A1 English Testing

[VisasPlus]

I am very confused about the BULATS tests taken in Thailand, both before and after the new list of approved test providers came into effect on the 18th July 2011. The UKBA advice was that tests taken with providers on the old list were okay to be submitted up until 17th July. After that only tests certificates from providers on the new list would be accepted. As far as I can work out, we have posts from two separate OPs - CHRONOS and PHOMCHOB - on the go at the moment. PHOMCHOB has posted a refusal notice showing that his wife was refused a visa because the tester ( Vantage-Siam ) was not on the approved list of testers prior to 17th July. On the other hand, CHRONOS has posted that his wife took a test with Vantage-Siam in May, and she was issued with a visa on 1st August..

I have queried the above with the visa section at the Embassy in Bangkok. Their response seems ambiguous, so I have queried it again. This, however, is the current response from the Embassy :

I am writing in response to the email you sent regarding the A1 English language testing in Thailand. You have raised two points in your email, regarding the eligibility of BULATS testing and the reference on VFS website to a requirement to provide a test report form for all components (reading, writing, speaking, listening). In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK. With applications that have been submitted on or after 18th July a new list of English language tests is applicable and from this date BULATS tests undertaken in Thailand may be submitted as evidence of language ability.

To me it looks like some applications which include BULATS testing in Bangkok prior to 17th July are being issued, and at least one has been refused. I am happy to be corrected if I am reading all of this wrong.

[bobrussell]

They really need to get their act together. This is not just a piece of paper, it is someones life that is on hold (not to mention a small fortune wasted). How can it make a difference if a test is taken in the UK or Thailand if the test is the same?

This is a good situation for the Embassy to use common sense and give applicants the benefit of the doubt. The safety of the UK is hardly at risk and the country will not sink under the weight of the extra immigrants. They will be coming over as soon as they have taken the same exam again and saved up the hundreds of pounds to pay for a new application.

[toddmeister]

"In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK"

I know of two for certain and heard of others where the BULATS taken through Vantage Siam (NOT in the UK) prior to this date have been accepted by the Embassy. I know this for certain because I met another English guy at Vantage Siam whilst I was there with my wife in May. His wife submitted her application in June and two days ago I received a text from him saying that she had been issued with her visa. Heard similar on another forum too.

The Embassies statement above also does not make sense because Vantage Siam WERE DEFO on the previous list on the VFS website. In March I emailed the contact on the list for centers based in Thailand on the VFS list. Under BULATS it listed Corporate English Consulting as the BULATS agent. I emailed them and recieved a response from Kevin @ Vantage explaining that Vantage Siam was their new corporate name but nothing else had changed, they were still the authorised agents for BULATS in Thailand. Shortly after this, but well before the new list was produced, Kevins details and Vantage Siams address was amended and included on the VFS Thailand list of test providers. Why would they be on the VFS Thailand list if only tests taken in the UK were to be accepted?

As my wife did her BULATS in May,but will not be submitting her application until next month, I also became concerned after reading Phomchobs refusal notice. I emailed the VFS helpline and asked them to confirm whether as my wife took her test in May, and that Vantage Siam were on both the previous AND new list would be accepted. I had a response which basically said something like "I can confirm that BULATS is acceptable from the new list"....doesn't really answer the question!

This is another example of where conflicting info is coming from all angles. To sum up I am aware of three, including Chronos where a BULATS taken through Vantage Siam in Thailand and submitted before 17/07/11 have been successful in obtaining visas. Only heard of one refusal which was Phomchob. All I can say for certain is that Vantage Siam were on defo on the previous list of test providers within Thailand as detailed on the VFS Thailand website. It appears to be the but only where tests were taken in the UK which needs clarification as I can't understand why Vantage would be on the VFS list of test providers if only tests taken in the UK were acceptable?

So is the statement in the Embassies email incorrect, or have ECO's that issued the visas mentioned above made a mistake on at least three seperate ocassions? Now I'm confued all over again.

As my wife did her test through Vantage Siam in May, but has not yet submitted her application, will her test be accepted by the Embassy? Who's answer do we follow, the embassy response above? the fact that visas have already been issued with the same test taken in May? the VFS websites previous list? Grrrrr!!!!

Regards

Edited August 4, 2011 by toddmeister

[VisasPlus]

"In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK"

I know of two for certain and heard of others where the BULATS taken through Vantage Siam (NOT in the UK) prior to this date have been accepted by the Embassy. I know this for certain because I met another English guy at Vantage Siam whilst I was there with my wife in May. His wife submitted her application in June and two days ago I received a text from him saying that she had been issued with her visa. Heard similar on another forum too.

The Embassies statement above also does not make sense because Vantage Siam WERE DEFO on the previous list on the VFS website. In March I emailed the contact on the list for centers based in Thailand on the VFS list. Under BULATS it listed Corporate English Consulting as the BULATS agent. I emailed them and recieved a response from Kevin @ Vantage explaining that Vantage Siam was their new corporate name but nothing else had changed, they were still the authorised agents for BULATS in Thailand. Shortly after this, but well before the new list was produced, Kevins details and Vantage Siams address was amended and included on the VFS Thailand list of test providers. Why would they be on the VFS Thailand list if only tests taken in the UK were to be accepted?

As my wife did her BULATS in May,but will not be submitting her application until next month, I also became concerned after reading Phomchobs refusal notice. I emailed the VFS helpline and asked them to confirm whether as my wife took her test in May, and that Vantage Siam were on both the previous AND new list would be accepted. I had a response which basically said something like "I can confirm that BULATS is acceptable from the new list"....doesn't really answer the question!

