Abhisit Slams Thai Govt On Issues About Thaksin

[Siam Simon]

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

My own experience is that there is little to learn from posters who post from deeply entrenched positions, who tell everybody else on the forum that they are right and anybody disagreeing with them is wrong or worse.

[mca]

One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

He's possibly hoping that some high ranking members of the Army still contain enough of the old Thanom Kittikachorn era DNA and consider the opinion that " The army wouldn't dare hold another coup" to be a load of old pony.

[mca]

But then, would you want a job on a committee like this if you were told to go after ANYONE who appeared to be unusually wealthy. T

It's a sure bet you wouldn't see your kids grow up. Either through your " untimely demise " or the fact that you'd never be home due to the never-ending workload.

[longway]

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

My own experience is that there is little to learn from posters who post from deeply entrenched positions, who tell everybody else on the forum that they are right and anybody disagreeing with them is wrong or worse.

Sure fair enough, but is nothing unsophisticated about despising Thaksin, he is making a bad situation worse on so many levels.

[mca]

Referring to Abhisit as the back of a person's bottom is ill considered and rude.

As is referring to another person's post as "drivel"

Maybe ian you'd be magnanimous to apologize given your obvious concern for politeness amongst posters.

[Buchholz]

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

What you say is fair enough - but tryng to portray supporting Thaksin or PT as a 'sophicticated' stance is ludicrous.

Trying to portray supporting any of the current political options as a sophisticated stance is ludicrous. As jayboy stated, we should be bouncing ideas and opinions off each other on here, and learning from each other in the process.

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

+ 1

[Siam Simon]

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

+ 1

Anyway, on the subjects of intelligent debate and learning from each other, the genie has, on cue, magically popped out of the lamp .

[Buchholz]

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

+ 1

Anyway, on the subjects of intelligent debate and learning from each other, the genie has, on cue, magically popped out of the lamp .

Confirmation of longway's points.

Guess we'll have to still wait to get to that think tank status.

Perhaps we can now have some inflammatory baiting by more "deeply knowledgable people".

Still, your latest input is better than your typical litany of posts chasing ghosts.

.

[Ricardo]

What many member do not realize is in Issan, children are sent to University now and are getting a better education

But they are not allowed to use it and advise older Thais

Thai young in the 25-35 age bracket honour there parents and do not want to rock the culture they have been brought up in so stay in the back ground

When I ask my Thai wife about politics she makes it clear she has no say in the matter her parents tell her what to do

Talking to her many educated friends I get the same answer over and over

In 5- 10 years these 35 year old girls will be 40 and more in control them selves

and in 10 years parents of younger children going to Uni

Thai land at the moment has a high percentage of uneducated people who will believe any thing they are told

But a new generation of educated children are growing up, and they are watching, seeing what is going on

Time will be coming soon when Red shirts will not have the power they have now, and must prove to educated people

When I first met her she was brain washed in to the Issan culture, how things have changed, and the advice she gives to other young thai girls when they meet nearly knocked me off my feet when I first heard it

Times are a changing

and I am looking forward to a better Thailand in the near future

That's a fair point, perhaps we farangs shouldn't just give-up shut-up and return home, as we may be having an effect on the Thais we come into contact with ? By telling them how & why we became more-successful, able to travel the world, and relatively better-off ?

The younger Thais are also, I would suggest, traveling more overseas and returning with a wider experience of alternatives, to the way it's always been done here.

Or it might be due to the new computer-age social-media, bypassing the more-susceptible-to-propaganda traditional-media, to a greater extent ?

Perhaps a new generation of younger better-educated political-leaders will also help, people like former-PM Abhisit or former-FM Korn or current PM-Yingluck, as they gradually replace those desperate-to-hang-on traditional types, in all parties. Perhaps there should be a mandatory retirement-age for politicians ? One can only hope so !

[Siam Simon]

cut///Guess we'll have to still wait to get to that think tank status.///cut

Oh yes. We're a long way off that. But those of us who want intelligent debate can live in hope.

[scorecard]

Great post. It never ceases to amaze me how farongs can forget so soon when the facts don't go along with their little dream world. Thaksin is a convicted criminal for what he did. There are other charges awaiting his return. Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

How quick they forget.

Thaksin should come home and pay his debt to society for his actions. People should ask them selves if they could have gotten away with what he did.

Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

I understand that you have bought in heavily to the anti-Thaksin position, but do you have any evidence of any nature to back this up? I'd like to see it. It would be useful to know about. Any paper trails? Any witnesses?

In the absence of these things, it seems you have decided to create apparent facts out of thin air to reinforce your views.

The response 'You are talking utter <deleted>' may be construed as that of a rabid Thaksin lover, but I'd like to offer an alternative possibility. It could be the response of a (rather uncouth) person who expects a bit more than self-serving fabrication from posters who are trying to convince others of their own narrow perspective.

You are talking utter <deleted>. Be amazed. Be very amazed.

You say you want evidence. There has been so much evidence available that you would fall over it, Utube clips have been posted here numerous times.

One very small example: The food vendors in my old soi in Bangkok bragged again and again how much money they were making from turning up for the daily payout. My Thai son asked them many questions about their 'pay' and he asked them numerous times 'where does all this money come from?". Same answer every time, no hesitation, thaksin.

[Buchholz]

cut///Guess we'll have to still wait to get to that think tank status.///cut

Oh yes. We're a long way off that. But those of us who want intelligent debate can live in hope.

Strange then that you don't contribute in that alleged endeavor; seemingly content to focus much more on posters themselves than the issues discussed.

.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Buchholz

[scorecard]

What many member do not realize is in Issan, children are sent to University now and are getting a better education

But they are not allowed to use it and advise older Thais

Thai young in the 25-35 age bracket honour there parents and do not want to rock the culture they have been brought up in so stay in the back ground

When I ask my Thai wife about politics she makes it clear she has no say in the matter her parents tell her what to do

Talking to her many educated friends I get the same answer over and over

In 5- 10 years these 35 year old girls will be 40 and more in control them selves

and in 10 years parents of younger children going to Uni

Thai land at the moment has a high percentage of uneducated people who will believe any thing they are told

But a new generation of educated children are growing up, and they are watching, seeing what is going on

Time will be coming soon when Red shirts will not have the power they have now, and must prove to educated people

When I first met her she was brain washed in to the Issan culture, how things have changed, and the advice she gives to other young thai girls when they meet nearly knocked me off my feet when I first heard it

Times are a changing

and I am looking forward to a better Thailand in the near future

That's a fair point, perhaps we farangs shouldn't just give-up shut-up and return home, as we may be having an effect on the Thais we come into contact with ? By telling them how & why we became more-successful, able to travel the world, and relatively better-off ?

The younger Thais are also, I would suggest, traveling more overseas and returning with a wider experience of alternatives, to the way it's always been done here.

Or it might be due to the new computer-age social-media, bypassing the more-susceptible-to-propaganda traditional-media, to a greater extent ?

Perhaps a new generation of younger better-educated political-leaders will also help, people like former-PM Abhisit or former-FM Korn or current PM-Yingluck, as they gradually replace those desperate-to-hang-on traditional types, in all parties. Perhaps there should be a mandatory retirement-age for politicians ? One can only hope so !

Agree. I've been saying for years, the time will come when an educated large middle class will become dominant and they will develop a stronger and stronger voice, and they will have structured logical discussion. They will be a logical structured force, and they will push the old incapable insincere, unethical leeches out of the picture.

History will repeat itself, same as many other countries.

Is it tomorrow? Unfortunately no.

I have an example of what will develop within my own family, my Thai son, now an educated adult (including some high school and other study in Singapore, and no we are not a wealthy family, just had some lucky education opportunities) can discuss politics / Thai politics very well.

He knows that the current / past quality of Thai politicians is taking Thailand backwards. He's brave enough to try to explain to his work colleagues but right now they don't understand and can't see that it could /should ever change, they are the folks that decide who to vote for by pork, egg and cooking oil prices.

He has slowly convinced his wife to see a new picture, but discussion with his wife's parents (Essan folks) is off the drawing board. They are totally convinced that thaksin is a messiah.

Why? Because the village Kumnan (has a tiny piece of unproductive farming land, 10 years ago was very poor, but now lives in a luxurious mansion with several expensive cars, never a very pleasant man, now a ruthless 'boss') has 'told' the villagers that thaksin is great. Last year the village had a 'democracy school' - nothing more than sit and listen to replays of video tapes with jatuporn and veera and their hours of hate messages, no explanation of democracy etc. And it's village where the Kumnan has 'power' over the villagers. They wouldn't dare to go against anything he says or instructs.

