK's affair with Marilyn Monroe would stay secret today? What we knew of politicians is only what they wanted us to know so it is no wonder they were such great, worldy, educated people. Today they can't get away with it as easily. Obama did to the point of getting elected, but he won't have that luxury next year.

Koheesti - from your keyboard to God's myopic screen !!

I think they are very much the same. Communication has evolved tremndously since the old days. Just go back 50 years, does anyone really think that JFK's affair with Marilyn Monroe would stay secret today? What we knew of politicians is only what they wanted us to know so it is no wonder they were such great, worldy, educated people. Today they can't get away with it as easily. Obama did to the point of getting elected, but he won't have that luxury next year.

Actually the whole Marilyn Monroe deal was quite well known back then although talked about in hushed voices.

I would say the biggest difference between now & then is not only communication because of course that helps.

But more importantly blind faith has left the building & I don't think it is coming back anytime soon.

So officials are now questioned on every facet. Nothing is taboo

That is not to say hope is not still visited each time a new candidate promises hope & change.

Hopes in promises being kept is all the people have. Sadly they have never been fulfilled in my lifetime by any politician.

The Oslo bomber apparently had been planning his dastardly deeds for 10 years!

This was not an impulsive act. It was coldly planned for a long time.

I don't know what to say.....The mass murder was an atrocity....but for it to be so coldly calculated leaves me despairing for Man.

It's almost as bad as so many generals throughout history (and present) that coldly plan invasions.

This person is purported to be a conservative Christian, among other things, and I am quite sure the majority of the people killed were Christian.

Unlike Islamic fanatics, this nut's religion isn't at the center of what he wanted. According to his nutjob/rant video on YouTube, his main enemy in his mind is Multicultural Marxism. One of his slides of his video shows a Marxist Hunter hunting permit issued by the Knights Templar in England. So it makes perfect sense (in a sick way) that he attacked a camp full of future leaders for the political party that's is the biggest promoter of Multiculturalism in Norway. No doubt the Labor Party's future best and brightest were attending the camp. In his sick mind he probably felt he was attacking sort of a Hitler Youth camp.

On his video/slide show he writes things like "Onward Christian Soldiers" and calls his group "Knights Templar Europe" and that "they" are against all "Hate Ideologies" (Multiculturalism/Islamism/Nazism) and against all "Genocidal Ideologies" (Islam, Marxism, Nazism and Pre-Enlightenment Chrisiandom) [10:55 mark of the video]. But the Knights Templar were pre-Enlightenment themselves, weren't they? Well, no use trying to make too much sense from a psycho.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8657669/Norway-shootings-Anders-Behring-Breiviks-YouTube-video-posted-hours-before-killings.html