This is another example of where conflicting info is coming from all angles. To sum up I am aware of three, including Chronos where a BULATS taken through Vantage Siam in Thailand and submitted before 17/07/11 have been successful in obtaining visas. Only heard of one refusal which was Phomchob. All I can say for certain is that Vantage Siam were on defo on the previous list of test providers within Thailand as detailed on the VFS Thailand website. It appears to be the but only where tests were taken in the UK which needs clarification as I can't understand why Vantage would be on the VFS list of test providers if only tests taken in the UK were acceptable?

So is the statement in the Embassies email incorrect, or have ECO's that issued the visas mentioned above made a mistake on at least three seperate ocassions? Now I'm confued all over again.

As my wife did her test through Vantage Siam in May, but has not yet submitted her application, will her test be accepted by the Embassy? Who's answer do we follow, the embassy response above? the fact that visas have already been issued with the same test taken in May? the VFS websites previous list? Grrrrr!!!!

Regards

Valid questions, toddmeister. And exactly what I have asked the Embassy to clarify. I hope they will let me know quickly as we, and TV, have clients waiting for decisions, and clients also waiting to submit to submit applications, Part of the problem is that, as you know, it is virtually impossible to get to contact anyone in the Embassy. I recently ( just a couple of days ago) sent an email to their "old" address, which actually went to the section I wanted it to go to. Instead of dealing with it, or passing it to right person, they returned it to me with an instruction to re-send it to the correct address ! What a waste of their own time, as well as mine.

Should it transpire that the Embassy, although taking the stance that BULATS certificates taken before 17th July 2011 with Vantage-Siam in Bangkok are invalid, has actually issued to some applicants who have presented similar certificates, then I will be asking the Embassy to issue visas to all such applicants as an act of public faith. To do otherwise, ie not issue when they have already done so to some, would be a breach of public faith. It may be that I am reading the response from the Embassy completely wrongly, and if so, then I await confirmation of that from them. I will post anything that I receive.

[toddmeister]

Hi VisaPlus,

The main thing which gets to me is that the Embassy always direct any visa queries or requests for info to VFS. So understandably people then look at the VFS website for relevant answers. With that in mind, why would Vantage Siam be specified as the BULATS agent on the previous VFS Thailand approved list of providers if the embassy are NOT going to accept tests taken through them??

Today I have also sent an email to the embassy (using the customer services visa feedback address) stating that I could not get a difinative answer from VFS and asking them to clarify if my wifes certificates issued in May will be accepted for her application next month. I am not expecting any kind of prompt reply, if any. But will post again if and when I hear something. I also agree that the fact that there doesn't appear to be anyone I can contact direct to obtain a definative answer is infuriating to say the least.

By doing the English test, TB etc early and with the publishing of the new list I really thought the hard work was behind us. I really can't understand why they seem to make even the simplest of things so hard for everyone.

Regards

Edited August 4, 2011 by toddmeister

[chronos]

"In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK"

I know of two for certain and heard of others where the BULATS taken through Vantage Siam (NOT in the UK) prior to this date have been accepted by the Embassy. I know this for certain because I met another English guy at Vantage Siam whilst I was there with my wife in May. His wife submitted her application in June and two days ago I received a text from him saying that she had been issued with her visa. Heard similar on another forum too.

The Embassies statement above also does not make sense because Vantage Siam WERE DEFO on the previous list on the VFS website. In March I emailed the contact on the list for centers based in Thailand on the VFS list. Under BULATS it listed Corporate English Consulting as the BULATS agent. I emailed them and recieved a response from Kevin @ Vantage explaining that Vantage Siam was their new corporate name but nothing else had changed, they were still the authorised agents for BULATS in Thailand. Shortly after this, but well before the new list was produced, Kevins details and Vantage Siams address was amended and included on the VFS Thailand list of test providers. Why would they be on the VFS Thailand list if only tests taken in the UK were to be accepted?

As my wife did her BULATS in May,but will not be submitting her application until next month, I also became concerned after reading Phomchobs refusal notice. I emailed the VFS helpline and asked them to confirm whether as my wife took her test in May, and that Vantage Siam were on both the previous AND new list would be accepted. I had a response which basically said something like "I can confirm that BULATS is acceptable from the new list"....doesn't really answer the question!

This is another example of where conflicting info is coming from all angles. To sum up I am aware of three, including Chronos where a BULATS taken through Vantage Siam in Thailand and submitted before 17/07/11 have been successful in obtaining visas. Only heard of one refusal which was Phomchob. All I can say for certain is that Vantage Siam were on defo on the previous list of test providers within Thailand as detailed on the VFS Thailand website. It appears to be the but only where tests were taken in the UK which needs clarification as I can't understand why Vantage would be on the VFS list of test providers if only tests taken in the UK were acceptable?

So is the statement in the Embassies email incorrect, or have ECO's that issued the visas mentioned above made a mistake on at least three seperate ocassions? Now I'm confued all over again.

As my wife did her test through Vantage Siam in May, but has not yet submitted her application, will her test be accepted by the Embassy? Who's answer do we follow, the embassy response above? the fact that visas have already been issued with the same test taken in May? the VFS websites previous list? Grrrrr!!!!

Regards

Valid questions, toddmeister. And exactly what I have asked the Embassy to clarify. I hope they will let me know quickly as we, and TV, have clients waiting for decisions, and clients also waiting to submit to submit applications, Part of the problem is that, as you know, it is virtually impossible to get to contact anyone in the Embassy. I recently ( just a couple of days ago) sent an email to their "old" address, which actually went to the section I wanted it to go to. Instead of dealing with it, or passing it to right person, they returned it to me with an instruction to re-send it to the correct address ! What a waste of their own time, as well as mine.