My son's hope, and he talks about it a lot, is that his two young children will see a very different Thailand, a real civil society. The time will come.

Edited September 15, 2011 by scorecard

[hanuman1]

Great post. It never ceases to amaze me how farongs can forget so soon when the facts don't go along with their little dream world. Thaksin is a convicted criminal for what he did. There are other charges awaiting his return. Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

How quick they forget.

Thaksin should come home and pay his debt to society for his actions. People should ask them selves if they could have gotten away with what he did.

Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

I understand that you have bought in heavily to the anti-Thaksin position, but do you have any evidence of any nature to back this up? I'd like to see it. It would be useful to know about. Any paper trails? Any witnesses?

In the absence of these things, it seems you have decided to create apparent facts out of thin air to reinforce your views.

The response 'You are talking utter <deleted>' may be construed as that of a rabid Thaksin lover, but I'd like to offer an alternative possibility. It could be the response of a (rather uncouth) person who expects a bit more than self-serving fabrication from posters who are trying to convince others of their own narrow perspective.

You are talking utter <deleted>. Be amazed. Be very amazed.

You say you want evidence. There has been so much evidence available that you would fall over it, Utube clips have been posted here numerous times.

One very small example: The food vendors in my old soi in Bangkok bragged again and again how much money they were making from turning up for the daily payout. My Thai son asked them many questions about their 'pay' and he asked them numerous times 'where does all this money come from?". Same answer every time, no hesitation, thaksin.

Thanks for that.

[JurgenG]

What many member do not realize is in Issan, children are sent to University now and are getting a better education

But they are not allowed to use it and advise older Thais

Thai young in the 25-35 age bracket honour there parents and do not want to rock the culture they have been brought up in so stay in the back ground

When I ask my Thai wife about politics she makes it clear she has no say in the matter her parents tell her what to do

Talking to her many educated friends I get the same answer over and over

In 5- 10 years these 35 year old girls will be 40 and more in control them selves

and in 10 years parents of younger children going to Uni

Thai land at the moment has a high percentage of uneducated people who will believe any thing they are told

But a new generation of educated children are growing up, and they are watching, seeing what is going on

Time will be coming soon when Red shirts will not have the power they have now, and must prove to educated people

When I first met her she was brain washed in to the Issan culture, how things have changed, and the advice she gives to other young thai girls when they meet nearly knocked me off my feet when I first heard it

Times are a changing

and I am looking forward to a better Thailand in the near future

That's a fair point, perhaps we farangs shouldn't just give-up shut-up and return home, as we may be having an effect on the Thais we come into contact with ? By telling them how & why we became more-successful, able to travel the world, and relatively better-off ?

The younger Thais are also, I would suggest, traveling more overseas and returning with a wider experience of alternatives, to the way it's always been done here.

Or it might be due to the new computer-age social-media, bypassing the more-susceptible-to-propaganda traditional-media, to a greater extent ?

Perhaps a new generation of younger better-educated political-leaders will also help, people like former-PM Abhisit or former-FM Korn or current PM-Yingluck, as they gradually replace those desperate-to-hang-on traditional types, in all parties. Perhaps there should be a mandatory retirement-age for politicians ? One can only hope so !

You're both right about the evolution of the young generations outside of Bangkok. But it doesn't make them automatically supporter of the Democrats as you seem to assume.

You're both victim of Sondhi's brainwashing who depicts the current conflict as a conflict between the educated and the uneducated. Actually a large number of young entrepreneurs and young executives support Thaksin (as do some of the biggest groups in Thailand) as they see the system as not fair and biased in favor of some well connected elite.

Before these young people used to go through Bangkok university where they would make the connection that will shape their future. Now they go to London, Sydney or the USA. When they come back, they have the knowledge and the expertise but, if they are of poor background, they are very often denied the promotion they deserve in favor of better connected colleagues. That doesn't really make them democrat suporters, does it ?

Be realistic, if PT supporters were only uneducated peasants, they wouldn't be leading the nation by now.

[jayboy]

What you say is fair enough - but tryng to portray supporting Thaksin or PT as a 'sophicticated' stance is ludicrous.

You misunderstand me.I wasn't suggesting that supporting a particular political position was "sophisticated".I was making a more general point that sophistication can be found in knowledge, context,nuance, willingness to debate as well of course reasoned argument.This obviously covers all political viewpoints.

