Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies Of 169 Missing Red-Shirts

[adder]

Hi guys, sorry I'm late, had to work. I did go through all 237 posts, but it seems I didn't miss much.

Strictly speaking we're still at '169 bodies found at three places in temple complexes, brought there probably April 2010'. Start 'Police acted on suspicion of red-shirts missing' and end with 'I readheard it, so we went looking'. Most of the 237 posts are a rehash of pro/anti whoever, nothing new. The usual suspects posting as well.

With mass hysteria over (I hope) we can have some calm professional look into this matter? Maybe ask Dr. Pornthip to look at the bodies. It should be relatively easy to determine how old these bodies are.

(edit: add: change from 223 to 237 posts, there still coming in )

It was all going quite well until you mentioned Porntip.

After public performance with the bomb scanner front and centre with the army no less, I would expect if these bodies were buried wearing red shirts, with placards from the protest site, clutching copies of Thaksin today, with digital cameras with pictures taken from behind the barricades 30 minutes before the crackdown occured, she would probably conclude that there was a mass suicide after a Man U versus Liverpool match, being watched in a printing factory, where the employees had just been given free digital cameras as gifts, where the pictures had been received via high speed internet.

Now we all know that isn't true, because 3g wasn't around back then.

Why ar you so bias ? dear me

[Buchholz]

All the corpses being male is intriguing.

It was my experience watching Red Shirt rallies was they were overwhelmingly attended to by women.

.

How could anyone already know that all 169 were males, when the remains were largely bones? It would take a trained pathologist to work that out from what were likely incomplete skeletons.

Just one more in the chain of unsupported assumptions that are being spread to support a particular point of view.

Just going by the news reports within the thread, albeit for what they are worth, that is what was reported.

Until they are identified, I have no particular point of view on the issue.

.

[webfact]

Red-shirt Leaders Demand Speedy Probe on 169 Mysterious Bodies

Red-shirt leaders are calling relevant agencies to expedite an investigation into the mass graves at temples in Rayong Province where 169 unidentified bodies were found buried.

Pheu Thai Party MP and core red-shirt leader Nuttawut Saikuea said red-shirt leaders are taking a great interest in the discovery of 169 unidentified bodies in Rayong Province and they are closely following the situation with help from local red-shirt members.

However, he would not speculate whether the bodies are those of red-shirt demonstrators, fearing that his remark could be politicized.

Nuttawut believes authorities will be able to come up with a sound explanation and identify causes of their deaths.

He said he will follow the investigation if no progress is seen within a day or two.

Acting chairperson of the red-shirt group Thida Thavornset called for an extensive examination on all bodies as such a discovery was very unusual.

She said it is possible there could have been more than 91 red-shirt demonstrators who died during last year's political unrest.

Another core red-shirt leader, Weng Tojirakarn, said he will bring the issue to Deputy Prime Minister Police Captain Chalerm Yoobumrung and Police Chief Wichien Podphosri and ask them to find the truth.

This morning, key red-shirt leaders, namely Nuttawut Saikuea, Weng Tojirakarn, Korkaew Pikultong, Payup Panket, along with other red-shirt MPs, used their MP posts and a total of 10 million baht in cash to request bail for 29 red-shirt detainees.

They explained that the suspects should be released and allowed to stand trial to help restore national unity.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-19

[adder]

All the corpses being male is intriguing.

It was my experience watching Red Shirt rallies was they were overwhelmingly attended to by women.

.

How could anyone already know that all 169 were males, when the remains were largely bones? It would take a trained pathologist to work that out from what were likely incomplete skeletons.

Just one more in the chain of unsupported assumptions that are being spread to support a particular point of view.

How sad you are .You don't care that there is all them bodies ,just that somebody thinks they are all men . It is easy to spot a mans skelton from a womans in that the hips of woman are wider .

Now where do you get the More than likely imcomplete ? Are you trying to now say that they was butchered before being buried ? Have you seen the bodies ? Maybe you was there when the Bodies was butchered or is it just a figment of your imagination You make unsupported ASSUNPTIONS sort of hypicritical don't you think.

[bubba]

All the corpses being male is intriguing.

It was my experience watching Red Shirt rallies was they were overwhelmingly attended to by women.

.

How could anyone already know that all 169 were males, when the remains were largely bones? It would take a trained pathologist to work that out from what were likely incomplete skeletons.

Just one more in the chain of unsupported assumptions that are being spread to support a particular point of view.

Just going by the news reports within the thread, albeit for what they are worth, that is what was reported.

Until they are identified, I have no particular point of view on the issue.

.

Sorry, Buchholz, I didn't mean to infer that it was you who was spreading unfounded assumptions or outright falsities to support a point a view. Indeed the media are reporting that all 169 sets of remains are male. They were reporting that within hours of the supposed discovery. Of course nobody could have gone through all those remains in a couple of hours and positively concluded that they were all male. That is preposterous. But doesn't it make us ask why that "factoid" was pushed out to the public?

[misterkeeperofthereef]

How do they know they were Red Shirts ? Were they all wearing the official issue red shirts or maybe they were the illegal counterfeit red shirts . Hard to say in amazing Thailand !

