Democrats To Target Yingluck And Surapong For Impeachment

[tlansford]

It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary.

That IS how they came to power last time. It is manipulation of the system, not winning elections, that seems to be their strategy...

[ozzieman05]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

What are you going on about, if these people committed an offence against the law then they are the opposition and it is there job to defend the law

Do you want a opposition that does its job or just sit and accept every thing every one with money can do at there own wim'

To me it looks like there is more to this than is seen

But I have no say in the matter, but the Thai wife who used to be a Thaskin lover now say's

Let him back so some one can shoot him

[hanuman1]

the problem here is the new government is dead set on bringing Thaksin back. Yingluck said she's not working on it, but her Thaksin appointed foreign minister is. The next mob will be even bigger and more aggressive if people get paid to get on a bus to Bangkok and know their families will get 10 mil if they die. Send all the boys and girls to Bangkok. Impeachment should not be out of the question, nor should the watchdog agency sit back for 6 months, ooops, change that to 1 year and just let the new government "prove" themselves. That would be too late in my opinion. :jap:

It can be argued that bringing Thaksin back was always going to be an aim of a PTP government, but of course openly announcing it as a policy would have been not only devisive but politically negligent since it would have pushed all their other policies further into the background.

So it has always been an accepted white elephant among the electorate, but compared to the other white elephants constantly present in the room, this one was a baby.

Edited August 18, 2011 by hanuman1

[SICHONSTEVE]

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

+1 As the saying goes, too queeeek.

No doubt PTP will use legal arguments to make it go away, just like the dems used, no need to defend yourself or deny the actions, just make sure using the legal system that you never have to admit or deny,

The Democrat's lawyers are far more able than Pheu Thai's amateurs and will always have more success in realising their aims of besmirching the PT party whilst being able to counter accusations against the Democrat's.

Also, the PT MP's are less scrupulous, not very clever and careless in leaving themselves exposed to par-taking in corruption practises, as greed is often the reason for becoming an MP for quite a number of the non-elitist Northern/North eastern members of parliament who have probably spent a sizeable proportion of their working lives as farmers, or the like!!

With those accusations of perjury hanging over Yingluck and the fact that a majority of "red shirts" and Thai's in general are dead set AGAINST Thaksin returning, it was always going to be risky in choosing her as PT's leader. That she must be subservient in carrying out big bruv's orders is always going to create massive problems for her and the government. She has been lieing through her teeth about everything Thaksin and if she is found to be doing something (with proof of it) dodgy relating to getting his passport back then the Democrat lawyers will jump on her back and climb all over her!!! Goodbye Yingluck?????

[drdoom6996]

I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country. After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole. I'm sure many posters here would agree.

I agree with the article. They should have been seeking extradition not getting him a visa. In the west it probably happens. But it does not make the front page. Uphold the law or change it. Just like Taksin did before the sale of Shin Corp.

[rubl]

After the excursion let's go back to the OP and the latest update posted here

"The Democrat party legal team resolved to file an impeachment of Mr Surapong and will collect the names of 125 MPs, one in four of the total parliamentary seats of 500," said Mr Nipit.

"Legal proceedings will also be filed against the foreign minister as the law indicates that those who facilitate escape for persons fleeing a court's detention order could face maximum 3-year jail term or Bt6,000," he said.

Mr Nipit asserted the foreign minister is well informed that Mr Thaksin planned to enter Japan. Instead of coordinating with the Office of Attorney General and the police to bring him back for prosecution, the minister stayed inactive on the matter and asked Japan to facilitate the trip of the convicted ex-premier.

With all the denials of k. Suraporn, the contradictions (PM Ms. Yingluck didn't know of course) to go for impeachment only seems logical. The legal proceedings will follow the normal, slow Thai way, don't hold your breath on that one.

[lannarebirth]

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

+1 As the saying goes, too queeeek.

No doubt PTP will use legal arguments to make it go away, just like the dems used, no need to defend yourself or deny the actions, just make sure using the legal system that you never have to admit or deny,

The Democrat's lawyers are far more able than Pheu Thai's amateurs and will always have more success in realising their aims of besmirching the PT party whilst being able to counter accusations against the Democrat's.