It's not my own position but there are very compelling counter arguments against PTP and its redshirt supporters, and above all the pernicious influence of Thaksin: unfortunately I hardly ever see them well articulated on this forum.I'm pleased when I do.

[backtonormal]

He may even get to have a bunch more people shot on his carefully engineered PMship again too.

With regards, "He may even get to have a bunch more people shot", and the implied characterisation of Abhisit as being some sort of trigger-happy despot with no regard for human life, i find it sad to see a well-respected member of this forum speaking so flippantly and sarcastically about such a serious matter.

Almost as if someone has hacked into your account.

People were shot and as the leader of the country and the one in charge of the army (dont laugh) the buck stops with him. Personally I dont believe puppets order killings, puppet masters order killings. I wish the 'name and shame' committee would produce an interim report quickly so some of us can have a laugh at some tv members blustering out their excuses. Truth is Abhisit and his masters did not and were not going to produce a report with any conclusive findings, they could not even get the army to give evidence in 14 months.

On the other hand only last week the new C in C of the army publicly stated that the army officers would accept responsibility, if found guilty, it was not the fault of the foot soldiers(correct) it was the people who gave the orders. I did post a link previously but the post was deleted because I linked to the opposition (apologies). The fun has not yet begun for Mr Abhisit and I truly hope at the least he has many sleepless nights.

[Insight]

He may even get to have a bunch more people shot on his carefully engineered PMship again too.

With regards, "He may even get to have a bunch more people shot", and the implied characterisation of Abhisit as being some sort of trigger-happy despot with no regard for human life, i find it sad to see a well-respected member of this forum speaking so flippantly and sarcastically about such a serious matter.

Almost as if someone has hacked into your account.

People were shot and as the leader of the country and the one in charge of the army (dont laugh) the buck stops with him. Personally I dont believe puppets order killings, puppet masters order killings. I wish the 'name and shame' committee would produce an interim report quickly so some of us can have a laugh at some tv members blustering out their excuses. Truth is Abhisit and his masters did not and were not going to produce a report with any conclusive findings, they could not even get the army to give evidence in 14 months.

On the other hand only last week the new C in C of the army publicly stated that the army officers would accept responsibility, if found guilty, it was not the fault of the foot soldiers(correct) it was the people who gave the orders. I did post a link previously but the post was deleted because I linked to the opposition (apologies). The fun has not yet begun for Mr Abhisit and I truly hope at the least he has many sleepless nights.

Here's some much needed perspective on which "people were shot"

IMO they got off very lightly indeed. But carrying on milking it - that is part of the plan, after all.

[Buchholz]

He may even get to have a bunch more people shot on his carefully engineered PMship again too.

With regards, "He may even get to have a bunch more people shot", and the implied characterisation of Abhisit as being some sort of trigger-happy despot with no regard for human life, i find it sad to see a well-respected member of this forum speaking so flippantly and sarcastically about such a serious matter.

Almost as if someone has hacked into your account.

People were shot and as the leader of the country and the one in charge of the army (dont laugh) the buck stops with him. Personally I dont believe puppets order killings, puppet masters order killings. I wish the 'name and shame' committee would produce an interim report quickly so some of us can have a laugh at some tv members blustering out their excuses. Truth is Abhisit and his masters did not and were not going to produce a report with any conclusive findings, they could not even get the army to give evidence in 14 months.

On the other hand only last week the new C in C of the army publicly stated that the army officers would accept responsibility, if found guilty, it was not the fault of the foot soldiers(correct) it was the people who gave the orders. I did post a link previously but the post was deleted because I linked to the opposition (apologies). The fun has not yet begun for Mr Abhisit and I truly hope at the least he has many sleepless nights.

Here's some much needed perspective on which "people were shot"

IMO they got off very lightly indeed. But carrying on milking it - that is part of the plan, after all.

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

[Insight]

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

No problem. Couple this with the infamous doctored audio recording of Abhisit, along with the fake claims about the army murders beforehand (army supposedly killing soldiers for betraying orders to shoot at red shirts - all proven lies), and it becomes pretty clear the whole campagin was a massive attempt to smear Abhisit, the army, and everybody else with authority who opposed Thaksin.