What's fishy? Bangkok Pundit quoted the Nation when he wrote; Pol Lt-General Santhan Chayanont, commander of the police bureau's Law and Case Office, led a team yesterday to inspect Wat Klong Takwa and Wat Huai Yang of the eastern seaboard's Klaeng district. The police discovered 72 bodies at the first temple and another 97 at the second.

There are bodies. Now its just a question of identifying them and it will take weeks if not months.

Bullet wounds will be a dead (no pun intended) giveaway.

[Thai at Heart]

Why ar you so bias ? dear me

Against Porntip?

Go and do some reading. Better still, I will give you a GT 200 and drop you off in Yala, which on her expert scientific opinion is still quite accurate in finding explosives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornthip_Rojanasunand

In the early months of the Democrat-led government of Abhisit Vejjajiva, western news agencies broke the news that up to 1,000 Rohingya Muslim refugees from Myanmar had been captured by the Thai Navy, beaten, then towed out to sea without engines or navigational aids and with little food and water. The scandal and subsequent government cover-up sparked global criticism of the Thai military and Abhisit. The Thai military asked Pornthip to investigate some refugee boats that had landed on Thailand's Andaman coast. Pornthip found "substances and chemicals found that can be used in explosives" in one of the boats, leading the military to link the refugees to Islamic insurgency in the South of Thailand.[12] She did not reveal what devices or techniques she had used to detect the substances.

When news of the fraudulent nature of the GT200 devices became public in 2010, Pornthip defended the use of the devices, even if they were proven ineffective.

And then the piece de resistance

In April 2010, she was appointed to the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation or CRES (previously known as the Center for the Administration of Public Order), a military organization charged with suppressing protests by the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship.[16]

Hardly a very good starting point for an independent inquiry, should anyone want one. I wouldn't want her to provide evidence if I was suing for stubbing my toe on something let alone a mass grave of people, possibly, and I state possibly attached to the crackdown last year.

[whybother]

Red-shirt Leaders Demand Speedy Probe on 169 Mysterious Bodies

So, if the investigations were to lead to the conclusion that the bodies are from some other disaster or just backed up unidentified bodies from a morgue somewhere, imagine the difference between the reaction to the conclusion under the current government, and the reaction to the conclusion if it was under the previous government.

[webfact]

Top Democrats React to Mysterious Corpses Case

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has called for a transparent probe into the case of 169 bodies found in Rayong Province.

Meanwhile, former deputy prime minister in charge of national security Suthep Thaugsuban insisted the bodies had been legitimately buried there by a charity foundation.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said various groups should not speculate on the causes the deaths and suggested that a thorough investigation be conducted to clear all doubts.

Abhisit added he did not know if the issue was intended to deviate media attention from ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Meanwhile, key Democrat member Suthep Thaugsuban insisted he was not informed of any red-shirt member missing during the 2010 Ratchaprasong upheaval.

He went on to say that initial reports indicated that all the 169 corpses in Rayong are unclaimed bodies which were buried by a charity foundation based in Chomphon Province.

Suthep added that military personnel were not allowed to take away any of the bodies as the duty is taken care of by medical or rescue officials.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she has not received any new information about the case from deputy police chief Police General Preowpan Damapong, who is overseeing the matter.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-19

[ballpoint]

An abbot said he had never seen the condition of the bodies which reportedly were all men, but some witnesses said that they were bones wrapped in white cloth and put inside the coffins.

So, are they three holes in the ground with a lot of fresh (in April 2010) bodies thrown in, or are they three holes in to which coffins containing the remains of long dead bodies have been buried? This will already be known to those who have dug them up, but has not been disclosed yet. Why not? It makes a huge difference to how this story should be interpreted.

[ballpoint]

Deputy national police chief General Prew Damapong denied Friday that he ordered the checks on 169 unidentified bodies on suspicion of linkage to the missing red shirts, in three mass graves in Rayong. "I have no involvement in the matter," he said.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she has not received any new information about the case from deputy police chief Police General Preowpan Damapong, who is overseeing the matter.

They can't get their lies straight again. What a joke.

[chelsea]

How is it possible to know the number of bodies found in the graves when none of the bodies have been exhumed as yet ??. Did somebody count the bodies being berried in the two sites on the way in !!!! and if so, why was nothing said then ???

[Siripon]

Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts.

[hammered]

Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts.

Maybe not. If they are reds, it might result in an instant coup

[hammered]

How is it possible to know the number of bodies found in the graves when none of the bodies have been exhumed as yet ??. Did somebody count the bodies being berried in the two sites on the way in !!!! and if so, why was nothing said then ???

We are relying on media stories and the media always sensationalize deaths. Facts may be a little different from what we are hearing and that is maybe why somethings seem contradictory. Hopefully there will be an officialpolice statement soon and the media will get their people down to Rayong as well

[hammered]

Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts.

Maybe not. If they are reds, it might result in an instant coup

And if they aren't, it results in what? Nothing, that's what. Lying shit throwers.