Should it transpire that the Embassy, although taking the stance that BULATS certificates taken before 17th July 2011 with Vantage-Siam in Bangkok are invalid, has actually issued to some applicants who have presented similar certificates, then I will be asking the Embassy to issue visas to all such applicants as an act of public faith. To do otherwise, ie not issue when they have already done so to some, would be a breach of public faith. It may be that I am reading the response from the Embassy completely wrongly, and if so, then I await confirmation of that from them. I will post anything that I receive.

I can understand the need for clarification..but...I just hope that by asking these questions of the Embassy that it does not prompt them to 're-visit' the recent successful visas because basically you are asking them 'have you made a mistake here?..and as you say issued 'invalid visas'...

I just hope to God that you have not 'stirred a hornets nest' resulting in cancelling the recent visas!....where did I put that Valium!

[VisasPlus]

"In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK"

I know of two for certain and heard of others where the BULATS taken through Vantage Siam (NOT in the UK) prior to this date have been accepted by the Embassy. I know this for certain because I met another English guy at Vantage Siam whilst I was there with my wife in May. His wife submitted her application in June and two days ago I received a text from him saying that she had been issued with her visa. Heard similar on another forum too.

The Embassies statement above also does not make sense because Vantage Siam WERE DEFO on the previous list on the VFS website. In March I emailed the contact on the list for centers based in Thailand on the VFS list. Under BULATS it listed Corporate English Consulting as the BULATS agent. I emailed them and recieved a response from Kevin @ Vantage explaining that Vantage Siam was their new corporate name but nothing else had changed, they were still the authorised agents for BULATS in Thailand. Shortly after this, but well before the new list was produced, Kevins details and Vantage Siams address was amended and included on the VFS Thailand list of test providers. Why would they be on the VFS Thailand list if only tests taken in the UK were to be accepted?

As my wife did her BULATS in May,but will not be submitting her application until next month, I also became concerned after reading Phomchobs refusal notice. I emailed the VFS helpline and asked them to confirm whether as my wife took her test in May, and that Vantage Siam were on both the previous AND new list would be accepted. I had a response which basically said something like "I can confirm that BULATS is acceptable from the new list"....doesn't really answer the question!

This is another example of where conflicting info is coming from all angles. To sum up I am aware of three, including Chronos where a BULATS taken through Vantage Siam in Thailand and submitted before 17/07/11 have been successful in obtaining visas. Only heard of one refusal which was Phomchob. All I can say for certain is that Vantage Siam were on defo on the previous list of test providers within Thailand as detailed on the VFS Thailand website. It appears to be the but only where tests were taken in the UK which needs clarification as I can't understand why Vantage would be on the VFS list of test providers if only tests taken in the UK were acceptable?

So is the statement in the Embassies email incorrect, or have ECO's that issued the visas mentioned above made a mistake on at least three seperate ocassions? Now I'm confued all over again.

As my wife did her test through Vantage Siam in May, but has not yet submitted her application, will her test be accepted by the Embassy? Who's answer do we follow, the embassy response above? the fact that visas have already been issued with the same test taken in May? the VFS websites previous list? Grrrrr!!!!

Regards

Valid questions, toddmeister. And exactly what I have asked the Embassy to clarify. I hope they will let me know quickly as we, and TV, have clients waiting for decisions, and clients also waiting to submit to submit applications, Part of the problem is that, as you know, it is virtually impossible to get to contact anyone in the Embassy. I recently ( just a couple of days ago) sent an email to their "old" address, which actually went to the section I wanted it to go to. Instead of dealing with it, or passing it to right person, they returned it to me with an instruction to re-send it to the correct address ! What a waste of their own time, as well as mine.

Should it transpire that the Embassy, although taking the stance that BULATS certificates taken before 17th July 2011 with Vantage-Siam in Bangkok are invalid, has actually issued to some applicants who have presented similar certificates, then I will be asking the Embassy to issue visas to all such applicants as an act of public faith. To do otherwise, ie not issue when they have already done so to some, would be a breach of public faith. It may be that I am reading the response from the Embassy completely wrongly, and if so, then I await confirmation of that from them. I will post anything that I receive.

I can understand the need for clarification..but...I just hope that by asking these questions of the Embassy that it does not prompt them to 're-visit' the recent successful visas because basically you are asking them 'have you made a mistake here?..and as you say issued 'invalid visas'...

I just hope to God that you have not 'stirred a hornets nest' resulting in cancelling the recent visas!....where did I put that Valium!

Chronos, don't worry. The Embassy cannot take away the visa they have already granted to your wife. To do so would be a breach of public faith, and they would be laying themselves open to judicial review - which they will not do because they would lose. If they made a mistake, then they suffer the consequence, not you.

[POMCHOB]

Hi ThaiVisaPlus

This should help i received an email today: Pomchob

Here is the copy of my reply from Vantage- siam :

To protect client confidentiality, we can't give out scores via email because there is no way we can ascertain the validity of the sender.

Having said that, I can confirm that (edited your wife) did take the BULATS tests with us on 20 May 2011. I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening.

(Edited). However she would have had to submit more than one test report result to show all the required language skills required by the UKBA.

As far as test accreditation goes, BULATS, which is run by Cambridge ESOL, has been an approved test since the start of the new requirements for Settlement visas that were implemented in late November 2010.

More specifically to your situation, the UKBA announced a new list on 6 April 2011. BULATS remained on this updated list. This is the relevant list that was in effect when you wife took the test in the latter part of May.

Here's a link to an April Cambridge ESOL news release noting that "Cambridge English qualifications satisfy the new English language requirements for all categories of visa for immigration to the UK…"

BULATS is included in that listing of Cambridge ESOL tests.