[jayboy]

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

No problem. Couple this with the infamous doctored audio recording of Abhisit, along with the fake claims about the army murders beforehand (army supposedly killing soldiers for betraying orders to shoot at red shirts - all proven lies), and it becomes pretty clear the whole campagin was a massive attempt to smear Abhisit, the army, and everybody else with authority who opposed Thaksin.

You can preach to the converted as much as you like, set up straw man arguments (doctored recordings etc), chatter hysterical propaganda but the awkward fact remains Abhisit has a case to answer on the deaths of civilians.In the official enquiries the army has refused to co-operate.To date the HRW report is (shockingly in my view) the only reliable report available but there are still many unanswered questions (including I agree the behaviour of redshirts).Abhisit as much as the army has tried to wriggle out of any kind of accountability.Despite all efforts this issue like this can't be swept away.Ask Mubarak.

[Insight]

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

No problem. Couple this with the infamous doctored audio recording of Abhisit, along with the fake claims about the army murders beforehand (army supposedly killing soldiers for betraying orders to shoot at red shirts - all proven lies), and it becomes pretty clear the whole campagin was a massive attempt to smear Abhisit, the army, and everybody else with authority who opposed Thaksin.

You can preach to the converted as much as you like, set up straw man arguments (doctored recordings etc), chatter hysterical propaganda but the awkward fact remains Abhisit has a case to answer on the deaths of civilians.In the official enquiries the army has refused to co-operate.To date the HRW report is (shockingly in my view) the only reliable report available but there are still many unanswered questions (including I agree the behaviour of redshirts).Abhisit as much as the army has tried to wriggle out of any kind of accountability.Despite all efforts this issue like this can't be swept away.Ask Mubarak.

I won't patronise you with any more clips of the red shirts repeatedly antagonising the army for days on end with both improvised and real weapons - there's enough of them out there on YouTube and elsewhere, but are you attempting to say that the doctored recording, along with these actions, were not part of a greater plan...?

And as for "Abhisit as much as the army has tried to wriggle out of any kind of accountability", IFAIR Abhisit has repeatedly stated he is prepared to answer questions about the clampdown, and has already stood through a parliament session - full of childish and pathetic shouted accusations from the likes of Chalerm and Juttaporn - and walked away with his reputation unscathed.

As much as the red shirts have tried - and tried they certainly have, they cannot attribute the cowardice displayed by Thaksin to Abhisit.

/edit - as for the Mubarak analogy, you mean we might see see nellies manned by Thai cops storming into Ratchaprasong...? What protesters will they be chasing away...?

Edited September 16, 2011 by Insight

[Buchholz]

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

No problem. Couple this with the infamous doctored audio recording of Abhisit, along with the fake claims about the army murders beforehand (army supposedly killing soldiers for betraying orders to shoot at red shirts - all proven lies), and it becomes pretty clear the whole campagin was a massive attempt to smear Abhisit, the army, and everybody else with authority who opposed Thaksin.

Coupled with the lies regarding "thousands murdered" during the Red Shirt assault on Bangkok during Black Songkran 2009, it's a continual avalanche of BS.

.

[phiphidon]

Thanks for posting.

Nice audio on the Red Shirt grenade launch.

btw, rixalex... you're not alone in your astonishment.

.

No problem. Couple this with the infamous doctored audio recording of Abhisit, along with the fake claims about the army murders beforehand (army supposedly killing soldiers for betraying orders to shoot at red shirts - all proven lies), and it becomes pretty clear the whole campagin was a massive attempt to smear Abhisit, the army, and everybody else with authority who opposed Thaksin.

Coupled with the lies regarding "thousands murdered" during the Red Shirt assault on Bangkok during Black Songkran 2009, it's a continual avalanche of BS.

.

Where does this "thousands murdered" come from Buchholz? The only "accounts" I can find is hearsay involving the words "hundreds". Still B/s I know but you don't help finding the truth any easier if you up the ante each time.

[jayboy]

And as for "Abhisit as much as the army has tried to wriggle out of any kind of accountability", IFAIR Abhisit has repeatedly stated he is prepared to answer questions about the clampdown, and has already stood through a parliament session - full of childish and pathetic shouted accusations from the likes of Chalerm and Juttaporn - and walked away with his reputation unscathed.

He may have said he is prepared to be accountable but to date has shown no signs of transparency or honesty on this issue.His whole demeanor is one of defensiveness, and resentment that any questions are asked at all.There has been no proper inquiry since the army has refused to co-operate.He has also failed to show any remorse or regret for the Thais mowed down on Bangkok streets.To say "not all redshirts are bad" is not sufficient.To be fair I think he has a reasonable case to make (and I certainly don't presume guilt) but he lacks the political skills and perhaps the basic humanity to make it.