Also, the PT MP's are less scrupulous, not very clever and careless in leaving themselves exposed to par-taking in corruption practises, as greed is often the reason for becoming an MP for quite a number of the non-elitist Northern/North eastern members of parliament who have probably spent a sizeable proportion of their working lives as farmers, or the like!!

With those accusations of perjury hanging over Yingluck and the fact that a majority of "red shirts" and Thai's in general are dead set AGAINST Thaksin returning, it was always going to be risky in choosing her as PT's leader. That she must be subservient in carrying out big bruv's orders is always going to create massive problems for her and the government. She has been lieing through her teeth about everything Thaksin and if she is found to be doing something (with proof of it) dodgy relating to getting his passport back then the Democrat lawyers will jump on her back and climb all over her!!! Goodbye Yingluck?????

I wouldn't focus too much on Yingluck. She's like the sacrificial anode affixed to the hull of a pirate ship. This is a Potjaman, Yaowapa, Payap, Thaksin party. She is merely a tool for misdirection.

[hanuman1]

he will be the down fall of his sisters government as they will spend all of there time and energy getting him home.

All that time and energy seems even the sillier when one thinks that all he actually has to do to get home is jump on his private jet. Do it now and he could be back here by this afternoon. If only he didn't insist on the bit about not facing justice, how quickly and easily this mess would go away. Might even set in motion others being forced to have their day in court. A small sacrifice you would think. Two or three months in a comfy cell - perhaps even just house arrest. The other charges dropped. Thailand back to normality.

One can dream...

Totally agree. If Thaksin could consider his place in Thai history - look at the long term - he'd find that as a result of two or three months in a comfy cell not only would it shut up many of his detractors and give him a chance at a more accepted rehabilitation into Thai politics, it would also illustrate to leaders in years to come that even the highest among them can be brought to book, thus encouraging better leadership.

But to single out one Thai politician for not having such foresight at the expense of shorter-term personal gain would for some people be unfair since they are all generally considered to be similarly ambitious and selfish. The fact that he has an historic opportunity to improve Thai politics in the future doesn't make it any more likely that he will.

Edited August 18, 2011 by hanuman1

[ozzieman05]

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Can you please tell me all these problems they have looked and and fixed

or is it all talk to cover up other things intended

[ozzieman05]

And there are some on here who don't believe Yingluck is a puppet of her brother

My wife also told me Thai's believe all Farang make $7000 a week, and she believed this to be true before travelling outside Thailand

Believing does not make it a fact

[SICHONSTEVE]

No doubt PTP will use legal arguments to make it go away, just like the dems used, no need to defend yourself or deny the actions, just make sure using the legal system that you never have to admit or deny,

The Democrat's lawyers are far more able than Pheu Thai's amateurs and will always have more success in realising their aims of besmirching the PT party whilst being able to counter accusations against the Democrat's.

Also, the PT MP's are less scrupulous, not very clever and careless in leaving themselves exposed to par-taking in corruption practises, as greed is often the reason for becoming an MP for quite a number of the non-elitist Northern/North eastern members of parliament who have probably spent a sizeable proportion of their working lives as farmers, or the like!!

With those accusations of perjury hanging over Yingluck and the fact that a majority of "red shirts" and Thai's in general are dead set AGAINST Thaksin returning, it was always going to be risky in choosing her as PT's leader. That she must be subservient in carrying out big bruv's orders is always going to create massive problems for her and the government. She has been lieing through her teeth about everything Thaksin and if she is found to be doing something (with proof of it) dodgy relating to getting his passport back then the Democrat lawyers will jump on her back and climb all over her!!! Goodbye Yingluck?????

I wouldn't focus too much on Yingluck. She's like the sacrificial anode affixed to the hull of a pirate ship. This is a Potjaman, Yaowapa, Payap, Thaksin party. She is merely a tool for misdirection.

But she is a major player in all this as she's the boss and he is her brother!!!

[geovalin]

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

This is an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)

or

They are obliged to obey to the Invisible Hand because the Democrat Party is just a tool.

[OzMick]

I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country. After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole. I'm sure many posters here would agree.

"I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country."