Please feel free to have the concerned authorities call or visit us if they have further questions regarding BULATS and its inclusion on the Approved Test Provider list.

Best Regards,

Thailand's Authorized BULATS Agent

65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Bldg., 25^th Floor

Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok 10310

http://www.vantage-siam.com

[chronos]

"In response to the first point, I can confirm where an application was received prior to 17/7/2011, BULATS were acceptable, but only where the tests were taken in the UK"

I know of two for certain and heard of others where the BULATS taken through Vantage Siam (NOT in the UK) prior to this date have been accepted by the Embassy. I know this for certain because I met another English guy at Vantage Siam whilst I was there with my wife in May. His wife submitted her application in June and two days ago I received a text from him saying that she had been issued with her visa. Heard similar on another forum too.

The Embassies statement above also does not make sense because Vantage Siam WERE DEFO on the previous list on the VFS website. In March I emailed the contact on the list for centers based in Thailand on the VFS list. Under BULATS it listed Corporate English Consulting as the BULATS agent. I emailed them and recieved a response from Kevin @ Vantage explaining that Vantage Siam was their new corporate name but nothing else had changed, they were still the authorised agents for BULATS in Thailand. Shortly after this, but well before the new list was produced, Kevins details and Vantage Siams address was amended and included on the VFS Thailand list of test providers. Why would they be on the VFS Thailand list if only tests taken in the UK were to be accepted?

As my wife did her BULATS in May,but will not be submitting her application until next month, I also became concerned after reading Phomchobs refusal notice. I emailed the VFS helpline and asked them to confirm whether as my wife took her test in May, and that Vantage Siam were on both the previous AND new list would be accepted. I had a response which basically said something like "I can confirm that BULATS is acceptable from the new list"....doesn't really answer the question!

This is another example of where conflicting info is coming from all angles. To sum up I am aware of three, including Chronos where a BULATS taken through Vantage Siam in Thailand and submitted before 17/07/11 have been successful in obtaining visas. Only heard of one refusal which was Phomchob. All I can say for certain is that Vantage Siam were on defo on the previous list of test providers within Thailand as detailed on the VFS Thailand website. It appears to be the but only where tests were taken in the UK which needs clarification as I can't understand why Vantage would be on the VFS list of test providers if only tests taken in the UK were acceptable?

So is the statement in the Embassies email incorrect, or have ECO's that issued the visas mentioned above made a mistake on at least three seperate ocassions? Now I'm confued all over again.

As my wife did her test through Vantage Siam in May, but has not yet submitted her application, will her test be accepted by the Embassy? Who's answer do we follow, the embassy response above? the fact that visas have already been issued with the same test taken in May? the VFS websites previous list? Grrrrr!!!!

Regards

Valid questions, toddmeister. And exactly what I have asked the Embassy to clarify. I hope they will let me know quickly as we, and TV, have clients waiting for decisions, and clients also waiting to submit to submit applications, Part of the problem is that, as you know, it is virtually impossible to get to contact anyone in the Embassy. I recently ( just a couple of days ago) sent an email to their "old" address, which actually went to the section I wanted it to go to. Instead of dealing with it, or passing it to right person, they returned it to me with an instruction to re-send it to the correct address ! What a waste of their own time, as well as mine.

Should it transpire that the Embassy, although taking the stance that BULATS certificates taken before 17th July 2011 with Vantage-Siam in Bangkok are invalid, has actually issued to some applicants who have presented similar certificates, then I will be asking the Embassy to issue visas to all such applicants as an act of public faith. To do otherwise, ie not issue when they have already done so to some, would be a breach of public faith. It may be that I am reading the response from the Embassy completely wrongly, and if so, then I await confirmation of that from them. I will post anything that I receive.

I can understand the need for clarification..but...I just hope that by asking these questions of the Embassy that it does not prompt them to 're-visit' the recent successful visas because basically you are asking them 'have you made a mistake here?..and as you say issued 'invalid visas'...

I just hope to God that you have not 'stirred a hornets nest' resulting in cancelling the recent visas!....where did I put that Valium!

Chronos, don't worry. The Embassy cannot take away the visa they have already granted to your wife. To do so would be a breach of public faith, and they would be laying themselves open to judicial review - which they will not do because they would lose. If they made a mistake, then they suffer the consequence, not you.

PHEW!!!!...cheers...'throws Valium in bin!'

[POMCHOB]

Hi ThaiVisaPlus

This should help i received an email today: Pomchob

Here is the copy of my reply from Vantage- siam :

To protect client confidentiality, we can't give out scores via email because there is no way we can ascertain the validity of the sender.

Having said that, I can confirm that (edited your wife) did take the BULATS tests with us on 20 May 2011. I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening.

(Edited). However she would have had to submit more than one test report result to show all the required language skills required by the UKBA.

As far as test accreditation goes, BULATS, which is run by Cambridge ESOL, has been an approved test since the start of the new requirements for Settlement visas that were implemented in late November 2010.

More specifically to your situation, the UKBA announced a new list on 6 April 2011. BULATS remained on this updated list. This is the relevant list that was in effect when you wife took the test in the latter part of May.

Here's a link to an April Cambridge ESOL news release noting that "Cambridge English qualifications satisfy the new English language requirements for all categories of visa for immigration to the UK…"

BULATS is included in that listing of Cambridge ESOL tests.

Please feel free to have the concerned authorities call or visit us if they have further questions regarding BULATS and its inclusion on the Approved Test Provider list.