[YellowFeverCAD]

You may find that 52% was not the true figure and the persistent rumours of vote rigging in Bangkok will not go away. How could a certain, previously most accurate poll for election, get it so wrong in Bangkok and so right in every other part of the country. 7,000,000 extra ballot papers unecessarily printed will fuel this fire. The fact that PT still won has kept this theory very quiet but if there is any truth in the chatter it will be used to put another nail in the coffin of the floundering Dem party. Word in my area is that the rigging was done not to so much gain extra seats but purely to save face by still be able to say " at least the middle classes voted for us".

This rumour is on the back burner but It will not be reported in the popular press, do some research about the inaccuracy of the election exit polls in Bangkok.

I love how trolls like you always have the inside track on what is going on in the backrooms of the Thai power elite... another wannabe Thai living up their worldwide reputation... good work chimp

[fridgemagnet]

Abhisit had his chance to separate the reds from Thaksin, by bringing some red leaders into the government - he didn't take it.

Both sides want the whole cake.

[hammered]

He may even get to have a bunch more people shot on his carefully engineered PMship again too.

With regards, "He may even get to have a bunch more people shot", and the implied characterisation of Abhisit as being some sort of trigger-happy despot with no regard for human life, i find it sad to see a well-respected member of this forum speaking so flippantly and sarcastically about such a serious matter.

Almost as if someone has hacked into your account.

People were shot and as the leader of the country and the one in charge of the army (dont laugh) the buck stops with him. Personally I dont believe puppets order killings, puppet masters order killings. I wish the 'name and shame' committee would produce an interim report quickly so some of us can have a laugh at some tv members blustering out their excuses. Truth is Abhisit and his masters did not and were not going to produce a report with any conclusive findings, they could not even get the army to give evidence in 14 months.

On the other hand only last week the new C in C of the army publicly stated that the army officers would accept responsibility, if found guilty, it was not the fault of the foot soldiers(correct) it was the people who gave the orders. I did post a link previously but the post was deleted because I linked to the opposition (apologies). The fun has not yet begun for Mr Abhisit and I truly hope at the least he has many sleepless nights.

I totally agree with the buck stops with the leader of the government. Funnily enough those who disagree with this statement now were happy to cheer comments i made a few years ago using the same arguement to sat Thaksin should bear responsibility for the drug war deaths

[YellowFeverCAD]

I totally agree with the buck stops with the leader of the government. Funnily enough those who disagree with this statement now were happy to cheer comments i made a few years ago using the same arguement to sat Thaksin should bear responsibility for the drug war deaths

Of course it stops with the leader, but then if Abbisit is found guilty of something/anything can he just go for a vacation not come back and claim it's not fair as it's politically motivated? Seriously how can you guys spend so much time rehashing the same pointless crap from the same banana republic over and over again... must be retired or without families or waiting for the bars to open.. totally a waste of time.

[gemini81]

He may even get to have a bunch more people shot on his carefully engineered PMship again too.

With regards, "He may even get to have a bunch more people shot", and the implied characterisation of Abhisit as being some sort of trigger-happy despot with no regard for human life, i find it sad to see a well-respected member of this forum speaking so flippantly and sarcastically about such a serious matter.

Almost as if someone has hacked into your account.

People were shot and as the leader of the country and the one in charge of the army (dont laugh) the buck stops with him. Personally I dont believe puppets order killings, puppet masters order killings. I wish the 'name and shame' committee would produce an interim report quickly so some of us can have a laugh at some tv members blustering out their excuses. Truth is Abhisit and his masters did not and were not going to produce a report with any conclusive findings, they could not even get the army to give evidence in 14 months.

On the other hand only last week the new C in C of the army publicly stated that the army officers would accept responsibility, if found guilty, it was not the fault of the foot soldiers(correct) it was the people who gave the orders. I did post a link previously but the post was deleted because I linked to the opposition (apologies). The fun has not yet begun for Mr Abhisit and I truly hope at the least he has many sleepless nights.

Thank you for the latest update on current feelings in the red camp.

You are here on vacation and arrived after the mob bedded down here last year, armed with an array of guns and rocket launchers?