Could you please explain how this is any different to the actions of Thaksin/PTP/red shirts over the last 3 years? At least we haven't seen any armed insurrection or border crossings by neighbouring countries as of yet.

" After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole." OTOH this is definitely NOT Thaksin/PTP/red shirts, the antithesis even. Some people might even think that adhering strictly to the law of the land is an admirable thing, one of the pillars of Democracy - western thinking, eh?

[jonclark]

This whole saga just smacks of inexperience. Surely PTP isn't that stupid that it would assume that a) this can of worms would remain closed or b )once the can is opened the dems would let this opportunity slide by. A spectacular gaff in anyone's book, total inexperience - the wrong man for the wrong job sack him now before he puts a tick in the wrong box and signs over half of issan to Cambodia.

You cannot blame the dems for the impeachment proceedings- a classic own goal by PTP at this rate they'll be disbanded by Halloween

Edited August 18, 2011 by jonclark

[SICHONSTEVE]

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Progress, my foot!!! She hasn't done ANYTHING yet apart from forming a crap cabinet that are biased and inept beyond belief. As for her not making problems - she started well before the election and is systemmatically making many more every day!! She is pathetic and bad for Thailand!!!! As for Thaksin well...........!!!! probably best I don't comment

Edited August 18, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[jonclark]

I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country. After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole. I'm sure many posters here would agree.

"I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country."

Could you please explain how this is any different to the actions of Thaksin/PTP/red shirts over the last 3 years? At least we haven't seen any armed insurrection or border crossings by neighbouring countries as of yet.

" After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole." OTOH this is definitely NOT Thaksin/PTP/red shirts, the antithesis even. Some people might even think that adhering strictly to the law of the land is an admirable thing, one of the pillars of Democracy - western thinking, eh?

Bkkorupcountry - Perhaps you'd be so good as to explain the consequences for the country if the LAW isn't upheld?

[Cnxforever]

After the excursion let's go back to the OP and the latest update posted here

"The Democrat party legal team resolved to file an impeachment of Mr Surapong and will collect the names of 125 MPs, one in four of the total parliamentary seats of 500," said Mr Nipit.

"Legal proceedings will also be filed against the foreign minister as the law indicates that those who facilitate escape for persons fleeing a court's detention order could face maximum 3-year jail term or Bt6,000," he said.

Mr Nipit asserted the foreign minister is well informed that Mr Thaksin planned to enter Japan. Instead of coordinating with the Office of Attorney General and the police to bring him back for prosecution, the minister stayed inactive on the matter and asked Japan to facilitate the trip of the convicted ex-premier.

With all the denials of k. Suraporn, the contradictions (PM Ms. Yingluck didn't know of course) to go for impeachment only seems logical. The legal proceedings will follow the normal, slow Thai way, don't hold your breath on that one.

The legal proceedings will not only follow the normal slow Thai way - but the "current political Flavour"! Nothing else is expected.

Thaksin was acquitted of hiding his assets with the help of the very people who later tried to get rid of him - the judicial joke of the century - accidentally transferring billions to the maid and driver and puppets calling themselves judges letting him get away with it.

And some people here still believe in judicial decisions – an independent judiciary in Thailand is wishful thinking when it comes to the powerful and connected. Decisions sway according to the political flavour of the day and influental people who seem above the law.

[OzMick]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

Does anyone know of any politician being successfully "Impeached"?

CA Governor Gray Davis

[Samuian]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

Does anyone know of any politician being successfully "Impeached"?

Yes Lionel Cranfield in the 15th Century, Lord Treasurer in the reign of James I.!

[Soutpeel]

So with all this going on.....Wonder if old squarehead will cancel his trip to Japan ?....same as he has done with Cambodia once he was found out

[jdinasia]

he will be the down fall of his sisters government as they will spend all of there time and energy getting him home.

All that time and energy seems even the sillier when one thinks that all he actually has to do to get home is jump on his private jet. Do it now and he could be back here by this afternoon. If only he didn't insist on the bit about not facing justice, how quickly and easily this mess would go away. Might even set in motion others being forced to have their day in court. A small sacrifice you would think. Two or three months in a comfy cell - perhaps even just house arrest. The other charges dropped. Thailand back to normality.

One can dream...