Best Regards,

Thailand's Authorized BULATS Agent

65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Bldg., 25^th Floor

Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok 10310

http://www.vantage-siam.com

As you can see on my wife refusal letter it states as follows;

You submitted your application on the 26/ 5 /2011

You have submitted an English Language Test certificate that was not on the approved

test provider at the time.In the absence of an original English Language Test Certificate in

Speaking and listening from an English language test certificate provider approved by the

Secretary of State in your name and which meets or exceeds level A1 of the common

European Framework of reference i am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of

paragraph 281 (i)(a)(ii)

Quote from my wifes A1 English tester about her result " I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening."

Pomchob

[raven0099]

Hi ThaiVisaPlus

This should help i received an email today: Pomchob

Here is the copy of my reply from Vantage- siam :

To protect client confidentiality, we can't give out scores via email because there is no way we can ascertain the validity of the sender.

Having said that, I can confirm that (edited your wife) did take the BULATS tests with us on 20 May 2011. I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening.

(Edited). However she would have had to submit more than one test report result to show all the required language skills required by the UKBA.

As far as test accreditation goes, BULATS, which is run by Cambridge ESOL, has been an approved test since the start of the new requirements for Settlement visas that were implemented in late November 2010.

More specifically to your situation, the UKBA announced a new list on 6 April 2011. BULATS remained on this updated list. This is the relevant list that was in effect when you wife took the test in the latter part of May.

Here's a link to an April Cambridge ESOL news release noting that "Cambridge English qualifications satisfy the new English language requirements for all categories of visa for immigration to the UK…"

BULATS is included in that listing of Cambridge ESOL tests.

Please feel free to have the concerned authorities call or visit us if they have further questions regarding BULATS and its inclusion on the Approved Test Provider list.

Best Regards,

Thailand's Authorized BULATS Agent

65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Bldg., 25^th Floor

Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok 10310

http://www.vantage-siam.com

As you can see on my wife refusal letter it states as follows;

You submitted your application on the 26/ 5 /2011

You have submitted an English Language Test certificate that was not on the approved

test provider at the time.In the absence of an original English Language Test Certificate in

Speaking and listening from an English language test certificate provider approved by the

Secretary of State in your name and which meets or exceeds level A1 of the common

European Framework of reference i am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of

paragraph 281 (i)(a)(ii)

Quote from my wifes A1 English tester about her result " I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening."

Pomchob

Hi

So what was missing from her test ? ,

my partner is due to take this test soon so im very concerned about this as we are using vantage siam !

[POMCHOB]

Hi ThaiVisaPlus

This should help i received an email today: Pomchob

Here is the copy of my reply from Vantage- siam :

To protect client confidentiality, we can't give out scores via email because there is no way we can ascertain the validity of the sender.

Having said that, I can confirm that (edited your wife) did take the BULATS tests with us on 20 May 2011. I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening.

(Edited). However she would have had to submit more than one test report result to show all the required language skills required by the UKBA.

As far as test accreditation goes, BULATS, which is run by Cambridge ESOL, has been an approved test since the start of the new requirements for Settlement visas that were implemented in late November 2010.

More specifically to your situation, the UKBA announced a new list on 6 April 2011. BULATS remained on this updated list. This is the relevant list that was in effect when you wife took the test in the latter part of May.

Here's a link to an April Cambridge ESOL news release noting that "Cambridge English qualifications satisfy the new English language requirements for all categories of visa for immigration to the UK…"

BULATS is included in that listing of Cambridge ESOL tests.

Please feel free to have the concerned authorities call or visit us if they have further questions regarding BULATS and its inclusion on the Approved Test Provider list.

Best Regards,

Thailand's Authorized BULATS Agent

65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Bldg., 25^th Floor

Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok 10310

http://www.vantage-siam.com

As you can see on my wife refusal letter it states as follows;

You submitted your application on the 26/ 5 /2011

You have submitted an English Language Test certificate that was not on the approved

test provider at the time.In the absence of an original English Language Test Certificate in

Speaking and listening from an English language test certificate provider approved by the

Secretary of State in your name and which meets or exceeds level A1 of the common

European Framework of reference i am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of

paragraph 281 (i)(a)(ii)

Quote from my wifes A1 English tester about her result " I can also say she exceeded the UKBA requirement for an A1 level in speaking and listening."

Pomchob

Hi

So what was missing from her test ? ,

my partner is due to take this test soon so im very concerned about this as we are using vantage siam !

Hi raven0099 .....No need to worry .

Nothing missing It was just a mix up, my wife thinking she had submitted one certificate in fact it was two certificates, its because of all the documents you submit

in the Visa it's enough to leave anyone's memory frazzled .The officer didn't state there was anything missing ,she is saying in its absence.. meaning it was

the wrong A1English provider , which we all know is clearly a wrong decision in the refusal letter.

If you contact Kevin he is very helpful and can even send your partner a practice test if she needs one giving you an idea of the test.

http://www.vantage-siam.com contact Kevin info@vanta​ge-siam.com

Good luck from Pomchob

Edited August 5, 2011 by POMCHOB

[VisasPlus]

I have now received further clarification from the British Embassy in Bangkok. Whilst not admitting that they gave the wrong information earlier, they now state:

I may have confused matters a little by referring to on line tests from BULATS. Whilst this is a requirement specified on the UKBA list of English language tests for PBS and spouses, civil partners etc we also have a local list of test providers in Thailand and BULATS has been on this list since the introduction of spouse testing last November.