If they arent, the authorites should have some explanation

Edited to add: it is quite worrying with it being a mass grave whether reds or not. Im sure if there is an explanation it should be forthcoming quite quickly

Edited August 19, 2011 by hammered

[sungod]

I urge those that may jump to conclusions that these are redshirt s to allow the police to investigate as it is quite normal do to a body dump.

That being said, if these people do turn out to be redshirts, the response of some people in TVF will be interesting.

Totally agree. Equally if they are proved not to be red shirts, lets hope all the pro reds stop gobbing off also.

[bkkjames]

Now that everyone's been painted into a corner on this issue - I suspect the graves will stem from the second world war, or vietnam or something else convenient.

[Thai at Heart]

Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts.

Maybe not. If they are reds, it might result in an instant coup

A coup would be very difficult domestically, let alone internationally. Someone would have to take the fall.

Oh, the stories they could tell, between Suthep and the head of the Army, they would eat each other alive if it meant saving their skin.

[Insight]

A mass grave discovered and still no international press coverage. I smell a big Thaksin.

I'd never usually ask this question as it's really not what I go looking for, but I'd be very surprised if the local media cover this one without all the usual gory details. And yet where are they? Vague details and accusations is all we have so far.

You can tell he's near.

[hawksway]

Always easy to jump to conclusions. These bodies may actually be those of road accident victims, unclaimed over the years by relatives, unwilling or unable to pay funeral expenses.

Not so long ago, many hundreds of road accident victims bodies which had laid for years on a green field site close to Bangkok, exposed to the elements had to be removed and decently disposed of to make way for a new road. It was public knowledge and the Government had previously done nothing to remove them.

[TechnikaIII]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

"I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?"

If not, there is always Norway ... with it's pussy politics.Anyone noticed how the bomber/gunman is in the media all the time? He has celebrity status now! Admits to the actions, but denies criminality. He was taken on a day tour recently to show everyone how he did what and where, and shot who when. He gets 3 meals a day and is protected. So the Thais responsible for various actions relating to the deaths and cover ups of these the 169, could do the same.

I'd rather a crowd of Thai muderers and body snatchers come to Norway, as long as they bring their wives, providing they are wives who are still alive and who can cook. Norwegian food is tasteless... almost as tasteless as my comments, but please don't delete this. It is not entirely off topic, just off tropic.

Edited August 19, 2011 by TechnikaIII

[rubl]

Why ar you so bias ? dear me

Against Porntip?

Go and do some reading. Better still, I will give you a GT 200 and drop you off in Yala, which on her expert scientific opinion is still quite accurate in finding explosives.

... wiki link of k. Pornthip and quotes removed, link repeated below ...

Hardly a very good starting point for an independent inquiry, should anyone want one. I wouldn't want her to provide evidence if I was suing for stubbing my toe on something let alone a mass grave of people, possibly, and I state possibly attached to the crackdown last year.

Dr. Pornthip may have blundered with the GT-200, but I'm still wondering why a pathologist would look at such devices? As a pathologist she's more respected.

This from the same wiki page

"In the aftermath of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, Pornthip took charge of the effort to identify victims of the tsunami in the Phang Nga region.[7] She and her team were widely praised for their hard work and dedication,[citation needed] but on January 13, 2005 Police General Nopadol Somboonsab complained that the police's identification centre in Phuket should have charge of all identification operations. Pornthip attributed the intervention to Nopadol's supposed personal vendetta against her.[8] Nopadol was ultimately successful, and the Phang Nga operation was closed down on February 3, 2005."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornthip_Rojanasunand

BTW k. Nopadol is the same as k. Noppadon, still representing k. Thaksin who as PM didn't really want international help or much attention to the disaster. Seems it reflected on his personal standing (and that of Thailand of course). Makes you wonder about his visit to Tsunami hit Japan

Edited August 19, 2011 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

"I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?"

If not, there is always Norway ... with it's pussy politics.

I said the UK, because they rather pointedly didn't renew Thaksin's visa. One of Milliband's finer moments.

[lannarebirth]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

And what will the outcry be if it is not true? Nothing, that's what.

[rubl]

I urge those that may jump to conclusions that these are redshirt s to allow the police to investigate as it is quite normal do to a body dump.

That being said, if these people do turn out to be redshirts, the response of some people in TVF will be interesting.

Totally agree. Equally if they are proved not to be red shirts, lets hope all the pro reds stop gobbing off also.

Hear, hear !

Some of the speculation in the by now 266 posts is really hilarious. The only suspects missing (I think) are the aliens, those from outer space

Edited August 19, 2011 by rubl

[rubl]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

"I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?"

If not, there is always Norway ... with it's pussy politics.

I said the UK, because they rather pointedly didn't renew Thaksin's visa. One of Milliband's finer moments.

totally off topic by now, but the UK didn't 'not renew his visa', they revoked it when k. Thaksin withdrew his application as (political) refugee

[Lancelot]

Why didn't they (Army?) have the bodies cremated? Why leave all those bodies as evidence...

[lungdavid]

I always wondered what happened to those black shirts

[Moruya]

Pure red pork pies from the extended Shinawat family. The only story here is the fate of the bodies of Thailand's unfortunates. The lack of a paper trail on these bodies is alarming. That said.being interred at a Wat is respectful.