He can't accept a sentence with jail time as it would preclude him from running for public office. (MP status)

[OzMick]

This whole saga just smacks of inexperience. Surely PTP isn't that stupid that it would assume that a) this can of worms would remain closed or b )once the can is opened the dems would let this opportunity slide by. A spectacular gaff in anyone's book, total inexperience - the wrong man for the wrong job sack him now before he puts a tick in the wrong box and signs over half of issan to Cambodia.

You cannot blame the dems for the impeachment proceedings- a classic own goal by PTP at this rate they'll be disbanded by Halloween

Is there another box for all of it? At least then they would be rich, millionaires even, when they change THB for Cambodian Riels

[rixalex]

And some people here still believe in judicial decisions – an independent judiciary in Thailand is wishful thinking when it comes to the powerful and connected. Decisions sway according to the political flavour of the day and influental people who seem above the law.

Which means we either accept them all as equally valid, or dismiss them all as equally not. Problems arise when you have people wanting to cherry pick when they abide by them, and when they don't. Thaksin was happy enough when the courts found ridiculously in his favour regarding hidden assets, so the thing to do when they found against him was to put up his hands and say, "yep, you got me at me own game, well played"... and then take his punishment.

[Soutpeel]

He can't accept a sentence with jail time as it would preclude him from running for public office. (MP status)

But he has said time and time again he has no interest in re-entering politics and just wants to lead a quiet life....your are surely not suggesting the saviour of Thailand is telling porkies...

Based on the comments he has made I would think doing time in the nick would meet both his criteria....ie banned from politics and 2 years of quiet time in a 6 X 4 cell (private of course)

[softgeorge]

The Dems just will not accept that the lost the election. Give the democratically elected government a chance to do something. How long has she been sworn in, a week? What next yellow shirts blockading the airport next month?

[rixalex]

he will be the down fall of his sisters government as they will spend all of there time and energy getting him home.

All that time and energy seems even the sillier when one thinks that all he actually has to do to get home is jump on his private jet. Do it now and he could be back here by this afternoon. If only he didn't insist on the bit about not facing justice, how quickly and easily this mess would go away. Might even set in motion others being forced to have their day in court. A small sacrifice you would think. Two or three months in a comfy cell - perhaps even just house arrest. The other charges dropped. Thailand back to normality.

One can dream...

He can't accept a sentence with jail time as it would preclude him from running for public office. (MP status)

I don't think it would. Yes, i know that's what the law says, but what does that mean? Laws aren't fixed.

[Soutpeel]

What next yellow shirts blockading the airport next month?

Been done before, one would hope they would be a little more creative and come up with something new....

[Jingthing]

The Dems just will not accept that the lost the election. Give the democratically elected government a chance to do something. How long has she been sworn in, a week? What next yellow shirts blockading the airport next month?

I think you're not getting it. It is clear now that PTP is RUSHING to get Thaksin back. Thaksin's opposition, for very good and totally rational reasons strongly opposes Thaksin coming back. It's bad enough that he is running the show through little sister. So what are they supposed to do, wait until it is too late!?! For Thaksin's opposition, it is now or never, because this is happening faster than people feared.

[ozzieman05]

He can't accept a sentence with jail time as it would preclude him from running for public office. (MP status)

But he has said time and time again he has no interest in re-entering politics and just wants to lead a quiet life....your are surely not suggesting the saviour of Thailand is telling porkies...

Based on the comments he has made I would think doing time in the nick would meet both his criteria....ie banned from politics and 2 years of quiet time in a 6 X 4 cell (private of course)

Thaskin only wants PEACE this is a FACT

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A Piece of every 1000 baht in Government Politics

[Misterwhisper]

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

You are wrong.

The government at the time was led by the People Power Party (a Thai Rak Thai re-incarnation) under Thaksin's brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat.

Both Thaksin and his then-spouse Potjaman were free on bail. They requested to leave the country for a short trip in order to attend the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games in Beijing. They then didn't return to Thailand, but flew straight to the U.K.

Thaksin was convicted and sentenced in absentia, i.e. after he had jumped bail and effectively exiled himself (like every 'innocent' person would do). Potjaman was acquitted, but Thaksin received 2 years.