They further state:

Just to clarify, the list of test providers in Thailand changed from 18th July and we currently have the following test centres in Thailand:

PEARSON Pearson Professional Center Bangkok Business Building Level 10, Unit 10-10 54, Thanon Sukhumvit Soi 21, Bangkok Thailand, 10110

TOEIC Center for Professional Assessment - Bangkok Suite 1907, Bangkok Business Building 54 Asoke Road, Sukhumvit 21 Bangkok 10110 Thailand +66 (0) 2260 7061 +66 (0) 22664 3122 Center for Professional Assessment - Chiang Mai Nawarat Building 3rd Floor Kaeo Nawarat Soi 3 Amphur Muang Chiangmai 50000 Thailand

BULATS Vantage Siam Co. Ltd. 65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Building, 25th Floor, Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok. 10310

As far as I understand it, from this reply. BULATS tests taken with Vantage - Siam at any date since the test was introduced, are acceptable. It would look like one of the refusal reasons for Pomchob was incorrect. I would advise Pomchob to contact the Embassy dierect on this point. There are, however, other reasons for refusal also.

[fatpig2]

100% sure BULLATS (and its local Thai-based agent) are fully accepted by the UKBA.

[VisasPlus]

100% sure BULLATS (and its local Thai-based agent) are fully accepted by the UKBA.

I just said that, and quoted the official reply.

[toddmeister]

Thanks for the update VisaPlus. The embassy have yet to respond to my enquiry but your response pretty much answers the question. Very reasuring.

Cheers

[fatpig2]

I just said that, and quoted the official reply.

And I just legitimise your reply.

Edited August 8, 2011 by fatpig2

[Frogster]

And I just legitimise your reply.

Actually you don't.... To legitamise is to give legal value to, or establish as the legal correctnes, you do neither, you mearly agree.

I really start to find your tone objectionable.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

100% sure BULLATS (and its local Thai-based agent) are fully accepted by the UKBA.

I just said that, and quoted the official reply.

At this moment in time I have never come across such incompetency from the Embassy in Bangkok.

Well done for challenging them Tony.

[toddmeister]

I have now received further clarification from the British Embassy in Bangkok. Whilst not admitting that they gave the wrong information earlier, they now state:

I may have confused matters a little by referring to on line tests from BULATS. Whilst this is a requirement specified on the UKBA list of English language tests for PBS and spouses, civil partners etc we also have a local list of test providers in Thailand and BULATS has been on this list since the introduction of spouse testing last November.

They further state:

Just to clarify, the list of test providers in Thailand changed from 18th July and we currently have the following test centres in Thailand:

PEARSON Pearson Professional Center Bangkok Business Building Level 10, Unit 10-10 54, Thanon Sukhumvit Soi 21, Bangkok Thailand, 10110

TOEIC Center for Professional Assessment - Bangkok Suite 1907, Bangkok Business Building 54 Asoke Road, Sukhumvit 21 Bangkok 10110 Thailand +66 (0) 2260 7061 +66 (0) 22664 3122 Center for Professional Assessment - Chiang Mai Nawarat Building 3rd Floor Kaeo Nawarat Soi 3 Amphur Muang Chiangmai 50000 Thailand

BULATS Vantage Siam Co. Ltd. 65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Building, 25th Floor, Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok. 10310

As far as I understand it, from this reply. BULATS tests taken with Vantage - Siam at any date since the test was introduced, are acceptable. It would look like one of the refusal reasons for Pomchob was incorrect. I would advise Pomchob to contact the Embassy dierect on this point. There are, however, other reasons for refusal also.

Hi VisaPlus

I realise since posting a while back the situation has been clarified by your above email. But just to add more weight and confirm the above, today I too received a response from the Embassy (after almost 3 weeks of waiting). I basically asked them to clarify whether my wifes BULATS test taken in May would be accepted for her application which will be submitted in September. This was their reply:-

We are writing in response to your e-mail of 04 August 2011, we can confirm that the Vantage Siam testing and a BULATS rated at A1 or higher from them is acceptable.

However please be assured that the Vantage Siam testers are currently on our list of testers for Thailand.

For further information please check the most recent information on VFS website:

http://www.vfs-uk-th.com/applying.aspx

We hope that you find this information useful.

Just thought I'd post the Embassies reply, again to confirm what we already knew.

Regards

[VisasPlus]

I have now received further clarification from the British Embassy in Bangkok. Whilst not admitting that they gave the wrong information earlier, they now state:

I may have confused matters a little by referring to on line tests from BULATS. Whilst this is a requirement specified on the UKBA list of English language tests for PBS and spouses, civil partners etc we also have a local list of test providers in Thailand and BULATS has been on this list since the introduction of spouse testing last November.

They further state:

Just to clarify, the list of test providers in Thailand changed from 18th July and we currently have the following test centres in Thailand:

PEARSON Pearson Professional Center Bangkok Business Building Level 10, Unit 10-10 54, Thanon Sukhumvit Soi 21, Bangkok Thailand, 10110

TOEIC Center for Professional Assessment - Bangkok Suite 1907, Bangkok Business Building 54 Asoke Road, Sukhumvit 21 Bangkok 10110 Thailand +66 (0) 2260 7061 +66 (0) 22664 3122 Center for Professional Assessment - Chiang Mai Nawarat Building 3rd Floor Kaeo Nawarat Soi 3 Amphur Muang Chiangmai 50000 Thailand

BULATS Vantage Siam Co. Ltd. 65/213 Chamnan Phenjati Building, 25th Floor, Rama 9 Road, Huay Kwang, Bangkok. 10310

As far as I understand it, from this reply. BULATS tests taken with Vantage - Siam at any date since the test was introduced, are acceptable. It would look like one of the refusal reasons for Pomchob was incorrect. I would advise Pomchob to contact the Embassy dierect on this point. There are, however, other reasons for refusal also.

Hi VisaPlus

I realise since posting a while back the situation has been clarified by your above email. But just to add more weight and confirm the above, today I too received a response from the Embassy (after almost 3 weeks of waiting). I basically asked them to clarify whether my wifes BULATS test taken in May would be accepted for her application which will be submitted in September. This was their reply:-

We are writing in response to your e-mail of 04 August 2011, we can confirm that the Vantage Siam testing and a BULATS rated at A1 or higher from them is acceptable.

However please be assured that the Vantage Siam testers are currently on our list of testers for Thailand.

For further information please check the most recent information on VFS website:

http://www.vfs-uk-th.com/applying.aspx

We hope that you find this information useful.

Just thought I'd post the Embassies reply, again to confirm what we already knew.

Regards

Thanks for posting the confirmation. It is a shame that the Embassy cannot provide a better service ( 3 weeks is indefensible for a response of this importance). They still seem totally oblivious to the fact that they are a public department, and still show no accountability whatsoever for, for instance, their wrong refusal ( in POMCHOB's case ).

[VisasPlus]

Further to my post above. I posted the following on another thread. I contacted the Embassy to query the fact that A1 test applicants are required ( with at least one of the 3 approved testers in Thailand) to take a four-part test in order to get the the required two parts of the A1 test ( listening and speaking). This is what I posted :

I queried, with the British Embassy Visa Section, the fact that A1 English applicants have to take a four part test ( with at least one approved tester in Thailand ) in order to qualify in only two parts. I received this reply earlier this week :

I have forwarded your question to policy colleagues in the UK, who have given details of some providers who offer testing in the two components we require. They have cited The TOEIC test at Level A1 from Educational Testing Service and Spoken English at Level A1 fromTrinity College London as examples. If the applicant is not able to undertake one of these tests, it will mean testing in all four components as most tests are only available in this format. As I am sure you are aware UKBA are not qualified to set and assess their own tests and therefore most applicants will need to sit all four components. To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

So, it looks like, until a new approved tester comes along, with a test tailored for settlement visas, applicants will have to carry on with the current limited choice of testers. Also remember that the current government propsals on Family Migration recommend rasing the level of English required to pass the test to B1 level CEFR.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Further to my post above. I posted the following on another thread. I contacted the Embassy to query the fact that A1 test applicants are required ( with at least one of the 3 approved testers in Thailand) to take a four-part test in order to get the the required two parts of the A1 test ( listening and speaking). This is what I posted :

I queried, with the British Embassy Visa Section, the fact that A1 English applicants have to take a four part test ( with at least one approved tester in Thailand ) in order to qualify in only two parts. I received this reply earlier this week :

I have forwarded your question to policy colleagues in the UK, who have given details of some providers who offer testing in the two components we require. They have cited The TOEIC test at Level A1 from Educational Testing Service and Spoken English at Level A1 fromTrinity College London as examples. If the applicant is not able to undertake one of these tests, it will mean testing in all four components as most tests are only available in this format. As I am sure you are aware UKBA are not qualified to set and assess their own tests and therefore most applicants will need to sit all four components. To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

So, it looks like, until a new approved tester comes along, with a test tailored for settlement visas, applicants will have to carry on with the current limited choice of testers. Also remember that the current government propsals on Family Migration recommend rasing the level of English required to pass the test to B1 level CEFR.

We had this scenario our client had passed the Speaking & Listening but failed the writing part of the test, good information Tony.

[manxlad]

Further to my post above. I posted the following on another thread. I contacted the Embassy to query the fact that A1 test applicants are required ( with at least one of the 3 approved testers in Thailand) to take a four-part test in order to get the the required two parts of the A1 test ( listening and speaking). This is what I posted :

I queried, with the British Embassy Visa Section, the fact that A1 English applicants have to take a four part test ( with at least one approved tester in Thailand ) in order to qualify in only two parts. I received this reply earlier this week :

I have forwarded your question to policy colleagues in the UK, who have given details of some providers who offer testing in the two components we require. They have cited The TOEIC test at Level A1 from Educational Testing Service and Spoken English at Level A1 fromTrinity College London as examples. If the applicant is not able to undertake one of these tests, it will mean testing in all four components as most tests are only available in this format. As I am sure you are aware UKBA are not qualified to set and assess their own tests and therefore most applicants will need to sit all four components. To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

So, it looks like, until a new approved tester comes along, with a test tailored for settlement visas, applicants will have to carry on with the current limited choice of testers. Also remember that the current government propsals on Family Migration recommend rasing the level of English required to pass the test to B1 level CEFR.

We had this scenario our client had passed the Speaking & Listening but failed the writing part of the test, good information Tony.

hi visasplus

can i confirm that what you have posted means that when my wife takes her A1 test with BULATS that she will have to take all 4 components, but only needs to get passes on speaking and listening for her settlement visa. i have been really worried about the reading and especially the writing as i know she will never pass that. but if she can get just passes in the speaking and listening and a cert to show this then that would be a big relief

. is this the definite case?

cheers

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Further to my post above. I posted the following on another thread. I contacted the Embassy to query the fact that A1 test applicants are required ( with at least one of the 3 approved testers in Thailand) to take a four-part test in order to get the the required two parts of the A1 test ( listening and speaking). This is what I posted :

I queried, with the British Embassy Visa Section, the fact that A1 English applicants have to take a four part test ( with at least one approved tester in Thailand ) in order to qualify in only two parts. I received this reply earlier this week :

I have forwarded your question to policy colleagues in the UK, who have given details of some providers who offer testing in the two components we require. They have cited The TOEIC test at Level A1 from Educational Testing Service and Spoken English at Level A1 fromTrinity College London as examples. If the applicant is not able to undertake one of these tests, it will mean testing in all four components as most tests are only available in this format. As I am sure you are aware UKBA are not qualified to set and assess their own tests and therefore most applicants will need to sit all four components. To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

So, it looks like, until a new approved tester comes along, with a test tailored for settlement visas, applicants will have to carry on with the current limited choice of testers. Also remember that the current government propsals on Family Migration recommend rasing the level of English required to pass the test to B1 level CEFR.

We had this scenario our client had passed the Speaking & Listening but failed the writing part of the test, good information Tony.

hi visasplus

can i confirm that what you have posted means that when my wife takes her A1 test with BULATS that she will have to take all 4 components, but only needs to get passes on speaking and listening for her settlement visa. i have been really worried about the reading and especially the writing as i know she will never pass that. but if she can get just passes in the speaking and listening and a cert to show this then that would be a big relief

. is this the definite case?

cheers

Yes that's correct information.

[VisasPlus]

Further to my post above. I posted the following on another thread. I contacted the Embassy to query the fact that A1 test applicants are required ( with at least one of the 3 approved testers in Thailand) to take a four-part test in order to get the the required two parts of the A1 test ( listening and speaking). This is what I posted :

I queried, with the British Embassy Visa Section, the fact that A1 English applicants have to take a four part test ( with at least one approved tester in Thailand ) in order to qualify in only two parts. I received this reply earlier this week :

I have forwarded your question to policy colleagues in the UK, who have given details of some providers who offer testing in the two components we require. They have cited The TOEIC test at Level A1 from Educational Testing Service and Spoken English at Level A1 fromTrinity College London as examples. If the applicant is not able to undertake one of these tests, it will mean testing in all four components as most tests are only available in this format. As I am sure you are aware UKBA are not qualified to set and assess their own tests and therefore most applicants will need to sit all four components. To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

So, it looks like, until a new approved tester comes along, with a test tailored for settlement visas, applicants will have to carry on with the current limited choice of testers. Also remember that the current government propsals on Family Migration recommend rasing the level of English required to pass the test to B1 level CEFR.

We had this scenario our client had passed the Speaking & Listening but failed the writing part of the test, good information Tony.

hi visasplus

can i confirm that what you have posted means that when my wife takes her A1 test with BULATS that she will have to take all 4 components, but only needs to get passes on speaking and listening for her settlement visa. i have been really worried about the reading and especially the writing as i know she will never pass that. but if she can get just passes in the speaking and listening and a cert to show this then that would be a big relief

. is this the definite case?

cheers

Yes, as TVE says, this is definite. Confirmation is in the letter to me from the British Embassy ( this sentence - To reiterate, though, the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules. )

[marksm]

well my t/g took the test at 1pm yesterday and the lady who worked for bulats told her she had too pass the writing as well for the ukba

and just a moan really why would questions about companys and conferances got to do with basic english ? cause these was the question my g/f was asked

[VisasPlus]

well my t/g took the test at 1pm yesterday and the lady who worked for bulats told her she had too pass the writing as well for the ukba

and just a moan really why would questions about companys and conferances got to do with basic english ? cause these was the question my g/f was asked

Well, with respect to the lady who works for BULATS ( or, I guess, Vantage-Siam in Bangkok) she is wrong. She doesn't decide what is required by UKBA for visa applications, UKBA does. The letter I have quoted is from UKBA, not from the tester. With regard to the content of the test, I agree with you, but the approved testers set the tests, not UKBA. Perhaps if more people would make their feelings and comments known to UKBA, then maybe they will do something about it, But, just commenting about it on the thread here will not get anything done.

I'll say it again, although it must be geting boring; the Family Migration proposals also include a proposal to raise the level of English required by a spouse or partner visa applicant ( from A1 level to B1 level ). If you think it is tough now, then what will the higher level be like ? You can make your feelings known by responding in the Family Migration proposal questionnaire. The link is in my earlier post.

[malct]

at the end of the day, its the testers who are milking the system for their own gains.

If people just require a simple speaking and listening test, then that's what they should have and pay for.

Malc

[Frogster]

Ok,lets assemble all this information and see where we get to.

1) The UKBA have produced a list of testers and suitable English tests that can be taken in Thailand and published this list on the VFS Global (Thailand) Website.This list can be found by clicking "here"

2) The BULATS test is suitable, and the list details the following requirements:- Applicants must submit a test report form for all components (reading, writing, speaking, listening) and the Grade required to achieve A1 is:- Reading– 10, Listening – 10, Speaking – 1, Writing – 1.

3) In a letter from the UKBA (Thailand) to Visa Express, the following statement was made, "the applicants will not be assessed on the reading and writing components. The ECO will only assess the application on speaking and listening as required by the Immigration Rules". For further information please check the most recent information on VFS website:

So when we check the most recent information on VFS website, we find ourselves back at "Point 1" above and stuck in a loop.

So, with regard to the lady who works for BULATS ( or, I guess, Vantage-Siam in Bangkok) and who tells people that they have to take all 4 components…. she is technically correct, if you follow the guidelines on the UKBA / VFS site referenced above, it also states you have to score to achieve A1.

The UKBA say (if you go the BULATS route, in accordance with the test format), you must take all 4 parts of the test, you also must score in all 4 parts of the test, you must also submit a test report form for all 4 parts of the test (or you fail).

But then, the UKBA ECO,s will disregard this information, (providing it has been supplied correctly as above) and interpret the Immigration rules in a different way from their policy making section at the UKBA and Immigration, and allow you to "pass" with just Speaking and Listening.

Thats not so bad, I hear you shout..... The seriousness of this is….. What else lays beneath the surface that we don't know about, how can we have faith in the UKBA to look at all our other supporting Visa information correctly when they can't even interpret a simple policy correctly?

Edited August 27, 2011 by Frogster